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One Piece Chapter 923 Discussion


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#121 PunkHazard

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 12:21 AM

When has Luffy ever respected the power gap in his enemies? Off of fame alone? His attack backfired, and maybe (probably) it was stupid, but it's a Luffy thing to do after seeing Kaido blast his friends. Luffy isn't even sure if they're alive currently.

I just don't understand why people are so convinced that Luffy is even aware that there is a power gap. Like you said the only reason Luffy could possibly think someone is stronger than him is off fame alone. And Luffy doesn't care about that nor should he. Now if One piece had power levels then it would be a completely different story. He's beat alooooot of people that were more famous than him at the time. He's beat aloooot of people who everyone said he had no chance against. So why is he suddenly arrogant and stupid for doing what he's been doing and succeeding in since the very beginning of the manga? 


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#122 PunkHazard

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 01:57 AM

No, you don't. You skim it or just look at it and forget. That's why you can't even think of stuffs that have canonically happened in the manga that I listed as ways to gain more info on opponent

Wait you didnt give an example of a time Luffy gained info on a person before he fought them and used that to make a plan based on their abilities. You said Luffy knew about BM having the soul fruit.......ok and? How did that info help or hurt him in any kind of way? He still just rushed in to fight her like he would have done if he didnt know. You mentioned Franky figuring out the colosseum fight was for the fire fruit.......what does that have to do with anything? It doesn't relate to actually winning a fight in any kind of way


Nice Strawman!


First of all, I'm not arguing it's not in-character, I'm arguing it's dumb and that's what you are arguing against, too, so don't twist it into me having problem with Luffy's character.


Second, who said Luffy had to be the one making plan? Law and the samurai are there LOL Just like when Luffy went along with Capone's plan to assassinate BM.


So basically, yep, you don't read One Piece!


Ugh I was just making a point that it was in character for luffy and I find it weird yall are complaining about something he's been doing since the first chapter. Wasn't trying to twist anything. Was just making a separate point. People are allowed to think 2 things.....


So again thats why I blame Law, instead of trying to stop Luffy he should have joined in the fight and tried to think of way to beat Kaido. They were given a golden opportunity so as the brains of the 2 it was his responsibility to figure out something. Luffy as the brawn of the 2 did his job


I don't know what they have to offer, but it's also not like I know they have nothing of worth, because frankly Luffy didn't even go through asking them so of course I don't. Hence my point: that's precisely why you should sit back and listen first to see if there's any valuable info before making your decision.


You asked for ways of gathering info and I gave you a few. Now you are refuted you tried the ''I don't think that would work anw'' route but okay, then prove it! Prove that absolutely no one on Wano, friend or foe, could have given Luffy any valuable info. Burden of proof is on you.



Also I like how you completely ignore the part about gathering info from samurai who have fought Kaidou 20 years ago LOL Can't find a way to dance around it, eh?


And if he had missed a valuable opportunity because he "sat back and listened" then oh well? That just doesn't sound smart to me. For all they know this is the one and only time kaido will be by himself. At this point any info gathering and planning goes out the window wen things start moving fast.


Your right there is no way to prove for sure that there's no one who could provide valuable info, I just find it very very unlikely. What could these samurais say besides "Oh he's really strong and fast and can turn into a dragon" I guess they can say "he likes to start off with a right hook" but I dont really think that will help luffy much. They could say "Kaido likes to blow fire to attack" but Luffy saw and reacted to that just fine. It would have been different if kaido beat Luffy with some sort of jojo's bizarre adventure or HxH like power, then yea I would agree that the more info about those kinds of powers the better, but thats not what happened, Kaido beat luffy cause he was faster and stronger than luffy, there is nothing someone could tell luffy that would convince him that that's even true and nothing they could say that would help him not be weaker and slower then Kaido. And any info they could have got about kaido’s currently unknown abilities would have been pointless cause in the end thats not wat kaido used to beat luffy this time around

Yep, more confirmation you don't read One Piece. Reread and see they made that plan. The only thing that was in the moment is Luffy attacking Law before Law gave the signal. The combo itself is planned


Ok fair enough.

