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One Piece Chapter 939 Discussion


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#21 KUROkami

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 03:18 PM

Luffy is finally catching up to Zoro. Maybe he'll have a chance to get a Kaido now


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#22 D.Hyuga

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 06:27 PM


The only damn reason that makes sense is oda wanted a 10 year old momo. That is the only freaking reason and it isnt a good reason for inventing a time traveling fruit....

 

It is plot device, Momo's mother probably lived during AK period, and maybe there ll find her diary or something like that.



#23 tenchu

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 06:51 PM

She sent momo to die 20 years later.

Quite honestly she should had sent momo with the frog too so He could get training from anywhere he could get it and grow up strong enough to get revenge. He could have been very useful now if that had happened. I really don't understand her plan.

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#24 Ajh77

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 07:54 PM

I'm having a hard time seeing how the deflection haki is an upgrade over the hardening haki. It has defensive applications and extends the range of one's attacks (which Luffy doesn't really need), but what's the difference? Is it just that it is intrinsically stronger than the user's level of hardening, if they are able to use it? Or is it in fact the same thing, in principle, which is happening when haki is applied to weapons, but instead of it being applied to a weapon, it is applied in a space determined by the user? Maybe the idea is that Luffy can create that zone (with a will to hurt) inside Kaidou? 

 

Just trying to figure things out, but this still bothers me, because it has never been depicted as something that effects things internally, and moreover, it would be aping a technique which already exists (and which Luffy might be taking inspiration from), which is FK.

Yeah, I assume it is just stronger by default.  Otherwise, Luffy's comment doesn't make sense if it is just the regular hardening spread outward.  Luffy says it will allow him to "break through" (MS translation) Kaido's scales, so that implies to me it is all about the force of the attack.  That doesn't necessarily negate your point about it possibly being an inward attack though. 

 

I'm not sure how this in conjunction with Gear 4 makes much of a difference either, but we'll see.  


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Sajin Komamura - "I won't tell you not to hate me. I won't tell you not to bear a grudge against me. All I ask is that you don't sacrifice yourself for the sake of revenge. If you were to do that, and I were to lose you, like you lost your friend, it would break my heart."

 

Tousen Kaname - "...Thank you...Komamura."


#25 Kazekage

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 10:13 AM

@Ajh77  @Tale

 

Haki was described by Rayleigh as like wearing a suit of armor.  So I'm guessing this is like switching out a tin shield for a Vibranium one (Cap referece ftw!).  I guess this will also depend on the strength/level of the user.  The three Admirals also used this type of haki to block WB's shockwave in Marineford. 

Anyway, it looks like Zoro did awaken haki during Alabasta or at least a mild variation of it. I didn't believe it then but I will now gladly eat this crow.  This means that if Zoro was releasing and manipulating his 'chi' since Alabasta then Asura is also an extension of Zoro's spirit. On a tangent note, we can also now brush off Sanji's Diable Jambe as an unforeseen side effect of his father's experiments plus the pill his mom ate to prevent him from becoming like his brothers. 



#26 Grove 29

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 04:58 PM

When Rayleigh took away Caimies neck ring in the auction hall at Sabaody, he probably used projected Haki: Slicing the ring to get it off the neck and then moving it aside, both without touching the ring. If true, Armament Haki can be used like the Force in Star Wars.

 

Coincidentially, Luffy is wearing a neck ring and handcuffs right now...



#27 Shin

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 04:11 AM

Loaded chapter. Lot of information given. Guess I'll focus on the haki part of it before dealing with the Hiyori backstory stuff.

 

I've never really been a big fan of haki. I enjoyed it more when everything wasn't crammed under the haki umbrella, but at the same time I understood the need for why Oda created it. He needed some way to deal with logia users. Coming up with a similar rubber/lightning or water/sand counter for ever single logia was going to be too much so he needed some way to counter devil fruits on a more universal scale and I can't fault him for it. It was a necessity if Luffy and others were going to fight these people more, and it seems like as more time goes on the more Oda wants all abilities to be some variation of haki and retcons past abilities to be haki when they weren't designed to be it. So I could see Sanji's diable jambe or the abilties the CP9 used will eventually fall under haki as well just like the Skypiea mantra and the ability Zoro mastered in Alabasta are now haki. Also Luffy just so happens to be fighting with an old man in Hyou that knows the specific advanced haki technique that Luffy needs to learn that Rayleigh didn't bother teaching him does feel a bit too convenient. Questionable writing there, but I guess making it a more common technique that Zoro has been using since Alabasta makes it slightly more forgivable.

