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ToG: Webtoon Chapter Discussion Thread - Part 4

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#281 Groundking

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 11:55 AM

I just found out from one of the blog posts that SIU confirmed there would be special exams on other Floors that let prominent Regulars to go up faster. But yeah, even with that I think ToG will still be very long. Not that I mind, really. Hopefully SIU would use that time wisely to improve his writing. As of now I think ToG is only at entertaining level but not quite good writing level.

 

I don't know, I think the writing is good, there's a lot of stuff going on and constantly there's things that's fed into the story and built up up until a pay off, like this Hell Floor arc is going to be. I do think he needs to slow Bam's growth a touch though, it's getting ridiculous, he pretty much owns everybody now at this 'floor level'. The underlying themes of the webtoon are fantastic.


Edited by Groundking, 10 January 2017 - 11:57 AM.

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#282 DarkNemesis

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:25 PM

Well he has the equivalent of a Floor-destroying nuke. So yeah, Baam's power level needs to stay stagnant for a bit. Work on some skills, some inner spiritual control or something.

Kubo's announcement will be his new work will be called Tide; not as strong as bleach but does its trolling in a more colorful fashion! - arcane_chaos

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#283 Luffy_PK

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 03:27 PM

Yeah I agree, his shinsu control is at a crazy point at the moment. He has been getting non stop power ups over the past few arcs so I guess the Floor of Death should be where they really get put on display. Although considering that this is where they found Bams thorn fragment, I think it's likely that he'll get another MAJOR power up at the end of this arc, by gaining another fragment. Either way, I think the world-building and general premise are brilliant.
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#284 DarkNemesis

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 03:33 PM

Wangnan getting the other piece of the Thorn would be interesting. Especially if he sides with Karaka.

 

Why does Karaka hate Baam (or wants him dead) again? Is it just because of the Thorn?


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#285 Luffy_PK

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 06:52 PM

I'm guessing it's because he sees him as a threat. Although it's also partially because they feel he's too soft I think. I can't remember exactly. But I know that the FUG Elders are split about Bam. Grace Mirchea Luslec and Jinsung Ha etc support Bam, whilst Karakas faction represents the opposing side. Not sure how the other Slayers feel....

#286 Fulmine

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:55 AM


I don't know, I think the writing is good, there's a lot of stuff going on and constantly there's things that's fed into the story and built up up until a pay off, like this Hell Floor arc is going to be.

Oh, it's good. But I mean good good. Like One Piece good or higher like FMA good. Basically ToG's current writing doesn't do its world-building and potential justice. It's like giving A+ ingredients to a normal chef and if his skills are acceptable the dish would be good, but not 3-star Michellin by any means and the ingredients should become 3-star Michellin dish. Hope that comparison helps.


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#287 DarkNemesis

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 02:08 PM

The beginning of season 2 dragged a bit. But it certainly has picked up story-wise since then.

Kubo's announcement will be his new work will be called Tide; not as strong as bleach but does its trolling in a more colorful fashion! - arcane_chaos

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#288 Urek Mazino

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 02:07 AM

S2Ch233: http://www.webtoons....&episode_no=314


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#289 Red Haired Shanks

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 10:34 AM

Oh, it's good. But I mean good good. Like One Piece good or higher like FMA good. Basically ToG's current writing doesn't do its world-building and potential justice. It's like giving A+ ingredients to a normal chef and if his skills are acceptable the dish would be good, but not 3-star Michellin by any means and the ingredients should become 3-star Michellin dish. Hope that comparison helps.

 

I kind of agree. I see ToG as the One Piece of Korea.

Both authors try to create a vast universe, a vast magical world full of wonders, with a great number of characters and different layers, but they can't quite deliver.

And to a point I can't blame them totally for that. You have to be a really special talent to pull something like that off.

 

I like their ambition and this is what makes both comics so appealing and popular, but on the other hand this makes their short comings magnified.

 

I find both comics mediocre to be honest. And not only story telling wise.

 

The complete inability of SIU and ODA to make good fight scenes is appalling.

And damn it, to get better at this can't be that difficult!


Edited by Red Haired Shanks, 20 January 2017 - 07:37 AM.

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#290 DarkNemesis

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 12:53 PM

ToG is good in my opinion. Not the greatest thing ever, but good. Plus, the fights are well done. What fights are you (@Red Haired Shanks) and @Fulmine thinking of when it comes to good (or even great) fight scenes?

Kubo's announcement will be his new work will be called Tide; not as strong as bleach but does its trolling in a more colorful fashion! - arcane_chaos

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#291 Kaidou

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 08:31 PM

World Building, Story and Characters > fighting

 

Thats why i don't consider One Piece "mediocre". ToG has its other problems like the pacing(OP is guilty of this aswell but not as bad) but i still enjoy ToG abit, just prefer if it focused less on Baam and his constant powerups, feels like is leaving the other characters behind( Rak :(  ).


