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Closing/deleting our own threads


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#21 Lorenx1

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 02:36 AM

And you're asking for the right to own someone else's content.

Asking for the right to delete your own threads, especially if it is dependant of own content (Art Galleries, Stories, GFX) does not in any shape or Form asking for the right to "own" other people's content. I'm not asking for members to have the ability to lock and control other people's threads.

And a post itself is really a means to an end to share the opinion. If the topic is gone, the opinion goes with it.

If we're talking about deleting a thread with post and opinions on them, that's still not even close to the idea of "ownership". And even then, if it's their original content, forums should give them that freedom.

Keyword "content". Not "thoughts and opinions"

As an SG owner, I have moderation rights to hide and delete other people's posts and threads. That doesn't give me the right to abuse that kind of power. I just overhauled an entire RP and I merely hid the old threads in case another use wants access to them again. Because that's the responsible thing to do.

That is the "corteous" thing to do, but definitely doesn't need to be a mandated policy, therefore not the "responsible" thing. And again, if a member doesn't want to share their original content anymore archiving it and keeping it in the forum hidden away just because people want to find it is more wrong than you think.

RPS are different because the community builds the RP, its dependent on the community to create original content. But what about GFX, original Manga, and artwork? Or if there was a place to ask for advice in the real world, even more reason to delete it if it goes south.

If I make a thread, and a user I don't like (and believe me, there are a lot of users I don't like) gets the upper hand against me in a discussion, does that give me the right to delete the thread or, to an extreme, that user's posts?

This is where further rules are enforced. Retrain the community (both members and mods). Honestly I don't even think it'll be as bad as you all make it seem. Yes some of the most immature people exist in this forum. But if you're so worried about people making mass deletions left and right and people complaining about one or two posts getting deleted with such topic, then that says more about the community and what mods/Admins to be.

However, at this point it is principle. What RhyssaFireheart has said so far says a lot about the goals of this forum I don't agree with.

Just because I posted it here to share with others, I don't believe the forum/community owns my content.

I post stories that I don't fully intend to be permanent here for reasons that I think are very valid. And if someone indeed deletes a thread with my posts. I will be upset, but I accept it as their right to do so. It's not the end of the world.

People should be able to delete there own original content, because no matter what the forum wants anyone to believe, it indeed belongs to them.

Because if members are given the right to delete their threads, the next thing people are gonna ask for is the right to delete individual posts.

If you think about it, allowing one to delete their own post will actually lessen the need to delete a thread if it's intending to organize or perhaps accidental threads. But even then, a heated debate over anime and manga? Is the need to delete a post that important?


It's a snowball effect kinda thing. I don't know about you, but I don't want people to have the right to censor content that violates their safe space. Because that's what this will end up being.

This has nothing to do with censorship, or violating someones safe space. (It makes zero sense that soneone would censor their content to violate their safe space either).

And I don't think you have enough experience to say that will happen. Especially with the talk going around that they've never seen such an option. Everyone says the forum will reach chaos. Many forums have it as default and I have yet to see an issue rise up because of it.

Just like YouTube, if someone deletes their video, the comments go away. It's their right to do so. And I don't even want to hear about youtube not being a forum, because it has a comment base system.

About that editing locked posts thing? :^)

This sounds like "last word" argument.

Edited by Lorenx1, 05 August 2016 - 02:43 AM.

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#22 ZCOverload

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 03:10 AM

Christ okay.

 


Asking to delete your own threads, especially if it is dependant of own content (Art Galleries, Stories, GFX) does not in any shape or Form asking for the right to "own" other people's content. I'm not asking for members to have the ability to lock and control other people's threads.

And a post itself is really a means to an end to share the opinion. If the topic is gone, the opinion goes with it.

If we're talking about deleting a thread with post and opinions on them, that's still not even close to the idea of "ownership". And even then, if it's their original content, forums should give them that freedom.

