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[Miscellaneous] Rants on the Decline of Naruto (Part 2)


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#1 Narubi

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 06:03 PM

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Obito is part of what killed this story. One of the worst villains i've ever seen.

 

 

Obito had no reason to become a bad guy.

He had no reason killing off his clan.

He had no reason killing his teacher and wife.

He had no reason for hating konaha.

Last but not least no reason, he had no reason to bring back rin. She didn't like him, on his death bed she was going to confess to kakashi. ON HIS DEATH BED.

 

 

He's a worse writer than Kubo. And that's not saying much considering how bad Kubo is nowadays.

 

 

The last part he had no idea about. Though him doing all of this does come out of left field.

If memory serves it sounds like Rin was making that confession in an attempt to stop Kakashi from getting himself killed.

 

 

Ok you are right, but on the other hand he did know that rin only had eyes for kakashi. 

 

 

Totally agreed.

I mean this manga has lots of badly wriiten characters like Naruto, Sasuke, Karin, Kaguya to name but a few.

Its just that I personally find Obito and Sakura to be the worst outta the lot tbh.

 


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#2 retroluffy13

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Posted 16 May 2015 - 08:01 AM


Edited by retroluffy13, 17 May 2015 - 11:56 AM.

 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

Spoiler


also some ear kandy
Spoiler

when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.

#3 Baks

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Posted 16 May 2015 - 01:45 PM

I kinda find the choice for thrthread pic ironic.

Since after all Obito and his whining over Rin is one of the main reasons why this manga went downhill.

Edited by Baks, 16 May 2015 - 01:46 PM.


#4 Hellion

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Posted 16 May 2015 - 09:27 PM

Yes, lets keep bashing the orphan for being manipulated and losing everything he ever cared about EVEN THOUGH its been pointed out that serveral major characters could have ended up the same exact way with two of them actually on that route. Everytime I hear the OBITO hate I just cringe and SMH some of you haven't been paying any attention to what the author was trying to convey. I say the fans ruined the manga

#5 BoriketheBlackDragon

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Posted 16 May 2015 - 09:36 PM

Yes, lets keep bashing the orphan for being manipulated and losing everything he ever cared about EVEN THOUGH its been pointed out that serveral major characters could have ended up the same exact way with two of them actually on that route. Everytime I hear the OBITO hate I just cringe and SMH some of you haven't been paying any attention to what the author was trying to convey. I say the fans ruined the manga

Yes, I agree.  Let's instead bash Obito because he was Tobi's true identity! 

 

Although to be honest, I really think a lot of the Obito hate started because people never forgave him for that.  I know I didn't.


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#6 Hellion

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 05:14 AM

I don't know why his character even gets hate from that. It was teased from Kakashi's Gaiden and all of the clues were there right from his introduction with Deidara. It's not Kishimoto's fault that people didn't want it to be so. I think the decline in the manga came from the story being rushed to it's conclusion which screwed over character development for many characters. I also personally don't think that Kaguya was an ass-pull. As soon as the Sage showed up I immediately thought to myself who were his parents? And poof she showed up, her character and backstory though needed to be expanded on but that ass whooping she received was due to her being an ancient relic out of hdr depth

#7 Ultrafragor

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 08:49 AM

She got an ass whooping because of PIS.

She used Full Body Blow to destroy Sasuke's Susano'o. So, she could have used it to blow Sasuke and Naruto away from her

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#8 Baks

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 09:12 AM

Yes, lets keep bashing the orphan for being manipulated and losing everything he ever cared about EVEN THOUGH its been pointed out that serveral major characters could have ended up the same exact way with two of them actually on that route. Everytime I hear the OBITO hate I just cringe and SMH some of you haven't been paying any attention to what the author was trying to convey. I say the fans ruined the manga

How the hell did the fans ruin the manga? That is a copout excuse right there. Last time I checked, Kishi wrote the manga not the fans.

If you don't like people criticizing Obito or any other aspect of this manga then tough - Kishi should have written a better story.

Also this forum is a discussion about manga, both a particular mangas good and bad points. If you don't like people criticzing Naruto, then thats your problem.

Nowhere in the forum rules say you can't do that. If ya gotta prob with freedom of speech, go take it up with the mods.

