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One Piece Chapter 923 Discussion


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#41 PunkHazard

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 05:23 PM

This is the Emperor I wanted.
Not the friendly grampa WB (even though he was awesome, yes), nor BM with all the talking trees and cakes and suns and all that crap, nor super cocky arrogant BB.
This.
A dude that doesn't bother defending, only grunts, and can one shot Luffy easily. Kaido left me more intimidated in one chapter than BM left in a whole arc. She needed a whole family to go after Luffy, and countless cliffhangers where she almost got him.
Drunk Kaido did it in one page.

Having said that, Tama isn't dead right???? I mean, it would be a way to get rid of an OP power, but Oda wouldn't simply kill a kid right?

Still, very good chapter. As I mentioned previously, I do believe Luffy is still pretty far behind a Yonko level and I do believe he will need some kind of another TS or hyperbolic time chamber to fill in the gap. Either that or he starts teaming up to beat stronger foes, which is also ok for me.
A clear fast loss like this was what we needed to establish the difference in power between these two, and for me this is something that BM failed in doing.
 

Sorry, but where has this Hybrid thing came from and why is it so important?

im pretty sure he’s a df user and every other zoan fruit has a hybrid form

#42 Scorpion2k4u

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 06:24 PM

I'm dissapointed in the power gap a bit tbh. I mean Luffy puts everything in and it has basically no effect. If nothing mayor happens, then Luffy becomes the PK not by his own strength but by his ability to find people who team up with him. While the message that sends to kids might be good but it's not what I want from the MC.


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#43 Strobacaxi

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 06:52 PM

I'm dissapointed in the power gap a bit tbh. I mean Luffy puts everything in and it has basically no effect. If nothing mayor happens, then Luffy becomes the PK not by his own strength but by his ability to find people who team up with him. While the message that sends to kids might be good but it's not what I want from the MC.

 

Luffy is not at top performance.

He's angry, and not calm at all. His CoO is not remotely close to his real level.

He's afraid for his nakama. He doesn't know if they're alive. He's worried, and that makes his haki weaker.

He didn't use King Kong stuff.

He is most likely still going to fight one of the calamities or someone on/above Katakuri's level who will make him even stronger.

 

I never felt like Luffy would beat Kaidou though. Always felt like it would be BM = Fight a yonkou and lose, Kaidou = Fight a yonkou with help and win, BB = Fight a yonkou alone and win

 

And yes, Luffy will be PK mostly because of his ability to make everyone follow him. That's what being a king means.

He will also probably be the strongest pirate in the world by that time.


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#44 Ajh77

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 07:07 PM

Kidd is about to get a new cellmate!

 

I really liked what happened.  It puts on full display the massive gap between Luffy and the Yonkou (specifically, Kaido).  I feel like Luffy (and some of the readers) got caught up in his recent feats and it got to his head.  Well, Luffy has always been like this but he was really feeling himself as of late.  It was just great.

 

- Luffy was in G4 and his durability was much higher.

- The news of Tama got him highly upset, so his G4 attacks had extra "oomph" to them.

- Kaido went back into his normal state.

- Kaido withstood numerous direct G4 attacks with no visible signs of damage.

- A single swing of Kaido's club had enough force to not only significantly harm a G4 Luffy, but also seemingly knock him out despite Luffy's massive endurance. 

 

The gap between the two is ridiculously large and I love it.  Luffy should not be a threat at all to a Yonkou at this point. 

 

I guess Big Mama is going to have to indirectly save Luffy and company. 

 

Did Kaido speed blitz him ??

I got the same implication.  It seemed like Luffy was either coming toward Kaido and couldn't react to his club swing in time, or Luffy was in a stationary position and Kaido rushed and blitzed him.

 

Crazy either way if that is what we are supposed to gather from that sequence. 


Edited by Ajh77, 02 November 2018 - 07:07 PM.

