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[Discussion] Bounties


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#1 Tale

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 01:13 PM

Q: All the characters of “Yonkou Officer” class have very high bounties. Do their bounties ever go up simply for the reason that they are the Officer of XX? P.N. Rice LOVE
Oda: Yes yes, that totally happens. After the Dressrosa incident, all the people involved with the Straw Hat Crew got a flat 50 million increase. The crew members’ bounties often increase with their captain. This is because it is actually fairly difficult to appraise the strength of each individual person and assign a money value to them.

 

  • Bartolomeo Independent 150,000,000  
  • Bellamy Independent 195,000,000  
  • Caribou Independent 210,000,000  
  • Squardo Yonkou affiliated 210,000,000  
  • Fisher Tiger Independent 230,000,000  
  • Jinbe Independent 250,000,000  
  • Cavendish Independent 280,000,000  
  • Kuma Independent 296,000,000  
  • Bege Yonkou affiliated 300,000,000  
  • Caesar Clown Independent 300,000,000  
  • Moria Independent 320,000,000  
  • Hawkins Independent 320,000,000  
  • Pekoms Yonkou crewmember 330,000,000 non-captain
  • Doflamingo Independent 340,000,000  
  • Apoo Independent 350,000,000  
  • Pedro Independent 382,000,000  
  • Tamago Yonkou crewmember 429,000,000 non-captain
  • Jinbe Yonkou affiliated 438,000,000  
  • Law Independent 440,000,000  
  • Kidd Independent 475,000,000  
  • Weevil Independent 480,000,000  
  • Enel Independent 500,000,000  
  • Chinjao Independent 550,000,000  
  • Oars Jr Yonkou affiliated 550,000,000  
  • Sabo Revo 602,000,000  

 
So, after the SBS in volume 91 more or less confirmed that the crewmembers of a Yonkou suffer to some extent from bounty inflation simply be association with that Yonkou, I think it is worth considering how severe this bounty inflation is and under what circumstances we should find a bounty impressive. 
 
In the above list, I added bounties based on a few criteria:

  • New World experience (excludes the old SN bounties)
  • Independence (is or would be a captain or is not subordinated to an organization or a Yonkou) 
  • 200m+ bounty

Obviously, I've only loosely followed these criteria just so the list includes points of comparison. 
 
I think a glance at it suffices to establish that that some of the most notorious and fearsome people in the world don't seem to need and and do not have bounties even close to the bounties we've been seeing from the BM Pirates. We have bounties for the majority of the Shichibukai and some of the Supernovas, and most of these seem to fall between the 200-400m range, with some (Kidd, Weevil, Law) being even higher.
 
We also have seen individuals, for instance, Doflamingo, who seem strong enough to fight and possibly even beat the stronger Yonkou officers, despite gigantic bounty differences. Luffy, after beating Doffy, had a bounty that was a mere 500,000,000 and proceeded to beat Cracker and Katakuri shortly afterwards. It's possible that the Marines were underestimating him and the bounty was lower than he deserved, but on the other hand, he might have gotten that bounty because defeating Doffy indicated he was very strong (and Doffy was seen as a counterbalancing force to the Yonkou). 
 
Tamago and Pekoms, both with gigantic bounties, don't seem to deserve them. Pedro didn't seem to have much difficulty fighting Tamago (iirc) and Pekoms even in Sulong was a bit of a non-entity. Would they have gotten bounties that high without being Big Mom's subordinates? The same for people like Snack, Perospero and the Sweet Commanders... would they have bounties nearly as high if they were independent, or would they have bounties similar to Luffy's and Weevil's?
 
We also have some hints that the Yonkou Officers don't see that much action against powerful pirates. Katakuri wasn't used to fighting people on Luffy's level and confessed to being annoyed at least once and Cracker doesn't seem to have fought anyone who was capable of breaking his armor. Similarly, it seems that the abilities of the Whitebeard Pirates were known to the Marines by reputation rather than direct experience. Finally, we have Jack repeatedly overestimating his own capabilities in the latest arcs (which culminates in his insane attack on Doffy's escort). 
 
Finally, we have Sabo (who, to be fair, might suffer from the same case of bounty inflation, but arguably doesn't) defeating Burgess very quickly, who, following the pattern of other Yonkou Officers, ought to have a bounty much higher than Sabo's. 
 
