I mentioned them because I was making a counterargument. Because that's kinda what a counter argument is. I'm raising an objection to your argument by bringing up an alternative explanation/proposal that makes more sense. Am I not allowed to consider the possible merits of alternative points of view besides yours? You're argument was that you believe that Hawkins was the same as Luffy, I disagreed, and made an argument for why I don't think it is the case, and outlined my reasons based on the manga why I hold my assumption to be true, and therefore your's false.
All pretty words that only dodge the point. You still fail to explain how you KNEW what you said didn't have anything to do with my post and that I never claimed them but still mentioned them anw.
Funny how you say ''that's what a counter argument is'' without actually knowing what it is, based on your argument anw. To counter something (let call it A) is to mention that A and refute it by evidence that directly goes against that A. But you do that by...mentioning some other things (let call it that doesn't have anything to do with A and provide evidence that goes against B rather than A? Man, I don't have the word argument anymore...
And I know you're saying Hawkins is not the same as Luffy. I agree. They are not the same age, they are not the same height, their DFs are different, their faces are different, they have different crews, they wear different clothes etc. LOL See what I did there? The same way you just generalize my post by saying I said ''they are the same'' and then go on counter that without understanding what it is, in which aspects I'm saying they are similar.
The only counter arguments you've offered so far have been, "You can't read" and "That's not what I'm talking about", which aren't actual arguments. Which leads me to believe that you are just grasping at straws and don't have a legitimate objection to my claims.
Except that I provide more than that and you just couldn't/didn't read. I have like many other lines besides that paragraph and hopefully you read them.
Sorry. I don't follow football, so I don't understand the analogy.
You don't need to follow it to understand that example. It seems like the problem is not just reading comprehension. Not very good to know but reassuring in a way.
Are you just going to keep on calling my reading comprehension into question or are you going to actually respond to my contentions? Frankly, It’s getting trite.
I responded to your contentions in other parts of my post but clearly you just didn't care about them or dodging them. Just like the last time with out Haki debate. LOL
I’m saying that the only basis for your argument is your opinions.Your claim that Hawkins is the same as Luffy is nothing more than your opinion. You have yet to offer concrete evidence from the manga to back up your claims.
Except that I did refer to what Hawkins did in the manga which you, ironically, noticed yourself by quoting it in the following parts of your paragraph...You may have problem with my interpretation or my view on what Hawkins did, but claiming I have not offered manga canon is just plain absurd.
The only support that you’ve offered has been, Hawkins is just a science-coating Luffy(again, based on what?)
Based on what Hawkins did in the manga?
Hawkins thinks “it’s also luck and I always win(which I have demonstrated to be untrue)
Another evidence that shows you just can't read. I did explain what I mean by that and you still cling to it anw...
and that he’s just Luffy “but add in some ‘tarot-like cards and percentage numbers” which, again, is nothing more than your opinion, given that Luffy and Hawkins have completely different personality traits.
That right there shows you still haven't understood my point. I didn't say ''he's just Luffy but add in...''. That would mean they are similar in other aspects and the only difference is the Tarot card. While what I mean is only about the luck itself.
What you said about Hawkins doesn't make any sense. Your reasons for why "Hawkins is just a 'science-coating' Luffy" are just your unsupported interpretations of Hawkins.
Eh, I didn't say they are well-supported or infallible. That's why I used ''looks like''...
And then as mentioned above, the interpretation is supported by manga canon. If you have better interpretation then tell me but don't tell me I don't have any support. It's not like I claim ''Kaidou has a pegasus DF'' out of nowhere with absolutely nothing hinting that or makes it ''looks like'' that. I do based my feeling/interpretation on what I see in the manga.
So you weren't being completely serious?
No, I was.
I was serious about jesting Luffy and his main character armor with the ''I always win''.
And I was serious about Hawkins, too, though the ''win'' there means ''he gets the result which is desirable or ideal given the circumstance'' rather than winning as in a match or fight.
