Jump to content


Photo

Fairy Tail: Chapter 321 Discussion


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
274 replies to this topic

#261 TheFireSage

TheFireSage

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 114 posts

Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:04 PM

Love in FT? That's a negative, I can't see the author seriously having characters in relationships throughout the series. Maybe towards the ending, until then he'll just tease people with love triangles, and traditional erotic situations or fan services. 


Saved before deletion.

*clap* *clap* *clap* Well done sir.

NwWW5Jv.png

 

“A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights.”

 


#262 MAX_COLA_POWER!

MAX_COLA_POWER!

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 510 posts

Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:06 PM

The only bit of love we got from FT was the offscreen marriage of Alzack and Bisca and of course, the result of said off panel lovin, Asuka.


Posted Image


#263 TheFireSage

TheFireSage

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 114 posts

Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:09 PM

So; love can only be found in marriage? Love IS marriage? Sounds neat. Why are we picking on FT then?

NwWW5Jv.png

 

“A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights.”

 


#264 MAX_COLA_POWER!

MAX_COLA_POWER!

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 510 posts

Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:11 PM

So; love can only be found in marriage? Love IS marriage? Sounds neat. Why are we picking on FT then?

Age long onemanga tradition I suppose. It is the displeasure that this series brings that brings out the pleasure of friendship in us all.


Posted Image


#265 TheFireSage

TheFireSage

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 114 posts

Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:19 PM

I didn't see the sign for a masochist club. Sorry. I'll leave now. *rambles off*

NwWW5Jv.png

 

“A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights.”

 


#266 Minato_Kamikaze

Minato_Kamikaze

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 377 posts

Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:22 PM

can't wait to the final chapter of  fairy tail where.. lucy gets laid by jellal 


 If You're a Halo fan and have XBL, click here to go to Halo Waypoint,  Home of all things Halo.


#267 MangaGremlin

MangaGremlin

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:30 AM

All I can say is that if you're perfectly fine with the same formula being recycled over and over for every arc until it's lost every bit of sense of interest from majority of its reader, good for you. You'll enjoy FT thoroughly.

 

Earlier in the arc Gildarts made his statement about fear very clear to Natsu. I was incredibly happy that he did, because that adds an aspect of realism to the story to which readers can relate to: when one is forced with the prospect of giving up and living to fight for another day due to fear. "Fear is not evil." "It takes tremendous courage to resheath one's sword." While it made sense for Natsu to draw inspiration from those words against Hades, it made no sense against what appeared to be against the big bad, particularly when a chance to escape was there. It was tantamount to suicide. The willingness to not abandon one's comrade in the face of a huge odd as always admirable. But you're forgetting that Natsu has another goal that is much more dear to him: finding Igneel. 

 

Also, never did I suggest in my idea that FT would fight each other and break up. Where did you read that exactly? They would simply mourn the loss of Makarov, and try to move forward, just as they had eventually done with Lisanna's loldeath. 

 

I'm not rejecting the theme of friendship. If I was, I would have dropped this manga long ago. In fact, Makarov's death would simply add depth to the theme of friendship, as we would finally explore how FT is willing to stick together after such a sudden tragedy, pick up the pieces, and move on.

 

I'm only stating that the redundancy is absolutely ridiculous. If FT seeks to continuously focus on this absurdly ideal concept of friendship and loyalty than this manga won't progress any further. It'll continually get more and more stale. There are better plot concepts to explore. 

 

The only way to not be bothered by this manga is to, as many people have said before, read it as though it was a parody of the theme of friendship. Which shouldn't be difficult, considering the healthy amount of comedy in it anyways. 

 

 

First off, I respect that you put this much thought into the manga's theme. However, it's not enough thought. Acnologia wasn't a lone gunman kidnapping a single person from a crowd. In that scenario, the crowd has an expectancy of actually escaping. There was no escaping that dragon. The army was miles away at sea knowing they weren't safe either. FT coming back to throw garbage at it is therefore not suicide. It's more like:  might as well try attacking since survival is impossible.

 

I misunderstood you a bit, but you're still rejecting FT's theme like I thought. Not just by fantasizing that the plot itself be different but by getting all annoyed about the theme that defines this manga. You'll never love something you're ashamed of.



#268 Phenomiracle

Phenomiracle

    Hime

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,358 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:46 AM

First off, I respect that you put this much thought into the manga's theme. However, it's not enough thought. Acnologia wasn't a lone gunman kidnapping a single person from a crowd. In that scenario, the crowd has an expectancy of actually escaping. There was no escaping that dragon. The army was miles away at sea knowing they weren't safe either. FT coming back to throw garbage at it is therefore not suicide. It's more like:  might as well try attacking since survival is impossible.


This is where Makarov is supposed to step in, lol. Put up a stand that defines him as a man amongst men and, with his final act of glory, succeed in holding off what is supposed to be the most powerful and wicked dragon in the series in order for his guild to escape.

That act alone would forever make him a memorable character, up until the very end of Fairy Tail.