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#45 PunkHazard

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 07:42 PM

I'm dissapointed in the power gap a bit tbh. I mean Luffy puts everything in and it has basically no effect. If nothing mayor happens, then Luffy becomes the PK not by his own strength but by his ability to find people who team up with him. While the message that sends to kids might be good but it's not what I want from the MC.

agreed. Luffy has to beat Kaido by himself. I will be very upset if he ends up double teaming him wit law or Kidd or something
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#46 Kaidou

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 08:48 PM

Why does Luffy have to beat Kaidou in 1v1? Din't know to become Pirate King you had to be the strongest? Thats riduclous. Ofcourse it gives you an edge but i think Luffy's ability to have people follow him would be mutch more interesting then been the strongest. Hell him getting Kaidou's own crew to fight him would be mutch more imrpessive to be able to get people to follow you and as a team beat the strongest oponent.


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#47 Lucky Wolf

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 08:52 PM

I think that fat samurai might save luffy from a cell...? or bust them out since he noted some stuff was going to go down and wanted to stay. 



#48 PunkHazard

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 09:08 PM

Why does Luffy have to beat Kaidou in 1v1? Din't know to become Pirate King you had to be the strongest? Thats riduclous. Ofcourse it gives you an edge but i think Luffy's ability to have people follow him would be mutch more interesting then been the strongest. Hell him getting Kaidou's own crew to fight him would be mutch more imrpessive to be able to get people to follow you and as a team beat the strongest oponent.

come on. This is a shonen luffy has to end up the strongest. Its very unsatisfying if the Pirate King is weaker then someone else. Remember luffy wants to be the freest person. He cant be completely free till he can do watever and wherever he wants. And if he can only do that if he has backup, He isnt that free. So he jus has to hope he doesnt run into that person that is stronger then him wen he’s by himself in his sea? Being strong is the prerequisite, all that other stuff is jus extra.


Also why is it jus luffy that has to beat this bad guy in a team? Naruto beat Pain by himself, inchigo beat Aizen by himself, Gon beat pitou by himself, and in terms of who they are to the stories, Kaido is equivalent to them. So why does luffy have to be the only one to have to team up to beat his guy?

Edited by PunkHazard, 02 November 2018 - 09:24 PM.


#49 Kaidou

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 10:38 PM

come on. This is a shonen luffy has to end up the strongest. Its very unsatisfying if the Pirate King is weaker then someone else. Remember luffy wants to be the freest person. He cant be completely free till he can do watever and wherever he wants. And if he can only do that if he has backup, He isnt that free. So he jus has to hope he doesnt run into that person that is stronger then him wen he’s by himself in his sea? Being strong is the prerequisite, all that other stuff is jus extra.


Also why is it jus luffy that has to beat this bad guy in a team? Naruto beat Pain by himself, inchigo beat Aizen by himself, Gon beat pitou by himself, and in terms of who they are to the stories, Kaido is equivalent to them. So why does luffy have to be the only one to have to team up to beat his guy?

So you want it to end up like any other Shounen, specially garbage like Naruto and Bleach? Come on now. Gon and Pitou was diferent and no way her and pain compares to freaking Kaidou. So you want the predictable route of Luffy getting a stupid power up to beat him...


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#50 Shichibukai Ace

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 12:53 AM

Just finished reading. 

 

Man.... personally, this chapter really did it for me guys. 

 

Don't even know where to begin. From the start seeing Luffy knock down Kaidou and ramp up the punishment one hundred fold was just all too..... I don't even know. Amazing, hype, whatever you wanna call it, words cannot properly convey how exited I was when I saw Kaidou get knocked to the ground. 

 

BOUND MAN. You know, I feel comfortable enough sharing this with you all, my peers enjoying the same story week in, week out for so many years. Every single time I see Bound Man come out I let out an audible shout of excitement. Every time. And this time was no freaking different. Seeing Gear 4 come out and also get ramped up the absolute MAX RAGE I've ever seen out of Luffy was just too much. 

 

Oda.... literal manga panels are making this grown man's heart beat with the same excitement as quite a few adrenaline pumping moments. Like, I actually feel the intensity from Kong Organ and Luffy screaming out in rage, not knowing what happened to his crew. 

 

Kaidou getting knocked out of Dragon form..... this was a shocker. But as I said in the discussion sometime last week, once Kaidou goes to base form is when the Secret/Exotic Tech comes out, and sure enough we got our first taste of pure, close range Yonkou punishment. 