Edited by Baks, 17 May 2015 - 09:18 AM.

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#9 Charnsuka

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 09:53 AM

A good majority of the audience thought the Tobi=Obito theory was dumb because it would too obvious a reveal. Many thought Kishi was just using a red herring to make us think it was Tobi, only to reveal something that was actually surprising. To his credit, Kishi did manage to subvert his audience's expectations, he just decided to do so in the most obvious manner. I guess you could say that it was the fans fault for actually being optimistic about Kishi's skills as a writer. 

 

As for Obito himself, he was a poorly executed character in a very poor story arc. It doesn't matter what Kishi's intent was, he executed it poorly. This is from someone who didn't mind Obito and kinda liked bits of his story. 


Edited by Charnsuka, 17 May 2015 - 09:54 AM.


#10 Ace1225

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 10:33 AM

LMFAO at the fans ruining the manga. Yes, that's remove any type of blame from the story's writer. If you were here on this forum, the older version, when the Obito reveal was building up, then you'll remember that the entire Naruto section was split down the middle as to whether or not it was Obito. Saying that everyone was therefore not expecting it to be him is simply inaccurate. Quite a few people did. The problem was that at the end of the day I don't think it mattered anymore, because Kishi took too damn long to make the reveal. People just wanted to know who it was so the story could move on. Unfortunately, you then had Kishi reveal Obito's crappy reasoning for everything he did and at that point it was just too late.

 

Let's realize, son started a world war, destroyed his entire clan, caused the deaths of his teacher and his wife, and caused an era of bloody conflict in the Mist because his crush died.

Yes, lets keep bashing the orphan for being manipulated and losing everything he ever cared about EVEN THOUGH its been pointed out that serveral major characters could have ended up the same exact way with two of them actually on that route. Everytime I hear the OBITO hate I just cringe and SMH some of you haven't been paying any attention to what the author was trying to convey. I say the fans ruined the manga

He didn't lose everything he ever cared about, he lost one person that he loved, but in the grand scheme was just his friend. His village, his clan, and his team still existed. He as a personally completely collapsed and lost all sense of moral direction once Rin died. She died and he immediately labeled everything else in the world to be worthless and for some reason came to hold such a strong grudge against his own clan that he helped kill every single member minus two. The root of Obito's manipulation goes back to Rin's death. Even if you acknowledge that Madara set that up, he in no way made Obito react the way that he did. That's on Obito, who with that type of reaction i'd label a weak person.

 

It's not even in the same way that it was for Naruto and Gaara, who were both actively ostracized to some extent. Obito's more like Iruka, just being a plain old run of the mill orphan. Gaara had people, his own father and uncle, trying to kill him. Naruto had people avoiding him and talking bad about him. They both had to wait many years to gain friends, due to the stigma around them. Obito didn't have anywhere near the same problems that they did. Gaara suffering a mental break made perfect sense, when the one person that he thought loved and cared for him actually tried to kill him and revealed that he'd always hated him. Obito again had Rin, Kakashi, Minato, the rest of the students in their graduating class, and i'm just going to assume Kushina met Minato's team a few times as well, plus the rest of his clan who clearly took care of him to some extent. Take into account that he, like the rest of his teammates, killed however many people during a world war, and him reacting in the way he did becomes even sillier. He's a ninja, a trained soldier, who has taken lives before, yet it never crossed his mind that Rin might die? Was that not one of the main plots of the Gaiden?

 

 

As for Obito himself, he was a poorly executed character in a very poor story arc. It doesn't matter what Kishi's intent was, he executed it poorly. This is from someone who didn't mind Obito and kinda liked bits of his story. 

Obito is a crappier dark version of Naruto. His motive for turning on the entire world is again the death of one person. One person who he was not shown to be that close to. Outside of a crush, Obito didn't treat Rin any different than he did Kakashi. He didn't spend a lot of time with her, there's nothing to imply they were best friends. It would be like Naruto deciding to become a villain because Sakura died. That'd be dumb and we all know it. Gaara turning out the way he did because his uncle tried to kill him, again, makes sense, because Gaara's story his entire support system and world was written to revolve around his uncle. Obito's story wasn't like that, just like Naruto's wasn't. Hell, Sasuke's story was more like that than Obito's, and it took years for him to fall into the darkness. Obito completely fell in on himself when Rin died. Said it time and again, a very easy way to make his reason more plausible, and for Kishi to show that he'd planned that plot threat out from the start, would've simply been to have Rin and Obito spend more time together. 