They just met again...after Luffy made a huge mess in Bakura town. And then Law gave the SHs ''personal'' time to catch up and listen to Kin'emon's old story and Kaidou showed up right there and then. There was no chance for Law to sit down and have a proper plan meeting. So not only long-ago chapters but you don't read the recent chapters, too?


Again my point was that why would they pass up a golden opportunity, Law should have told him instead of listening to kinnemon if it was that important, but it's definitely not the time to talk when your opportunity just falls in your lap like that. When Shit hits the fans Whatever Law was planning he should have threw out the window and began thinking of something in the moment. It makes no sense to pass up a golden opportunity just because it didn't fit into your plans, roll with the punches, be flexible when life happens

Again, don't be obtuse! It's an example. You don't have to take it 100% literally LOL There may be no recording but there can be information.


Sure, after being prepared. He didn't do that though. Just hot-headed-ly charge in


And my question is what information? How could he be prepared? Im not even being sarcastic Im just asking about one example of some information he could get or a way he can prepare himself to fight a guy who was just faster and stronger then he was. Do you honestly believe Kaido has some major weakness that Luffy could exploit besides being a drunk? I honestly don't think he does. I mean BM didnt (yea destroying the picture made her have a temper tantrum so ideally thats a weakness but as we all saw that did nothing towards her actual fighting strength so it was pointless), DD didnt, none of the admirals do.That's not a theme in this manga. Kaido is strong and fast and can turn into a dragon. Someone could have told him "kaido is pretty slow wen he's in his dragon form" but thats obviously something he saw for himself. Or "he's really strong and can tank most attacks" but do you honestly think that would have stopped Luffy from trying? or doing anything different then what he did? Someone could have said "kaido has strong haki" but there's no way for that person to know for sure if kaido's haki is stronger than luffy's. Wen someone is jus stronger then you in pure specs, theres not much information can do to help or change that

Doesn't mean it is useless. And again, Luffy doesn't have to be the one processing them. Law and co are there...


And thats why I keep saying Im more mad at Law then Luffy


Yes, unless. So prove to me how that ''unless'' is impossible? If you can't then you admit it's dumb.



Sure, people want to win. How they prepare is what's being debated here though


Wait what? Yes it is impossible for anyone to know exactly how strong luffy is in every situation and exactly how strong kaido is in every situation, how there DFs match up in every situation and how they compare to each other in every conceivable situation and every possible outcome to any and every possible fight between the 2. That is completely and utterly impossible for anyone to know for sure.


Did I ever say he's not dumb? LOL


But in this case, the guy is strong and top-tier for one. So there's basis for confidence. Second, he also knows the SHs got away from BM instead of beating her thanks to newspaper. Being as strong as he is and even is an old acquaintance and direct competitor of BM, he should know BM's prowess. So it's not hard for him to deduce Luffy is not that big a threat to him as of now


Luffy on the other hand barely beat Katakuri...and he thought he could beat an Emperor who is much stronger right away? Did he break the 4th wall and is aware Oda would give him plot-armor?


I like how you reduce every situation to a most oversimplified version of it (''they are just two guys being confident in beating enemy'') and pretend they are the same...

Luffy is strong and top tier. He has no reason to think he's weaker then Kaido besides hype and fame, 2 things that we know don't really matter. No, the news paper just reported that he attacked BM and beat her top commanders, remember BM was even mad cause it inferred that she lost to Luffy, so kaido has no indication of how strong he is just based off the news paper.

The 2 situations are the same from the perspective of the in manga characters. See yall problem is that yall are too aware of the lvls Oda puts on things. Yall are looking from a birds eye view instead of looking at it from their perspectives. What possible reason would Luffy have to think that kaido is alot stronger then Kata? Cause Kaido is more famous and has a bigger bounty? Cause kaido has alot of people working for him? Cause kaido is the captain of his crew? Cause kaido is a yonkou like luffy? Cause kaido is considered equal to BM? Luffy didnt even fight BM either so there's always the chance that kata grew stronger then his mother at some point in time (which happens in real life actually) and just stays as her subordinate cause that's his mother and he loves her. Hell its even been said Kata has never lost a fight before Luffy while Kaido has literally lost and been caught dozens of times. Couldn't that be looked at as a reason to think Kata is stronger from their perspectives?

