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[Discussion] Power Levels (Part 4)


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#1 Miss Coquine

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 06:53 AM

Previous thread 

 

Well back when I had a six pack I loved shallow women....
 
But bow that you mention it I should carry a tazer

 
 

You lost them?

 
 

I know I know Enel has abs, but my bench is past 315x6 and my close grip is 225x8 so I think it is worth it.....at least that is what I tell my self when I am looking in the mirror

 
 

At least you're not Blackbeard shaped

 
 

Hahahaha I don't think I could physically eat enough to maintain that body shape.


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#2 Abaroxa

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 02:48 PM

Either the WB crew is a bunch of heartless SOBs that don't care for their family (which is why they are there to save ace) or luffy is currently in the top teir of WB commanders right now.

 
I had to bring this last sentence into this thread.
 
Luffy right now is in the top teir of WB commander but only when he is in his g4 form. Cant forget he did beat Cracker and DD.
During MF luffy g2/g3 was a weak VA level and after ts his g2/g3 moved on to a strong VA level as I believe he does not need g4 to beat Vergo or Smokie. Cant forget that it was stated that luffy haki is above average(by bellami).
It is true that WB could have send in Vista or Jozu to defeat a few pacifistas but he was probabily thinking in the ahead. When you play chess you cant get to the king because of the other pieces but if one or two pieces move out and you see an opening you will try to take the king down. Basically WB knew he needed the defense from his top fighters and we have an example of this when marco stopped borsalino from attacking WB.
 
You say that the NW captains were weak because they were having trouble with the pacifistas well I got news for you, they are weak. Not everyone that made to the NW is strong. Don krieg  made it to paradise and in his first week had to return to east blue because he couldnt take it(he was super unlucky to meet mihawk in a bad day because he didnt stop until he saw that ship sink) This new world captains were lucky to have met WB and be under his protection.
I have to say this new world captains allied to WB were VA level if not weaker.
The marines were more impressed with rob lucci than by the new world captains [period].


#3 captain kidd

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 03:05 PM



I had to bring this last sentence into this thread.

Luffy right now is in the top teir of WB commander but only when he is in his g4 form. Cant forget he did beat Cracker and DD.
During MF luffy g2/g3 was a weak VA level and after ts his g2/g3 moved on to a strong VA level as I believe he does not need g4 to beat Vergo or Smokie. Cant forget that it was stated that luffy haki is above average(by bellami).
It is true that WB could have send in Vista or Jozu to defeat a few pacifistas but he was probabily thinking in the ahead. When you play chess you cant get to the king because of the other pieces but if one or two pieces move out and you see an opening you will try to take the king down. Basically WB knew he needed the defense from his top fighters and we have an example of this when marco stopped borsalino from attacking WB.

You say that the NW captains were weak because they were having trouble with the pacifistas well I got news for you, they are weak. Not everyone that made to the NW is strong. Don krieg made it to paradise and in his first week had to return to east blue because he couldnt take it(he was super unlucky to meet mihawk in a bad day because he didnt stop until he saw that ship sink) This new world captains were lucky to have met WB and be under his protection.
I have to say this new world captains allied to WB were VA level if not weaker.
The marines were more impressed with rob lucci than by the new world captains [period].


Ok so this is extremely splitting hairs now. And I 100% agree the NW captains are weak.

But the NW captains getting defeated by weevel was his biggest hype piece. Doesn't that leave him looking a lot worse?



Oh and just to play devils advocate. I ripp lucci apart non stop here because honestly he seemed really underwhelming and he is a worthless zoan.

That being said. Lucci may be almost as unlucky as Enel. I mean Luffy was Enels one and only natural enemy no one will ever be that unlucky, but, luffy was immune to lucci's physical attacks that easily stopped franky in his tracks. And luffy was able to master lucci's super speed. We have no reason to assume G2 has increased in speed over the years so I have to submit, there is a chance luffy is still moving with that same speed he fought lucci with. Meaning the speed DD complimented luffy for is very close to lucci's speed.
Maybe I have been a little too harsh to the strongest ever WG assassin........ who am I kidding he was almost killed by a bone inflated with air he is a loser.
 
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#4 Chillman

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 03:15 PM


who am I kidding he was almost killed by a bone inflated with air he is a loser.

 

As opposed to DD who was beaten by muscles inflated with air?



#5 captain kidd

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 03:20 PM

As opposed to DD who was beaten by muscles inflated with air?


Not everyone can be like Enel who was beaten by a 20 ton golden ball to the face


The thing about G4 isn't the added mass but the ability to pull the fist into luffys body to increase the speed it is shot out with. Oh and the cosmetic haki
Nami "hey luffy we are going clubbing want to barrow my eye shadow"
Luffy "no thanks I make my own"
Cosmetic haki adds X10 damage.
 