I misunderstood you a bit, but you're still rejecting FT's theme like I thought. Not just by fantasizing that the plot itself be different but by getting all annoyed about the theme that defines this manga. You'll never love something you're ashamed of.


How incredibly dismissive of an attitude.

First off, that what just a hypothetical plot conceptualization that was meant to be purely arbitrary. It's as I said, I'm sure plenty of others could have cooked up something better.

I've made my points very clear: it's the absolute redundancy of the theme, without even the slightest alterations in its presentation that is continually making this series stale. That is not a "rejection" of the theme. The hypothetical scenario I had envisioned actually embraces that very theme, and adds not only depth, but an aspect to it which readers can relate.

Then again, it all comes down to how we wish to enjoy a manga. The way FT is going, only people who are willingly to forgive redundancy and plot predictability in the name of just casually following along can truly enjoy what this series is turning into.

2wqahx1.jpg


#269 jomegar

jomegar

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,749 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:23 AM

This is where Makarov is supposed to step in, lol. Put up a stand that defines him as a man amongst men and, with his final act of glory, succeed in holding off what is supposed to be the most powerful and wicked dragon in the series in order for his guild to escape.

That act alone would forever make him a memorable character, up until the very end of Fairy Tail.


How incredibly dismissive of an attitude.

First off, that what just a hypothetical plot conceptualization that was meant to be purely arbitrary. It's as I said, I'm sure plenty of others could have cooked up something better.

I've made my points very clear: it's the absolute redundancy of the theme, without even the slightest alterations in its presentation that is continually making this series stale. That is not a "rejection" of the theme. The hypothetical scenario I had envisioned actually embraces that very theme, and adds not only depth, but an aspect to it which readers can relate.

Then again, it all comes down to how we wish to enjoy a manga. The way FT is going, only people who are willingly to forgive redundancy and plot predictability in the name of just casually following along can truly enjoy what this series is turning into.

 

The theme can't be redundant unless outright contradicted, it has to be continually upheld to some degree. So, I'd say, you are rejecting it by calling it redundant as if it was redundant it would actually need to be dropped as it be superfluous to the continuing plot. And friendship is the central theme.

 

What might be redundant, is the pattern or execution, but only in relation to the quality of the story being dynamic or innovative. Repetition will occur as it is part of consistency.

 

Either way, some people prefer a level of predictability. Best example, looking for new music or movies etc. in similar genres. You're looking for what you already like. So, calling it forgiveness, to like such a trait, might be kinda presumptuous.

 

And I'm not nitpicking, I'm stuck on reading what people think they aren't saying and meaning in choice of words etc. So, on some level, you probably do feel or think that; unless you really did just use the wrong word.

 

*frowns* Sorry.


Edited by jomegar, 08 March 2013 - 01:24 AM.


#270 Phenomiracle

Phenomiracle

    Hime

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,358 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:30 AM

The theme can't be redundant unless outright contradicted, it has to be continually upheld to some degree. So, I'd say, you are rejecting it by calling it redundant as if it was redundant it would actually need to be dropped as it be superfluous to the continuing plot. And friendship is the central theme.

What might be redundant, is the pattern or execution, but only in relation to the quality of the story being dynamic or innovative. Repetition will occur as it is part of consistency.

Either way, some people prefer a level of predictability. Best example, looking for new music or movies etc. in similar genres. You're looking for what you already like. So, calling it forgiveness, to like such a trait, might be kinda presumptuous.

And I'm not nitpicking, I'm stuck on reading what people think they aren't saying and meaning in choice of words etc. So, on some level, you probably do feel or think that; unless you really did just use the wrong word.

*frowns* Sorry.


Its quite obvious that you've ignored the entire paragraph that followed the part you bolded.

I've addressed all of what you said right here then. Please go back and read that again for clarification. I'm not in the mood for posting the same stuff again.

Also, "consistency" in following the exact execution formula of a central theme is soft language for outright "redundancy." This is the very crux of my dissatisfaction with FT. And since it apparently isn't clear enough for some, for the third and final time I'll reiterate: I'm not against the theme of central theme of friendship.

Edited by Phenomiracle, 08 March 2013 - 01:41 AM.

2wqahx1.jpg


#271 jomegar

jomegar

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,749 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:44 AM

Looks like you've ignored the entire paragraph that followed the part you bolded.

I've addressed all of what you said right here then. Please go back and read that again for clarification. I'm not in the mood for posting the same stuff again.

Also, "consistency" in following the exact execution formula of a central theme is soft language for outright "redundancy." This is the very crux of my dissatisfaction with FT. I'm not against the central theme, for god's sake...

 

Seems you misunderstood yourself - I said the theme is not redundant, the execution of the theme is another issue, however. In a manga about friendship, which is the theme, restating of that value on at least fairly regular basis is perfectly alright. I never said, repeating it in the same fashion, was alright, just repeating it.

 

I also said, repetition WILL occur as it's part of consistency, meaning things WILL repeat. I never specified how or what would or should repeat in that line, though my point does say the theme should repeat itself a little. So, anyway, the theme isn't redundant and so your use of the word probably highlights your true feelings inspite of what you say. Or, you're using the wrong word.


