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[Character] Shiba "Kurosaki" Isshin


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#41 Mister Cold

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:36 AM

@Luffy

Urahara, Nuff said.
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#42 Milareppa

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:33 AM

choujiro if people read the data book made a judgement call and let ichigo beat him because he felt it was the better good....  he let the viazards in FKT.  Now riddle me this riddle me that, with such a high level barrier how did isshin get in?

 

 

Urahara? Remember that the battleground plans were drawn up by Yamamoto, Urahara and Mayuri. The reason the Visoreds specifically had trouble is because they weren't an expected component (at least, Yamamoto hadn't expected them) so they were locked out of the loop until Choujirou met them and made his own decision.

 

Urahara was a known component, however. Whether he had access to the barrier, was already inside the barrier biding his time, or something else, we don't know, but we at least know he was involved in the battlefield set-up.


Edited by Milareppa, 21 January 2013 - 10:35 AM.


#43 HSHINJI

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:43 PM

Urahara? Remember that the battleground plans were drawn up by Yamamoto, Urahara and Mayuri. The reason the Visoreds specifically had trouble is because they weren't an expected component (at least, Yamamoto hadn't expected them) so they were locked out of the loop until Choujirou met them and made his own decision.

 

Urahara was a known component, however. Whether he had access to the barrier, was already inside the barrier biding his time, or something else, we don't know, but we at least know he was involved in the battlefield set-up.

He made the barrier, so it is logical for him to get in through it, Choujiro's job was to maintain it. Mayuri's contribution was in the dummy KT in SS. If that barrier was so easy to make then any so called G13 kido genius would have constructed it. Yamamoto was in effectively a client of Urahara, as he told him what he needed while the manufacturer constructed it and it was such a ridiculous barrier than someone as skilled as Hacchi couldn't get in without the "key".

 

I do wonder why Isshin who was hidden entered the barrier without Choujiro informing Yama? I'll make no conclusions on this specific issue since there are too many unknown variables but imo he gained access the same way Urahara and Yoruichi did, they were privy to information on the barrier made by the maker.


Edited by HSHINJI, 21 January 2013 - 05:53 PM.


#44 Pirate_King_Luffy

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:13 AM

true...



#45 Pirate_King_Luffy

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:15 PM

it does not change the fact of why he let ichigo beat him back in the SS.  you saw the look on his face.. then he went down... I noticed it when I first read the chapter and watched the anime that something was off. he was stronger than the other two vc's that got ko'd.



#46 Heimdall

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:25 AM

Well we know that the Vizards don't know him. So that leaves Yamamoto, Unohana, Shunsui, and Ukitake. He or Urahara said that he lost his powers 21/22 years ago, but that doesn't tell us how long he's been in the Mortal World. Or where he was before that. Kubo also says that he hasn't shown himself to the Captains because it would cause a bit of headache. So does that mean, that the Captains (one of the 4) would recognize him or that one of the RG may come looking for him. Also, none of the RG has even made a comment about Ichigo and his relationship with Isshin. They have made a comment about Urahara however.

 

Another thing. If Isshin was RG, does that mean he wasn't at full strength when he fought Aizen. The current RG is stronger than all of the G13 (for now I'm including Yamamoto) put together. So, let's say that 1 RG = 2 and three fifths of a G13 unit. Now there's no telling just how strong condom Aizen really was, but he felled Isshin pretty easily. Maybe Isshin was still regaining his strength even at that time. :shrug:

 

If he's not RG, then maybe he's the missing captain of the 10th unit....?

 

Actually, Isshin handily stomped Aizen to his "limit as a shinigami" with ease.  It was the power given to Aizen by the hogyouko that caused a problem.  Ichigo had to blow his power and give it up just to weaken Aizen enough for him to be sealed at that point.  And Ichigo with final GT was easily one of the strongest beings in SS's history.  Even now Aizen lives. If they could execute him then they would have already, he is effectively immortal.  Isshin also only recently exited the fake body that Kisuke made for him and was warned that if his reiatsu had shriveled not to blame Kisuke. Someone mentioned it being known that Isshin lost his power to FGT... I don't remember that ever being stated in the manga.  We know that he knew the technique and that Engetsu didn't want him to learn it, but it never said that he used it.  Though of course it is a distinct possibility, perhaps he even used it in the last fight against the quincies.  

 

I don't think Isshin was a royal guard.  I do think that he was well known in SS though.  I would even dare say that Kurosaki may have been a noble house, or related to one (SHIBA... I mean come on, Ichigo and Kaien were practically identical cousins like patty duke style).  I think that Isshin was a captain.  There is even the haori (I think they are called, I don't remember) that looked quite like that of a captain that he had tied around one shoulder when he fought the arrancar fisher king.  I seem to remember a lot of people reacting in a shocked way to the name "Kurosaki" in the soul society arc as well.  He also seems to have a past with Ishida's pops Ryuuken as well... and the one quincy in hueco mundo even made a comment about how Ishida's arrows shouldn't be weaker than his, which suggests his family might be some sort of royalty.  I have a theory that Ichigo's mother was Ryuuken's sister which explains the familiar but not quite friendly relationship we've seen between Isshin and Ryuuken as well as perhaps having something to do with why juha bach called Ichigo his son... perhaps grandson or other member of his family.