 

I personally thought it looked like Kaidou hit Luffy with CoC to get such a clean blow. No way Luffy gets out flashed/speed blitzed. Especially when he can see the future, was his observation even up? It looked like Kaidou hit him completely for free and that is not something Luffy should let happen at this stage. 

 

Props to Luffy for taking a Yonkou's named/secret attack and still remaining as a physical entity and not being ripped to literal shreds/straight up dying. 

 

This is the highest reviewed chapter for me personally, rated at a 9.8/10.

 

Probably the best fight I've personally seen in One Piece to date. And this was just round 1. Luffy vs. Kaidou is already shaping up to be the best fight, and it's actually being paced at 1v1. Honestly, Luffy can keep going, sure he's going to need high level assistance to evade and get to the next rounds but he's clearly the only person able to fight Kaidou 1v1 on this island right now, so we may as well have the fight keep going this way. But I don't know if Luffy can go more than three, mayyyybe four encounters with Kaidou before his body gives out. 

 

Another chapter goes by without Orochi's shadow even being in the background. Fascinating. Surely he'll be the first one to comment on the outcome of this battle taking place on his island, soon?


Edited by Shichibukai Ace, 03 November 2018 - 12:57 AM.

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#51 Fulmine

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 01:00 AM

Well since he was in Gear 4, he probly thought he had a chance since he's high diff for emperors in that state, right?

High-diff still means losing though and yeah, only in that state. The difference is Kaidou and Yonkiral in general are that strong by default. They are not limited to half an hour. So overall Luffy is mid-diff

 

 

 

...Fulmine says... :whistle:

This shit happens a lot.

 

Luffy Red Hawk DD in a double last page. Luffy Leo Bazooka DD in a double last page. Luffy Kong Gun Cracker etc. In fact, Luffy Elephant Gun Kaidou last chapter, also double page. Oda likes his stupid cliffhanger. What happens next chapter? LOL So hold your horse.

 

Not to mention Luffy is angry. No clue if his CoO that he improved thanks to Katakuri fight is working or not. Remember how Crocodile trashed Luffy twice? Then turned out Luffy's brawling is better than his in the 3rd time. Obviously plot is involved but still...

 

Besides Kaidou is WSC so he's not your average Emperor. For example when you say Supernova level, you mean someone in the middle as a measure stick. Makes no sense to use G4Luffy as the baseline.

 

 

 


I'm a bit disappointed though. At least BM bothered to lift her arm and use coa cmon kaidou do something!

You're disappointed a top-tier is being top-tier...you like Big Mom instead?

 

 


And boy it feels good to finally stop hearing "hurr hurr dd is yonkou level"

LOL no, until DD is at 100% and still loses terribly without match-up problem, that's not impossible yet. You guys still love power creep too much. Look at BM performance. She's not an Emperor? Also when Croc showed up and stood tall vs Jozu's blindsided CoA named attack you people should have known what fighting Luffy means and how One Piece places importance on willpower.


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#52 Shichibukai Ace

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 01:31 AM

Hmmm im a lil disappointed in this fight. I knew luffy was going to lose and i cant expect Oda to show too much in this initial skirmish but still I was kind of hoping more from Kaido then jus tanking everything and swinging his weapon(which literally came out of nowhere) just once. I was hoping we’d at least be able to see his hybrid form even if only for a second

 

Give it time, I think we're in for some pure, extreme action. I'm pumped, we still have Snake Man left as a technique and once Luffy gets his strength back he should be able to go round 2 without getting one shotted, or at least he'll be able to look out for that move since he already got hit with it once. 

 

This was just the teaser, once Kaidou's hybrid comes out is the real fight, but like you said it would have been nice to see it briefly, if even as a taunt. Looks like he wants to keep it hidden as long as possible.... maybe it's his best form.


 

Is organ his strongest move or king kong gun?

 

I like Organ over King Gun as a technique because with Organ there's less start up. But King Kong Gun seems like the stronger finishing blow, I bet if Luffy tried it here against Kaidou it may have been more effective.

 

I'd personally take Organ as the better technique. Looks like it can spammed freely and the power of it is able to keep Kaidou down for a moment (I know he took all the hits but the technique was still physically restraining even if temporarily.) And it looks like he can continue using Organ repeatedly for as long as G4 lasts, whereas we haven't seen if King Kong Gun can be used more than once in one move. 

