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New OM Battle Royale Discussion


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#21 Srki

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 04:07 AM

Majority doesn't imply consensus. If there is someone who has valid points why your hypothesis is wrong it doesn't matter how many people are backing you up, you still can't say that you have reached consensus. Of course, what is "valid" is pretty subjective. 

 

More to the point, majority isn't always right. Point of vs debate should be proving to opponent that your view is right, and not trying to spin your story better for the readers. 

 

Which is to say, yes, i dislike masses voting stuff. 



#22 ANewLight

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:21 AM

Well if we just go with polls one group will complain that the other group is bias and only won because of that. If we go with just judges people will complain that the judges are biased. From what I've heard we've been through this before and the best system was what we ended up using in the end with judges and polls.


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#23 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:55 AM

Majority doesn't imply consensus. If there is someone who has valid points why your hypothesis is wrong it doesn't matter how many people are backing you up, you still can't say that you have reached consensus. Of course, what is "valid" is pretty subjective. 
 
More to the point, majority isn't always right. Point of vs debate should be proving to opponent that your view is right, and not trying to spin your story better for the readers. 
 
Which is to say, yes, i dislike masses voting stuff.

You misunderstand. I don't mean polls to determine a winner or anything. I just like seeing what people think, and having it in an easy accessible form (polls) is cool.

 

Basically I like stats.


Edited by DaEvilWithin, 23 August 2014 - 10:55 AM.


#24 Nmaan

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:04 AM

Tchhh nerd.

 

I don't think polls are useless but I don't agree with them as the only way to determine who's stronger.


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#25 Oben

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:12 AM

I always liked the system the OMBR had so far - polls + judgments. Bias can be deburred that way, but the public opinion still plays an important role. If there are judges willing to participate, that seems like the best idea to me.
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#26 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:24 AM

I always liked the system the OMBR had so far - polls + judgments. Bias can be deburred that way, but the public opinion still plays an important role. If there are judges willing to participate, that seems like the best idea to me.

The problem is commitment. OMBR has a history of judges disappearing or just being slow in general.


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#27 Shin

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 05:42 PM

You don't need polls or judges. Whole point of this is debate. Polls and judges really don't bring anything on table. Yes, there will be debates where sides wont agree on outcome, but polls and judges wont change that.

 

As for creating threads, just let anyone do it. If people like it, they will keep it up with discussion. If they don't, it will die. It is that simple. There is no need for complicated systems.

 

For tournaments, smaller ones can be done in one thread. Not every tournament has to have 80+ characters and four matches going on simultaneously. Smaller tournaments(with eight or sixteen characters) can be done in one thread and can be made and maintained by one person.

 

Well the polls or judges were for tournaments. Since you have to determine some way for characters to advance. That is the only place they are needed and why I only mentioned them when talking about tournaments. 

 

And I don't really like just any random threads and battles being created. That seems like it can get overly messy without some sort of structure. Plus Greg and Rhyssa have always been against those sort of things on OMF. Then again the user base is small enough where maybe it can be managed.

 

Still, it seems like all of you aren't really sure what you want to see exactly. Maybe we can have just individual battles going on alongside a big tournament, or tournaments, with judges and things.

 

 

 



#28 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 07:48 PM

@Shin
So the idea of having designated posters create threads for suggested matches is a no go?

#29 Shin

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:05 PM

@DaEvilWithin I don't think the Admins would want to give certain posters more power than normal posters.

 

Though maybe we could have a nominations thread for battles and certain posters (maybe designate those posters by which series they want to look over/make threads for or something) will take a few of the selected battles and open up threads for them. So each week we could have a handful of new battles open and just continue to add to them as the weeks progress and not close the old ones.

 

For example each Monday we can open up 5 or so new battles that were nominated from the nominations thread. Though to make sure that each member gets to see the battles they want, just have each poster nominated a group of battles they want (can be 1v1, team battles or battles with specific situations) and just pick the battle at the top of each of the first 5 members' nomination list. Then next week we pick the top battles from the next 5 members and once we reach the end of the thread we pick the second battle from the first 5 posters and so on.



#30 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:07 PM

@DaEvilWithin I don't think the Admins would want to give certain posters more power than normal posters.

 

Though maybe we could have a nominations thread for battles and certain posters (maybe designate those posters by which series they want to look over/make threads for or something) will take a few of the selected battles and open up threads for them. So each week we could have a handful of new battles open and just continue to add to them as the weeks progress and not close the old ones.