It seems (though it is far from clear) that a 500m bounty or above is very good for an independent pirate and this may well be as impressive or equivalent to bounty approximating a billion for someone in a Yonkou's crew. I guess it'll become clearer the more bounties are revealed, but... Eneru hype.


Edited by Tale, 03 December 2018 - 01:48 PM.

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#2 Oben

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 01:42 PM

I could've sworn there was an old Bounty-thread, but I can't even find it in the Archive. Wonder where it went.

 

Anyway, aside from the usual threat-assessment, I think there's a couple of possible factors to bounties, in- and out-of-universe.

 

- Political purposes. There was the theory around, when Cracker's bounty was revealed, that the WG specifically held down Ace's because they didn't want to hype him too much before his execution (in case his father became known). Similar things could apply to all political opponents.

- There's only one way for bounties, up. Especially for older characters, this could be an issue, who knows if e.g. Tamago was still in his prime.

- There's no continuous updating process, it happens whenever the Marines remember that you are a thing after some event/news. So Sabo might've just been missing his last update because he wasn't involved in any incident recently.

- Inflation from Oda's side. I'm willing to bet the he didn't plan for multiple 1 billion+ bounties in 1997 :lol:

- Symbolism. Like Uroge's being a holy buddhist number and BB's being, apparently, the real Blackbeard's adjusted for inflation, stuff like that.


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#3 Narubi

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 02:20 PM

Haha 

 

For a moment I thought the title of this was "Booties," rather than Bounties. 

 

Was momentarily curious as to what sort of tale would be told to us by Tale.  :heehee:


Edited by Narubi, 03 December 2018 - 02:22 PM.

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#4 captain kidd

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 02:29 PM

Well before throwing in the towel I will defend it a little.

The warlord bounties are all "frozen" it was said that Hancocks pathetic bounty was from a single outing. So the reason warlords have such low bounties is simply because the WG gets them when they are young. Frankly that makes the most sense, the wg sees promise in a pirate, knows they will probably go on to be a big threat in the future, and offer them a position working for them. If the WG waited too long till the warlord candidate was established as a super power house. It is very likely he wouldn't even bother accepting the position. Why would he? He doesn't need the protection from the wg and already can do what ever he wants.

Of course that doesn't mean that big names cant ask to join. Law did. BB did (even if he was worth zero, I am sure weevil did.


As for luffy vs DD, well that is simple, it was luffy and law vs DD. And if you ask any DD fan not they will tell you that Gemma knife did 99% of the damage to dd....... not really but you get the point, the fact that luffy had a TON of help beating dd had to of worked against him.

Also, let's be clear before I go on. No one has ever said the bounties are perfect. BB's was zero choppers is slightly under value and Usopp's is way over valued (and more arguably sanji's and Franky's are equally screwed up) not to mention bartolomeo's bounty has to be wrong.....

Lol ya I love your take down of emperors commanders. I am old enough to remember a time when they were considered along side admirals and emperors in power rankings.... Hahahahaha I never believed that, people clearly don't know how OP works if they believed that.

Ya commanders are clowns. Jack is a walking punch line bm lost 2 commanders to one dude and the wb pirate commanders did worse against the admirals then luffy did...
 
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#5 Kid Frost

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 01:22 PM

We also have seen individuals, for instance, Doflamingo, who seem strong enough to fight and possibly even beat the stronger Yonkou officers, despite gigantic bounty differences.


I agree that Doflamingo is a similar (and possibly greater) threat when compared to guys like Jack, Cracker, and Katakuri but the bounty difference actually makes sense when you consider the circumstances. Doflamingo became a Shichibukai ten years ago at which time his 340,000,000 bounty was frozen. Ten years is a really long time, especially when you look at just how quickly bounties can be accrued in the One Piece world. We've seen pirates get bounties ranging from 300,000,000 to 500,000,000 in only one to three years.
I would propose that if Doflamingo never became a Shichibukai then during the last ten years his bounty could've easily tripled which would put him in the billion range with the other top Yonko commanders. I think this also applies to all of the stronger Shichibukai and that as long as they didn't die or get captured and thrown into Impel Down their bounties would've kept increasing and eventually reached the likes of Cracker, Smoothie and the others.

