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[Theory] The Inherited Will, "One Piece"


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#41 Lone_ant

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:11 PM

This could really use Lillienette's old theory in the old forum. If you fuse it together, it fills each other's holes.

 

Edit: One Piece = Won Peace. Peace that was hard fought for?


Edited by Lone_ant, 06 March 2013 - 10:11 PM.


#42 Kukriblades

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:30 PM

This could really use Lillienette's old theory in the old forum. If you fuse it together, it fills each other's holes.

interesting, would you mind sharing Lilienette's points that fill the holes?



#43 Qbix

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:18 AM

the idea of DF being effected by the Grandline and its crazy magnetic field is possible.  Remember when Chopper discusses the Rumble Balls?  He says that after some years of study he was able to create a pill (Rumble) that effects the "wavelengths" of the DF.  The word wavelength is key.... if its something like energy (DF wavelengths) than its possible.  

 

The basic wavelength is described as a wave of light, or to be more precised a "photon".  This is then attributed energy based on the length of the wavelength.  

 

  • short equals high energy (gamma rays and ultra violet)

  • long wavelengths equal low energy (Radio waves and Microwaves)

 

By inventing and developing the Rumble Ball Chopper has been able to artificially alter the wavelengths of his DF.  

 

 

This would also explain the properties of the ocean and its effect on DF users.  It was stated in the manga that the DF are rejected by the sea and are rendered powerless.  From there it was explained that Sea-stone has properties similar to the sea.... in the manga it was stated that the Sea-stone (Kairoseki) emits a "similar energy" like the sea. 

 

Similar Energy =  Wavelength

 

If its possible to recognize the wavelength that is emit by the sea (possibly Vegapunk creating a method of making Sea-stones, since it was mentioned that it was developed by GL scientists iirc) then one could nullify the properties of the DF at will aka Kairouseki.

 

Conversely, if there is a way to eliminate the wavelength to nullify the properties of the DFs then the opposite (expanding the properties) is also possible. This is where Chopper is shown to be a true genius, he inadvertently created a similar concept of DF wavelength manipulation when he invented the Rumble Ball.

 

In short, if the DFs properties are based on wavelengths.... then the Grandline and its magnetic properties (thus by extension and negatively related, the sea as well) are irrevocably linked to the properties of the DFs.

 

Well which would mean that, if we follow the initial theory this thread is about, that all Devil Fruit powers would vanish once the specific arrangement of currents, Grand Line, Calm Belt and such would be shattered? Hm... well, why not. :)


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#44 Clyton

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:08 AM

This is an incredible theory! I believe One Piece can truly be one of the best well-made Shounen pieces if Oda does it like this or even better/more appealing.



#45 Qbix

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:12 AM

This is an incredible theory! I believe One Piece can truly be one of the best well-made Shounen pieces if Oda does it like this or even better/more appealing.

 

I... was under the impression it already is...  :whistle:


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#46 Lone_ant

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:09 AM

Basically, your theory was lacking in a few things:

 

1. Origin and true nature of Devil Fruits ~ any Grand Unified Theory of One Piece must address this matter.

2. Origin of the "political unrest" ~ why are the 20 kings so against unifying the planet?

3. Origin of the Grand Line Abnormality ~ why would the AK develop in a place so dangerous (assuming that Raftel is their capital)

4. Mechanism for the "Promise Fulfillment" ~ This isn't really necessary, it could just remain as a mystic force or law. 

5. The 3rd Great Weapon ~ Wasn't addressed in the theory.

 

Also, it does not address why the AK did not destroy Reverse mountain first (seeing as that was much more accesible to them, and they could have done this if only to test if they can actually do it)

 

Here's the theory:

http://narutobase.ne...ad.php?t=132878

 

Original theory was in the old forum. Underlined text was links to actual manga pages, but I think you can get it from the context clues which pages he's talking about.

 

Main points:

1) Ancient Kingdom (AK) and World Government Nobles come from Space. AK arived on the Blue Planet first. Shandorians are befriended while they're on the Moon.

2) The 20 Kings are actually Space Pirates (hence their antagonism with AK). They first pillage the Shandorians and force them to relocate. They plunder the Moon until it's a barren wasteland, then they set their sights on the Blue Planet.

3) Will of D. D means Descendants, not the strict biological term but a broader one meaning "souls" that reincarnate to follow or fulfill that will (made through genetics)

4) DFs are composed of AK "souls", created as a weapon against the 20 kings.They affect eaters by genetically modifying them.