Keyword "content". Not "thoughts and opinions"

 

You literally just backed up my own point. Keyword "content". You want the right to delete your own content? That's reasonable. But someone else posts in that thread? That's THEIR content. It just happens to be in your thread. Your thread is not necessarily your CONTENT. Your content just happens to be in it. I didn't say you're asking to delete other people's posts and threads. I said you're asking to delete your thread with other people's content inside it. It's tyrannical. You're advocating for the right to take someone's opinion away because it's convenient for you. Ownership isn't a concern. It's a matter of it just not being your place to dictate what goes on the forum. If you make a thread, then you're forfeiting your content and your opinions to public domain. That's the territory that comes with sharing content and opinions online. You don't have the right to take that back, plain and simple. But I'm not going to get philosophical, because that would be stupid. This whole discussion is asanine as is.

 


That is the "corteous" thing to do, but definitely doesn't need to be a mandated policy, therefore not the "responsible" thing. And again, if a member doesn't want to share their original content anymore archiving it and keeping it in the forum hidden away just because people want to find it is more wrong than you think.

RPS are different because the community builds the RP, its dependent on the community to create original content. But what about GFX, original Manga, and artwork?

 

WELL LUCKY FOR YOU I ALSO HAPPEN TO BE A GFX CREATOR WITH HIS OWN THREAD ON THIS SITE

 

If I don't want my content on this forum, here's an idea? I could think before I share it. Again, you can't stop people from sharing their opinions on it, quoting it on posts, and even making copies of it and saving it. If I change my mind down the line? Too bad, man. It's out there. That's honestly online security 101. If you don't want something out there, don't ever put it out there. You can fight tooth and nail but once something's been posted online, there's no taking it back.

 


This is where further rules are enforced. Retrain communities. Honestly I don't even think it'll be as bad as you all make it seem. Yes some of the most immature people exist in this forum. But if you're so worried about people making mass deletions left and right and people complaining about one or two posts getting deleted with such topic, then that says more about the community and what mods/Admins to be.

 

This? This is censorship. Whip into shape the people who listen and purge the people that won't? Good strategy. Members act up? Ban them. Mods banning members too much? Shitty mods. Win-win for your stance on the matter, isn't it? You're making out moderators to be some kind of heartless robots. They're people volunteering for no pay to moderate a community that for the most part disrespects them. I won't hide this, I'm not fond of some of the moderators here. But I respect what they do. It's wrong to just blame everyone else when the reality is that you cannot control other people and it's senseless to demand the right to do so. This forum would turn into a hugbox where no meaningful discussion would go on if you had the right to delete your own thread where people disagreed. I bet were it up to you, you'd delete this thread once the matter was resolved because it's "clutter". Am I wrong?

 


However, at this point it is principle. What RhyssaFireheart has said so far says a lot about the goals of this forum I don't agree with.

Just because I posted it here to share with others, I don't believe the forum/community owns my content.

 

I don't agree with Rhyssa wholly either. But I'm not running the forum for free am I?

 

The forum doesn't own your content, but do you own my content? Do you have the right to remove this post, this one right here? This post that I'm writing on YOUR thread? Am I infringing on your content by posting in your thread? Do I own this post? Really, are you not seeing what I'm getting at here?

 


I post stories that I don't fully intend to be permanent here for reasons that I think are very valid. And if someone indeed deletes a thread with my posts. I will be upset, but I accept it as their right to do so. It's not the end of the world.

 

That's you though? What if I posted in someone else's thread content that I would like to have access to later? Sure, I'd love for someone to, at their discretion, remove that content without my say in it.

 


If you think about it, allowing one to delete their own post will actually lessen the need to delete a thread if it's intending to organize or perhaps accidental threads. But even then, a heated debate over anime and manga? Is the need to delete a post that important?

 

I'm sorry, this was worded strangely. I'm not sure what you're asking? You already are allowed to edit and delete your own posts. As I see it, moderators have no problem deleting or merging accidental threads. There have been cases where members accidentally created multiple threads where there should only be one, and merged the content into the other. It's not a big deal.

 


This has nothing to do with censorship, or violating someones safe space. (It makes zero sense that soneone would censor their content to violate their safe space either).

And I don't think you have enough experience to say that will happen. Especially with the talk going around that they've never seen such an option. Everyone says the forum will reach chaos. Many forums have it as default and I have yet to see an issue rise up because of it.