Even when you compare the Yonko commanders bounties to the Supernova's the gap still makes sense to me. Imagine you live in the One Piece world and your father set out to be a pirate 20 years ago and over that time gained a bounty of 800,000,000. When you grow up you decide to follow in his footsteps and after three years you have a bounty of over 400,000,000. Wouldn't you say that relatively speaking you are rising as a pirate at a much faster rate than your father?
As I'm sure you've noticed that's pretty much the bounty difference between Cracker and Kid but the former likely has two decades more of experience as a pirate. Do you really think at the rapid rate Kid is going (he's currently 23) he wouldn't pass Cracker by the time he's 45?

Perospero is 50 and if we assume Linlin finally allowed her children to start pirating at age 20 then he has likely been a pirate for  30 years which is how long it took for him to get a bounty of 700,000,000. Law, Kid, Apoo, Hawkins, Zoro, Sanji, Cavendish all have roughly half that in a little under three years which to me seems much more impressive.
It's not just the Big Mom Pirates, Kaido's calamities were with him at least 20 years ago and the commanders Whitebeard's crews seem to have been around for decades as well except for Ace which could explain why his bounty was lower than other top commanders we've seen as he was only in his position for under two years. I think longevity has more to do with the Yonko commanders bounties much more than inflation.
 

Tamago and Pekoms, both with gigantic bounties, don't seem to deserve them. Pedro didn't seem to have much difficulty fighting Tamago (iirc)


I think Pedro might've just been strong though, his bounty was higher than Zoro or Sanji's current bounty and that's after five years of inactivity. I don't know how strong Tamago is but at the very least he isn't easy to kill since his devil fruit allows him to survive fatal attacks by constantly changing forms. Even when Pedro tried to blow him up mid transformation it didn't do anything to him as we later saw him unharmed during the rest of the arc. Pekoms doesn't seem crazy strong but his bounty also isn't that far off from Usopp's (the gap is the same as Cavendish and Bartlomeo). :shrug:

Personally I think all of the Big Mom Pirates bounties makes sense; the commanders are easily the strongest and have bounties near a billion, the weakest we've seen was Bobbins a mere 100,000,000, and guys like Tamago and Pekoms fit somewhere in the middle both in terms of strength and bounty. If they all had crazy high bounties like the Sweet Commanders I would agree more that it was the result of inflation but as it is they all seem relatively appropriate for their level so inflation probably isn't as large a factor as some people are making it out to be.
 

We also have some hints that the Yonkou Officers don't see that much action against powerful pirates.

Possibly but keep in mind that while Luffy took down two Shichibukai prior to arriving on Sabaody both of those acts only contributed to 70,000 of his overall 300,000,000 bounty. Meanwhile Kid who didn't face anyone near that level (let alone two) arrived with a higher bounty just because of how much property damage and civilian casualties he caused which somewhat shows where the World Government's priorities lie.

The Big Mom pirates operate like a mafia organization and when islands under their protection can't afford to pay their candy tax they get burned to the ground. In addition they sometimes destroy islands just for the sake of  gathering rare ingredients and also kill innocent people if they someone they love snubs a tea party invite.  
It's very unlikely Linlin is going around the world to personally commit these acts, especially since she probably spends most of her time either pregnant or preparing for tea parties so many of these events would likely be carried out by her commanders. All of this seems just as bad if not worse than what Kid was accused of doing in Paradise and has been going on for a longer period of time so all these civilian deaths are likely a bigger deal than if Jack and Smoothie got into a fight or a clash between Katakuri and Ben Beckman. I don't think the government cares that much about pirates clashing unless it's the Shichibukai and that's only because those particular pirates work for them.

Also I would postulate that the commanders see more action than the Yonko themselves; all four of them seem to enjoy drinking, partying, philandering much more than fighting. Just as the Vice Admirals are the ones sent out for Buster Call rather than the Admirals themselves, the Yonko commanders probably do most of the dirty work for their captains.
 


Edited by Kid Frost, 08 December 2018 - 01:17 PM.