Now we know that's not true just cause we know how this whole shonen setup works, but there is no way luffy could possibly know these things for sure. Status, fame, bounty, influence, hierarchy, none of it matters wen it comes to strength, and the only way to know exactly how you stack up to someone is to fight them yourself. Not "oh he's just the first mate so he must be weaker than a captain" you know how silly that sounds from their perspective? Especially since there are plenty of cases where someone of lower rank was stronger then someone with a higher rank. Think about if you heard that in real life. "Oh that guy with one arm and a peg leg is the Captain of this navy ship so he must be able to beat up that much bigger and more muscular guy cause he's just the first mate"

Edited by PunkHazard, 07 November 2018 - 09:17 AM.


#123 Ajh77

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 06:11 AM

I just don't understand why people are so convinced that Luffy is even aware that there is a power gap. Like you said the only reason Luffy could possibly think someone is stronger than him is off fame alone. And Luffy doesn't care about that nor should he. Now if One piece had power levels then it would be a completely different story. He's beat alooooot of people that were more famous than him at the time. He's beat aloooot of people who everyone said he had no chance against. So why is he suddenly arrogant and stupid for doing what he's been doing and succeeding in since the very beginning of the manga? 

Luffy had experience to use as well.  He attacked Big Mama and did nothing to her with an attack from his strongest form.  Luffy has also commented on opponent's power before and acknowledged when someone looked strong.  

 

Luffy is going to Luffy.  This is especially the case when he is upset like he was.  It was stupid, but it made sense given Luffy's character and his state of mind.  I think over time, however, he will eventually get better control of when to lash out like that.  There is a time and place for everything.  With this Kaido situation, for example, he didn't know if his crew was dead or not (or their condition if they were alive), that was his first time ever seeing Kaido, etc...  There were just other things to prioritize over fighting Kaido in that moment.   


Edited by Ajh77, 07 November 2018 - 06:15 AM.

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Sajin Komamura - "I won't tell you not to hate me. I won't tell you not to bear a grudge against me. All I ask is that you don't sacrifice yourself for the sake of revenge. If you were to do that, and I were to lose you, like you lost your friend, it would break my heart."

 

Tousen Kaname - "...Thank you...Komamura."


#124 PunkHazard

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 08:54 AM

Luffy had experience to use as well. He attacked Big Mama and did nothing to her with an attack from his strongest form. Luffy has also commented on opponent's power before and acknowledged when someone looked strong.

Luffy is going to Luffy. This is especially the case when he is upset like he was. It was stupid, but it made sense given Luffy's character and his state of mind. I think over time, however, he will eventually get better control of when to lash out like that. There is a time and place for everything. With this Kaido situation, for example, he didn't know if his crew was dead or not (or their condition if they were alive), that was his first time ever seeing Kaido, etc... There were just other things to prioritize over fighting Kaido in that moment.

yea luffy can tell wen someone is strong but again he has no reason to think they are stronger then him. Your saying jus cause BM blocked one of strongest attack he should know that yonkous are out of his league? Sorry but that doesn’t really make sense. Kata literally easily handled all of luffy’s best attacks in the beginning remember? Even gear 4 was easily dealt with at first. But luffy still ended up winning. Blocking one attack is not an indication of wether or not you will lose to someone

It wasnt stupid. Cause this was the BEST time and place. When your enemy comes out ALONE and he is DRUNK, it literally doesn’t get better then that wen your in a war. It makes no sense to hold off on fighting someone in his weakened state just to wait till later wen he’s surrounded by his whole crew. It has nothing to do with his crew possibly being hurt or dead, if they werent dead then it wouldnt have mattered anw and if they were dead then thats even more of a reason to beat kaido right then and there. And it has nothing to do with this being their first time seeing him, he cant waste an opportunity cause he’s too scared to challenge the guy he was ultimately going to have to fight anyway. This was a golden opportunity that he was blessed with that would have saved everyone so much time and effort and possibly prevented any future deaths if he had not fumbled the bag

Jus think how much easier it would have been in dressrosa if DD had jus met them at the entrace to the island instead of them having to fight their way up the platau. Way less time wasted and way less collateral damage.