 

I guess, Organ is the better/more viable technique for most situations, and King Kong Gun would be Luffy's strongest attack. 


Edited by Shichibukai Ace, 03 November 2018 - 01:07 AM.

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#53 PunkHazard

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 01:32 AM

So you want it to end up like any other Shounen, specially garbage like Naruto and Bleach? Come on now. Gon and Pitou was diferent and no way her and pain compares to freaking Kaidou. So you want the predictable route of Luffy getting a stupid power up to beat him...

ignoring your slander of naruto and bleach how is Pain and pitou not comparable to Kaido? They were some of the strongest and hyped up bad guys in the their respective series while not being the actual last boss. I think they are perfect comparison. And i get that you want something different from this shonen im jus saying i dont think its likely. This kind of thing is a staple of the genre.

But aside from even that I like it wen the main guy beats a super strong opponent in a cool way. Long as the powerup isnt something stupid like friendship (lookin at you fairy tail) then im all for it. Naruto had senjutsu, Gon had him trading his future to his nen, and Bleach had his final getsuga. You cant tell me that all those moments weren’t super awesome and some of the best moments in all their respective series.

Also I hate team up fights. It takes away from any one character so we never get the full hype of the situation

Edited by PunkHazard, 03 November 2018 - 01:40 AM.


#54 KUROkami

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 03:23 AM

Luffy is not at top performance.
He's angry, and not calm at all. His CoO is not remotely close to his real level.
He's afraid for his nakama. He doesn't know if they're alive. He's worried, and that makes his haki weaker.
He didn't use King Kong stuff.
He is most likely still going to fight one of the calamities or someone on/above Katakuri's level who will make him even stronger.

I never felt like Luffy would beat Kaidou though. Always felt like it would be BM = Fight a yonkou and lose, Kaidou = Fight a yonkou with help and win, BB = Fight a yonkou alone and win

And yes, Luffy will be PK mostly because of his ability to make everyone follow him. That's what being a king means.
He will also probably be the strongest pirate in the world by that time.

Reaching so hard you better be 6’8 in real life
 

I think that fat samurai might save luffy from a cell...? or bust them out since he noted some stuff was going to go down and wanted to stay.

Nah he’s fat , prob just trynna eat something
 
Lol why do you all think Liffey can’t get speed blitzed ? You’re basing that off ? What ? His Oppents so far ?!.....

Edited by KUROkami, 03 November 2018 - 03:24 AM.


#55 gametaka

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 05:11 AM

Luffy need to fight by any mean to beat Kaido for example cheating and get helped from his numerous ally.

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#56 Strobacaxi

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 05:34 AM


LOL no, until DD is at 100% and still loses terribly without match-up problem, that's not impossible yet.

 

Sure mate, keep telling yourself that LOL


Look at BM performance. She's not an Emperor?

I am. Luffy used G4 punched her once, did nothing to her and had to be removed from the fight by nakama.

Kinda different from DD no?


 


Also when Croc showed up and stood tall vs Jozu's blindsided CoA named attack you people should have known what fighting Luffy means and how One Piece places importance on willpower.

 

What does that have to do with DD? You're not going to tell me he's weakened because he's given up on life right?

Oh... and "stood tall" ahahah Sent flying away is what you probably mean


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#57 masterbio

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 05:55 AM

I always loved that fan art that shows Luffy, Law, Zoro, Sanji, Kidd, Appo and drake against Kaido. We really lack team battles in manga, and having Kaido being beaten like this would be amazing.

Let's all be real, Kaido has been and Emperor for how many years? It's logical that the older emperors be the strongest, like BM and Kaido, and I also find it logical that Luffy isn't able to overcome this gap. The emperors have more experience, more training, something that was built over decades!!!! Luffy overcoming huge gaps like these would take the respect out of Kaido.

But on the other hand, if the new generation would team up to fight him, it could send a new message to the world


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#58 Fulmine

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 06:17 AM


I am. Luffy used G4 punched her once, did nothing to her and had to be removed from the fight by nakama.

Kinda different from DD no?

