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US 2016 Presidential Election (Part 2)


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#1 Oben

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 05:25 AM

Old Thread



This forum had that debate around the time of the 2013 government shutdown, shouldn't be too hard to find. Plenty of people gave their rundown as to why the ACA is profoundly terrible for America in the long-run.

Simply because a Republican approves of a certain legislation doesn't guarantee that it lines up with conservative ideology. The idea that government intrudes on any market sector to the extent Obamacare and infringes upon the liberty and property of its citizens is contrary to economic liberalism and the constitutionalist perspectives of most conservatives.

Romney, not Ryan, implemented a similar program in Massachusetts.



http://www.ontheissu...e_ _Poverty.htm
For all the bottom ones



Agree with rape and life of the mother, but if the baby can feel pain, you're killing a person
-I'm saying that once the nervous system develops then they technically can feel pain so DON'T do abortions after that. We somewhat agree. I just think the nervous system develops to that point a little after 20 weeks

Nothing, but he is addressing the black concerns , which are real.
-how is he addressing black concerns? The police thing...yeah kind of. I wish he would say more though. Entitlements? well I think we have a HUGE difference of opinion on that one but I can understand how you would think he would be addressing them.

Don't know the issues, but most likely education.
-Too obscure for my liking

Most likely the insant assumption that the white guy is racist.
-I don't think that's true of course but I'll agree to disagree. How would you stop something like that though. That's an inherent bias so what would Carson do to fix that.

There's no reason to recreationally use marijuana.
Come on Miss.J you know that isn't a reason why something should be illegal. The reason is because it makes people feel good and they like it and if that isn't good enough then why on earth would anything that has potential health harms be legal. Especially if it is something no more dangerous than legal things and can potentially provide revenue.

http://www.dailymail...g-students.html
http://nypost.com/20...t-school-rules/
These are slightly more extreme, but its a growing trend. Teaching PC in schools and ignoring facts.
-LMAO that's terrible. While I agree that these are silly it is not proof that schools are propaganda machines. I think we should focus on making kids more open and tolerant rather than trying to police language and I think that is crazy, but there is no evidence that this is pervasive in US schools. Loo.k I hate PCness too (though I'm sure we have different scales of it) I don't think it's THAT bad yet.

http://thefederalist...ut-common-core/
-Miss.J that's not proof, that's just an opinion piece. I personally don't care for common core math myself but I have no proof that it's worse. I need data, empirical evidence. Has the quality of schooling gone down? are less kids getting into college? Are we falling further in education nationally? Statistics and studies that answer those are proof.

  • School choice increases competitive nature of education. (Apr 2013)
If better schools = better jobs and better education = better schools, do the math.
-Ok yes that better schools = better education and increase the likelihood that you will get a better job but look at the statement. What does "school choice" mean? being able to go to whatever grade school you want (that would cause so many problems)? Adding more schools? what?
  • Obamacare is about restriction and control. (Feb 2015)
​how?
-Well just skip over Obamacare stuff

Bout to read that last link

One of the underlying issues I have with Carson is his ambiguity if you haven't noticed. He speaks on very abstract concepts but doesn't really do too much policy wise. The things he says about policy usually are damn near the antithesis of my own beliefs.

 
@Phenomiracle Where is that. I tried looking for it in the debate forum but I didn't see anything about Obamacare or the ACA. (might just be overlooking it)

 



It's because you didn't look in the Classics section :)

http://onemangaforum...ous-revolution/

http://onemangaforum...marijuanalegal/



Didn't even know that existed. Thanks @DarkNemesis

Oh man this is going to take a minute. @Phenomiracle you always have me reading so much. It's never something simple...but I suppose nuance and thought aren't supposed to be easy...

I've also decided to read through this http://obamacarefact...-pros-and-cons/



Great times bruh.


Bad source if you're going for objectivity.

Should peruse through multiple places to gain a solid understanding of what the ACA is.



whoops lol. didnt read your post thouroughly

 

 



#2 RhyssaFireheart

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 09:54 AM

@Ganderath - while I'm sure there was some relevant information contained in your post, a link dump with no context or commentary really doesn't count as debate.  Why don't you try again if you wish to respond to the thread.

 

Thanks.


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#3 DarkNemesis

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 09:26 PM

If anyone is wondering, the Republican Debate is currently on: http://www.foxbusine...nal-gop-debates

 

Streaming live, right now.


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#4 Phenomiracle

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:09 PM

Lol Donald Trump is for a progressive tax system, one which increases the tax rate the greater the taxable income.

From supporting the deportation of all residing illegals (which is tremendously fiscally irresponsible) to this, he's no conservative at all.

Otherwise, decently substantive material in this debate regarding tax reform, much more so than any debate in the past, Democrat or Republican.