I feel the only reason you all refuse to acknowledge the many benefits luffys idea had is because yall know how hyped kaido is and how unlikely it was for luffy to win jus based off shonen story telling standards. But thats not a legit excuse for luffy to not try. Cause obviously he doesn’t know shounen standard. Remember wen the rookie pirate fresh out of east blue went to fight Crocodile one of the 7 warlords? How everyone thought it was impossible for luffy to beat a world famous pirate? Remember wat happened there? So obviously luffy knows wat he’s doing. If his method works for him i say stop trying to critique it and jus believe in him. The only difference between those 2 situations is you alls prospective on Kaido. Which is obviously biased cause again we understand how shounen works and theres no way yall can expect luffy to have the same perspective.

#125 durra072

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:41 AM

It's not just us, it's everyone and everything, including the OP universe knows that what Luffy just did puts him at top of the dumbest characters 2018.

You're just refusing to see that it's dumb because "hurr durr, it's a shounen, screw character development let him be dumb".
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#126 Abaroxa

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 10:39 AM

Then what was he supposed to do.
Luffys miles stronger than all his allies.
The last time he tried to do a 2vs1 with law, he end up doing the whole thing alone.
What was Luffy suppose to do now that 50 of his allies are gone. Wait for the fire festival where kaido will be surrounded by all his goon's.
Luffy f*cked up when he punched Holden. He didn't fucked up this chapter. He took his chances and failed. That's it.
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#127 durra072

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 11:19 AM

Then what was he supposed to do.
Luffys miles stronger than all his allies.
The last time he tried to do a 2vs1 with law, he end up doing the whole thing alone.
What was Luffy suppose to do now that 50 of his allies are gone. Wait for the fire festival where kaido will be surrounded by all his goon's.
Luffy f*cked up when he punched Holden. He didn't fucked up this chapter. He took his chances and failed. That's it.


1. Stick to the plan and not get humiliated.
2. No, he's not miles stronger than ALL of his allies, how did you even come to that conclusion? Might as well go solo as he's, according to you, stronger than all of them anyways.
3. You're saying he solo'd DD? Really? Are we gonna go trough this yet again?
4. You're saying 50 of his allies are gone, but you also say he doesn't need any of them anyway as he's "Miles" stronger so why bring up that point if it contradicts your first point?

You need to take Luffy off of that pedestal you put him on and realise he just f*cked up. Badly. So bad, like there's no words for his stupidity last chapter.
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#128 PunkHazard

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 01:25 PM

It's not just us, it's everyone and everything, including the OP universe knows that what Luffy just did puts him at top of the dumbest characters 2018.

You're just refusing to see that it's dumb because "hurr durr, it's a shounen, screw character development let him be dumb".

again your not explaining wat makes it dumb. Every reason you’ve given I’ve refuted and you refuse to acknowledge any of my points
 

1. Stick to the plan and not get humiliated.
2. No, he's not miles stronger than ALL of his allies, how did you even come to that conclusion? Might as well go solo as he's, according to you, stronger than all of them anyways.
3. You're saying he solo'd DD? Really? Are we gonna go trough this yet again?
4. You're saying 50 of his allies are gone, but you also say he doesn't need any of them anyway as he's "Miles" stronger so why bring up that point if it contradicts your first point?

You need to take Luffy off of that pedestal you put him on and realise he just f*cked up. Badly. So bad, like there's no words for his stupidity last chapter.

1. Its dumb to ignore a golden opportunity cause its not part of the plan. U cannot explain how that makes sense

2.not miles but he’s obviously the strongest one in the entire alliance(especially since marco is not joining them) and everyone of them knows it. are u refuting that? If not that why even dsagree with his statement?

3. Even if luffy didnt beat DD by himself we know for damn sure Law cant beat DD by himself. And whether or not luffy can beat him by himself is still up in the air. But i think we all can agree that he has a way better chance then Law. Do u disagree wit that?

Again u keep saying he’s dumb but every reason i give you why it wasnt dumb u jus ignore.
 

Then what was he supposed to do.
Luffys miles stronger than all his allies.
The last time he tried to do a 2vs1 with law, he end up doing the whole thing alone.
What was Luffy suppose to do now that 50 of his allies are gone. Wait for the fire festival where kaido will be surrounded by all his goon's.
Luffy f*cked up when he punched Holden. He didn't fucked up this chapter. He took his chances and failed. That's it.

