I don't even know where you have the info that Su-Long only lasts a few Seconds? I'm pretty sure it was at least several minutes AND she ended the form prematurely.
U realise Jinbeis words: "If the mink tribe is unable to surpress themselfs within one night, they will die from the exhaustion of fighting" First of one night Sulong means death to them! http://mangaseeonlin...889-page-5.html
Carrot starts using Sulong here: http://mangaseeonlin...88-page-10.html and is finished here: http://mangaseeonlin...89-page-15.html Now if u compare the position of the boats u see that not much has moved, thus not much time has passed, and remeber the SH ship was fleeing meaning top speed, with others chasing (again others coming from the front) them at top speed, yet the chasers aint so much closer to the SH ship than they where before!
Then there is this:
http://mangaseeonlin...9-page-13.html proving that Carrot was near her limit!, otherwise why would she loose consciousness, which alongside Jinbeis words previously mentioned above leads to certain death? So tell me how is Carrot gonna be of use against yonkous in an battle that might last for days, when all she can do is figth for a few secs (let it be a few min, which are still only a very limited number of seconds) under her most powerful form, which then leads to having to sleep? How is protecting a sleeping Carrot during an all out battle vs. a yonkou and his underlings on the battlefield gonna help the SHs become stronger?
http://mangaseeonlin...89-page-14.html She even admits that without Brook coming to her aid she would have been a goner even vs the fodder of BM crew... how is she even remotely at the lvl of Nami who fought Cracker alongside Luffy for 10 or 11 hours?
On said page u also get to know how winded she already is after such a short use of Sulong by: "HUFF HUFF"
here Carrot is already on the floor: http://mangaseeonlin...89-page-17.html
and she is asleep here: http://mangaseeonlin...890-page-4.html here is the sleeping symbol "ZZZZ" on carrot: http://mangaseeonlin...892-page-3.html here it says they r "sleeping" : http://mangaseeonlin...92-page-10.html
Also Carrot was Fast enough to surprise Zoro on Zou.
U kidding right? Shall we really count how often Oda downcreased the normal abilites a SH has for plots sake or to hype another? Ok let me give u 1 example: ENTIRE WANO ARC (after being at Tamas place) LUFFY NO FS COO! CoO vs Kaidou nah dont bother...
Well this was fun here another for hecks sake: Sanji, Zoro+Brook defeated by Yeti Cool brothers, now they surely have to be even far stronger than those 3 right?
I'm pretty sure she is quicker than all 3 of them in her base form.
I find faster than Usoop doubtful, but u might be right on this one. In generel i meant overall power not certain stats, in case that i was unclear at that.
Then She has electric attacks so maybe she has some resistance to electricity attacks? can'T say for sure.
might be true as well, but that does not save her from fire and since she has fur Usoop might be a real bad opponent for her. Usoop power is manifested on his varying skills, he is able to adept in an extremely wide spectrum, which is why he is a very dangerous opponent imo. He also is a great tank, I really dont see how Carrot could inflict enough damage on Usoop without him having enough time to figure out a way to defeat her beforehand. Imo he is one of the most underrated SHs (previously i thought Brook to be the most underrated but i think (my perception of how people dicuss Brook since WCI at least) that changed after/during WCI).
Robin and Nami i see capable of deceiving her good enough with mirage tempo and clone+sprout thing from Robin, who can essentially appear right at every single body part of Carrot, in oder to break it, whenever she feels like it! U need to be physically stronger than i deem Carot to be in order to resist the bone breaking attempt from Robin.
Also i think Nami far more than just lighning based, she also has very powerful wind attacks. And just like with Usoop both Robin and Nami have their wits.
Also Robin never broke anyone's spine (Pell was still alive, if you break your spine your are dead or at hte very least paralysed, Pell was neither of those). And Yeah Carrot can just speedblitz everyone of those 3 and they are fucked.
to first part, i thought she did, but cant say for certain. does not really matter though, then lets simply discuss the example of breaking one (both) arm or one (both) leg. Wait a minute the Clutch attack from Robin i am pretty certain that that aims to breaking/clutching the opponents bones. In FI the dude was done for after double clutch, hundreds of others (marines, fodders) have been defeated by the clutch before. also there was cien fleurs rindo, and twist which aimed for breaking the spine directly.
In real life no! In our days we can actually operate and cure a broken spine as long as the nerves have not been completely cut and certain other things/conditions which i dont remember r met. Friend of mine actually broke his spine during sport recently and he got operated and is now learning to walk again. Although admittedly u never go back to the 100% u had before.
WHo was Pell? Bird dude in Alabasta? dont remember him well enough to get what situation u r comparing this too sry. but keep in mind Pell also survived the mega bomb for plots sake and since this was early op. Oda did not kill a single individual until MFwar iirc?
i really dont think that any of the 3 would be unable to take a few hits from Carrot. Usoop has been shown to have immense durability, Robin in her "fight" vs diamante also took quite the lot of damage, just remember how her back looked afterwards. Moreover Robin was fast enough for Hakuba, even being able to "shackle" him, who imo is far faster than Carrot.