 

I don't mind anyone not necessarily hating Obito for what he did and why, but I think everyone should be able to admit that Kishi didn't do a good job fleshing out his reasons. And we all need to understand why fans want Obito to be written well, because his story arc dragged on for so long, and because he was arguably being built up as the final villain, and even now may be deserving of that status in a shared role with Madara and Kaguya. Historically speaking, Obito's one of the most important characters in the series, but the way he was written was disappointing.


Edited by Ace1225, 17 May 2015 - 10:41 AM.

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I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


#11 Hellion

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 11:05 AM

How the hell did the fans ruin the manga? That is a copout excuse right there. Last time I checked, Kishi wrote the manga not the fans.

If you don't like people criticizing Obito or any other aspect of this manga then tough - Kishi should have written a better story.

Also this forum is a discussion about manga, both a particular mangas good and bad points. If you don't like people criticzing Naruto, then thats your problem.

Nowhere in the forum rules say you can't do that. If ya gotta prob with freedom of speech, go take it up with the mods.


With you I'll just keep it simple. WTF are you talking about? How about instead of regurgitating crap to sound cool try providing a counter argument to what I was talking about. Follow your own advice. Where the hell did free speech come from

#12 Five-Tailed-Fenrir

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 11:18 AM

I thought Obito was a cool character. (cool as in 'bearable in concept' cool. not Naruto "he'z a kewl d00d!" cool.) I personally found his motives to be spot on with the whole 'Uchiha either really love or can really hate' concept. My problem was the timing in which he was revealed. I was even okay with Tobi being Obito, a lot of signs pointed to that. I wasn't okay with what could have been a great thing, happening smack dab in the middle of the war. (where I also feel like the reveal was 'big' but was also overshadowed by the fact they were then facing against Madara and a freshly-created Juubi. a lot of stuff going on there!)

 

I feel like the war arc in general was really 'meh' though. I also wanted more for the Naruto vs. Sasuke exchange. I get what Kishi was going for.. but still.


Edited by Five-Tailed-Fenrir, 17 May 2015 - 11:19 AM.

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The greatest thing about forums-- you get to see everyone's opinion on a certain topic of discussion.

The worst thing about forums-- you get to see everyone's opinion on a certain topic of discussion.

See where I'm going with this?


#13 Hellion

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 11:19 AM

A good majority of the audience thought the Tobi=Obito theory was dumb because it would too obvious a reveal. Many thought Kishi was just using a red herring to make us think it was Tobi, only to reveal something that was actually surprising. To his credit, Kishi did manage to subvert his audience's expectations, he just decided to do so in the most obvious manner. I guess you could say that it was the fans fault for actually being optimistic about Kishi's skills as a writer.

As for Obito himself, he was a poorly executed character in a very poor story arc. It doesn't matter what Kishi's intent was, he executed it poorly. This is from someone who didn't mind Obito and kinda liked bits of his story.


That's exactly what I meant by the fans ruining the manga but I found the reveal to be great he really did hide the answer in plain sight and had me zigzagging with who Tobi's identity, it was very ninja-like. As for him excuting his character poorly I dont agree. Through Obito I saw a disillusioned man. Rin's death was just the catlyst for his downfall and hate. He was fed up with the entire system just like Madara, Nagato, and Sasuke and he even explained that Kakashi during their duel. A man with nothing to lose is a dangerous man

#14 Baks

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 11:53 AM

With you I'll just keep it simple. WTF are you talking about? How about instead of regurgitating crap to sound cool try providing a counter argument to what I was talking about. Follow your own advice. Where the hell did free speech come from



I personally think that Kishi did a piss poor job developing Obito tbh. Like others have said, I too find his motives and reasons not all that great.

He basically couldn't get over an unrequited teenage love crush for Rin, which is his main reason for why he did all the crap that he did like starting a war, releasing the Kyuubi, being responsible for Minato's death, etc.