Sanji had to drag him away because that's what they were trying to do. Escaping with everyone. Luffy even said he just wanted a hit in...Read manga LOL

 

Yes, the DD that had BC and organs fried, as well as hanging in the air without foothold. Not debating DD is as tough as BM of course, but you have no idea how well he would do if he was 100%. Also my point isn't DD=BM. It's BM did way worse than Kaidou yet still an Emperor. Clearly top-tier can be jobbers if plot and Luffy demand so...

 

 


What does that have to do with DD? You're not going to tell me he's weakened because he's given up on life right?

It means Shichibukai's performance vs Luffy has to be taken with an open mind. DD Parasite Jozu no problem yet we have people arguing Cracker is as strong as or stronger than DD. Oda has to give tension so that's why he off-screened and had Luffy ate his way out for 11 hours...

 

 


Oh... and "stood tall" ahahah Sent flying away is what you probably mean

And stood tall LOL. If DD didn't intercept how do you know Croc could not fight back?

 

BM being sent flying by Jinbe or Kaidou by Luffy or Jinbe by BM and all of them continued fighting no problem. But people are willing to ignore because they are blinded by the Emperor label or post-TS label. Biased as fuck. Jozu gave Croc a little injury. Nosebleed and some on forehead. If Jozu did Croc the same way Kaidou did Luffy or DD mutilated Law's arm you may have a point. It's also a blindsided attack even. Let see Jozu managed that when fighting Croc face-to-face then we can talk.


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#59 Strobacaxi

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 07:30 AM


Sanji had to drag him away because that's what they were trying to do. Escaping with everyone. Luffy even said he just wanted a hit in...Read manga LOL

No. Sanji didn't have to drag him away because they were trying to escape. He had to drag him away because Luffy could barely move. If the point was only to escape, Luffy could've ran by himself. He's not a princess in distress who needs the big man to pick him up so they can go faster is he? Read manga LOL

 


It means Shichibukai's performance vs Luffy has to be taken with an open mind. DD Parasite Jozu no problem yet we have people arguing Cracker is as strong as or stronger than DD. Oda has to give tension so that's why he off-screened and had Luffy ate his way out for 11 hours...

 

No evidence of Jozu trying to escape. That's the point of that debate. 

 


And stood tall LOL. If DD didn't intercept how do you know Croc could not fight back?

 

 

"that was big... and fast... I'm out"


BM being sent flying by Jinbe or Kaidou by Luffy or Jinbe by BM and all of them continued fighting no problem. But people are willing to ignore because they are blinded by the Emperor label or post-TS label. Biased as fuck. Jozu gave Croc a little injury. Nosebleed and some on forehead. If Jozu did Croc the same way Kaidou did Luffy or DD mutilated Law's arm you may have a point. It's also a blindsided attack even. Let see Jozu managed that when fighting Croc face-to-face then we can talk.

 

Yep, that's not how croc felt.


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#60 Ajh77

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 07:32 AM

I personally thought it looked like Kaidou hit Luffy with CoC to get such a clean blow. No way Luffy gets out flashed/speed blitzed. Especially when he can see the future, was his observation even up? It looked like Kaidou hit him completely for free and that is not something Luffy should let happen at this stage. 

 

I think that is exactly what happened though.  As you said yourself, Luffy wouldn't just let an opponent hit him freely.  He dodges and blocks attacks all the time -- he just couldn't here.  I don't think CoC was part of it either.  It is possible Kaido put CoC in his attack (given the black lines around the impact), but I don't think Luffy was froze by CoC.  If he was, however, that just goes back to the point of Kaido being so overwhelmingly above Luffy in the first place. 

 

With Observation, Katakuri said you have to remain calm to utilize CoO effectively, so that was out the window for Luffy in his current state.  Even if he was able to use CoO/Futuresight, that doesn't necessarily mean Luffy had the reflexes to handle what he saw coming.  We also can't be sure of Luffy's level of Futuresight at this point.  I don't think we can assume his is as good as Katakuri's already, someone who seemingly trained years to get his sight to that level.


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Sajin Komamura - "I won't tell you not to hate me. I won't tell you not to bear a grudge against me. All I ask is that you don't sacrifice yourself for the sake of revenge. If you were to do that, and I were to lose you, like you lost your friend, it would break my heart."

 

Tousen Kaname - "...Thank you...Komamura."





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