Wait you didnt give an example of a time Luffy gained info on a person before he fought them and used that to make a plan based on their abilities.
Do I need to? Haha, another change in argument after being refuted. You said
no that example doesnt work cause theres no research and no way to become “more knowledgeable” about kaidos strength like there is wen investing in a business. Is he supposed to take a poll? Field data? Interview all the people whos fought kaido? Obviously not. Theres no way luffy can know how strong kaido is until he actually fights him
So I gave you methods to do that. I didn't need to give you examples of Luffy's planning. For the umpteenth time, I'm arguing what he did is dumb and you know it since you have been saying it's not dumb yourself. I'm not arguing what Luffy did isn't in-character. Exactly, he never/rarely plans, that's why he's dumb. Am I saying otherwise? Nope!
Stop doing Strawman and forgetting your original argument LOL
You said Luffy knew about BM having the soul fruit.......ok and? How did that info help or hurt him in any kind of way? He still just rushed in to fight her like he would have done if he didnt know.
Luffy rushed to BM to give her just one hit. He said it himself because BM provoked him. Overall he still sticks to the plan of escaping and to begin with, he went with Capone's plan knowing BM's weakness of being weakened due to Caramel's photo's breaking.
You mentioned Franky figuring out the colosseum fight was for the fire fruit.......what does that have to do with anything? It doesn't relate to actually winning a fight in any kind of way
Again, don't be obtuse! That's just an example of kidnapping the enemy's crew member/underling to extract info. What they can extract remains to be seen.
So now you stoop to pretending you don't know what the example means?
Ugh I was just making a point that it was in character for luffy and I find it weird yall are complaining about something he's been doing since the first chapter. Wasn't trying to twist anything. Was just making a separate point. People are allowed to think 2 things.....
How does the fact that it's been like that since chapter 1 make it weird for us to complain he's dumb? I don't know dumbness is something you should ignore just because it happens a lot, sorry. Cool ideal!
And if he had missed a valuable opportunity because he "sat back and listened" then oh well? That just doesn't sound smart to me. For all they know this is the one and only time kaido will be by himself. At this point any info gathering and planning goes out the window wen things start moving fast.
Back to the same business analogy. This is just banking on luck and being right in hindsight LOL
Your right there is no way to prove for sure that there's no one who could provide valuable info, I just find it very very unlikely. What could these samurais say besides "Oh he's really strong and fast and can turn into a dragon" I guess they can say "he likes to start off with a right hook" but I dont really think that will help luffy much. They could say "Kaido likes to blow fire to attack" but Luffy saw and reacted to that just fine. It would have been different if kaido beat Luffy with some sort of jojo's bizarre adventure or HxH like power, then yea I would agree that the more info about those kinds of powers the better, but thats not what happened, Kaido beat luffy cause he was faster and stronger than luffy, there is nothing someone could tell luffy that would convince him that that's even true and nothing they could say that would help him not be weaker and slower then Kaido. And any info they could have got about kaido’s currently unknown abilities would have been pointless cause in the end thats not wat kaido used to beat luffy this time around
It's not like only powers from Jojo and HxH are hax or special. Something like Jola or Sugar's are trouble enough. Immensely. That's why Oda has to use Usopp and Brook to plot/gag-force them away.
Law should have told him instead of listening to kinnemon if it was that important
Because there was no emergency situation and the plan was to be taken in another 2 weeks so Law probably thought he could just let the SHs have some good time then they could discuss it in dinner or something.
It's important, but not immediate problem.
If Nami is on deathbed and will die in 5 minutes and Law needs medicine X and tool Y to do surgery for her, now that is a situation where he needs to tell Luffy right away what he needs for Luffy to go get them...
Im just asking about one example of some information he could get or a way he can prepare himself to fight a guy who was just faster and stronger then he was.
On certain days his dragon power cannot be used for example. We still don't know if he's a Dragon Zoan or an actual dragon or something else.