#15 Hellion

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 12:06 PM

LMFAO at the fans ruining the manga. Yes, that's remove any type of blame from the story's writer. If you were here on this forum, the older version, when the Obito reveal was building up, then you'll remember that the entire Naruto section was split down the middle as to whether or not it was Obito. Saying that everyone was therefore not expecting it to be him is simply inaccurate. Quite a few people did. The problem was that at the end of the day I don't think it mattered anymore, because Kishi took too damn long to make the reveal. People just wanted to know who it was so the story could move on. Unfortunately, you then had Kishi reveal Obito's crappy reasoning for everything he did and at that point it was just too late.

Let's realize, son started a world war, destroyed his entire clan, caused the deaths of his teacher and his wife, and caused an era of bloody conflict in the Mist because his crush died.
He didn't lose everything he ever cared about, he lost one person that he loved, but in the grand scheme was just his friend. His village, his clan, and his team still existed. He as a personally completely collapsed and lost all sense of moral direction once Rin died. She died and he immediately labeled everything else in the world to be worthless and for some reason came to hold such a strong grudge against his own clan that he helped kill every single member minus two. The root of Obito's manipulation goes back to Rin's death. Even if you acknowledge that Madara set that up, he in no way made Obito react the way that he did. That's on Obito, who with that type of reaction i'd label a weak person.

It's not even in the same way that it was for Naruto and Gaara, who were both actively ostracized to some extent. Obito's more like Iruka, just being a plain old run of the mill orphan. Gaara had people, his own father and uncle, trying to kill him. Naruto had people avoiding him and talking bad about him. They both had to wait many years to gain friends, due to the stigma around them. Obito didn't have anywhere near the same problems that they did. Gaara suffering a mental break made perfect sense, when the one person that he thought loved and cared for him actually tried to kill him and revealed that he'd always hated him. Obito again had Rin, Kakashi, Minato, the rest of the students in their graduating class, and i'm just going to assume Kushina met Minato's team a few times as well, plus the rest of his clan who clearly took care of him to some extent. Take into account that he, like the rest of his teammates, killed however many people during a world war, and him reacting in the way he did becomes even sillier. He's a ninja, a trained soldier, who has taken lives before, yet it never crossed his mind that Rin might die? Was that not one of the main plots of the Gaiden?


Obito is a crappier dark version of Naruto. His motive for turning on the entire world is again the death of one person. One person who he was not shown to be that close to. Outside of a crush, Obito didn't treat Rin any different than he did Kakashi. He didn't spend a lot of time with her, there's nothing to imply they were best friends. It would be like Naruto deciding to become a villain because Sakura died. That'd be dumb and we all know it. Gaara turning out the way he did because his uncle tried to kill him, again, makes sense, because Gaara's story his entire support system and world was written to revolve around his uncle. Obito's story wasn't like that, just like Naruto's wasn't. Hell, Sasuke's story was more like that than Obito's, and it took years for him to fall into the darkness. Obito completely fell in on himself when Rin died. Said it time and again, a very easy way to make his reason more plausible, and for Kishi to show that he'd planned that plot threat out from the start, would've simply been to have Rin and Obito spend more time together.

I don't mind anyone not necessarily hating Obito for what he did and why, but I think everyone should be able to admit that Kishi didn't do a good job fleshing out his reasons. And we all need to understand why fans want Obito to be written well, because his story arc dragged on for so long, and because he was arguably being built up as the final villain, and even now may be deserving of that status in a shared role with Madara and Kaguya. Historically speaking, Obito's one of the most important characters in the series, but the way he was written was disappointing.


Ugh why are you people putting words in my mouth? At what point did I say anything about everyone expected tobi to be obito? As for his actions I have to admit they were extreme and I can understand why his character gets flak for that but as I've been trying to point out he went off the rails and was manipulated to an extent. I never said he was sane or anything but I do understand where his grife from the shinobi world comes from. Another thing to point out was that he was very young when all of these traumatic experiences started happening to him which helped inuenced his world view(with "help" from Madara) and even then he wasn't entirely convinced with his own actions which made his character even more tragic. His village treated him like a nobody, his clan..... Well I dont have an explanation for his beef with them but I'm guessing he wiped them out on Madara's instructions, as for his team he had a grudge again Minato and Kakashi for the whole Rin situation. She was his Hope Spot or rather his whole team was and they failed him in his eyes(minus Rin) along with the ninja system that brought about these senseless problems and thats where his descent started and how Madara was able to partially get into his head also that Uchiha curse wasnt helping things. It wasnt like he just woke up one day and decided to do it for the evulz which many people seem to think. He's a flawed character but not so bad that he was the cause of the mangas decline.
 