If you're a fortune teller, what's the best thing people can say about you? Obviously that your prediction comes true. So his cards told him he would lose to Kizaru for sure hence why he didn't fight at all and his cards also told him he couldn't die that's why he was so confident (which is evident from his manner and calmness) and all of that led to a result that is Hawkins didn't die and escape safely => a very desirable result (though not the ideal/best one. That would be beating Kizaru). So by following his cards' predictions, he went for a route of action that brought him a desirable outcome. It looks like this guy can cheat fate and always get out of dire situations (maybe unless his cards say ''100% death ). So yeah, Hawkins wins as a fortune teller and as a fighter who got himself in a hopeless fight. He succeeded in what he wants: escape safely! It's the same for Luffy, really. He fought the MF War not because he wanted to win 1vs1 against Admirals or whoever, he fought to save Ace. If he lost all the fights but somehow saved Ace, he wins.
Even when a kick is inches from his face, he remained completely composed.
That's not the page but well, ''completely composed'' or ''too slow to realize what happened''? Plus, his ability let him use other people to receive injuries for him. It's a very convenient power in that moment so...
He calculates the probabilities of the battle
He calculates or his cards calculate? We haven't known how his cards work...O__O
He evaluates how strong Kizaru is, and accordingly takes the necessary precautions against him, demonstrating that he exercises caution
So? With an ability like that, his use of it is obvious. How do you know if Luffy had that ability, he wouldn't act the same? Clearly Luffy is a brawler but nothing says if Luffy had that ability, he would ignore and not use it. That link only shows me Hawkins can use his ability. I wouldn't say it shows me he uses his ability well or cautiously. Even Luffy knows when he has to flee from battle. The only reason he charges forward in some cases is because he has no other way. Luffy knew the Admirals are very strong, but he had to fight otherwise he wouldn't be able to save Ace.
His decision to fight Kizaru wasn’t based on bold self confidence, which is a notorious character trait of Luffy, but was arrived at after determining his exact odds of survival prior.
Luffy's decision to fight is based on his fearlessness (though sometimes it's absent), his love for nakama, his own justice, or forced situations. I don't recall any fight Luffy comes in with ''I'm confident'' mentality...
And nothing says such odds come from a reasonable, logical ground...
This isn’t the case with Luffy. In many instances in the manga, Luffy has been known to lose his cool and let his emotions get the better of him. Sometimes to the point of putting himself, and even his crew in danger. It’s frequently the case that he doesn’t consider the long-term consequences of his actions; likewise, it’s not uncharacteristic of him to be impulsive and rash. It’s often difficult for him to see the bigger picture as well.
And those situations would definitely happen if he had Hawkins's card thing?
There are other examples, but I think I've made my point. Granted, I’m not saying that Luffy can’t think prospectively, or weigh the risks. In fact, sometimes he can use his head. He gave the order to retreat from the pacifistas because he understood the risks and the chances of survival. The point I'm trying to make is that it's not characteristic of him. I don't think Hawkins is some kind of master strategist, who considers every contingency and comes up with elaborate plans. On the other hand, I don’t think he’s nearly as reckless or as hotheaded as Luffy is, and he certainly seems to have more forethought than Luffy does. But like I said before, if I were to chose who he resembles more closely between Luffy and Law, it would be Law. To say that Luffy and Hawkins are the same would be to say that either Luffy is characteristically coolheaded and calculative or that Hawkins is characteristically headstrong and irresponsible, and neither assumption is corroborated by the manga, and thus your assumptions about him being the same as Luffy are nothing more your opinions, and likely untrue.
Except that, as I have said again and again, telling me they are different in those aspects doesn't hurt my point cause I never compare them in terms of those personality traits.
''To say...would be to say...'' or ''If I were to chose'' or ''I don't think'' or ''seems to...'' is also just your opinion and the 1st one is wrong. I can do that kind of argument as well...
Plus you compare a guy who we have seen only a few moments of to Luffy who we have like probably most panels out of any character? If I gather all the panels of Luffy not being reckless and saying some intelligent thing I'm sure it would amount to more than that of Hawkins, who so far demonstrate a good manner but who knows how he would look like if angry...