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#6 Fulmine

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 07:36 AM


I have to say this new world captains allied to WB were VA level if not weaker.

They are most likely weaker. All the Admirals were occupied by the Top Commanders and WB himself and Garp and Sengoku were not fighting until very late into the War. Ergo the strongest fighters the WB alliance had to face are the VAs (10 of them IIRC. Hell, 3 giant VAs were beaten by WB and Oars and we know now that Bastille is shit to Sabo, who is like a Top Commander level fighter if you compare Revo to a Yonkou crew). And yet even with 43 captains they couldn't break through fast. Yeah, 43 NW captains who have made name to themselves couldn't do crap to 10 VAs (this is why I always say VAs are not weak. The top tiers are just too strong hence the one-shot fights). Either they are too weak against VAs or Kizaru and Aokiji still had plenty of time to pay attention to them despite being engaged by Marco and Jozu LOL

Tsuru might be an outlier like Garp though.

 

 


But the NW captains getting defeated by weevel was his biggest hype piece. Doesn't that leave him looking a lot worse?

Please, we all know he only needs to be stronger than Marco to serve some purpose in this story and you don't need to be better than ''a lot worse'' to beat Marco.

 

 

 

As opposed to DD who was beaten by muscles inflated with air?

And Hardening. Why do you leave out the most important factor? CoA adds a lot of attack power...I mean Vergo's CoA turns a bamboo stick (which East Blue Luffy would break easily. East BlueLuffy broke stone and steel for Enel's sake so he would break bamboo effortlessly) into a potent weapon capable of fighting at New World level (against Smoker and Law, no less).

 

 


Not everyone can be like Enel who was beaten by a 20 ton golden ball to the face

I'm pretty sure it is between 70-700 tons. Gold is like 19 tons per 1 cubic meter and that golden ball is huge ( well, we know Oda's not very consistent with size and perspective but even at its smallest it is still way more than 20 tons).


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#7 Abaroxa

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 12:16 PM

Giving that you guys say that VAs are not weak at all, I have to ask where would you place EL rob lucci in terms of power level in "our fan" power ranking.

 

People clearly underestimate arlong as he deserved more than a merely 20 mil bounty, the same can be said about crocodile which had 81 mil. I know that bounties dont represent power levels but this two were clearly stuck on a old bounty that didnt represent their power level nor their threat to civilians and the WG. Crocodile because he was a shikibukai and arlong because he was kind of under the umbrella of jimbei. 

 

Luffy is the other character I want to analyse but first I need to know at what point did he get powers boosts. Normally a character gets a boost after defeating an enemy, trainning or going through a new environment. Luffy (in my eyes) got it in alabasta, sky island, EL, TB, Rusukaina, Dressrosa and Tot land.

Luffy didnt show any effort in defeating arlong, so no boost. In alabasta crocodile pushed Luffy to his limits. In Sky island the straw hats couldn t even walk when they arrived because of the air pressure, by the end they were fighting and giving their all. In EL luffy went to his limit and introduced g2/g3. In TB he refined his g2/g3. In Rusukaina  he learned haki and developed g4. In Dressrosa he once again went  to his limit and fought two king haki users, DD and Chinjao and he even showed us g4 for the first time. Tot land is not over but luffy has been fighting non stop since he left puddings house, from the fighting ants, mirrors copies, homies, cracker a sweet commander and  a bunch of Big mom fighters with impressive skills and bounties.

My point here is ?.. Luffy base is not close to VA level unless he's using haki, with g2/g3 he can clash with them but in a 1on1 fight I wouldnt bet on him because VA power level are to wide to be precise and without haki Luffy does not have a clear win.

 

Oh yeah! I remember now, my point was to help decide where I could rank Rob Lucci. He was a mid level VA in EL and if they introduce him again with his old skills and haki on top he wont be strong enough to just clash with Luffy g4 as Luffy would wipe the floor with him the same way he did to DD and Sabo did to bastille.



#8 GiaThird

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 12:47 PM

Giving that you guys say that VAs are not weak at all, I have to ask where would you place EL rob lucci in terms of power level in "our fan" power ranking.

 

People clearly underestimate arlong as he deserved more than a merely 20 mil bounty, the same can be said about crocodile which had 81 mil. I know that bounties dont represent power levels but this two were clearly stuck on a old bounty that didnt represent their power level nor their threat to civilians and the WG. Crocodile because he was a shikibukai and arlong because he was kind of under the umbrella of jimbei. 