LMFAO at the fans ruining the manga. Yes, that's remove any type of blame from the story's writer. If you were here on this forum, the older version, when the Obito reveal was building up, then you'll remember that the entire Naruto section was split down the middle as to whether or not it was Obito. Saying that everyone was therefore not expecting it to be him is simply inaccurate. Quite a few people did. The problem was that at the end of the day I don't think it mattered anymore, because Kishi took too damn long to make the reveal. People just wanted to know who it was so the story could move on. Unfortunately, you then had Kishi reveal Obito's crappy reasoning for everything he did and at that point it was just too late.

Let's realize, son started a world war, destroyed his entire clan, caused the deaths of his teacher and his wife, and caused an era of bloody conflict in the Mist because his crush died.
He didn't lose everything he ever cared about, he lost one person that he loved, but in the grand scheme was just his friend. His village, his clan, and his team still existed. He as a personally completely collapsed and lost all sense of moral direction once Rin died. She died and he immediately labeled everything else in the world to be worthless and for some reason came to hold such a strong grudge against his own clan that he helped kill every single member minus two. The root of Obito's manipulation goes back to Rin's death. Even if you acknowledge that Madara set that up, he in no way made Obito react the way that he did. That's on Obito, who with that type of reaction i'd label a weak person.

It's not even in the same way that it was for Naruto and Gaara, who were both actively ostracized to some extent. Obito's more like Iruka, just being a plain old run of the mill orphan. Gaara had people, his own father and uncle, trying to kill him. Naruto had people avoiding him and talking bad about him. They both had to wait many years to gain friends, due to the stigma around them. Obito didn't have anywhere near the same problems that they did. Gaara suffering a mental break made perfect sense, when the one person that he thought loved and cared for him actually tried to kill him and revealed that he'd always hated him. Obito again had Rin, Kakashi, Minato, the rest of the students in their graduating class, and i'm just going to assume Kushina met Minato's team a few times as well, plus the rest of his clan who clearly took care of him to some extent. Take into account that he, like the rest of his teammates, killed however many people during a world war, and him reacting in the way he did becomes even sillier. He's a ninja, a trained soldier, who has taken lives before, yet it never crossed his mind that Rin might die? Was that not one of the main plots of the Gaiden?


Obito is a crappier dark version of Naruto. His motive for turning on the entire world is again the death of one person. One person who he was not shown to be that close to. Outside of a crush, Obito didn't treat Rin any different than he did Kakashi. He didn't spend a lot of time with her, there's nothing to imply they were best friends. It would be like Naruto deciding to become a villain because Sakura died. That'd be dumb and we all know it. Gaara turning out the way he did because his uncle tried to kill him, again, makes sense, because Gaara's story his entire support system and world was written to revolve around his uncle. Obito's story wasn't like that, just like Naruto's wasn't. Hell, Sasuke's story was more like that than Obito's, and it took years for him to fall into the darkness. Obito completely fell in on himself when Rin died. Said it time and again, a very easy way to make his reason more plausible, and for Kishi to show that he'd planned that plot threat out from the start, would've simply been to have Rin and Obito spend more time together.

I don't mind anyone not necessarily hating Obito for what he did and why, but I think everyone should be able to admit that Kishi didn't do a good job fleshing out his reasons. And we all need to understand why fans want Obito to be written well, because his story arc dragged on for so long, and because he was arguably being built up as the final villain, and even now may be deserving of that status in a shared role with Madara and Kaguya. Historically speaking, Obito's one of the most important characters in the series, but the way he was written was disappointing.