Edited by Kaidou, 18 January 2017 - 08:31 PM.


#292 Red Haired Shanks

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 08:43 PM

ToG is good in my opinion. Not the greatest thing ever, but good. Plus, the fights are well done. What fights are you (@Red Haired Shanks) and @Fulmine thinking of when it comes to good (or even great) fight scenes?

Noblesse, to name one of your favourites has pretty decent fight scenes for example.

A little bit repetitive these days, but you can clearly see the moves of the opponents and the physical action is well demonstrated.

 

Speed, agility, physical attacks. Of course many times you'll have the opponents drawn still  in one panel and by drawing many lines you will imply that they have exchanged a barrage of attacks,

like some panels in Frankenstein's fight with that Blond werewolf, or you'll see some swordsman pulling off an attack with a weird name

that would have some weird shape (dragon, or water stream for example) now and then, but in those two comics this is how fights are drawn 90% of the time.

 

Can you call the fight between Karaka and Yuri good? Or the fights of Baam? There are only a couple  of fight scenes I have liked.

Like the ones in the first arc where he was reintroduced as Viole. Or the first fight ever of Anak's team.

 

My golden standard for great fight scenes is Battle Angel Alita!

Vinland Saga, Berserk, or even less battle oriented mangas like Parasyte are also very good at that front.

 

Of course the same goes without saying for the majority of martial arts mangas.

 

But there are even fantasy action mangas not very dissimilar to One Piece and ToG that have tremendously inspired and creative fight scenes.

I am talking about JoJo's Bizarre Adventures.


 

World Building, Story and Characters > fighting

 

Thats why i don't consider One Piece "mediocre". ToG has its other problems like the pacing(OP is guilty of this aswell but not as bad) but i still enjoy ToG abit, just prefer if it focused less on Baam and his constant powerups, feels like is leaving the other characters behind( Rak :(  ).

I agree but you can have both and there are manga that have both.

 

I mentioned a couple of them above.

 

Also the characters and storytelling are mediocre, you can even call them bad, in both ToG and OP.

I just like some of them, like Sanji or Shanks, or Baam and I also like many bits and parts of both manga, be it arcs, scenes, or ideas.

Skypiea arc for example is one of my favourites because I like the dream-like sky world Oda created.

 

I like both comics, but can't rate them high, when there are manga that can stand equally with real literature and have the vibe of art-house films.


Edited by Red Haired Shanks, 18 January 2017 - 08:46 PM.

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#293 Fulmine

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 07:36 AM

I kind of agree. I see ToG as the One Piece of Korea.

Both authors try to create a vast universe, a vast magical world full of wonders, with a great number of characters and different layers, but they can't quite deliver.

And to a point I can't blame them totally for that. You have to be a really special talent to pull something like that off.

 

I like their ambition and this is what make both comics so appealing and popular, but on the other hand this makes their short comings magnified.

 

I find both comics mediocre to be honest. And not only story telling wise.

 

The complete inability of SIU and ODA to make good fight scenes is appalling.

And damn it, to get better at this can't be that difficult!

Yeah, exactly. I touched on this when I finished Name Hunt arc few pages ago. Though I'm not sure if our dissatisfaction is similar


And frankly it's arc like this that SIU's prowess/plan comes into question. Is he purposefully making it this way or he just couldn't manage a more impactful execution? Name Hunt has great ingredients but SIU never pushed the idea of slave any further than merely introducing them and saying it's bad and okay, maybe we can say that's not the idea of this arc but then at least the way Baam got Elaine to reconsider her situation should be handled better but it is terribly underwhelming. For someone who stuck a millenia in a place she is awfully easy to persuade by Baam's shoddy words. It's not like SIU's art's level helps in expressing characters either. I suppose it's great to progress and not spending years like reading One Piece arcs but...whew...ToG has to offer more than this since the world building is already super good. Some call it One Piece of webtoon world and I find that extremely fitting not only because of their status in their respective mediums but also because ToG is like One Piece in its story, too: Awesome world, shounen action, lots of potential to explore about human and whatnot. Only that Oda did achieve masterpiece-ness with One Piece, even if not often (and he slipped since after Fishmen Island and just recovered recently), whereas ToG has always stayed at entertaining-only level.

 

 


My golden standard for great fight scenes is Battle Angel Alita!
Vinland Saga, Berserk, or even less battle oriented mangas like Parasyte are also very good at that front.


Of course the same goes without saying for the majority of martial arts mangas.