 

For example each Monday we can open up 5 or so new battles that were nominated from the nominations thread. Though to make sure that each member gets to see the battles they want, just have each poster nominated a group of battles they want (can be 1v1, team battles or battles with specific situations) and just pick the battle at the top of each of the first 5 members' nomination list. Then next week we pick the top battles from the next 5 members and once we reach the end of the thread we pick the second battle from the first 5 posters and so on.

That's basically what I meant. Not to give designated posters free reign.



#31 Srki

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:23 AM

Well the polls or judges were for tournaments. Since you have to determine some way for characters to advance. That is the only place they are needed and why I only mentioned them when talking about tournaments.

 

I am aware, i was talking about single VS battles. 

 

And I don't really like just any random threads and battles being created. That seems like it can get overly messy without some sort of structure. Plus Greg and Rhyssa have always been against those sort of things on OMF. Then again the user base is small enough where maybe it can be managed.

 

Sure. That's why i mentioned new subforum. If people want to discuss something, it will keep thread bumped. Otherwise it will go down and die. In other words selfmoderation via popularity.

 

Still, it seems like all of you aren't really sure what you want to see exactly. Maybe we can have just individual battles going on alongside a big tournament, or tournaments, with judges and things.

 

That's precisely what i am asking for, along with easier creation of threads for various threads for users. 


Edited by Srki, 24 August 2014 - 01:24 AM.


#32 Shin

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:15 PM

Okay, I'll try to set up something this week maybe to see how it goes. Though was that a yes/no to the nomination thread? Since I can set that up sooner to see what kind of battles you want.



#33 Master Splinter

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 07:27 AM

I think it would better if we had a nomination thread so we could throww out ideas for battles and then out of those ideas we pick whatever would be best. So pretty much what you said Shin.

#34 Srki

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 07:58 AM

That takes too much time, and more importantly entire things come to halt if whoever is in charge of verifying is not available. 

 

Let us make threads. If people like it, they will keep it bumped. Otherwise it will die. You can always lock questionable threads. 



#35 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 07:45 PM

Okay, I'll try to set up something this week maybe to see how it goes. Though was that a yes/no to the nomination thread? Since I can set that up sooner to see what kind of battles you want.

Pretty sure it is a yes.

That takes too much time, and more importantly entire things come to halt if whoever is in charge of verifying is not available. 
 
Let us make threads. If people like it, they will keep it bumped. Otherwise it will die. You can always lock questionable threads.

Just give it to people who are ever-present.

I doubt it would ever be allowed on OMF. This itself seems like it'd be pushing it.

#36 Shin

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:44 PM

Okay, I believe that normal members can open threads in this part of the forum now. So you can open threads for battles that you'd like to discuss and can even start organizing a new battle tournament if you like. I'll help out with any tournament but I don't want to run the whole thing myself.

 

I'll probably start archiving the old battle threads now and then come up with some guidelines or rules maybe and pin that to the top of the main part of the battle forum. Also I might make a forum announcement about the battle sub-forum being open later in the week.


 

I decided to just let users open the battle threads they want to discuss, but I am thinking of setting up maybe a smaller tournament (not sure if it will be for a series or something else, might open a poll to help decide that) to run alongside those other battles with judges and the like. Of course it wouldn't be as complicated as the previous tournament, but I like the idea of there being some progression with the battle discussions rather than just random debating and a tournament could offer that.


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#37 Damanos

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:50 PM

Based Shin.

 

Now can we all agree not to fuck things up for everybody by not losing our shit at the slightest provocation and giving a reason to shut this down?


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#38 Srki

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 09:30 AM

So, i was thinking about setting Fate/ based tournament. Eight people, eight servants. Then we will use canon stats to determine difference between them, for example:

E- 1
D- 2
C- 4
B- 8

and so on. So Servant with B ranked strength would hit four times harder than one with D. Much more elegant than calcs if you ask me.

Naturally some servants would be restricted. Battlefield would be randomly selected out of pool via rolls, starting distance is 40m.

 

Setup will depend on interest. There will be 8 Servants with each player arguing for one or two, depending if there is 8/4 people, i will act as judge. If there is less i can participate myself. It will be classic 1v1 tournament system, first quarterfinal, then semi then final. Other participants and i will vote on their debate, and one with more votes will win. 

 

Only thing remaining is interest. I need at least 3 players, but more the better. 

 

So, thoughts?


Edited by Srki, 02 September 2014 - 09:45 AM.


#39 YoWid

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 10:35 AM


Then we will use canon stats

 

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#40 ddboy102

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 10:01 PM

so is it like okay to start making threads?


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