5) Poseidon is an EMP weapon that caused Grand Line abnormality, downfall of AK civilization and technology by tainting and changing it (thereby making Kairoseki). Created DFs by linking recently departed AK [ note: this is contradictory to the earlier so I discount that last point from the theory]

 

 

Now, the manga has progressed and some of the things here can be refuted (such as the parts about Poseidon as an EMP weapon that created GL and Kairoseki) but it does bring up some good points. Particularly, it addresses all the above points from 1 - 5. 

 

However, as I said, some points are obsolete. I think particularly, the origin of the Grand Line abnormality is wrong. It IS a created artificial state of affairs  but it's more nefarious than that. Ever wonder just how such an advanced Kingdom, able to create Devil Fruit (going with Liliete's theory), have super weapons get defeated by the 20 Kings (which were clearly inferior).

 

What follows are my own conjectures: 

 

You see, they had a plan. 

 

All Blue was a legendary ocean where all the world's oceans met and all the fish were located. However, despite the efforts of many, it has never been found. But it should have existed at some point, since it is a legend (not myth or mere rumour) and Red Leg believed in it enough to pursue it. As you mention, there are only two feasible locations for it, Mariejoa and Reverse Mountain.  However, All Blue is only ever mentioned as a single entity (not two oceans). I propose that the Gorosei  somehow put land on the location of the All Blue and sealed the Red Line in time. Then they built Mariejoa, their capital on top of it to protect it, as well as to serve a convenient and safe center of operations, being the furthest point from Reverse Mountain and Raftel (the capital of the AK). This seal created abnormal conditions planet wide, particularly, isolated the Grand Line in the form of the calm belt (since it pretty much stopped the equatorial prevailing winds).

 

This was their declaration of war.

 

From this point onwards, war raged in the Grand Line, using powerful weapons and with catastrophic battles, resulting in the odd weather conditions and magnetic conditions on the island. With the AK scattered by the weather and cut off from the rest of the planet (and their empire) by the calm belt, the 20 kings were able to push through logistical advantage.

 

What of the 3rd Weapon? Uranos is a sky god, the father of Zeus. Again, taking from Lilliete's theory, we can deduce who has or had possession of this weapon. The AK presumably built Pluto and DFs (and presuming genetic manipulation technology, also created Poseidon). Even with their logistical advantage, how did the 20 Kings manage to put up a fight? Simply put, they had a super weapon on their side too: Namely Uranos - which is a space ship. As space pirates, it is only natural that they would have a powerful space ship full of weapons with which to plunder the enemy with after all. The cataclysmic battles between the super weapons created the weather conditions in the Grand Line. Do they still have this weapon? Presumably not, or they would be showcasing it at every opportunity they have. So where is it? Does the Tequila Wolf bridge have anything to do with this?

 

Yet if that is true, why does the Red Line itself (particularly the area around Mariejoa and Fishman island) have these abnormal weather conditions? This is because the 20 Kings were actually losing, and indeed AK was able to put the fight to their doorstep. This is also the reason why the WG also lost much during the war. Yet at the 11th hour, there proved a tragedy. There was a traitor amongst the AK and it was such that the AK lost the battle and would likely lose the war. Knowing what will come, the remaining AKs crafted the poneglyphs to fling a light into the future, destroying what technology they have in their hands so as not to fall to the enemy. This traitor and his will is what is incarnate in Blackbeard today (having a "Will of D" himself, yet not really in line with the True Will). 

 

So, what IS Kariouseki?  It is said that one of the elements in it was pyrobloin which make the sky islands float, meaning it is not a single substance but an alloy. An alloy manufactured by the World Government originally created to counter DFs and the Sea Kings that the AK fielded using Poseidon. Naturally it is hard to manufacture and the materials that compose it are rare, but it is the reason why the only group that we see utiilze it in large quantities are the WG backed Marines.

 

Fast forward to the present, and this is where your theory comes in. One Piece Is the plan to return the planet to One Piece by destroying Mariejoa (and Fishman island as collateral damage), uniting all the oceans once again and ressurecting All Blue. It also means WON Peace, i.e. the peace hard won against the WG Tyrants, One PEACE, i.e. the world united under that peace. And Won Piece.. which is.. er.. dunno. O_O 

 

There you have it.