Exactly! Like he said if he beat kaido right then and there all the planning and all that extra stuff wouldnt matter. And the Goons part is the most important part to me but it seems like everyone else jus keeps ignoring that factor

Hell even if luffy was to die here its not like they couldn’t continue the plan without him. Since the plan is so all powerful and all knowing and has no chance of not working apparently. So wat was the big down side to him trying anyway?

Edited by PunkHazard, 07 November 2018 - 01:27 PM.

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#129 Frankenstein

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 06:29 PM

My point is their lives are in danger anyway. Its just a matter if he defeats him now or later. If they wait for this so called plan and luffy fails, they will still all die. There's no difference in danger lvl if luffy had not attacked. So why do you keep saying that?

 

There's no way they can expect to find themselves in a situation where it's the whole alliance against just kaido. If that's somehow Law's plan he's an idiot. The only reason they made an army in the first place was to deal with Kaido's army. So it's going to be army vs army. again that's the best they can hope for. So your saying it's better to wait till kaido is surrounded by his crew drunk or not then to take him on alone while he's drunk? I just don't agree with that logic. There's a way higher chance of success with less variables if he's alone as opposed to an entire army with many different and strong people.

 

How about I use this example then, lets say u must kill a very big Crime lord, he has a giant criminal organization with alot of people and influence. You know there's no way you can kill him by yourself so you spend years amassing a giant organization of your own to deal with him. And wen you think you finally have enough money, manpower and resources You challenge him to war on his turf. So he begins to gather his forces and so do you. And the day before the fateful battle between yall you just happen to see the very same Big crime lord that you have to kill by himself drinking at a bar. Are you really telling me it makes more sense to wait till tomorrow for the big war that could kill alot of your friends and you still might not win, then to try to kill him right then and there? Me personally I would rather risk killing him by myself. He might turn out to have his gun on him and could possibly still end up killing me instead, But i think it makes a whole lot more sense to try. Rather then not try and wait for some big war with all his men just cause Im scared of the possibility of losing 1 on 1.

There is a difference in danger level, that's the whole point of the plan. Why did Capone come up with a plan to take out BM if he could just walk up to her as her subordinate? Because you can't just kill a Yonko. Not only is Kaido a Yonko, he's known as the one person in the world that can't be beaten. Luffy knows this. Luffy also knows he's not as strong as BM. So he definitely knows he can't beat Kaido, or at least he should know. Which is why this was stupid. He could have just left with Law after that first hit but he decided to stay and look at what happened. You can say that I'm only saying that because of the outcome but the point is that was always going to be the outcome and we KNEW that. Not just us readers but the people inside the OP verse knew that as well. Him reacting to his emotions doesn't mean it wasn't dumb.



#130 Mr Love

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 07:27 PM

It's not just us, it's everyone and everything, including the OP universe knows that what Luffy just did puts him at top of the dumbest characters 2018.

You're just refusing to see that it's dumb because "hurr durr, it's a shounen, screw character development let him be dumb".

 

Oda's writing is to blame for that. Him not improving the main character/s personality (and intelligence) after the time skip was a big mistake on his part. 


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#131 Fulmine

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 03:15 AM


Wait you didnt give an example of a time Luffy gained info on a person before he fought them and used that to make a plan based on their abilities.

 

Do I need to? Haha, another change in argument after being refuted. You said

 

 


no that example doesnt work cause theres no research and no way to become “more knowledgeable” about kaidos strength like there is wen investing in a business. Is he supposed to take a poll? Field data? Interview all the people whos fought kaido? Obviously not. Theres no way luffy can know how strong kaido is until he actually fights him

So I gave you methods to do that. I didn't need to give you examples of Luffy's planning. For the umpteenth time, I'm arguing what he did is dumb and you know it since you have been saying it's not dumb yourself. I'm not arguing what Luffy did isn't in-character. Exactly, he never/rarely plans, that's why he's dumb. Am I saying otherwise? Nope!

 

Stop doing Strawman and forgetting your original argument LOL

 

 

 

 


You said Luffy knew about BM having the soul fruit.......ok and? How did that info help or hurt him in any kind of way? He still just rushed in to fight her like he would have done if he didnt know.