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#5 DarkNemesis

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:17 PM

I've never been a fan of the flat tax rate. I feel it's unfair to low-wage earners or anyone in the poverty level. But having a flat tax rate with no payroll tax is interesting. Though, and correct me if I'm wrong, the payroll tax is SS and Medicare. So I don't see that being possible. But replacing the income tax with the flat tax is interesting. And Trump says a whole lot of nothing. I'm so glad Paul called him out just now on China and the TPP.


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#6 /2aw

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:23 PM

I just started watching during this foreign policy thing. Trump has an unhealthy obsession with China.

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#7 DarkNemesis

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:25 PM

I just started watching during this foreign policy thing. Trump has an unhealthy obsession with China.

 

His obsession with Russia is interesting as well.


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#8 /2aw

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:27 PM

Wait there are atrocities happening all over the world though. By Jeb's logic shouldn't we be involved like...all over the place? Doesn't Saudi Arabia do the same type of stuff? Aren't we friendly with them? I'm confused...

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#9 Phenomiracle

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:31 PM

Sure will be interesting to see how the next Democrat debate goes to match the fervor of this one. This has been the most substantive and interesting debate yet.

From candidates addressing policies and reforms in detail and differentiating from one another, to neoconservative/libertarian ideological clashes, to exposing poorly informed rhetoric (Rand's burn on Trump was glorious), this debate gave an excellent glimpse at the inner differences among the Republican candidates past the headlines.

Great discussion. Great moderating, too.

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#10 /2aw

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:35 PM

Rubio talks out his ass and I wish they would have asked some follow up there...But they did ask a good one to Rand (well what would you do specifically) after he gave a good rebuttal. So if most of this debate has been like that exchange (Paul's) then this has been good.

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#11 DarkNemesis

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:35 PM

The moderating has been very good.

 

Paul has been on fire. Paul for President! (if the democrats go batshit crazy, lol)


Edited by DarkNemesis, 10 November 2015 - 10:36 PM.

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#12 /2aw

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:45 PM

Random but we're all anime/manga livers here. I can't stop thinking weekly shonen jump when I see that WSJ in the background...alright back to serious matters. Well jeez Carson. You surprised me there. And here comes Rubio...

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#13 DarkNemesis

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:54 PM

Did Carson just support repealing the 14th amendment? For context, the comment about the US being a booming economy in 1876.

 

In particular, undoing corporations as people.

 

 

 

Careful, Kasich. You're close to promoting religious regulations on Wall Street.


 

Now Cruz is quoting Rand's father on the gold standard? Is he jockeying for VP?

 

 

.... I'm livetweeting the debate :lol:


 

Man, Kasich just f-d up with that bank bailout argument.


Edited by DarkNemesis, 10 November 2015 - 10:55 PM.

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#14 /2aw

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:02 PM

Yes he did. He may as well have just said yes....yes I would have another bail out.
 
IRAN'S NOT ON THE VERGE OF GETTING A NUCLEAR WEAPON OH MY GOSH!!!!

We aren't "giving" them any money either. That Iran talking point is getting really old.

Edited by /2aw, 10 November 2015 - 10:55 PM.

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#15 Phenomiracle

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:14 PM

Took the Republican Party years to return to its core principles, but at last, at long, long last,

Letting irresponsible financial institutional giants incur market repercussions instead of shifting the tremendous cost on the taxpayer and/or tapping the Federal Reserve for some cash is a viable political position to run on.

About. Fucking. Time.

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#16 DarkNemesis

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:17 PM

Ted Cruz is a funny guy. He says that amnesty is offensive to immigrants that come here legally. But Cruz's father is a beneficiary of political amnesty. So exactly what's the point?


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#17 /2aw

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:18 PM

@Phenomiracle you really think that from this debate? I ask because I really don't believe them honestly.

Edited by /2aw, 10 November 2015 - 11:19 PM.

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#18 Phenomiracle

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:25 PM

No less grounds to believe them than any of the Democrats (particularly Sanders) who espouse the same position.

The difference comes solely in perspective. Democrats view bailouts and asset relief as a slap in the face of the little guy (populist perspective), Republicans view bailouts as government overreach which works against the free market by redistributing the wealth of the middle class to the elite (liberal perspective).

Edited by Phenomiracle, 10 November 2015 - 11:26 PM.

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#19 Miss.J

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:27 PM

Fuggg fam that was actually a good debate that was both entertaining and useful. 

Got to give it to FOX for doing a great job.

 

And it looks like Rubio/Cruz is going to win this one. 

Trump is getting stumped, Kasich is a joke, bush is a joke, and who cares about carly or kasich.

 

If carson didnt spout so much christianity related things maybe he would be better of a candidate. 


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#20 waleuska

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:29 PM

Ted Cruz is a funny guy. He says that amnesty is offensive to immigrants that come here legally. But Cruz's father is a beneficiary of political amnesty. So exactly what's the point?

Republicans always do that. This is why i hate them. They benefit from the system and then says that it doesn't work.


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