Just like YouTube, if someone deletes their video, the comments go away. It's their right to do so. And I don't even want to hear about youtube not being a forum, because it has a comment base system.

 

"Hey, North Korean police officials can detain their citizens without any concern to their human rights! Why can't we do that here?"

 

Okay that was extreme, but my point is just because other communities allow you to do that, doesn't mean that we should. Let Greg and Rhyssa run their forum their way. You're a member here, and you're participating in this community thanks to their work. It's not hard to pay a little respect and merely inquire "hey, this isn't a feature, why? Oh okay, I understand now, thanks!" Respect people. Why can't there just be a little respect around here? And in reality, that's the entire reason I'm even participating in this discussion, because...

 


This sounds like "last word" argument.

 

Cute. You know what else is cute? The fact that this post is edited, where you called me hypocritical, despite the fact that I'm asking for a feature where I can edit MY OWN POSTS in a locked thread. It's not a last word argument. It's something I'm asking that has absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about.

 

Oh, and it's also cool how you turned on me after PMing me about how rational this whole thing is, after I had posted in this thread asking for a feature entirely unrelated to yours.

 

Now if you editing your post and changing the narrative while decrying the risk of censorship isn't irony? But uh, I think my pointing this out is SOME sort of logical fallacy, so I'll let that go.

Actually, I'm done.

Mods, if you're down to get back to me on the locked threads thing, I'm open to whatever you guys think is right.


 

Oh, and I apologise if I seemed a little heated. It's nothing personal, and I hate to point fingers at people. I've made my share of insults on this forum, but I'm not looking to pick a fight. Sorry again.


 

Oh, and one more thing. I've distanced myself from this community because of the issues I take with many of the members here, for both the sake of civil discussion among said members without my blowing up on them, and for my own mental health. That's also a logical course of action, and nobody would hold it against you to take a break from the forum and come back once in a while to post in topics you find convenient. The forum, the community, and the moderators, are here for you, as the member.


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#23 Greg

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 06:57 AM


Mods, if you're down to get back to me on the locked threads thing, I'm open to whatever you guys think is right.

 

It's more a practicality thing- there's no out of the box option to give you the ability to do it (that I see) and I don't think it's something that would make sense for custom code even if I had the time.


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#24 RhyssaFireheart

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 11:33 AM


These are ideas are very extreme. Also I don't know what forums but plenty of forums allow one to delete threads. I promise you that there is one forum you ran into (if not half) that allow it.

 

Still nope, especially since the majority of forums I've been part of over the years, I've also done so as a mod/admin of some sort.  Seriously, I have never heard of a forum allowing users to delete their own content.  Not saying it's not possible to exist, since you claim you've been on forums that have this "feature" but we obviously frequent vastly different places on the interwebs.

 

And my guess is that that "feature" must be specially coded in or it's custom board software, because as far as I know, the major forum software out there (vB, IPB, myBB, SMF, whatever) don't allow this as part of their standard setups.


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#25 Greg

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 01:06 PM

Still nope, especially since the majority of forums I've been part of over the years, I've also done so as a mod/admin of some sort.  Seriously, I have never heard of a forum allowing users to delete their own content.  Not saying it's not possible to exist, since you claim you've been on forums that have this "feature" but we obviously frequent vastly different places on the interwebs.

 

And my guess is that that "feature" must be specially coded in or it's custom board software, because as far as I know, the major forum software out there (vB, IPB, myBB, SMF, whatever) don't allow this as part of their standard setups.

It's possible to give users that permission on all the forum software I've worked with, but it's never been the default permission.


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#26 Lorenx1

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 10:00 PM

You literally just backed up my own point. Keyword "content". You want the right to delete your own content? That's reasonable. But someone else posts in that thread? That's THEIR content. It just happens to be in your thread. Your thread is not necessarily your CONTENT. Your content just happens to be in it.

You're not listening. Or maybe you are and you're intentionally misleading what I'm trying to say. Which is such a jerk move. Keep it real.

Opinions and thoughts does not equal original content. You're trying to put both in the same boat and they're not. I'll explain further why.

I didn't say you're asking to delete other people's posts and threads. I said you're asking to delete your thread with other people's content inside it.