Ugh why are you people putting words in my mouth? At what point did I say anything about everyone expected tobi to be obito? As for his actions I have to admit they were extreme and I can understand why his character gets flak for that but as I've been trying to point out he went off the rails and was manipulated to an extent. I never said he was sane or anything but I do understand where his grife from the shinobi world comes from. Another thing to point out was that he was very young when all of these traumatic experiences started happening to him which helped inuenced his world view(with "help" from Madara) and even then he wasn't entirely convinced with his own actions which made his character even more tragic. His village treated him like a nobody, his clan..... Well I dont have an explanation for his beef with them but I'm guessing he wiped them out on Madara's instructions, as for his team he had a grudge again Minato and Kakashi for the whole Rin situation. She was his Hope Spot or rather his whole team was and they failed him in his eyes(minus Rin) along with the ninja system that brought about these senseless problems and thats where his descent started and how Madara was able to partially get into his head also that Uchiha curse wasnt helping things. It wasnt like he just woke up one day and decided to do it for the evulz which many people seem to think. He's a flawed character but not so bad that he was the cause of the mangas decline.

#16 OrangeMage

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 12:12 PM

I would rather have it be that when Obito saw Rin die, in his weakened mental state, Madara worked some Jutsu to overtake his mind. That would account for his sudden increase in skills and people mistaking Obito for Madara.   


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#17 Ace1225

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 12:20 PM

Ugh why are you people putting words in my mouth? At what point did I say anything about everyone expected tobi to be obito? As for his actions I have to admit they were extreme and I can understand why his character gets flak for that but as I've been trying to point out he went off the rails and was manipulated to an extent. I never said he was sane or anything but I do understand where his grife from the shinobi world comes from. Another thing to point out was that he was very young when all of these traumatic experiences started happening to him which helped inuenced his world view(with "help" from Madara) and even then he wasn't entirely convinced with his own actions which made his character even more tragic. His village treated him like a nobody, his clan..... Well I dont have an explanation for his beef with them but I'm guessing he wiped them out on Madara's instructions, as for his team he had a grudge again Minato and Kakashi for the whole Rin situation. She was his Hope Spot or rather his whole team was and they failed him in his eyes(minus Rin) along with the ninja system that brought about these senseless problems and thats where his descent started and how Madara was able to partially get into his head also that Uchiha curse wasnt helping things. It wasnt like he just woke up one day and decided to do it for the evulz which many people seem to think. He's a flawed character but not so bad that he was the cause of the mangas decline.
 

I didn't say you did, which is why that part was above your post, as in it wasn't a response to it.  :rolleyes:

 

At the time all of this happened, Obito was completely sane, and wasn't any worse off than anyone else. As I pointed out, he was young, but so was everyone else. So was Naruto, so was Kakashi, etc. His psychotic break coming from such a minor incident comes off as silly when you look at the gravity of the problems other people in the series are forced to face and overcome, along with just how far off the deep end Obito went. When did his village treat him like a nobody? What pages are there that showcase that? You shouldn't have to guess why he did what he did in regards to his clan, that should've been explained. Any grudge against Minato or Kakashi is then silly when you have him rant on and on about how he doesn't care about this world anymore, plus the fact that as a soldier, who has killed people himself, he should be able to understand that people are going to die in war

 

No one said he was the sole cause of the manga's decline. People said he was one of many, which as a badly written major villain he most certainly was. I doubt anyone here thinks he did what he did for the evulz. Similar to Sasuke, people understand why he did what he did and just didn't agree with it.


Edited by Ace1225, 17 May 2015 - 12:23 PM.

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I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


#18 Hellion

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 12:25 PM

Well he did put a seal on him if that helps lol. As for the increase in skills he was a late bloomer. Hard work beats genius remember plus he learned from Madara

#19 BoriketheBlackDragon

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 12:28 PM

Well he did put a seal on him if that helps lol. As for the increase in skills he was a late bloomer. Hard work beats genius remember plus he learned from Madara

Kishi shat on that aesop long ago.


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PRAISE OUR LORD AND SAVIOR!!!!


#20 waleuska

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 12:29 PM

Well he did put a seal on him if that helps lol. As for the increase in skills he was a late bloomer. Hard work beats genius remember plus he learned from Madara

What BBD said. Also lets not forget every genius in naruto work very hard as well.


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