 

As for Zoro having been using what is an advanced haki technique since Alabasta that does change some things with how I think about them. So the ability to cut steel and probably flying slashes (the canon techniques) are haki. Which is what Luffy is trying to lean now so he can hurt Kaidou? So if these abilties are variations of CoA haki then Zoro should be able to use it as armor like Luffy, right? It makes me wonder why Zoro never thought to use the ability on himself to give him skin as strong as steel too or if his no sword style he used as a joke that one time actually is this? Guess this is conformation that Zoro's master is very strong though.

 

Also it makes me wonder if the ability he also used in Alabasta to find his sword under the rock is also haki now. That and not the ability to cut steel is what people used to speculate endlessly on if it was haki or not funny enough. So maybe it is just some form of CoO? Since it probably isn't that "voice of all things" Luffy, Roger and Momo have unless that voice thing is also haki in some way? I dunno, it is all confusing. Also I still have no idea what to make of the Asura ability which is also probably haki now, but I have no idea how that fits in because it is the single most bizarre One Piece technique to me in how out of place it feels. Haven't seen anyone use anything similar and is completely on its own island, lol.

 

As for the Hiyori backstory, I didn't like it. Her character and sub-plot is probably my least favorite part of Wano at the moment, and I was waiting to see what her backstory was as it was bugging me. So her mother decided to not send her to the future with Momo and the other retainers because she didn't want to risk the whole royal family being killed if the Momo thing failed? That feels like a very week explanation to something that was bothering me. So Hiyori has to suffer all alone under Orochi's rule and become a prostitute, maybe since she was 13, because her mother didn't believe in her own ability, but also why didn't Hiyori have any kids if protecting the royal line was so important? They were all betting on Momo coming back so she should have been sent to the future too if that was the case anyway. I hope there is more to her character as I don't care for it so far.

 

Maybe she is the traitor and actually very bitter and angry at her family for not sending her to the future, and wants to kill Momo for being chosen over her and also kill Orochi and rule Wano herself? Would make her spilling her whole story she kept hidden so long make more sense as she wants to find Momo to remove him. Anything would be more interesting I think than what we got.

 

At least it was interesting to lean that Kawamatsu looks like a kappa. So his design might be fun.



#28 Dude

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 11:41 PM

Anyone notice all the frog motifs .on top of usopp head,dancing in the rain that nami creates and basicly most of wano.i bet he well help with luffys training.he said he loves sumo.which luffy and franky do too.

Franky shogun/ iron pirate will make another debut I bet.

Edited by Dude, 16 April 2019 - 11:43 PM.

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#29 Abaroxa

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 03:05 AM

She sent momo to die 20 years later.

Quite honestly she should had sent momo with the frog too so He could get training from anywhere he could get it and grow up strong enough to get revenge. He could have been very useful now if that had happened. I really don't understand her plan.

 

She could have sent the everybody to a week later and she herself could have run away with kawamatsu


 

At this point haki is like having bartolomeos, jozus, violas and bobbins fruit altogether.


 

 

What? A Kappa is not an otter so that theory is proved wrong

 

 

I have to agree with that. But maybe it is a DF like Brooke's that if not trained only has a one time effect so she could only  send people into the future and only 1 time?

 

 

At first I thought kappa was just a nickname. I went back and saw that kappa is actually a turtle like creature.

 

True. Maybe thats how she ended up where she was. She probably doesn't know the full extend of her power as well as she can't control it properly.

The way hiyory says she stayed behind to make sure the kozuki timeline stayed alive implies that lady toki didn't know if she was sending momo further into the future of the same timeline of if she was creating a new timeline where momo was being sent to.


 

And now rey will be upstaged by a wano citizen because wano is better at everything. It is actually where boats and water were invented did you guys know that? The OP world was just a bunch of really tall mountains untill the wano country invented water.

 

I came to the conclusion that learning haki is like learning how to program.

When you start learning you kind of know there is a lot happening. No matter how much you ask about the advanced stuff, you'll never get the answer. You'll get this instead: It's too early for you to learn this; I'll tell you after you learn that first; You'll learn with experience.

Eventually you'll learn when put under a lot of pressure. Either at 4am down on your 2nd redbull with a deadline at 9am or at your new job where if you don't deliver by Friday you might aswell find a new job.

 

It's not like Reyleight is being upstaged. It simply wasn't luffys time to learn. 



#30 D.Hyuga

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 07:57 AM


The way hiyory says she stayed behind to make sure the kozuki timeline stayed alive implies that lady toki didn't know if she was sending momo further into the future of the same timeline of if she was creating a new timeline where momo was being sent to.

 

You didn't understand it. She split them so that they would have mopre chances for survival. Momo was hunted 20y after, so she didn't send him into safe future. Toki is not Madam Shirley, she can't see future, she can just travel into the future or send others into it.



#31 Scorpion2k4u

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 01:11 PM

I wonder what else is to that future fruit. I mean a one time ability that kills you is nothing that you can trsin. Therfore the question would be how the user knows how it works. Same could be asked about Law and his fruits super power of eternal life. Those kind of powers are not just broken because they can do what they can do but mainly because there should be no way of even knowing how to use then right.