Luffy rushed to BM to give her just one hit. He said it himself because BM provoked him. Overall he still sticks to the plan of escaping and to begin with, he went with Capone's plan knowing BM's weakness of being weakened due to Caramel's photo's breaking.

 

 

 

 


You mentioned Franky figuring out the colosseum fight was for the fire fruit.......what does that have to do with anything? It doesn't relate to actually winning a fight in any kind of way

Again, don't be obtuse! That's just an example of kidnapping the enemy's crew member/underling to extract info. What they can extract remains to be seen.

 

So now you stoop to pretending you don't know what the example means?

 

 

 

 


Ugh I was just making a point that it was in character for luffy and I find it weird yall are complaining about something he's been doing since the first chapter. Wasn't trying to twist anything. Was just making a separate point. People are allowed to think 2 things.....

How does the fact that it's been like that since chapter 1 make it weird for us to complain he's dumb? I don't know dumbness is something you should ignore just because it happens a lot, sorry. Cool ideal!

 

 

 

 


And if he had missed a valuable opportunity because he "sat back and listened" then oh well? That just doesn't sound smart to me. For all they know this is the one and only time kaido will be by himself. At this point any info gathering and planning goes out the window wen things start moving fast.

Back to the same business analogy. This is just banking on luck and being right in hindsight LOL

 

 

 

 


Your right there is no way to prove for sure that there's no one who could provide valuable info, I just find it very very unlikely. What could these samurais say besides "Oh he's really strong and fast and can turn into a dragon" I guess they can say "he likes to start off with a right hook" but I dont really think that will help luffy much. They could say "Kaido likes to blow fire to attack" but Luffy saw and reacted to that just fine. It would have been different if kaido beat Luffy with some sort of jojo's bizarre adventure or HxH like power, then yea I would agree that the more info about those kinds of powers the better, but thats not what happened, Kaido beat luffy cause he was faster and stronger than luffy, there is nothing someone could tell luffy that would convince him that that's even true and nothing they could say that would help him not be weaker and slower then Kaido. And any info they could have got about kaido’s currently unknown abilities would have been pointless cause in the end thats not wat kaido used to beat luffy this time around

It's not like only powers from Jojo and HxH are hax or special. Something like Jola or Sugar's are trouble enough. Immensely. That's why Oda has to use Usopp and Brook to plot/gag-force them away.

 

 

 

 


Law should have told him instead of listening to kinnemon if it was that important

Because there was no emergency situation and the plan was to be taken in another 2 weeks so Law probably thought he could just let the SHs have some good time then they could discuss it in dinner or something.

 

It's important, but not immediate problem.

 

If Nami is on deathbed and will die in 5 minutes and Law needs medicine X and tool Y to do surgery for her, now that is a situation where he needs to tell Luffy right away what he needs for Luffy to go get them...

 

 

 

 


Im just asking about one example of some information he could get or a way he can prepare himself to fight a guy who was just faster and stronger then he was.

On certain days his dragon power cannot be used for example. We still don't know if he's a Dragon Zoan or an actual dragon or something else.

 

Or he would be severely drunk on certain, even worse than today.

 

Or it's just gathering more info for the plan in general to make sure they could gang-up on Kaidou without interference

 

etc.

 

 

 

 


Do you honestly believe Kaido has some major weakness that Luffy could exploit besides being a drunk?

It's not about believing, I just consider possibility and be prepared. That's what planning is. If you already know what's up then there's no need for planning LOL

 

 

 

 


And thats why I keep saying Im more mad at Law then Luffy

That has nothing to do with him. Why should he join Luffy and risk both dying there? He can still swap Luffy away if shit gets bad and escape.

 

 

 

 


Yes it is impossible for anyone to know exactly how strong luffy is in every situation and exactly how strong kaido is in every situation, how there DFs match up in every situation and how they compare to each other in every conceivable situation and every possible outcome to any and every possible fight between the 2. That is completely and utterly impossible for anyone to know for sure.

Why does it have to be ''every situation''? Now you're just demanding fail-proof plan LOL And why the fuck do they have to know about Luffy? Just Kaidou! Do you follow the conversation?
 

 

 

 

 


and top tier

No, he isn't. He barely beat Katakuri LOL

 

 

 

 


2 things that we know don't really matter.