 

P.S. That thing with the Indonesian empire was amazing! Wow. Wonder how far we can stretch that metaphor, and how far Oda did. It kinda ties with what I have written and read so far.. no major contradictions amazingly O_O

 

P.P.S. Agree that Raftel can only be reached using the Poneglyphs. Flying dfs can't reach it, so there must be some secret way. I'm thinking some kind of Sky Island with a barrier of some sort. (OK Wild Guess, what if Uranos IS Raftel O_O, that contradicts the theory but.. yeah, I just needed to write that idea.) 


Edited by Lone_ant, 07 March 2013 - 03:23 PM.

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#47 Funktastic

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:57 AM

Basically, your theory was lacking in a few things:

 

1. Origin and true nature of Devil Fruits ~ any Grand Unified Theory of One Piece must address this matter.

2. Origin of the "political unrest" ~ why are the 20 kings so against unifying the planet?

3. Origin of the Grand Line Abnormality ~ why would the AK develop in a place so dangerous (assuming that Raftel is their capital)

4. Mechanism for the "Promise Fulfillment" ~ This isn't really necessary, it could just remain as a mystic force or law. 

5. The 3rd Great Weapon ~ Wasn't addressed in the theory.

 

I wouldn't say the theory is lacking those. The one that has the most relevance to the theory is point nr2. The others are kind of like "bonuses" that don't have an impact on the theory itself (from my point of view), except maybe for point 5. 

 

Personally, I wasn't the biggest fan of Lillienettes theory. Don't get me wrong, it was well put together and logical. But for me it was more of a "one out of many" scenario. Not too tied into the SHs dreams or facts, more based on speculation. Good speculations, but when you start to come to conclusions on somewhat iffy speculations I begin to raise my eyebrow. 

 

But who am I to talk. I've never really thought about for myself how it will end besides Luffy becoming the PK. Which is why it's interesting to read these kinds of theories ;)



#48 Lone_ant

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:06 AM

Kukri's theory does tie with the SH's dreams. So although Liliete's theory had deficiencies, by fusing them together and adding some things, I think I've made some thing that works. 

 

The Will of D thing still  needs some work though, also the matter about Sea Kings staying in the Calm Belt to breed. But otherwise, I think it would give a fairly interesting read at least :P 


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#49 eemo23

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:55 PM

Well which would mean that, if we follow the initial theory this thread is about, that all Devil Fruit powers would vanish once the specific arrangement of currents, Grand Line, Calm Belt and such would be shattered? Hm... well, why not. :)

 

Like I said on the previous page, this would destroy some of the characters.


When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No. When he suffers a disease? No. When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten! - Dr.Hiluluk

 

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#50 Qbix

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:21 PM

Like I said on the previous page, this would destroy some of the characters.

 

Why is this? What do you mean by destroy? Are you talking about some characters being what they are mostly based on their DFs? Of course, like Luffy. That's what would make the series ending so appealing. Everything that made ppl special would vanish. No more DFs. Of course ppl would keep their haki and personal strength. It would actually be a nice footing for a future series, where the people that once ruled the oceans and had DF powers would be equal to gods and after the "big bang" that partially destroyed the Red Line, the people with high physical strengtht and "strong will" (haki) would be the ones to rule. To be honest, once the DFs are gone, the swordsmen will be the strongest, period.

 

I'd sooooooooo love to read a manga set in the time several hundred years after One Piece ended, in a world of swords and oceans, where rumours about ancient "magic" powers inspire young rascals to a journey around the world. lol.


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#51 Lone_ant

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:22 PM

No it doesn't. You're referring to the Wavelength DF theory and that more specifically, the DF would lose their powers once all this is done and affect current users?

 

Well. This modified fusion theory doesn't. If you read Liliete's theory,although the source of DF's power is as stated, what it does is genetically modify those that eat it. Meaning that although DFs may lose their power once the series ends (having the souls freed somehow), because the users were already genetically modified, they retain their powers and abilities. Hence Chopper would still retain his human characteristics and Brook would still remain alive. (Provided they all survive until the end of course :) )


Edited by Lone_ant, 07 March 2013 - 03:23 PM.


#52 eemo23

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:52 PM

Why is this? What do you mean by destroy? Are you talking about some characters being what they are mostly based on their DFs? Of course, like Luffy. That's what would make the series ending so appealing. Everything that made ppl special would vanish. No more DFs. Of course ppl would keep their haki and personal strength. It would actually be a nice footing for a future series, where the people that once ruled the oceans and had DF powers would be equal to gods and after the "big bang" that partially destroyed the Red Line, the people with high physical strengtht and "strong will" (haki) would be the ones to rule. To be honest, once the DFs are gone, the swordsmen will be the strongest, period.