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#6 Sesshoumaru

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 05:34 AM

That Yonkou bounties are inflated was obvious to me the moment we saw Jack's bounty. It also makes sense. Firstly, the Yonkou commanders are actively supporting a Yonkou (obviously), meaning they support the most powerful and strongest pirates of the sea, that MIGHT one day take down the WG by finding One Piece. Secondly, they all command lots of sub divisions, basically their own pirate armies. And yeah, the third point, as mentioned by @Kid Frost, the commanders are the cause of lots of civilian and property damage.

 

If we assume Luffy's bounty after Dressrosa is an accurate description of his strength, then we can estimate the commander's inflation purified bounties based on the troubles Luffy had with them.

I would give Cracker a bounty of around 600 to 700M. He looked superior to Luffy for the most part, but Luffy needed only Nami to take him down, who is not really a power house.

Katakuri was significantly stronger than Luffy and it took Luffy one medium sized and one small powerup since Dressrosa (enhanced CoO and less strain on his body after G4 runs out) to take him out. These power boosts should be of higher value than Nami's assistance, so Katakuri having a higher bounty than Cracker is justified. But did Luffy's improvements make him more than twice his original strength? Doubt it. So I would give Katakuri a bounty of around 800-900M.

Jack did not fight any character that we could use to properly scale his strength. However, seeing him fail time and time again and seeing how he has that reckless, wild and merciless personality (larger inflation probably), I think he is on Cracker's level with a bounty of around 600 to 700M. Based on recent chapters, he might be the weakest calamity.

Guys like Doflamingo and Sabo should have a strength-based bounty of around 700 to 800M.

 

Luffy's current strength should be around 1B. He can take down most Yonkou commanders on his own at this point.


Edited by Sesshoumaru, 06 December 2018 - 01:36 PM.


#7 Fulmine

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:52 AM


and less strain on his body after G4 runs out)

Oda already retconned that LOL Besides how do you know it's Luffy's improvement and not that DD simply dealt more damage than Katakuri?


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#8 Fulmine

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 02:57 AM


Doflamingo became a Shichibukai ten years ago at which time his 340,000,000 bounty was frozen. Ten years is a really long time, especially when you look at just how quickly bounties can be accrued in the One Piece world. We've seen pirates get bounties ranging from 300,000,000 to 500,000,000 in only one to three years.
I would propose that if Doflamingo never became a Shichibukai then during the last ten years his bounty could've easily tripled which would put him in the billion range with the other top Yonko commanders. I think this also applies to all of the stronger Shichibukai and that as long as they didn't die or get captured and thrown into Impel Down their bounties would've kept increasing and eventually reached the likes of Cracker, Smoothie and the others.

It's said bounty's hard to increase after 400mil mark though. Such statement wouldn't have been made if it was a simple matter of accruing bounty like saving money...I mean, if you are a 400mil threat, do one more evil thing and you're 430mil for example, and one more worse thing and you're 470mil and so on...so why even say it's hard to keep increasing after that threshold if there isn't a change in the way WG and Marines assess your deeds and hand out bounties?

 

At some point unless your status has reached a completely higher level (which is exactly what being in Emperor's main crew can do) or you do something very very damaging, way more than what you used to do (which also ends up achieving the former) I think the increase will be trivial even though you keep doing the same thing. So killing 100 citizens when you're a rookie with bounty 100mil may give you an increase of 50mil because, well, you're new and there's certain ''hot stuff of the time'' effect but doing the same thing when you're a veteran with bounty 700mil you probably barely got a 10mil increase for example.

 

Hell, unless it's 2 Emperors meeting like Shanks & WB or recently Kaidou & BM, it seems to me most of New World is pretty much surrendered to Yonkou to control and manage so you can hardly get much higher bounty unless you're in Emperor's crew or doing really well yourself because whatever crap you do it's possibly dealt with or initiated by Emperors already (as Law said, either you go under them or fight them).

 

 


Even when you compare the Yonko commanders bounties to the Supernova's the gap still makes sense to me. Imagine you live in the One Piece world and your father set out to be a pirate 20 years ago and over that time gained a bounty of 800,000,000. When you grow up you decide to follow in his footsteps and after three years you have a bounty of over 400,000,000. Wouldn't you say that relatively speaking you are rising as a pirate at a much faster rate than your father?
As I'm sure you've noticed that's pretty much the bounty difference between Cracker and Kid but the former likely has two decades more of experience as a pirate. Do you really think at the rapid rate Kid is going (he's currently 23) he wouldn't pass Cracker by the time he's 45?