Edited by jomegar, 08 March 2013 - 01:46 AM.


#272 Phenomiracle

Phenomiracle

    Hime

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,358 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:58 AM

Seems you misunderstood yourself - I said the theme is not redundant, the execution of the theme is another issue, however. In a manga about friendship, which is the theme, restating of that value on at least fairly regular basis is perfectly alright. I never said, repeating it in the same fashion, was alright, just repeating it.

I also said, repetition WILL occur as it's part of consistency, meaning things WILL repeat. I never specified how or what would or should repeat in that line, though my point does say the theme should repeat itself a little. So, anyway, the theme isn't redundant and so your use of the word probably highlights your true feelings inspite of what you say. Or, you're using the wrong word.


Just looked back on my very first usage of the term "redundancy," (very first response to MangaGremlin) NOW I'm getting why your insight seems so blatantly contrast to what I have to say. I didn't specify that the repetitive manner of execution of the theme's absurdly ideal concept of friendship is what annoyed me. My bad there.

Regardless, my point should be very well clear by now.

If you're still not convinced that's what I initially meant (knowing you, jomegar, that's exactly the case), look back to my take on how a hypothetical scenario of Makarov's death would further develop the theme of friendship in several ways.

Edited by Phenomiracle, 08 March 2013 - 02:10 AM.

2wqahx1.jpg


#273 jomegar

jomegar

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,749 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:16 AM

Just looked back on my very first usage of the term "redundancy," (response to MangaGremlin) NOW I'm getting why your insight seems so blatantly contrast to what I have to say. I didn't specify that the repetitive manner of execution of the there's absurdly ideal concept of friendship is what annoyed me. My bad there.

Regardless, my point should be very well clear by now.

If you're still not convinced that's what I initially meant (knowing you, jomegar, that's exactly the case), look back to my take on how a hypothetical scenario of Makarov's death would further develop the theme of friendship in several ways.

 

No, I got what you thought you were saying, I was focusing on what you actually said and implying it's possible you subconsciously do have a level of rejection for the theme or used the wrong word. So, you mispoke or believe the opposite inspite of your comments. That happens a lot. It was up to you to clarify, but, instead, inspite of my comments on not trying to be an ass or anything, you still got worked up. In fact, you have admitted I was right, but you're still being aggressive.

 

Also, what I said doesn't contrast what you said as I even said the pattern and execution of the theme can be redundant.

 

My only real gripe, is your attempt to somewhat demonise a preference for repetition in of itself. We repeat things of interest all the time without losing interest and so people can enjoy something for it's unwavering conviction to the established pattern. I never stated whether this was a good or bad thing in relation to FT or anything of the sort.


Edited by jomegar, 08 March 2013 - 02:16 AM.


#274 Phenomiracle

Phenomiracle

    Hime

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,358 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:38 AM

No, I got what you thought you were saying, I was focusing on what you actually said and implying it's possible you subconsciously do have a level of rejection for the theme or used the wrong word. So, you mispoke or believe the opposite inspite of your comments. That happens a lot. It was up to you to clarify, but, instead, inspite of my comments on not trying to be an ass or anything, you still got worked up. In fact, you have admitted I was right, but you're still being aggressive..


Come on, bro, really?

I can't take you very seriously if you try to play guessing games on what I subconsciously feel or try to implicate at what I "truly" think. Take what I said at face value, as common people would also do in conversation. Otherwise, we'll be going in circles forever.

Realize that I can easily do what you're doing and hint that you subconsciously enjoy the bland repetition of theme execution because of you forcing me to act like a broken record.

But I don't, because I know that you're a lot more reasonable than that. I can only request that you offer me the same respect.

My only real gripe, is your attempt to somewhat demonise a preference for repetition in of itself. We repeat things of interest all the time without losing interest and so people can enjoy something for it's unwavering conviction to the established pattern. I never stated whether this was a good or bad thing in relation to FT or anything of the sort.


Manner of theme repetition is a problem for FT, period. It isn't just me, talk to anyone and ask them what one of their main problems with the series is.

They won't say, "It sucks because we all know that FT will win." That's not a problem at all, anyway. Protagonists must always prevail. They will, however, say "It sucks because we all know about the nakama power ups/speeches." THAT is the redundancy I'm referring to: the exact formula for theme execution. Used in every arc. It's all contributing to making the series more and more stale.

One perfect way to fix this is to create a dilemma in the plot in which friendship is tested through a trial/setback/tragedy. To see how friendship not only offers an illogical power up, but how it brings FT together after such a hardship. To see why FT's friendship is superior to that of other guilds.

I've got nothing against repetition, lol. I love having orange juice every morning after breakfast.

Edited by Phenomiracle, 08 March 2013 - 02:47 AM.

2wqahx1.jpg


#275 AmrodAegnor

AmrodAegnor

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 339 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:41 AM

can't wait to the final chapter of  fairy tail where.. future-lucy gets laid by zeref

 

fixed. Happy ending achieved. :hurr: