Jump to content


Photo

[Discussion] Power Levels (Part 3)


  • Please log in to reply
477 replies to this topic

#1 Oben

Oben

    ♪~

  • Blessed by Uglypuff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,008 posts

User's Awards

         2   

Posted 23 April 2016 - 04:06 PM

Old Thread

 

op_ch_566__marco_vs_aokiji_by_arrancari.

Orig09 | Deviantart

 

Last few posts.

 

fujitora is stronger then zou. fight me.

 

 

Unless he has a limit on gravity control, sure.

 

 

Feat wise, Aokiji manhandled DD, Fuji might as well have given DD an action figure and tell him "go play with the other kids your age little boy". Sabo put up an actual fight with Fuji, and with less than an hour (?) with his fruit was portrayed as weaker than Fuji, but not much weaker, even forcing Fuji to use his signature move and going a bit serious.

 

Story wise, it's a shichibukai who's the first antagonist of the New world vs the second strongest in the Revos, brother of the main character, heir of the will of the pirate king's son, who will eventually have a huge role in the war to come.

 

Story wise Sabo »»»»»» DD. Feat wise, Sabo has no feat except fighting an admiral and manhandling a yonkou commander, but I'd say he has been portrayed as stronger than DD.


 

No one will fight you for that lol. 

 

 

Just a thought, but Ace vs. DD? To me, Sabo is Ace but with CoA.

 

 

 

 

 

Any Yonkiral would decimate Zou, no need to fight you on this.

 

Close the thread.  :unsure:

 

 


 



#2 Shichibukai Ace

Shichibukai Ace

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 977 posts
  • LocationOutlaw's Summit.

Posted 23 April 2016 - 04:10 PM

Didn't realize pages 26/27 of the old thread were so in depth. 

 

Was going to comment on the topic at hand but instead I'm just going to leave the debate between Kidd and Fulmine between those two. Great read from both, excellent points and counter points from either side, with supporting evidence and panels (as well Kidd/Fulmine adding their personalities to the posts as well.) Strobacaxi also threw his hat in there for a moment as well

 

10/10 would read through the debate again (if it didn't take so long lol)

 

I encourage anyone who hasn't to check it out, great show from you all. I see a new thread has been started, the juicy parts were in the old thread, pages 26 and 27

 

For what it's worth, DD would beat Enel through experience/Haki. I think Goro Goro may be a better overall DF than Ito, but both are top rate.... Tough call, but DD has CoA and CoC. I feel he could use his mastery of those techs to win the fight. 

 

And if Enel blows up the island, DD could fly up to the clouds and re position himself. However once Enel gets two or three decent el Thors to connect, he may put DD in a disadvantageous state, and potentially win the fight. 

 

Enel would need to catch DD slipping up, to win. But he could win it faster than DD, who would probably spend more time chipping away at Enel bit by bit. And I'd imagine Enel would probably be more elusive, seeing as Lightning should be among the top 5 fastest things in the One Piece universe


Edited by Shichibukai Ace, 23 April 2016 - 04:21 PM.

Spoiler

#3 retroluffy13

retroluffy13

    Keeper of the Beasts

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,873 posts

Posted 23 April 2016 - 06:32 PM

zou can take fujitora. :3
  • Shichibukai Ace likes this

 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

Spoiler


also some ear kandy
Spoiler

when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.


#4 Shichibukai Ace

Shichibukai Ace

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 977 posts
  • LocationOutlaw's Summit.

Posted 23 April 2016 - 07:01 PM

^^^ what you just said there makes me wonder....

 

Where do we rank tandems? I.E. Momo/Zou (Momo commands Zou) and Sea Kings/Shirahoshi

 

Both are weak commanders who wield island busting command capability. Being able to control Sea Kings to the point of pulling Noah, and commanding Zou to one shot a Yonkou right hand....

 

These are impressive feats. What I like the most is how it's a nice twist, having weak Momo/Shirahoshi actually being inheritors of Ancient Weapons. Luffy will guide them, but for all intents and purpose, if Luffy guides them and they go on to become powerhouses, where should we rank them?

 

Like, could you imagine Momo going rogue and using Zou to crush Marinford? 


Spoiler

#5 retroluffy13

retroluffy13

    Keeper of the Beasts

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,873 posts

Posted 23 April 2016 - 07:59 PM

^^^ what you just said there makes me wonder....
 
Where do we rank tandems? I.E. Momo/Zou (Momo commands Zou) and Sea Kings/Shirahoshi
 
Both are weak commanders who wield island busting command capability. Being able to control Sea Kings to the point of pulling Noah, and commanding Zou to one shot a Yonkou right hand....
 
These are impressive feats. What I like the most is how it's a nice twist, having weak Momo/Shirahoshi actually being inheritors of Ancient Weapons. Luffy will guide them, but for all intents and purpose, if Luffy guides them and they go on to become powerhouses, where should we rank them?
 
Like, could you imagine Momo going rogue and using Zou to crush Marinford?

the sea kings are definitely more useful. there are almost literally infinite seakings while theres only one zou. zou may be bigger then them and stuffs but if onepiece has taught us nothing, theres true strength in numbers.

so shirahoshi is stronger.

but if were talking one of them vs other people in onepiece? hm.... momo cold probably take marineford. all things considered, people like shirahoshi and momo are probably yoko tier at least. I not on par with a yonko crew all on their own. I momo got a year of practice ordering zou around he cold robably take the entire whitebeard crew. whitebeard included.

Edited by retroluffy13, 23 April 2016 - 07:59 PM.

 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

Spoiler


also some ear kandy
Spoiler

when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.


#6 Red Opus

Red Opus

    Ghost

  • Blessed by Uglypuff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,279 posts

User's Awards

5    3   

Posted 23 April 2016 - 08:27 PM

the sea kings are definitely more useful. there are almost literally infinite seakings while theres only one zou. zou may be bigger then them and stuffs but if onepiece has taught us nothing, theres true strength in numbers.so shirahoshi is stronger.but if were talking one of them vs other people in onepiece? hm.... momo cold probably take marineford. all things considered, people like shirahoshi and momo are probably yoko tier at least. I not on par with a yonko crew all on their own. I momo got a year of practice ordering zou around he cold robably take the entire whitebeard crew. whitebeard included.


at sea, yea they would have no where to run, but if zou was on land I can't even say zou can take on zoro on land =_=

#7 retroluffy13

retroluffy13

    Keeper of the Beasts

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,873 posts

Posted 23 April 2016 - 08:38 PM

at sea, yea they would have no where to run, but if zou was on land I can't even say zou can take on zoro on land =_=

zou could squish marineford and give the marines nowhere to go but to sea.

 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

Spoiler


also some ear kandy
Spoiler

when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.


#8 Shichibukai Ace

Shichibukai Ace

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 977 posts
  • LocationOutlaw's Summit.

Posted 23 April 2016 - 08:43 PM

Great response, agree with just about everything. Especially strength in numbers, that truly is a point that we've seen made as consistent: numbers mean a ton in One Piece. 

 

@retro...


Edited by Shichibukai Ace, 23 April 2016 - 08:45 PM.

Spoiler

#9 Red Opus

Red Opus

    Ghost

  • Blessed by Uglypuff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,279 posts

User's Awards

5    3   

Posted 23 April 2016 - 08:53 PM

zou could squish marineford and give the marines nowhere to go but to sea.


i disagree, if we replace the whitebeard pirates with zou instead, with its massive size people like akainu and Aokiji would go to town.......I mean lol its not like Jack was speedblitzed

#10 Shichibukai Ace

Shichibukai Ace

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 977 posts
  • LocationOutlaw's Summit.

Posted 23 April 2016 - 08:53 PM

As for Zou, it's a tough call.... an Elephant should have lots of defense points... but Jack almost sank Zou with ships. Zou has probably taken a huge nerf since its dominance in Ancient times. 

 

Real talk, Zou should be an Ancient Weapon or at least on their scale. We're talking a behemoth with an entire civilization on its back, so it should be capable of lots of mass destruction feats. 

 

Current Zou..... I feel current Zou is in a weird spot. Because ships are capable of taking it out... but to be completely fair, Zou was a mindless drone at the time of the attack, only able to reach out to its commander. So Momo commanding Zou would be able to move Zou out of harms way quicker than ships can attack its legs.

 

However, I can't help but feel someone like Mihawk could do massive damage with his glacier slicing tech. 

 

This is a really tough call. I want to say Momo controlling Zou does put him in contention with the strongest entities in One Piece (entities meaning factions, armies, 1v1 powerhouses, etc) but I don't want to start thinking Zou could tank Mihawk glacier slice storms 


Edited by Shichibukai Ace, 23 April 2016 - 08:54 PM.

Spoiler

#11 retroluffy13

retroluffy13

    Keeper of the Beasts

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,873 posts

Posted 23 April 2016 - 09:04 PM

i disagree, if we replace the whitebeard pirates with zou instead, with its massive size people like akainu and Aokiji would go to town.......I mean lol its not like Jack was speedblitzed

he was actually. once momo gave the order zou hit him in literally a few panels afterwards. that's whitebeard level strength at least, not even cunting the fact the elephant has four legs, only two of which the elephant needs to stand.

 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

Spoiler


also some ear kandy
Spoiler

when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.


#12 Fulmine

Fulmine

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,160 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 03:52 AM


Physical stats are vastly superior

Since when Sabo is physically better than Ace?

 

 

 

 

 

 


Aokiji manhandled DD

Except that he didn't. I have explained how not fighting Aokiji is not a sign of being weaker. It's just knowing what better to do.

 

 

 


Sabo put up an actual fight with Fuji, and with less than an hour (?) with his fruit was portrayed as weaker than Fuji, but not much weaker, even forcing Fuji to use his signature move and going a bit serious.

Less than an hour? Inflating, aren't you? An hour is the time BC takes to close off and don't forget near then end DD even sped it up and yet when DD lost to Luffy, the BC still hasn't even closed up to anywhere near what we could call a point. Ergo the whole ordeal is already not even an hour and Sabo vs Fuji is like a small period during the whole of that. I could settle for 10 minutes.

 

And during that time Sabo is just like Marco and Jozu: hold their own but clearly inferior (Fuji is like perfectly well whereas Sabo was breathing heavily and had many scratches). DD never got that treatment and his feats alone put him above Marco and Jozu.

 

Mera is portrayed as weaker when? You mean Sabo is weaker than Fuji?

 

Since when is that his signature move? More like his only named technique so far. And even if it is, signature move =/= strong move. Ace's epithet is Fire Fist and we can see that he has other strong techniques like Hibashira or Entei or the one vs Aokiji. I'm not sure why Fuji's using that is > his meteors rain which does much more damage and DD sliced them like tofu

 

 

 

 


Story wise, it's a shichibukai who's the first antagonist of the New world vs the second strongest in the Revos, brother of the main character, heir of the will of the pirate king's son, who will eventually have a huge role in the war to come.



Story wise Sabo »»»»»» DD.

First antagonist is Caesar. But that aside, I don't see how these things matter. Shichibukai and Revo aren't in the same system so there's no order for that. Brother of the main character? Heir of Ace's will? So? What does that have to do with power level? At least ''second strongest of Revo'' is a power level-related hype.

 

Huge role in the war to come? Evidence? What if he died before that? What if his role is Ace no.2 aka prisoner? In Paradise at least Crocodile came back and fought in MF.

 

And way to ignore DD's role. The guy is the biggest underworld broker, holding rein to a bunch of monsters, former Tenryuubito, knowing the National Treasure of Mariejoa. See, I can also list non-related stuffs

 

 

 

 


Feat wise, Sabo has no feat except fighting an admiral and manhandling a yonkou commander, but I'd say he has been portrayed as stronger than DD.

DD let Aokiji hit him. The one and only guy in the whole manga until now who knows perfectly what level an Admiral is in and yet actively leave his back wide open to get a hit and then escaped (easily?), besides Marco, that is, but we all know why Marco can afford that (his fruit!). He also kicked Fuji in the face LOL If you wanna talk portrayal, DD is wayyyy better and cheekier than Sabo.

 

DD also shit on Buffalo and Jozu, WB Commanders, also Oars. And Jozu is at least confirmed one of the strongest Commanders. Burgess? Nope! Inb4 ''First Fleet captain''. Sorry, that doesn't tell power level at all.


Edited by Fulmine, 24 April 2016 - 03:52 AM.

  • MattC302 likes this

Spoiler Favorite male characters in manga/hwa/hua

#13 Madara D Dragon

Madara D Dragon

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,206 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:55 AM

I still don't get why people keep on taking as a given Momo can control Zou... Shirahoshi can control seakings. Momo can give permission to Zou to do something, Zou doesn't do what he asks...

"You can't take the King Marco_by_Kanomaru.gifon your first turn!!"

         FoundeothTrafalgaLafan-clu-----> :aww: 


#14 proteinpancake

proteinpancake

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 28 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 05:40 AM

The thing with DD is that he got so much experiencie under his belt and with awakening he can be a great close and longe range fighter. 

The problem with Sabo its the same i have with non-df users (at least till eh got the mera mera no mi). If you dont have a DF, then the only thing i can see them doing is like having super mega extra speed and haki to the point where almost no one can keep up with them and endure with their physical attacks. 

Marco, on the other hand, has a great fruit, but when he attacks i dont see any destructive power. Lets hope he got nerfed during the war and that he got some type of beast haki i guess..



#15 Chillman

Chillman

    Shinigami

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,495 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 05:47 AM

Kyros was gimped in every way but managed to be a badass. As much as people trash Burgess compared to the big players he is pretty strong.

#16 Sev

Sev

    Warrior

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,099 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 06:09 AM

I still don't get why people keep on taking as a given Momo can control Zou... Shirahoshi can control seakings. Momo can give permission to Zou to do something, Zou doesn't do what he asks...

 

Mostly because he's staying behind to talk to it which is a promise of some kind of development, also because he was able to see through Zunisha's eyes. So people expect that after spending more time talking with it that Momo will eventually have some kind of control of Zunisha's actions.


  • Chillman likes this

#17 Strobacaxi

Strobacaxi

    Crack Monkey

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,472 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 07:12 AM


Except that he didn't. I have explained how not fighting Aokiji is not a sign of being weaker. It's just knowing what better to do.

 

Allowing the marines to know what he was up to is not the best way. What do you think was going to happen if Luffy hadn't interfered in DR? Fuji was there for a reason, and it wasn't just Luffy/Law. He was to investigate DD, that's why an admiral was sent linke Aokiji asked. Had Luffy not gone there, and Fuji would've taken DD's Shichi title away and arrested him. DD clearly wanted to kill smoker. He failed, because Aokiji didn't let him. He had two choices: Risk everything and leave right there without trying to kill smoker, or try to beat aokiji and kill smoker and remain with the exact same status as before PH. He chose to risk everything he had worked for in the last 10 years.

 


Less than an hour? Inflating, aren't you? An hour is the time BC takes to close off and don't forget near then end DD even sped it up and yet when DD lost to Luffy, the BC still hasn't even closed up to anywhere near what we could call a point. Ergo the whole ordeal is already not even an hour and Sabo vs Fuji is like a small period during the whole of that. I could settle for 10 minutes.
 
And during that time Sabo is just like Marco and Jozu: hold their own but clearly inferior (Fuji is like perfectly well whereas Sabo was breathing heavily and had many scratches). DD never got that treatment and his feats alone put him above Marco and Jozu.
 
Mera is portrayed as weaker when? You mean Sabo is weaker than Fuji?
 
Since when is that his signature move? More like his only named technique so far. And even if it is, signature move =/= strong move. Ace's epithet is Fire Fist and we can see that he has other strong techniques like Hibashira or Entei or the one vs Aokiji. I'm not sure why Fuji's using that is > his meteors rain which does much more damage and DD sliced them like tofu

 

Ahah you got this entire part wrong :D

 

Less than an hour as in Sabo had the fruit for less than an hour, and looked weaker but not much weaker was me comparing Sabo and Fuji.

Let's face it... A yonkou says DD is "too damn weak". Marco is the final step for BB to become a yonkou. See the difference? DD is not »»» Sabo or Jozu.

And if we're talking about the fight... DD was panting after 1 second with Aokiji. Sabo had a few minor bruises and was breathing heavily after about 10 minutes with Fuji.

 

It's his signature move because it's his marine nickname. Just like Akainu's red dog, and Aokiji's Blue pheasant. Not their strongest moves, but also not a basic unnamed attack, like the one Aokiji used on DD.

 

The meteor shower would destroy DressRosa, and was completely useless against a logia.

 


First antagonist is Caesar. But that aside, I don't see how these things matter. Shichibukai and Revo aren't in the same system so there's no order for that. Brother of the main character? Heir of Ace's will? So? What does that have to do with power level? At least ''second strongest of Revo'' is a power level-related hype.

MC brother and heir of Ace's will has nothing to do with power level. It has to do with his importance to the story and with the hype he's constantly getting. Being of the same family as Luffy is the single biggest hype we have in OP except maybe Yonkous and Admirals. I mean, Garp, Dragon, Luffy, Ace...

 


Huge role in the war to come? Evidence? What if he died before that? What if his role is Ace no.2 aka prisoner? In Paradise at least Crocodile came back and fought in MF.