But there are even fantasy action mangas not very dissimilar to One Piece and ToG that have tremendously inspired and creative fight scenes.
I am talking about JoJo's Bizarre Adventures.

Haven't read any of those (heard about them though, of course) but I can vote Blade of the Immortal for good fights. Goodness, that series' perspective and choreography is God-like

 

 

Teppuu or Holyland is really good.

 

 

Yep! And the poses :lolxg:

 

 

 

ToG is good in my opinion. Not the greatest thing ever, but good.

 

Plus, the fights are well done.

 

What fights are you (@Red Haired Shanks) and @Fulmine thinking of when it comes to good (or even great) fight scenes?

That's about it, haha

 

For a webtoon. The strip format makes the fights flow pretty badly compared to traditional manga's panel arrangemen and then the low-level of art due to the nature of the medium doesn't help (since webtoon are like youtube videos, anyone can make them no matter how amateur whereas manga is like movie/TV drama, they can be bad but to be published/broadcasted they have to be done properly (unless you're Togashi LOL)), at least for me. But then again, as years go by I get much more used to it so maybe in the future I will find it as good as manga, who knows. And perhaps it's not the medium's fault and I simply haven't come across a good enough choreographer in my webtoon experience (I haven't read Noblesse so hopefully what Red Haired Shanks said is true when I read it. I know it's one of webtoon's biggest name but it's even longer than ToG so I am kinda lazy). That said, SIU's art needs to be better, too. I wouldn't expect Kubo's level but like 50% better than now

 

Yuri vs Karaka. And that's it! I find other fights either unclearly drawn (not as bad as D.gray-man's, mind you) or kinda fragmented. It doesn't feel continuous (the flow I mentioned above). Stuffs like Ichigo vs Byakuya are basically a dream for ToG...

 

 

 

World Building, Story and Characters > fighting

 

Thats why i don't consider One Piece "mediocre". ToG has its other problems like the pacing(OP is guilty of this aswell but not as bad) but i still enjoy ToG abit, just prefer if it focused less on Baam and his constant powerups, feels like is leaving the other characters behind( Rak :(  ).

@Red Haired Shanks only mentioned fighting as an example of things he finds mediocre besides story-telling. He didn't say he rates ToG mediocre because of the fighting aspect only (maybe you're mistaking him to captain kidd LOL).

 

And just saying, generally whenever someone uses the ''That is not as important as story and characters'' reason I always am perplexed. Unless you mean you actually give no fuck about fighting, why not have both? It's like choosing girlfriend/lover/wife/husband/significant other. Sure, one should not be shallow and should care about personality and character but why not have someone both good and pretty (assuming you can manage)? 10/10 is still better than 9/10. That is a poor excuse for not being able to score that final point.

 

And I agree with RHS, it's not like One Piece is even at 9/10. I don't think of it as bad as he does but comparing One Piece's writing to say, Blade of the Immortal or Eden or FMA's is just LOL. The only way to go around that is to throw the ''subjective'' card.


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#294 Red Haired Shanks

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 08:45 AM

Yeah, exactly. I touched on this when I finished Name Hunt arc few pages ago. Though I'm not sure if our dissatisfaction is similar


I hadn't read your post before, but it really showcases SIU's shortcomings.
The setting of this arc was huge and the scale in which he built Elaine and this station but his writing couldn't match his original ideas and plans.
 

Haven't read any of those (heard about them though, of course) but I can vote Blade of the Immortal for good fights. Goodness, that series' perspective and choreography is God-like
 
 
Teppuu or Holyland is really good.
 
 
Yep! And the poses :lolxg:


I love BotI's fight scenes too.

 

In fact, when I was writing my post, I initially wrote that my golden standard is B. A. Alita: Last Order and Blade of the Immortal,
but I messed up while editing it.

When I am thiniking of a really good fight scene I think of the fight of Anotsu's uncle/mentor against that bald guy.
What a fight! The angles of the drawing, the creativity, the battle progression, the artwork!

A masterpiece!! And the manga is full of scenes like that! Completely stacked!

In Battle Angel Alita's sequel, there are many great fight scenes as well. In fact I think the manga has fights like that from its very start, like the one between
Alita and one of her clones Sechs! The motions, and the movements of their body in the space, the mind games. On completely different level than anything you can
see in ToG and OP.

Putting these manga aside there are even some current action shounen with very good battles.
Like Boku no Hero Academia, which personally I don't like that much and I don't exactly follow it, but
its fights are top notch! Creative, inspired and well drawn!
 