 

Luffy is the other character I want to analyse but first I need to know at what point did he get powers boosts. Normally a character gets a boost after defeating an enemy, trainning or going through a new environment. Luffy (in my eyes) got it in alabasta, sky island, EL, TB, Rusukaina, Dressrosa and Tot land.

Luffy didnt show any effort in defeating arlong, so no boost. In alabasta crocodile pushed Luffy to his limits. In Sky island the straw hats couldn t even walk when they arrived because of the air pressure, by the end they were fighting and giving their all. In EL luffy went to his limit and introduced g2/g3. In TB he refined his g2/g3. In Rusukaina  he learned haki and developed g4. In Dressrosa he once again went  to his limit and fought two king haki users, DD and Chinjao and he even showed us g4 for the first time. Tot land is not over but luffy has been fighting non stop since he left puddings house, from the fighting ants, mirrors copies, homies, cracker a sweet commander and  a bunch of Big mom fighters with impressive skills and bounties.

My point here is ?.. Luffy base is not close to VA level unless he's using haki, with g2/g3 he can clash with them but in a 1on1 fight I wouldnt bet on him because VA power level are to wide to be precise and without haki Luffy does not have a clear win.

 

Oh yeah! I remember now, my point was to help decide where I could rank Rob Lucci. He was a mid level VA in EL and if they introduce him again with his old skills and haki on top he wont be strong enough to just clash with Luffy g4 as Luffy would wipe the floor with him the same way he did to DD and Sabo did to bastille.

 

Lucci, in EL, was probably Bastille level. The only reason the marines were like "WOW BASTILLE NOTICE ME SO STRONG" before Sabo trashed him, was cause he swing his sword and made the buildings drop. Thats not being a strong fighter, thts just being physically strong, or above average. Luffy in g2 wont do that much destruction in one punch, but that one punch has a much higher chance to hit you in the face and win the fight. The same applies to Rob Lucci. He can be very fast and strong, not in a destructive way, but in an assassine way. The zon fruit, altough kinda meh, at least gives him more stamina. Add haki and 2 years of training and he will probably be on the same level as Luffy, until g4, then he gest trashed. This is taking a path where if you dont have a good DF, or swords, you are gonna get left behind.



#9 captain kidd

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 08:41 AM

Giving that you guys say that VAs are not weak at all, I have to ask where would you place EL rob lucci in terms of power level in "our fan" power ranking.

People clearly underestimate arlong as he deserved more than a merely 20 mil bounty, the same can be said about crocodile which had 81 mil. I know that bounties dont represent power levels but this two were clearly stuck on a old bounty that didnt represent their power level nor their threat to civilians and the WG. Crocodile because he was a shikibukai and arlong because he was kind of under the umbrella of jimbei.

Luffy is the other character I want to analyse but first I need to know at what point did he get powers boosts. Normally a character gets a boost after defeating an enemy, trainning or going through a new environment. Luffy (in my eyes) got it in alabasta, sky island, EL, TB, Rusukaina, Dressrosa and Tot land.
Luffy didnt show any effort in defeating arlong, so no boost. In alabasta crocodile pushed Luffy to his limits. In Sky island the straw hats couldn t even walk when they arrived because of the air pressure, by the end they were fighting and giving their all. In EL luffy went to his limit and introduced g2/g3. In TB he refined his g2/g3. In Rusukaina he learned haki and developed g4. In Dressrosa he once again went to his limit and fought two king haki users, DD and Chinjao and he even showed us g4 for the first time. Tot land is not over but luffy has been fighting non stop since he left puddings house, from the fighting ants, mirrors copies, homies, cracker a sweet commander and a bunch of Big mom fighters with impressive skills and bounties.
My point here is ?.. Luffy base is not close to VA level unless he's using haki, with g2/g3 he can clash with them but in a 1on1 fight I wouldnt bet on him because VA power level are to wide to be precise and without haki Luffy does not have a clear win.

Oh yeah! I remember now, my point was to help decide where I could rank Rob Lucci. He was a mid level VA in EL and if they introduce him again with his old skills and haki on top he wont be strong enough to just clash with Luffy g4 as Luffy would wipe the floor with him the same way he did to DD and Sabo did to bastille.



You see what a lot of people don't understand about haki is since only luffy fights logia it is not really needed in a normal fight.



As for lucci. If I am correct in assuming that luffy's G2 hasn't increased in speed (why would it) and luffy is still fighting all his battles in the same speed he used to beat lucci. Then I would put lucci on the same level as emperor commanders and VA.

Now if I am wrong about that, then he is below current luffy and most SN therefore fodder.