And crocodile was like an ant in the war. an ant who happens to have a very good timing in slowing down people for half a second.

He's the RA's second in command, he will have an important role. I don't need evidence to say Akainu will have an important role too, do I?

 


And way to ignore DD's role. The guy is the biggest underworld broker, holding rein to a bunch of monsters, former Tenryuubito, knowing the National Treasure of Mariejoa. See, I can also list non-related stuffs

 

None of that hypes him at all. Having knowledge because he was a CD is not hype. Being a member of the strongest family in the world is. Being the older brother (AKA protector) of the main character is hype.

 


DD let Aokiji hit him. The one and only guy in the whole manga until now who knows perfectly what level an Admiral is in and yet actively leave his back wide open to get a hit and then escaped (easily?), besides Marco, that is, but we all know why Marco can afford that (his fruit!). He also kicked Fuji in the face LOL If you wanna talk portrayal, DD is wayyyy better and cheekier than Sabo.

He knew the admirals personally. I guarantee if that was Akainu DD would not turn his back. He knew Aokiji wouldn't hurt him. He's the lazy guy, he doesn't give a fuck as long as his friend is safe.

 

I think the main point of this part of your post is "leave his back open to get a hit", but you forgot the part where he failed miserably and had to come up with a back up plan that would never actually work if Luffy and Law hadn't gone to DR.

 

Also, he didn't kick Fuji in the face, he tried to, and failed miserably. Hell I think Fuji put more effort on blocking Zoro's air slash than DD's kick. And was then completely ignored (again) and told to keep calm.

By that line of thought, Sabo kicked and punched Fuji several times, is he waaaayyyy better and cheekier than DD? Oh, so did Luffy, is he too?

 


DD also shit on Buffalo and Jozu, WB Commanders, also Oars. And Jozu is at least confirmed one of the strongest Commanders. Burgess? Nope! Inb4 ''First Fleet captain''. Sorry, that doesn't tell power level at all.

Buffalo?

There is no evidence of Jozu trying to break free. There is only DD attacking him from behind and Jozu stopping. Nothing else. Oars got beaten by Moria too lol.


tumblr_mg4t7olJvZ1s2x1ggo1_500.png


#18 Madara D Dragon

Madara D Dragon

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,206 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 07:18 AM

Mostly because he's staying behind to talk to it which is a promise of some kind of development, also because he was able to see through Zunisha's eyes. So people expect that after spending more time talking with it that Momo will eventually have some kind of control of Zunisha's actions.

I appreciate your answer, honestly, but It was kind of a rhetorical question  :P

 

But still, since when some kind of development means getting to control him? I think the most clear development there (as stated by Momo) is they get to talk and Momo gets some info. That's all. I'm not saying Momo controlling Zou isn't possible, but it's not even as likely as people seem to imply it is (I mean, wouldn't that make something so epic as an ancient weapon kind of... not so special?), It's not a fact yet, and people keep on talking as if Momo could already control Zou, when he only gave him permission to do whatever Zou wanted... 

 

I don't know, in this kinda situations I'm more of a "Stay to the facts" man (It seems Fulmine has made it into my head little by little...).

 

You can speculate about it, but it's nowhere a given :shrug:  


"You can't take the King Marco_by_Kanomaru.gifon your first turn!!"

         FoundeothTrafalgaLafan-clu-----> :aww: 


#19 Fulmine

Fulmine

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,160 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 09:22 AM


wouldn't that make something so epic as an ancient weapon kind of... not so special?

2 in a big world like One Piece is still very special. But yeah, not absolutely unique anymore

 


(It seems Fulmine has made it into my head little by little...).

And one day when you're enlightened by Enel-sama... :meditate:


Spoiler Favorite male characters in manga/hwa/hua

#20 Madara D Dragon

Madara D Dragon

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,206 posts

Posted 24 April 2016 - 10:31 AM

And one day when you're enlightened by Enel-sama... :meditate:

 

I've said it a lot of times, I actually like Enel as a character, and his powers, and I also admit he has an incredible potential, I just don't agree with the power level some people put him in  :D

 

But I sure as hell will enjoy his comeback, and wish Oda makes a good use of it  :D

 

 

 

And later on he can make someone weak beat him for his real power level to be set... :heehee: 


"You can't take the King Marco_by_Kanomaru.gifon your first turn!!"

         FoundeothTrafalgaLafan-clu-----> :aww: 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users