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#32 Raiden

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Posted Yesterday, 09:11 AM



I wonder what else is to that future fruit. I mean a one time ability that kills you is nothing that you can trsin. Therfore the question would be how the user knows how it works.

Probably because they are described in the devil fruit book.


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#33 Fallen Angel

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Posted Yesterday, 10:08 AM

I'm having a hard time seeing how the deflection haki is an upgrade over the hardening haki. It has defensive applications and extends the range of one's attacks (which Luffy doesn't really need), but what's the difference?


I don't think it's an upgrade so much as it is a different application. That said I disagree that Luffy doesn't need it at all, perhaps it's not strictly needed against Kaido but I've always thought he would have to use it against Blackbeard due to his specific skill set. The ability to attack someone without directly touching them is definitely useful against an opponent that can nullify your devil fruit if they touch you, not to mention Blackbeard has his own ranged attacks due to his quakes which the deflection haki seems better suited to dealing with than hardening.
 

 

 


but at the same time I understood the need for why Oda created it. He needed some way to deal with logia users. Coming up with a similar rubber/lightning or water/sand counter for ever single logia was going to be too much so he needed some way to counter devil fruits on a more universal scale


Considering that the first logia introduced was a smoke one which has no natural counter unlike Crocodlie and and Enel I'm pretty certain that haki was a thing from the time the very concept of logias were thought of.
 

 


and it seems like as more time goes on the more Oda wants all abilities to be some variation of haki and retcons past abilities to be haki when they weren't designed to be it.


I don't know about the breath of all things but mantra was always haki, it has a different name because just like Wano it's in an isolated region of the world and thus it's extremely unlikey they would come up with the same terminology for it as the rest of the world. What proof do you have of that (or the "BOAT" for that matter) being a retcon?


Edited by Fallen Angel, Yesterday, 10:08 AM.

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#34 captain kidd

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Posted Yesterday, 01:47 PM

I wonder what else is to that future fruit. I mean a one time ability that kills you is nothing that you can trsin. Therfore the question would be how the user knows how it works. Same could be asked about Law and his fruits super power of eternal life. Those kind of powers are not just broken because they can do what they can do but mainly because there should be no way of even knowing how to use then right.


Either I missed something or you miss read something.

The future fruit doesn't kill the user, momo's mother chose to die in that fire because she sucks.....or plot... or some reason. Her official reason was that her story ends there. Idk sounds like suicide to me.

As for the other stuff, well there is alot that fruit can do that makes no sense. There is probably a feeling people get from the fruit that tells them. The same way zoan users know how to transform. No one tells them "hey squeeze your left abdominal muscle and you will turn into a animal, flex your right bicep and you become half animal half man...." so they clearly get some type of feelings from the fruit about how to use their powers, it is reasonable to assume they have some indication what those powers are.
Law himself said that using his fruit takes stamina, and using the fruit too much drains his life. It is probably a safe assumption that the fruit's ultimate technic kills the user.
 

You know that he is the one in prison with luffy right? ^^ and I think it was also around that time he was put into that prison.


No I did not know that, these names are impossible to keep straight.

So was momo's sister playing coy or did she not notice the arresting officers or what?
 
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#35 Shin

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Posted Yesterday, 09:12 PM


I don't know about the breath of all things but mantra was always haki, it has a different name because just like Wano it's in an isolated region of the world and thus it's extremely unlikey they would come up with the same terminology for it as the rest of the world. What proof do you have of that (or the "BOAT" for that matter) being a retcon?

 

I've read it and I don't think when he created mantra that it was designed to be this universal will powered haki system that it is now. I think when Oda created mantra it was used as a way to showcase Enel being this "God" character that could always see and know what the citizens were doing and could punish them at any time. It was created to help build up that image. Which is what kept the citizens in line and all of them were scared to disobey him. Then when characters like Aisa were revealed to have it she was designed to be this oracle type character, fitting in with the themes of Enel being a God, but was also used to show how Enel isn't this God figure and a little girl has the same ability as him that she was born with.

 

That has always been my personal take on it. Then later Oda decided to retcon or repurpose it into being part of haki instead of this one off things when he was figuring out what he wanted haki to be, which I don't think the early stages happened until around the Enies Lobby arc when he wanted to have some will powered system he first demonstrated with Shanks unleashing his "will" on Whitebeard's crew. 

 

I know there are those that think differently and think haki had been planned out for a long, long time even going all the way back to Skypiea or even the start of the manga, but I never bought into that.



#36 D.Hyuga

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Posted Today, 08:12 AM

Haki is part of OP extended universe. OP was planned for 5-7years publication.






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