Arlong was rated just fine. The dude got zero difficultied by luffy. And don't blame the old bounties. That was before Oda knew how high bounties would rise. Remember when smoker's men considered it a huge success to best a 51m bounty pirate? Ya not so impressive considering the current 300m+ standard in the NW. They are good indicators of power but they don't hold up after multiple arcs. Look at what happened with the warlords. DD's bounty was the highest aside from the unknown mihawk. And DD turned out to be the last serious warlord enemy. The bounty showed he would be the strongest...... problem was after Oda's run away writer syndrome made luffy's 400m DD's was a little out of place.
 

Lucci, in EL, was probably Bastille level. The only reason the marines were like "WOW BASTILLE NOTICE ME SO STRONG" before Sabo trashed him, was cause he swing his sword and made the buildings drop. Thats not being a strong fighter, thts just being physically strong, or above average. Luffy in g2 wont do that much destruction in one punch, but that one punch has a much higher chance to hit you in the face and win the fight. The same applies to Rob Lucci. He can be very fast and strong, not in a destructive way, but in an assassine way. The zon fruit, altough kinda meh, at least gives him more stamina. Add haki and 2 years of training and he will probably be on the same level as Luffy, until g4, then he gest trashed. This is taking a path where if you dont have a good DF, or swords, you are gonna get left behind.


Your last sentence is why op currently sucks for sanji
 
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#10 Fulmine

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 11:22 AM


Giving that you guys say that VAs are not weak at all, I have to ask where would you place EL rob lucci in terms of power level in "our fan" power ranking.

No idea but definitely below Yonkou Top Commanders and post-TSSanji/Zolo.

Drake was a Rear Admiral and if that means something...

 

 


arlong because he was kind of under the umbrella of jimbei.

I think more like because he bribed Nezumi

 

 


He was a mid level VA in EL

Not sure how you came to that and I did read your big paragraph. It looks like you assume BaseLuffy hasn't changed since Water7 and somehow VA level is too wide to be precise but I see no hint/evidence of that (of course, also not the opposite). Grap is the only outlier, and maybe Tsuru but for the rest...I have seen nothing indicating one is much stronger than another.

 

 


as Luffy would wipe the floor with him the same way he did to DD and Sabo did to bastille.

Heh? Why is that in there with ''wipe the floor'' and ''Sabo did to Bastille''?

 

 


Your last sentence is why op currently sucks for sanji

But Garp...


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#11 captain kidd

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 02:33 PM

No idea but definitely below Yonkou Top Commanders and post-TSSanji/Zolo.
Drake was a Rear Admiral and if that means something...


I think more like because he bribed Nezumi


Not sure how you came to that and I did read your big paragraph. It looks like you assume BaseLuffy hasn't changed since Water7 and somehow VA level is too wide to be precise but I see no hint/evidence of that (of course, also not the opposite). Grap is the only outlier, and maybe Tsuru but for the rest...I have seen nothing indicating one is much stronger than another.


Heh? Why is that in there with ''wipe the floor'' and ''Sabo did to Bastille''?


But Garp...


And why we will never get to see garp fight.

Nothing personal but Oda isn't good at drawling fights. He makes this up by drawling epic clashes and over the top moves.

Although he does have good moments like luffy be DD in hand to hand combat. That was cool even if it only lasted a page.

I am just glad he isn't as bad as hiro where you honestly can't tell how his characters are hurting eachother.
 
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#12 Abaroxa

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 01:26 PM

You see what a lot of people don't understand about haki is since only luffy fights logia it is not really needed in a normal fight.
 

Normal arrows dont break rocks. Kuja warriors can do it thanks to haki. This proves that armament improves your attack power.
Would you rather be hit in the face by a football or a bowling ball. Both are hollow on the inside but one is clearly harder and can kill you. This is the way I see luffy with and without haki. So yeah, it does make a difference.

 

No idea but definitely below Yonkou Top Commanders and post-TSSanji/Zolo.
Drake was a Rear Admiral and if that means something...
 

Drake was rear admiral before he left the marines. After that he had his pirate adventures where he probably improved his skills and developed new ones(same way as luffy). Drake Imo was the strongest supernova in SA 2 years ago because he stop a clash between urouge and killer with ease in is base form and was able to kick a pacifista without complaining like Sanji (He did scream like a little b*tch when he got hit with the light beam). His father was relying on his strength for some weird reason even though he was super young.

All drakes feats in SA were done with the use of his hybrid form which I suspect is his strongest form.


 

Heh? Why is that in there with ''wipe the floor'' and ''Sabo did to Bastille''?
 


Can you please tell me what did Luffy do with DD in those minutes he was in g4. That was no fight and DD was not laughing for the first time ever.