Perospero is 50 and if we assume Linlin finally allowed her children to start pirating at age 20 then he has likely been a pirate for 30 years which is how long it took for him to get a bounty of 700,000,000. Law, Kid, Apoo, Hawkins, Zoro, Sanji, Cavendish all have roughly half that in a little under three years which to me seems much more impressive.
It's not just the Big Mom Pirates, Kaido's calamities were with him at least 20 years ago and the commanders Whitebeard's crews seem to have been around for decades as well except for Ace which could explain why his bounty was lower than other top commanders we've seen as he was only in his position for under two years. I think longevity has more to do with the Yonko commanders bounties much more than inflation.

Eh, why do you think the increase rate is the same through out? People can go fast at first then hit a plateau in their development. A lot of prodigies are like that. So the son does not necessarily go faster than the father. Maybe the father went just as fast and then touched his ceiling at some point and has stayed the same since then and the son might suffer the same fate.

 

Not to mention NW pirates simply may not have anymore major action after settling down with Emperors or on their own. So it's not like Perosperos must have really needed a whole 30 years to earn that bounty. He may have had that after some years, a decade, 15 years etc. and then settle in Totto Land ever since. Oda made it clear with the introduction boxes that a lot of the Charlotte children are only Ministers and technically not BM pirates. The Sweet Commanders are.

 

As for Supernova and Shichibukai, well, the fact that they belong to these groups obviously means they are not the same and probably will just make a name for themselves, maybe reaching Emperor status even.


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#9 Kid Frost

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 01:16 PM

It's said bounty's hard to increase after 400mil mark though. Such statement wouldn't have been made if it was a simple matter of accruing bounty like saving money


I know that and I kept that in mind when saying what I said. I still think because we're talking about long periods of time like decades bounties can still accumulate to a high amount even if the rate at which they accumulate slows down after a certain threshold. Going back to my previous example let's Perospero became a pirate at age 20 and by 25 earned a bounty of 400,000,000.
1st Bounty - Age 21: 50,000,000
2nd Bounty - Age23: 210,000,000
3rd Bounty - Age 25: 400,300,000

That's not quite as rapid as the Worst Generation but it's still a pretty decent pace; however at this point because he's over 400,000,000 the rate at which his bounty increases greatly slows down. Even if that's the case he would still have 25 years to accumulate the bounty he currently has which could still be achieved even if he only averages and increase 12,000,000 a year. Unless the World Government at some point just stops increasing your bounty entirely, which doesn't seem to be the case, then it should be possible to get a high bounty through consistent pirate activity over a long period of time even if the rate isn't as meteoric as it was in the beginning due to "bounty fatigue".

Also bounties being harder to increase past that threshold clearly isn't universally true as Luffy came into the New World already with 400,000,000 and after only a few weeks it increased to 500,000,000 and then after another few weeks it jumped all the way to 1,500,000,000 and Blackbeard massively jumped from zero to 2,200,000,000 just during the time skip.

Keep in mind in all the examples I'm giving I'm not saying this is definitely how things played out, just that it's merely possible and would make sense. It's also possible that a young Perospero with a mere bounty of 100,000,000 committed a single outrageous act like killing a Vice Admiral 30 years ago and got a 600,000,000 bounty increase but hasn't done much of note since then so his bounty never went up again. I'm just pointing out that there are various ways that the bounties we see in the series can all make sense relative to each other. :shrug:
 

Oda made it clear with the introduction boxes that a lot of the Charlotte children are only Ministers and technically not BM pirates. The Sweet Commanders are.


The title of Minister only indicates which island that character lives on and governs within Totland as well as the ingredients or food they're known for making. It has nothing to do with whether they're pirates or not. All of the Sweet Commanders are also Ministers (Flour, Juice, and Biscuits respectively) but because they have an additional title that takes precedence their introductions are different.

As far as there being Ministers that aren't members of the actual pirate crew I agree that's possible though off the top of my head Flampe is the only Minister for which that might appear to be true and even she was introduced as the captain of the Special Forces. Most of the other Ministers such as Daifuku, Oven, and even Ministers that weren't very relevant such as Custard and Brownie we've seen have there own personal pirate ships and command their own fleet. In Perospero's we know he has his own personal pirate ship because we saw it when he escorted Pedro away from Totland after his lifespan taken a few years ago. They all appear to be pirates with nothing indicating that they aren't.
 