No you didnt. You took it to an extreme and now you have to clarify now. Which even then you are still pushing it to another extreme. It's not really their "content". It's their opinions and thoughts. And those aren't bound by one digital post on a site. Does their opinions on disappear just because the post did?

Does it escape from their mind? No. Not at all.

It's tyrannical. You're advocating for the right to take someone's opinion away because it's convenient for you.

An opinion isn't bound by a post. No one is taking anyone's opinion away by deleting a thread with what they wrote. The person still has the freedom to share that opinion again if they feel strongly about it. But at that point I don't think people care to repost about an opinion of a story that's no longer there.

Ownership isn't a concern. It's a matter of it just not being your place to dictate what goes on the forum.

Then why did you say that earlier?

If you make a thread, then you're forfeiting your content and your opinions to public domain. That's the territory that comes with sharing content and opinions online. You don't have the right to take that back, plain and simple. But I'm not going to get philosophical, because that would be stupid. This whole discussion is asanine as is.

Just because you say that doesnt make it a fact or an accepted principle. Look at YouTube, Livejournal, Facebook, Deviant Art and plenty of sites. The most basic places allow people to share their content and the freedom to delete it. Does one sue the other because they deleted their opinion of such deleted content?


WELL LUCKY FOR YOU I ALSO HAPPEN TO BE A GFX CREATOR WITH HIS OWN THREAD ON THIS SITE

If I don't want my content on this forum, here's an idea? I could think before I share it. Again, you can't stop people from sharing their opinions on it, quoting it on posts, and even making copies of it and saving it. If I change my mind down the line? Too bad, man. It's out there. That's honestly online security 101. If you don't want something out there, don't ever put it out there. You can fight tooth and nail but once something's been posted online, there's no taking it back.

Trying to defend the reality of security compromised doesn't mean a forum should endorse that.

This? This is censorship. Whip into shape the people who listen and purge the people that won't? Good strategy.

There's really no need to be sarcastic. And I haven't disrespected anyone yet. But if we're talking about censorship in the broadest sense of the word. They is something we all have to get used to.

You're trying to use the word censorship in general but you haven't proven how it's abuse. This forum has already had a Form of censorship already.


Members act up? Ban them. Mods banning members too much? Shitty mods. Win-win for your stance on the matter, isn't it?

Nothing I'm saying has anything to do with banning. And no, that scenario isn't a Win-win at all. In fact, I'm against immediate banning.

You're making out moderators to be some kind of heartless robots. They're people volunteering for no pay to moderate a community that for the most part disrespects them



Heartless robots? I'm not even talking about moderators in general. I only mentioned one by name because they are stating very extreme ideas. What I am talking about is the forum as a single entity. Some Admins and even members like you are validating the idea that this content belongs to the community just for the simple reason that it was posted here in the first place.

It's no longer about keeping the peace and avoiding trolls. It's about claiming property theirs.

I won't hide this, I'm not fond of some of the moderators here. But I respect what they do. It's wrong to just blame everyone else when the reality is that you cannot control other people and it's senseless to demand the right to do so.

There is absolutely no demand to control "people". But at the same time reinforcing rules and retrain their thinking isn't that far off of standard forum practice, especially if it becomes large community.


This forum would turn into a hugbox where no meaningful discussion would go on if you had the right to delete your own thread where people disagreed. I bet were it up to you, you'd delete this thread once the matter was resolved because it's "clutter". Am I wrong?

The only reason I asked because I simply clean my content better. I only intended to make a brand new thread where my chapters are easier to find rather than scattered between comments. That was the clutter I was referring to.


And I completely understand that mods prefer it this way to avoid trolls. And i was fully prepared to leave it at that. But now it's a problem with people who saying I forfeit my content the moment I post. And that is something I take very seriously.

And again, I'm talking about my stories, or art. I could care less if my opinion is deleted.


I don't agree with Rhyssa wholly either. But I'm not running the forum for free am I?


You are literally saying the exact same things.

The forum doesn't own your content, but do you own my content? Do you have the right to remove this post, this one right here? This post that I'm writing on YOUR thread? Am I infringing on your content by posting in your thread? Do I own this post? Really, are you not seeing what I'm getting at here?