Nami is the same when u think about how much battle experience she gained at WCI. I mean Cracker, enraged army, vs BM on the Sunny. I really dont see how that does not put her far ahead of Carrot when u consider that she did not have to sleep directly.
1.)Carrot's introduction involved a clash with Zoro that left him at a disadvantage
2.)and then she proceeded to impress Franky with her "physical ability" when she jumped above the forest to check out the area.
3.)She also took out Luffy as a gag when she joined them for the first time on the ship, and Pedro said to the SHs who were shocked that Carrot is stronger than the average mink. Even Luffy noted she can take care of herself.
4.)I'm not saying she is as strong as these guys, but these kind of things imply she's a fair bit stronger than the weaker SHs.
5.)She also reacts to threats differently than they do.
6.)She saved Nami and Chopper here and realized they were under attack before they did.
7.)She also fought the rabbit homie while they ran off.
1.) Already adressed in my response to @Raiden
2.) Never claimed she is worse in every aspect so... once more i am talking about overall skillset/powerlvl
3.) U misunderstand, Luffy asked whether she can, sicne he seems unsure. Pedro claiming she is stronger than average mink means nothing because compare average marine to higher up marine. There is always a immense gap when the word average is used in op. Remember fishmen being as strong as 10 (average) men? well compare 1 Luffy to 10 average people and u understand my point here.
Never trust the word average in one piece, it aint of any help when talking about powerlvl.
4.) I dont see why that would imply what u propose honestly, but thats of course only making sense if i am right at 3.), otherwise u would be totally right.
5.) But what has that to do with her powerlvl? Luffy was never afraid sicne chapter 1, did that mean he was among the stronger/current NWlvl ones in op from chapter 1? No.
6.) Agreed i dont doubt that her senses and observative skills outshine Robin and Nami she is partly an animal and certain things are better when it comes to animals then they r with humans (like sense of smell, hearing etc.) but for me that does not make her overall fighting prowess when considering all that that comprises, thus i.e. ability to adept to certain fighting styls, being variable in ur own one, having powerful attacks, being mobile (apoint where she i.e. far exceeds Nami (unless she can now fly zeus that is), but not Robin imo, since clones), being able to deceive /trap the enemy, tanking attacks etc
7.) true that but was that not to reunite with Luffy? I mean Nami warns carrot not to get seperated after all.
while i as of now believe that Usoop, Nami, Robin > Carrot, i could come partly ur way by saying Carrot > Chopper currently.
Thing why i dont really see any need for Carrot is that she is mostly Chopper 2.0. when it comes to what can do and what is still possible (leaving lighting aside here, since Nami covers that).
I dont see why Chopper cannot get a "Sulong"=Monster form by studying the Minks during Moonlight. And having 2 within the crew who r part animal does not help the speciality Chopper represents either imo (doctor stuff left aside here). Whatever skillset any mink might get (again no electro) is imo what CHopper could learn/get as well through training or stuying, therefore i dont see what upside it has to get Carrot when there are so many other characters, that would help the SHs in a far greater magnitude. She also aint speical characterwise imo, like bushido Zoro and calm/closed/introverted (hopefully this word exists in english and fits and does not mean something totally different, but rebell as i am i am gonna try nevertheless ??) Robin , instead Carrot is the carefree character severel SHs aleady are, she know nothing of the world and wont help them from starving either by getting food/growing it herself. All the current weaknesses the SHs do have do not get diminished by Carrot, in contrast to Jinbei addition e.g., which is why i really have a problem when it comes to jugding her usefulness to the crew (which every single other SH does indeed have).
Its not that i dislike her (did during Zou arc though), i simply see little avail in her joining, and would miss the time used for the other SHs if Carrot would take it. Sry but thats just how i see it.
I believe Zoro, Franky, Sanji, Chopper, robin to make the biggest progress during Wano though.
After Wano i currently dont see how Carrot would still be > Chopper.
Usoop already received immense powerup with CoO in DR, training that in Wano in order of not having to fight and avoid the enemy lurking /shoot them from far enough away is enough to make him shine epicly. Kairoseki (bullets and everything else that might be of use) will become his inventory, but while that boosts his power i dont count it here since it is nothing new after he already used it in PH.
On the other hand this arc might base a lot around Usoop when it comes to his dream, since to overcome fear/cowardness, countless beasts are a great training aint they
Nami already got Zeus, needs tankyness though
Brook well he shined so much lately i simply dont see Oda giving him so much focus in the "near" future.
Franky being the brawler that he is , will go immensly more tanky, and since zoan are durable and tanky he needs stronger poweroutput. I still wait for sensors, like temperature/movement sensor, as well as kairoseki body. moreover i await little nanobots/drones/robots who repair him automatically while he fights ((theory i have had for years not gonna happen until near the end though if ever)
Sanji well Oda should already know how much good he has to do when it comes to him.
Zoro come on its his arc.
Chopper partly his arc since minks and Zoans.
Edited by capu, 04 December 2018 - 03:59 PM.