 

I'd sooooooooo love to read a manga set in the time several hundred years after One Piece ended, in a world of swords and oceans, where rumours about ancient "magic" powers inspire young rascals to a journey around the world. lol.

 

Well, I don't think you read the previous page, but anyway, I was referring to Chopper and Brooke. These guys would "die". 

 

But according to Lone Ant and another theory he was referring to, they will still retain their characteristics and Brooke will still be alive.

 

That means that Chopper would have access to his other points (I think) and he and Brooke would be able to swim. Awesome!

 

Lol and also who says that the swordsmen will be the strongest? I think the swordsman will be (Zoro) but Sanji would be close to, if not equal, in power with Zoro. There's Mihawk, but some predict that he might die. 

 

And Garp kicks butt without a sword. Then there's Coby who's bound to be super strong and he doesn't use a weapon (at least to our knowledge)


Edited by eemo23, 08 March 2013 - 10:54 PM.

When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No. When he suffers a disease? No. When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten! - Dr.Hiluluk

 

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#53 Kukriblades

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:33 AM

@lone-ant

Thanks 4 the reply :D

 

oh, that one... I think I had encountered the theory last year but for some reason never managed to finish the whole thing.

 

it's a well made theory though I don't quite agree with him about space/moon being the origin of WG, particularly because we've seen little to no clue, except the name of tenryuubito ('celestial' dragon) and the space-suit-like costumes they wear. However I don't hate the idea, it actually could be interesting to see them as a united entity once for that means there's an act of betrayal.

 

About the "D"... what if it wasn't an initial, but a symbol ? a guy at mangashare posted this theory about "D" being the symbol of half-moon phase. Think you should check it out. --> http://www.mangashar...-Piece...solved

 

no comment on the DF part. While I do believe DF's origin was an inseparable element of the void century or even the One Piece itself, it didn't really gain my interest (well, not yet)

 

 

now on to your theory, honestly it sounds more interesting to me. :P

 

Actually, the idea of artificial Red line, GL, and their anomalies has always been a considerable scenario in my mind. I'm aware that the thought of destroying red line for the sake of sailing freedom was kind of 'meh'. so the idea of artficial RL could be a good alternative to it.

 

however, I never had the nerve to dig the idea further for it sounds too impossible. I mean, destroying Red Line is one thing, but creating it? That's just beyond unimaginable (one piece logic wise) O_o it also raised another question : why would WG built it in the first place??

 

But, assuming your theory was true.

V

V

I propose that the Gorosei somehow put land on the location of the All Blue and sealed the Red Line in time

^
The WG must have hidden something extremely valuable there. No, it's not all blue nor the united ocean, it's beyond that. And it could be the real One piece that people seek. Now wouldn't that possibility make the whole theory even more intriguing??

 

 

one more thing

Namely Uranos - which is a space ship. As space pirates, it is only natural that they would have a powerful space ship full of weapons with which to plunder the enemy with after all. The cataclysmic battles between the super weapons created the weather conditions in the Grand Line

 

i've shared my thought on Uranus, and it may connect to yours

V

V

 

 

a thought,

the third weapon, Uranus, was named after the god of sky (the father of sky to be precise), so it might have the power to take complete control of weather. by that means, Uranus will help neutralizing back the chaotic storm caused by the red line bombing, as well as eliminating grand line's abnormality to the core.

If Uranus power was capable of causing catastrophic weather as you said, it's surely able to stop it as well. 

 

 

P.S. That thing with the Indonesian empire was amazing! Wow. Wonder how far we can stretch that metaphor, and how far Oda did. It kinda ties with what I have written and read so far.. no major contradictions amazingly O_O

Thanks :D.

 

An interesting fact regarding the 3rd point (the battle of Pandawa and Kurawa) :

 

According to the tales, Pandawa was consist of 5 brothers : Puntadewa, Sadewa, Bima, Arjuna, and Nakula. Together they were called The Five Pandawa Brothers (or "Pendowo Limo" as locals say it).

 

While Kurawa was consist of 100 brothers. 

 

Pandawa vs Kurawa

5 vs 100

 

AK vs WG

1 vs 20 kingdoms

 

5/100 = 1/20


Edited by Kukriblades, 09 March 2013 - 11:40 AM.





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