Or he would be severely drunk on certain, even worse than today.
Or it's just gathering more info for the plan in general to make sure they could gang-up on Kaidou without interference
Do you honestly believe Kaido has some major weakness that Luffy could exploit besides being a drunk?
It's not about believing, I just consider possibility and be prepared. That's what planning is. If you already know what's up then there's no need for planning LOL
And thats why I keep saying Im more mad at Law then Luffy
That has nothing to do with him. Why should he join Luffy and risk both dying there? He can still swap Luffy away if shit gets bad and escape.
Yes it is impossible for anyone to know exactly how strong luffy is in every situation and exactly how strong kaido is in every situation, how there DFs match up in every situation and how they compare to each other in every conceivable situation and every possible outcome to any and every possible fight between the 2. That is completely and utterly impossible for anyone to know for sure.
Why does it have to be ''every situation''? Now you're just demanding fail-proof plan LOL And why the fuck do they have to know about Luffy? Just Kaidou! Do you follow the conversation?
and top tier
No, he isn't. He barely beat Katakuri LOL
2 things that we know don't really matter.
Sure, in telling for sure how strong someone is. But that doesn't mean they can't be true.
No, the news paper just reported that he attacked BM and beat her top commanders, remember BM was even mad cause it inferred that she lost to Luffy, so kaido has no indication of how strong he is just based off the news paper.
Yes, beat Commanders, not BM LOL.
Again, read! I said ''SHs got away instead of beating her''. Kaidou talked to BM on Den Den Mushi later. He knows she is mad because the newspaper exaggerated.
from the perspective of the in manga characters
LOL what? Except Luffy, Kid and maybe Zolo how many dumbfucks in this arc think you can just walk up and punch an Emperor and beat him/her at this level?
What possible reason would Luffy have to think that kaido is alot stronger then Kata? Cause Kaido is more famous and has a bigger bounty? Cause kaido has alot of people working for him? Cause kaido is the captain of his crew? Cause kaido is a yonkou like luffy? Cause kaido is considered equal to BM? Luffy didnt even fight BM either so there's always the chance that kata grew stronger then his mother at some point in time (which happens in real life actually) and just stays as her subordinate cause that's his mother and he loves her. Hell its even been said Kata has never lost a fight before Luffy while Kaido has literally lost and been caught dozens of times. Couldn't that be looked at as a reason to think Kata is stronger from their perspectives?
Is that why Luffy even singled out Emperors and Admirals in his speech to Fuji? LOL Now suddenly Commanders are on same level. Nice try!
And I like how you can put effort into thinking up a lot of possible scenarios for your stance yet fail to see how if all those are wrong and Kaidou is indeed fucking strong then what? That's what planning is. You don't have to belittle yourself but be prepared as well as you can.
Also you just said ''from perspective of characters and not readers'', yet brought up the fact that Kaidou lost several times which is never told to Luffy and only said to us readers in omnipotent narrative in square box dialogue. Good logic!
but there is no way luffy could possibly know these things for sure
Yep, hence planning and preparing LOL
Status, fame, bounty, influence, hierarchy, none of it matters wen it comes to strength, and the only way to know exactly how you stack up to someone is to fight them yourself. Not "oh he's just the first mate so he must be weaker than a captain" you know how silly that sounds from their perspective? Especially since there are plenty of cases where someone of lower rank was stronger then someone with a higher rank. Think about if you heard that in real life. "Oh that guy with one arm and a peg leg is the Captain of this navy ship so he must be able to beat up that much bigger and more muscular guy cause he's just the first mate"
Actual valuable info about one's ability and organization matters LOL
So now you're just pretending your headcanon that is no one can say any valuable info is true? Great! Real life sure is easy.
Also explain to me if nothing matters then why Luffy even listened to Capone talking about BM's weakness and agreed with a plan to take her down instead of just facing her 1vs1 for LOL?
Edited by Fulmine, 08 November 2018 - 03:18 AM.