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[Character] Maito Gai


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#21 Peleihno

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:56 PM

The only living ninja with taijutsu on Gai's level would be Killer Bee(seven swords, bijuu cloak etc) and the Raikage.

Not Bee and his swordsmanship has nothing to do with taijutsu, that's kenjutsu.


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#22 Ajh77

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:09 PM

Not Bee and his swordsmanship has nothing to do with taijutsu, that's kenjutsu.

I had always lumped physical techniques of any sort into Taijutsu but after looking over it, it is specifically hand to hand combat.  In that case, you're right. Bee cannot even be regarded as a Taijutsu user and I feel Raikage has not shown nearly enough skill to be on Gai's level.  Raikage's power alone shouldn't equalize Gai's skill and power.

 

Besides, Gai is pure Taijutsu.  Raikage is Taijutsu with a subset of Ninjutsu (sort of).


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#23 The Witcher

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:10 AM

You guys are way underestimating Bee. His lariat duel victory against Ei should be enough evidence of his unarmed taijutsu prowess. And with his Bijuu cloaks he's at least on Gai's level, if not above. 

 

BTW kenjutsu is also a form of melee combat. If Tenten under Gai is considered a taijutsu specialist so is Bee.



#24 Dead Presidents

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:10 AM

I had always lumped physical techniques of any sort into Taijutsu but after looking over it, it is specifically hand to hand combat.  In that case, you're right. Bee cannot even be regarded as a Taijutsu user and I feel Raikage has not shown nearly enough skill to be on Gai's level.  Raikage's power alone shouldn't equalize Gai's skill and power.

 

Besides, Gai is pure Taijutsu.  Raikage is Taijutsu with a subset of Ninjutsu (sort of).

 

I disagree with this, Raikage has shown just as much skill with his taijutsu. It doesn't matter if he uses a ninjutsu to augment his taijutsu, to me at least. 

 

And to me taijutsu is just physical combat if you want to broaden things, swords included. 



#25 Ajh77

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:39 PM

I disagree with this, Raikage has shown just as much skill with his taijutsu. It doesn't matter if he uses a ninjutsu to augment his taijutsu, to me at least. 

 

And to me taijutsu is just physical combat if you want to broaden things, swords included. 

How so?  Anyone can punch and kick wildly (which is what the Raikage does).  I can't remember anytime where he has demonstrated notable skill with his fighting style.


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#26 TheoryNoJutsu

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:14 AM

He's not just punching and kicking wildly. The Lariat belongs to a very specific fighting school (wrestling).

 

I believe Taijutsu encompasses everything physical in a fight. Closing in on the enemy at high speed is a form of taijutsu, as was explained by Kakashi in the early days, to justify the kind of training he provided Sasuke with when the latter learned Chidori.



#27 Peleihno

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:40 PM

The concept of taijutsu is defined by unarmed, empty handed combat. 

 

Kenjutsu does not fall under this. 



How so?  Anyone can punch and kick wildly (which is what the Raikage does).  I can't remember anytime where he has demonstrated notable skill with his fighting style.

What exactly do you want though, to say differently? 

 

Ei's style is different from Gai's altogether. It's brutal, quick (Well, so is Gai's), and includes wrestling techniques. I think the fact that he weaves together his taijutsu with ninjutsu (Lightning armor) to the point of perfection says alot. His skill in taijutsu is more than notable, it's amongst the best. If you want to say Gai is more purely skilled while Ei's makes up for said deficiency with superior physical prowess, sure. 

 

Do you want Ei to use actual named techniques like Gai and Lee? You're making it sound like Ei's a chump in terms of taijutsu, which isn't the case at all. 


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#28 Ajh77

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:53 PM

What exactly do you want though, to say differently? 

 

Ei's style is different from Gai's altogether. It's brutal, quick (Well, so is Gai's), and includes wrestling techniques. I think the fact that he weaves together his taijutsu with ninjutsu (Lightning armor) to the point of perfection says alot. His skill in taijutsu is more than notable, it's amongst the best. If you want to say Gai is more purely skilled while Ei's makes up for said deficiency with superior physical prowess, sure.