That's about it, haha
 
For a webtoon. The strip format makes the fights flow pretty badly compared to traditional manga's panel arrangemen and then the low-level of art due to the nature of the medium doesn't help (since webtoon are like youtube videos, anyone can make them no matter how amateur whereas manga is like movie/TV drama, they can be bad but to be published/broadcasted they have to be done properly (unless you're Togashi LOL)), at least for me. But then again, as years go by I get much more used to it so maybe in the future I will find it as good as manga, who knows. And perhaps it's not the medium's fault and I simply haven't come across a good enough choreographer in my webtoon experience (I haven't read Noblesse so hopefully what Red Haired Shanks said is true when I read it. I know it's one of webtoon's biggest name but it's even longer than ToG so I am kinda lazy). That said, SIU's art needs to be better, too. I wouldn't expect Kubo's level but like 50% better than now
 
Yuri vs Karaka. And that's it! I find other fights either unclearly drawn (not as bad as D.gray-man's, mind you) or kinda fragmented. It doesn't feel continuous (the flow I mentioned above). Stuffs like Ichigo vs Byakuya are basically a dream for ToG...


Didn't think about that. Maybe the webtoon format is indeed inherently limited. I don't know much about the creation process of either manga or webtoons to be honest.

I know webtoons with very good artwork and fights though, like Noblesse and Gosu.

Don't get imitated by Noblesse's length. It's only about action. The dialogue is very easy to read and fun and
the plot is really straightforward and simplistic. Every arc is built the same way and the main characters are extremely likeable.

 

It's just created to deliver fights and action, nothing more.
 
 

@Red Haired Shanks only mentioned fighting as an example of things he finds mediocre besides story-telling. He didn't say he rates ToG mediocre because of the fighting aspect only (maybe you're mistaking him to captain kidd LOL).
 
And just saying, generally whenever someone uses the ''That is not as important as story and characters'' reason I always am perplexed. Unless you mean you actually give no fuck about fighting, why not have both? It's like choosing girlfriend/lover/wife/husband/significant other. Sure, one should not be shallow and should care about personality and character but why not have someone both good and pretty (assuming you can manage)? 10/10 is still better than 9/10. That is a poor excuse for not being able to score that final point.
 
And I agree with RHS, it's not like One Piece is even at 9/10. I don't think of it as bad as he does but comparing One Piece's writing to say, Blade of the Immortal or Eden or FMA's is just LOL. The only way to go around that is to throw the ''subjective'' card.


I agree. It's just an excuse fans make.


Edited by Red Haired Shanks, 20 January 2017 - 08:52 AM.

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#295 Kaidou

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 09:12 AM

Opinion is an excuse now?

 

Sorry but im not saying that fighting isn't important in the genre and in OP isn't great but the characters and worldbuild outshines it mroe to put above mediocrity.

 

Ofcourse there are better stories then OP or ToG(I like Kingdom more then both of them).

 

 

But this is all subjective, you think OP and ToG are mediocre and i disagree and lets leavbe at that.



#296 Red Haired Shanks

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 09:51 AM

Opinion is an excuse now?

 

Sorry but im not saying that fighting isn't important in the genre and in OP isn't great but the characters and worldbuild outshines it mroe to put above mediocrity.

 

Ofcourse there are better stories then OP or ToG(I like Kingdom more then both of them).

 

 

But this is all subjective, you think OP and ToG are mediocre and i disagree and lets leavbe at that.

It did sound like an excuse to me, but I get what you say.

And there is no need for us to agree either.

 

Consider this though.

You read One Piece and you think it' s great for its great wordbuild. Then you compare it with Kingdom for example, like you said,

which also has a great world build and fighting. Right?

Doesn't this make One Piece automatically seen in a new light and quality wise a notch below?

 

And what if you admit like the way you did, that even plot wise Kingdom might be better?

Then OP is taken down another notch. And if you'll find some other manga that Kingdom might compare unfavourably this process is going on and on.

 

If in the end of the day you can find a dozen of manga significantly better than OP then you might find yourself calling it mediocre.

It's a matter of personal taste, but it's also a matter of perspective according to someone's experiences. Won't you agree?

 

I want to ask you, do you read Game of Thrones?


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#297 Fulmine

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 10:37 AM


Opinion is an excuse now?

Why not? It can even be wrong, much less being an excuse :lol:. Now if you say ''My opinion isn't an excuse'', well that's another thing. But that's why I said


And just saying, generally whenever someone uses

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#298 Kaidou

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 12:23 PM

Why yes i do think Kingdom is better then One Piece but i hardly consider it mediocre,

 

An 8 is far from mediocre but is not perfect either if i would to score One Piece



#299 Urek Mazino

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 01:07 AM

S2Ch234: http://www.webtoons....&episode_no=315


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#300 SilentShadow

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:02 PM

http://www.webtoons....&episode_no=316

 

Is SIU a LoL fan? First Faker then Mata lol


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