Edited by Heimdall, 14 February 2013 - 02:44 AM.


#47 Mister Cold

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:40 AM

Actually, Isshin handily stomped Aizen to his "limit as a shinigami" with ease. It was the power given to Aizen by the hogyouko that caused a problem. Ichigo had to blow his power and give it up just to weaken Aizen enough for him to be sealed at that point. And Ichigo with final GT was easily one of the strongest beings in SS's history. Even now Aizen lives. If they could execute him then they would have already, he is effectively immortal. Isshin also only recently exited the fake body that Kisuke made for him and was warned that if his reiatsu had shriveled not to blame Kisuke. Someone mentioned it being known that Isshin lost his power to FGT... I don't remember that ever being stated in the manga. We know that he knew the technique and that Engetsu didn't want him to learn it, but it never said that he used it. Though of course it is a distinct possibility, perhaps he even used it in the last fight against the quincies.

I don't think Isshin was a royal guard. I do think that he was well known in SS though. I would even dare say that Kurosaki may have been a noble house, or related to one (SHIBA... I mean come on, Ichigo and Kaien were practically identical cousins like patty duke style). I think that Isshin was a captain. There is even the haori (I think they are called, I don't remember) that looked quite like that of a captain that he had tied around one shoulder when he fought the arrancar fisher king. I seem to remember a lot of people reacting in a shocked way to the name "Kurosaki" in the soul society arc as well. He also seems to have a past with Ishida's pops Ryuuken as well... and the one quincy in hueco mundo even made a comment about how Ishida's arrows shouldn't be weaker than his, which suggests his family might be some sort of royalty. I have a theory that Ichigo's mother was Ryuuken's sister which explains the familiar but not quite friendly relationship we've seen between Isshin and Ryuuken as well as perhaps having something to do with why juha bach called Ichigo his son... perhaps grandson or other member of his family.


I have seen no one that looked stunned at the Kurosaki name.
Then again, if you go in hiding, would you keep your name?
So, perhaps Isshin IS from the Shiba clan and he is the reason the clan has fallen. (marrying the enemy, getting shunned from SS, I can see it happen)

#48 Krizalid

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:49 AM

So this is probably why Kuukaku said that Isshin would be sad about Ichigo going to Royal Realm. She probably knew that something bad would happen to Ichigo and Ichigo would have to question his father about what he really is, making him effectively sad.



#49 dog

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 02:00 PM

I have seen no one that looked stunned at the Kurosaki name.
Then again, if you go in hiding, would you keep your name?
So, perhaps Isshin IS from the Shiba clan and he is the reason the clan has fallen. (marrying the enemy, getting shunned from SS, I can see it happen)

but the shiba clan fell after Kaien died so isshin can't be the reason



#50 Krizalid

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:52 AM

but the shiba clan fell after Kaien died so isshin can't be the reason

 

No.



#51 Trowa Barton

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:01 PM

Care to explain your opinion beyond one word?

 

Although, I agree Kaien's death couldn't be the only reason for the Shiba clans fall. Otherwise the Shihoin clan could/should have fallen by now.



#52 Milareppa

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:21 PM

but the shiba clan fell after Kaien died so isshin can't be the reason

The Shiba clan fell before Kaien died. The Shiba clan had fallen before Kaien even became a shinigami in the first place. That's why Ganju couldn't understand why Kaien wanted to become a shinigami instead of hating them. In TBTP when Kaien hadn't even become a vice-captain yet, the great noble clans were listed as being four, not five, indicating the Shiba clan had fallen before TBTP ever started.
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#53 AndrewR5D4

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:17 AM

Okay, so Isshin was a captain... Wonder which Division was his, and why no one else recognizes him.



#54 Nagaraja

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:23 AM

Okay, so Isshin was a captain... Wonder which Division was his, and why no one else recognizes him.

Because no one from his time has seen him yet.


"Reason exists for those who cannot go on living without clinging to it. Now let's go... to the edge of reason." Aizen

 

"It's been so long that I forgot the pain of not having a name. Everyone had a name that friends use to call them, but I didn't. That pain." Zaraki Kenpachi


#55 Phenomiracle

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:32 AM

Theories regarding Kurosaki being Masaki's last name are confirmed. Goody.
 
Wonder why Aizen called Isshin "Kurosaki" then. 

 

I would have expected Aizen to go more along the lines of this:

 

http://tvtropes.org/...nowYourTrueName


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#56 AndrewR5D4

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:37 AM

Because no one from his time has seen him yet.

 

Yamamoto's been around forever, so have Unohana and the other two. Wouldn't they at least have known him?



#57 Phenomiracle

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:38 AM

Yamamoto's been around forever, so have Unohana and the other two. Wouldn't they at least have known him?

 

No occasion has been brought up in which they were forced to contemplate his current existence directly. 
 


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