Edited by Kid Frost, 08 December 2018 - 06:35 PM.

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#10 Fulmine

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 01:04 AM


Even if that's the case he would still have 25 years to accumulate the bounty he currently has which could still be achieved even if he only averages and increase 12,000,000 a year. Unless the World Government at some point just stops increasing your bounty entirely, which doesn't seem to be the case, then it should be possible to get a high bounty through consistent pirate activity over a long period of time even if the rate isn't as meteoric as it was in the beginning due to "bounty fatigue".

That's what my ''settling down'' point is for. We know Kaidou took Wano 20 years ago. Totto Land probably also was established several years ago, too. From that point on Emperor crews may have been living tamely (relatively speaking compared to their older selves, of course) and even much less consistent to no pirate activity. I mean, who even dare to challenge them? Marines give them control and let them be unless 2 Emperors want to meet which is very rare, rookies like Worst Generation are just as rare, hell even they couldn't breach BM's first defense and only Urouge beat Snack...as for skirmishes between Emperor crews, I think most of them are between outer-fringe personnel and allied crews. It's a real question just how long since the last time any of the main crew, much less Top Commanders, seen some serious action or even small action...if they just go around stealing some food or sake in their territory the WG probably don't even care...

 

 


Also bounties being harder to increase past that threshold clearly isn't universally true as Luffy came into the New World already with 400,000,000 and after only a few weeks it increased to 500,000,000 and then after another few weeks it jumped all the way to 1,500,000,000 and Blackbeard massively jumped from zero to 2,200,000,000 just during the time skip.

You use the right description yourself: ''harder to increase'', not ''impossible to increase'' so I don't see why it's not true. Luffy and BB and others simply managed to do the harder things, aka crazy shit. Did Katakuri ever beat someone on DD level outside of his crew? Unlikely given how Base/G2Luffy dodged him more than anyone ever did... This proxy war situation where Emperors are happily living in their own territory probably makes Commanders all ''sheltered kids'' :lol:

 

 

 


I'm just pointing out that there are various ways that the bounties we see in the series can all make sense relative to each other. :shrug:

Oh, I'm sure it's possible for some, I just don't think it applies that well for Emperor crews given how little challenge they have and how islands in their territory would obey them anw. What can Marines say if the islands make deal themselves then break it and get punishment...deservingly for that?

 

And Oda's answer in SBS kinda makes it clear inflation is really a big part. Maybe not for every single Commanders, sure, but still. Luffy was only a 500mil upcoming pirate and his allies and weaker nakama get 50mil increase. An actual Emperor's main crew's top member can get like 200mil, I imagine and probably not just once...

 

 


The title of Minister only indicates which island that character lives on and governs within Totland as well as the ingredients or food they're known for making. It has nothing to do with whether they're pirates or not. All of the Sweet Commanders are also Ministers (Flour, Juice, and Biscuits respectively) but because they have an additional title that takes precedence their introductions are different.

It's not the title of Minister, I know the SC are also Ministers, it's the lack of ''BM pirates'' in the others' introduction boxes...If the Sweet Commanders can be introduced as both BM pirates and Ministers then why other Ministers aren't treated the same?

 

 


As far as there being Ministers that aren't members of the actual pirate crew I agree that's possible though off the top of my head Flampe is the only Minister for which that might appear to be true and even she was introduced as the captain of the Special Forces. Most of the other Ministers such as Daifuku, Oven, and even Ministers that weren't very relevant such as Custard and Brownie we've seen have there own personal pirate ships and command their own fleet. In Perospero's we know he has his own personal pirate ship because we saw it when he escorted Pedro away from Totland after his lifespan taken a few years ago. They all appear to be pirates with nothing indicating that they aren't.

Huh? I didn't say they aren't essentially pirates or they can't command their forces. I said ''technically they are not BM pirates''. My point is the same as above: these guys probably are tasked with managing Totto Land and mainly staying there ever since and do little pirate activities compared to the actual BM pirates. It's like belonging to two different departments.


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