Sure, in telling for sure how strong someone is. But that doesn't mean they can't be true.

 

 

 

 


No, the news paper just reported that he attacked BM and beat her top commanders, remember BM was even mad cause it inferred that she lost to Luffy, so kaido has no indication of how strong he is just based off the news paper.

Yes, beat Commanders, not BM LOL.

 

Again, read! I said ''SHs got away instead of beating her''. Kaidou talked to BM on Den Den Mushi later. He knows she is mad because the newspaper exaggerated.

 

 

 


from the perspective of the in manga characters

LOL what? Except Luffy, Kid and maybe Zolo how many dumbfucks in this arc think you can just walk up and punch an Emperor and beat him/her at this level?

 

 

 

 


What possible reason would Luffy have to think that kaido is alot stronger then Kata? Cause Kaido is more famous and has a bigger bounty? Cause kaido has alot of people working for him? Cause kaido is the captain of his crew? Cause kaido is a yonkou like luffy? Cause kaido is considered equal to BM? Luffy didnt even fight BM either so there's always the chance that kata grew stronger then his mother at some point in time (which happens in real life actually) and just stays as her subordinate cause that's his mother and he loves her. Hell its even been said Kata has never lost a fight before Luffy while Kaido has literally lost and been caught dozens of times. Couldn't that be looked at as a reason to think Kata is stronger from their perspectives?
 

Is that why Luffy even singled out Emperors and Admirals in his speech to Fuji? LOL Now suddenly Commanders are on same level. Nice try!

 

And I like how you can put effort into thinking up a lot of possible scenarios for your stance yet fail to see how if all those are wrong and Kaidou is indeed fucking strong then what? That's what planning is. You don't have to belittle yourself but be prepared as well as you can.

 

Also you just said ''from perspective of characters and not readers'', yet brought up the fact that Kaidou lost several times which is never told to Luffy and only said to us readers in omnipotent narrative in square box dialogue. Good logic! :laugh:

 

 

 

 


but there is no way luffy could possibly know these things for sure

Yep, hence planning and preparing LOL

 

 

 

 


Status, fame, bounty, influence, hierarchy, none of it matters wen it comes to strength, and the only way to know exactly how you stack up to someone is to fight them yourself. Not "oh he's just the first mate so he must be weaker than a captain" you know how silly that sounds from their perspective? Especially since there are plenty of cases where someone of lower rank was stronger then someone with a higher rank. Think about if you heard that in real life. "Oh that guy with one arm and a peg leg is the Captain of this navy ship so he must be able to beat up that much bigger and more muscular guy cause he's just the first mate"

Actual valuable info about one's ability and organization matters LOL

 

So now you're just pretending your headcanon that is no one can say any valuable info is true? Great! Real life sure is easy.

 

Also explain to me if nothing matters then why Luffy even listened to Capone talking about BM's weakness and agreed with a plan to take her down instead of just facing her 1vs1 for LOL?


Edited by Fulmine, 08 November 2018 - 03:18 AM.

Spoiler Favorite male characters in manga/hwa/hua

#132 captain kidd

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 12:55 PM

When has Luffy ever respected the power gap in his enemies? Off of fame alone? His attack backfired, and maybe (probably) it was stupid, but it's a Luffy thing to do after seeing Kaido blast his friends. Luffy isn't even sure if they're alive currently.


Glad you asked.

Kizaru.

When luffy was in SA he told his crew to run because he they cant win against their enemies. Kizaru being there was the sole reason he made that call. Luffy had no experience with how powerful kizaru was so it was the fact kizaru was an admiral lone that made luffy respect his power.


But i agree with you, i was actually going to be really unhappy if luffy DIDN'T attack kiadou.
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#133 Strobacaxi

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 03:05 PM

Glad you asked.

Kizaru.

When luffy was in SA he told his crew to run because he they cant win against their enemies. Kizaru being there was the sole reason he made that call. Luffy had no experience with how powerful kizaru was so it was the fact kizaru was an admiral lone that made luffy respect his power.


But i agree with you, i was actually going to be really unhappy if luffy DIDN'T attack kiadou.

How was Kizaru being there the sole reason Luffy made that call when Luffy made that call before Kizaru even arrived?

 

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They ran because they knew they would be extremely injured if they fought another pacifista.


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