Edited by Abaroxa, 11 January 2017 - 02:02 PM.


#13 captain kidd

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 02:15 PM

I was joking about the fact that lucci doesn't have haki but I still want to say he is top shit.

That being said there was a grain of truth in what I said. Lucci's main attack is finger gun which probably won't be effected much by haki. We have yet to see anyone block it aside from luffy...... ya if lucci had haki luffy would of been dead 2 seconds into that fight.
 
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#14 Fulmine

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 08:01 AM


Drake was rear admiral before he left the marines. After that he had his pirate adventures where he probably improved his skills and developed new ones(same way as luffy).

I know.

But that bit about same way as Luffy is quite a conjecture. Being a former Marines he may have better knowledge and whatnot and we don't know WHEN he became pirates and how.

 

 


because he stop a clash between urouge and killer with ease in is base form

 

and was able to kick a pacifista without complaining like Sanji

I don't see how that's a great feat...weaker fighters can block stronger fighters just fine. It's not like one always fight with his strongest move on his sleeve

 

He kicked it when? I only remember he hit it with his weapon or something. And anw, pre-TS Sanji may have been much weaker than VAs so that does not really help your point.

 

 


All drakes feats in SA were done with the use of his hybrid form which I suspect is his strongest form.

I'm pretty sure that was full-animal form

 

 


Can you please tell me what did Luffy do with DD in those minutes he was in g4. That was no fight and DD was not laughing for the first time ever.

You didn't say G4 originally... :huh:

 

And even then, G4 didn't one-shot DD so your comparison with SabovsBastille is still wrong. Not sure why grasping at straw here...not to mention after the initial shock, DD ended up laughing anw LOL

 

And for the umteenth time, DD outlasted G4. So it was DD who won. Luffy won in a rematch after 10-minute rest. I don't care how many times Luffy hit DD, he couldn't put him down with all that advantages he had. So it looked good, but not effective.

It's like having 90% possession in a football match yet cannot score and lose when the opponent needs only one counter attack to have a goal. Unles there was incredible luck, normally only whiny people would make excuse for that kind of loss when it's their fault for producing such ineffective attacks (ineffective as in not being able to beat the other team. I don't care how good their football looks just like I don't care how dominating Luffy looked when he first entered G4 and hit DD. Hell, he took an awfully long time, 20 minutes, for such dominance and still didn't beat DD. Clearly at some point DD kept up with him and from then it stopped being a one-sided fight ). And DDvsLuffy does have luck, admittedly, but...for Luffy. How much help he had in that fight again? Only that thanks to being the protagonist who cannot lose in that situation, Luffy got to hide for 10 minutes and avoid that counter attack from DD which would have produced the deciding goal.


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#15 captain kidd

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 08:05 AM

I know.
But that bit about same way as Luffy is quite a conjecture. Being a former Marines he may have better knowledge and whatnot and we don't know WHEN he became pirates and how.


I don't see how that's a great feat...weaker fighters can block stronger fighters just fine. It's not like one always fight with his strongest move on his sleeve

He kicked it when? I only remember he hit it with his weapon or something. And anw, pre-TS Sanji may have been much weaker than VAs so that does not really help your point.


I'm pretty sure that was full-animal form


You didn't say G4 originally... :huh:

And even then, G4 didn't one-shot DD so your comparison with SabovsBastille is still wrong. Not sure why grasping at straw here...not to mention after the initial shock, DD ended up laughing anw LOL

And for the umteenth time, DD outlasted G4. So it was DD who won. Luffy won in a rematch after 10-minute rest. I don't care how many times Luffy hit DD, he couldn't put him down with all that advantages he had. So it looked good, but not effective.
It's like having 90% possession in a football match yet cannot score and lose when the opponent needs only one counter attack to have a goal. Unles there was incredible luck, normally only whiny people would make excuse for that kind of loss when it's their fault for producing such ineffective attacks (ineffective as in not being able to beat the other team. I don't care how good their football looks just like I don't care how dominating Luffy looked when he first entered G4 and hit DD. Hell, he took an awfully long time, 20 minutes, for such dominance and still didn't beat DD. Clearly at some point DD kept up with him and from then it stopped being a one-sided fight ). And DDvsLuffy does have luck, admittedly, but...for Luffy. How much help he had in that fight again? Only that thanks to being the protagonist who cannot lose in that situation, Luffy got to hide for 10 minutes and avoid that counter attack from DD which would have produced the deciding goal.


Ya that defintally isn't how things work, the fighting never stopped DD was still actively trying to kill luffy although he got sidetracked.... I don't think that counts as a rematch.
 
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