 

Do you want Ei to use actual named techniques like Gai and Lee? You're making it sound like Ei's a chump in terms of taijutsu, which isn't the case at all. 

Yeah, the bold is exactly what I was getting at.  Though, I still feel, overall, Gai is the superior Taijutsu user because he has a high level of skill and physical prowess which I doubt Raikage's physical prowess alone can stand with.  

 

More techniques would help but I just want to basically see more skill involved.  He has demonstrated great physical strength but I haven't seen him use that physical strength in such a way that would put him on par with Gai's level of overall Taijutsu ability.  I didn't mean to imply Raikage was bad in Taijutsu if that is how it came off.  It's just that in comparison to Gai, he is lacking a bit.  I just see Gai at the top of the Taijutsu users with everyone else (of high level fighters who use Taijutsu) close beneath him.


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Sajin Komamura - "I won't tell you not to hate me. I won't tell you not to bear a grudge against me. All I ask is that you don't sacrifice yourself for the sake of revenge. If you were to do that, and I were to lose you, like you lost your friend, it would break my heart."

 

Tousen Kaname - "...Thank you...Komamura."


#29 Peleihno

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:04 PM

Oh, I agree that Gai is the top dog in terms of pure taijutsu -- the grandmaster, I suppose. I wasn't arguing that Ei was superior to Gai in taijutsu, just to be clear.
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#30 retroluffy13

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:55 PM

oh, hey REAL gai thread.  suup?


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#31 rockleeisawesome

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 01:03 AM

I REALLY want to see the 8th Gate and see how much Lee has improved and if he's on Gai's level yet but this isn't going to happen is it? haha 



#32 Nmaan

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 03:06 AM

Ei does have a few named attacks: Raiger/Liger Bomb, Lightning Oppression Horizontal Chop, Lariat, Double Lariat, Guillotine Drop, even his Iron Claw "attack" is a skill from Japanese pro wrestling.

I think Ajh you're confusing skill with style. The raikage has shown a good deal of skill but not in a "flashy" style like Gai's. If you read HSDK you could say Ei is comparable to Diego Carlos who was considered to be one of the 10 most powerful/skilled killing fist martial artists, despite him using Lucha Libre.


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#33 uchiha jinrai

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:35 PM

Yeah, the bold is exactly what I was getting at. Though, I still feel, overall, Gai is the superior Taijutsu user because he has a high level of skill and physical prowess which I doubt Raikage's physical prowess alone can stand with.

More techniques would help but I just want to basically see more skill involved. He has demonstrated great physical strength but I haven't seen him use that physical strength in such a way that would put him on par with Gai's level of overall Taijutsu ability. I didn't mean to imply Raikage was bad in Taijutsu if that is how it came off. It's just that in comparison to Gai, he is lacking a bit. I just see Gai at the top of the Taijutsu users with everyone else (of high level fighters who use Taijutsu) close beneath ..


'scuse me if I'm wrong but isn't this whole discussion kinda pointless since we've been told that the Raikage uses "nintaijutsu" and not just taijutsu. This would make it like the Kenjutsu and Taijutsu thing from before.

Also, I think Tenten is a Bukijutsu (sp?) specialist, not a taijutsu one. Guy has been shown to be superior to most shinobi in taijutsu technique, but we don't know how he would fare against Raikage's nintaijutsu or even Hiyashi (or was it Hisashi?) Hyuuga's gentle fist. So technique alone won't do him much good against more powerful (not stronger- but powerful) opponents.

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#34 Ajh77

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:48 PM

Ei does have a few named attacks: Raiger/Liger Bomb, Lightning Oppression Horizontal Chop, Lariat, Double Lariat, Guillotine Drop, even his Iron Claw "attack" is a skill from Japanese pro wrestling.