In this exact same quote you literally said it's not about "ownership".and now you are coming back to make it as your point?

The beginning of my post I clearly distinguished the difference between "content" from "thoughts and opinions". There is a clear difference between the two. An opinion or a responce to such subject can always be brought back by the original creator (unless the reason for deleting that thread was by an administrator/mod and the only purpose was to delete such answer). Do I own your ability to share your responce? No. So if I hypothetically delete a thread with your responce in it. You can still post about it in another thread or make your own. But why would I want to even do that?

You're making mountains over molehills. Because who would actually care that much about reading their own responce? Who would go that far just to make a point.


That's you though? What if I posted in someone else's thread content that I would like to have access to later? Sure, I'd love for someone to, at their discretion, remove that content without my say in it


You not able to access your written opinion of someone's original content vs someone not able to take their own original content away for whatever reason just because someone posted an opinion on it.

To me it's a no-brainer.

I'm sorry, this was worded strangely. I'm not sure what you're asking? You already are allowed to edit and delete your own posts. As I see it, moderators have no problem deleting or merging accidental threads. There have been cases where members accidentally created multiple threads where there should only be one, and merged the content into the other.

And I see no problem with members removing their own threads if they no longer wish to share their original piece of work.

If it's a topic. I doubt anyone would fully want to.

"Hey, North Korean police officials can detain their citizens without any concern to their human rights! Why can't we do that here?"

Okay that was extreme, but my point is just because other communities allow you to do that, doesn't mean that we should.

The only way you can defend it is if you have to use north Korea as an example? I'm not convinced.

Let Greg and Rhyssa run their forum their way. You're a member here, and you're participating in this community thanks to their work. It's not hard to pay a little respect and merely inquire "hey, this isn't a feature, why? Oh okay, I understand now, thanks!" Respect people. Why can't there just be a little respect around here? And in reality, that's the entire reason I'm even participating in this discussion, because...

You took absolutely everything out of proportion. Everything. Not one thing you were you on point. You contradicted in one post.

And this isn't even about mods personally.


Cute. You know what else is cute? The fact that this post is edited, where you called me hypocritical, despite the fact that I'm asking for a feature where I can edit MY OWN POSTS in a locked thread. It's not a last word argument. It's something I'm asking that has absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about.

It has a lot to do with where this argument is coming from. Half of the argument is about enabling trolls. Well if a thread is closed and you give people the option to change their post, that is allowing people to be a troll. Especially if a thread is closed for being heated argument. Imagine if this thread got closed and you got what you wanted.

Your option is unpractical because it enables troll. And I dare say even worst because the trolls will have faster access to it. It gives them room to destroy a thread, get it closed and then do further damage even after closed.

I find it hypocritical to put this under a microscope and not put yours when it should be OBVIOUS the problems that come with your proposal. No other forum or social site allows a feature that let's you change what you said after it was closed. It's a feature that "gives someone the last word". That's what I meant. I wasn't referring to you having the last word in this thread.

Closing their own thread isn't a troll move. It may feel annoying and out of spite but it's not trolling. And this is where a forum can grow more mature by finding who to avoid if they do indeed to mass deletes.

Opinions can be repost their opinions I a more reliable place and learn who are the not mature people. But again, I'm focusing more on sections designed to share original content.

Oh, and it's also cool how you turned on me after PMing me about how rational this whole thing is, after I had posted in this thread asking for a feature entirely unrelated to yours.


Turned on you? What are you talking about.

Now if you editing your post and changing the narrative while decrying the risk of censorship isn't irony? But uh, I think my pointing this out is SOME sort of logical fallacy, so I'll let that go.
Actually, I'm done.
Mods, if you're down to get back to me on the locked threads thing, I'm open to whatever you guys think is right.
 Oh, and I apologise if I seemed a little heated. It's nothing personal, and I hate to point fingers at people. I've made my share of insults on this forum, but I'm not looking to pick a fight. Sorry again.


Edited by Lorenx1, 05 August 2016 - 10:03 PM.

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#27 Greg

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 12:02 AM

Speaking of closing threads...


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