I think Ajh you're confusing skill with style. The raikage has shown a good deal of skill but not in a "flashy" style like Gai's. If you read HSDK you could say Ei is comparable to Diego Carlos who was considered to be one of the 10 most powerful/skilled killing fist martial artists, despite him using Lucha Libre.

It may have come off that way but that isn't what I was trying to do.  I think I was undermining Raikage's skill(something I corrected in my last response to Pele) when I was comparing him to Gai.  Yeah, Diego from HSDK would be a good example of how that style can be skillful.  I just feel Gai has a superior level of skill(though, it isn't large) which could make up for the difference in power.  Especially if Gai whips out the Gates.

 

'scuse me if I'm wrong but isn't this whole discussion kinda pointless since we've been told that the Raikage uses "nintaijutsu" and not just taijutsu. This would make it like the Kenjutsu and Taijutsu thing from before.

Also, I think Tenten is a Bukijutsu (sp?) specialist, not a taijutsu one. Guy has been shown to be superior to most shinobi in taijutsu technique, but we don't know how he would fare against Raikage's nintaijutsu or even Hiyashi (or was it Hisashi?) Hyuuga's gentle fist. So technique alone won't do him much good against more powerful (not stronger- but powerful) opponents.

It can still be put underneath Taijutsu in general.

 

Gai's Gates would be a pretty good equalizer, wouldn't you say?


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Sajin Komamura - "I won't tell you not to hate me. I won't tell you not to bear a grudge against me. All I ask is that you don't sacrifice yourself for the sake of revenge. If you were to do that, and I were to lose you, like you lost your friend, it would break my heart."

 

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#35 uchiha jinrai

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:42 PM

It may have come off that way but that isn't what I was trying to do. I think I was undermining Raikage's skill(something I corrected in my last response to Pele) when I was comparing him to Gai. Yeah, Diego from HSDK would be a good example of how that style can be skillful. I just feel Gai has a superior level of skill(though, it isn't large) which could make up for the difference in power. Especially if Gai whips out the Gates.

It can still be put underneath Taijutsu in general.

Gai's Gates would be a pretty good equalizer, wouldn't you say?


'course, Guy on gates is like super a saiyajin. Even so, A being Raikage would place him on a whole other level. Or at least, it should..

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#36 Ajh77

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:02 PM

'course, Guy on gates is like super a saiyajin. Even so, A being Raikage would place him on a whole other level. Or at least, it should..

There isn't a set level of power for Kage though.  We've seen a rather broad level of power from Kage in the manga.  They are generally powerful but, for the most part, Kage are chosen as the "best" in their respective village.  That can encompass power but it is not exclusively because of that.


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Sajin Komamura - "I won't tell you not to hate me. I won't tell you not to bear a grudge against me. All I ask is that you don't sacrifice yourself for the sake of revenge. If you were to do that, and I were to lose you, like you lost your friend, it would break my heart."

 

Tousen Kaname - "...Thank you...Komamura."


#37 Alpha

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:12 PM

Does it take allot of skill to activate gates? Seems like naruto's chakra cloak, you either have the body for it or you don't.



#38 Five-Tailed-Fenrir

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:11 PM

Does it take allot of skill to activate gates? Seems like naruto's chakra cloak, you either have the body for it or you don't.


I don't think anybody really HAS the body for using the Gates. I think it's just a conditioning thing.

They train the body to be able to handle the strains of it, and over time, the activation of them isn't so taxing on the body.

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#39 Alpha

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:11 PM

I don't think anybody really HAS the body for using the Gates. I think it's just a conditioning thing.

They train the body to be able to handle the strains of it, and over time, the activation of them isn't so taxing on the body.

I still wouldn't call that skill.



#40 Nmaan

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:13 PM

Does it take allot of skill to activate gates? Seems like naruto's chakra cloak, you either have the body for it or you don't.

Opening the first gate probably isn't a big deal (Lee Gai and Kakashi have all opened it without much trouble or fanfare), but when Lee opened up more Kakashi commented that, that went beyond just hardwork, implying that it does indeed take a great deal of skill/talent to open multiple gates.


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