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Is Luffy Considered the strongest version of a Yonko commander or the weakest version of a Yonko?


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#1 Leper

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 12:12 AM

Discuss.



#2 capu

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 04:44 AM

Interesting question, although i dont think that Luffy is already the strongest yonkou commander, i think many others may consider him the strongest already, leaving him in position of weakest yonkou (after Wano).

 

as for now i dont see anyone who matters (inside of op world) to truly consider Luffy a yonkou, BB stated right away that Luffy does not have  what it takes to be yonkou after all.

I mean honestly why should Kaidou consider Luffy yonkou lvl? He one shotted him after all, while being on a drunk i might add. Same with the sane BM, Luffy did nothing to her his hit  was parried with a smile on her face, thus with ez.


Edited by capu, 08 August 2019 - 04:47 AM.

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#3 KUROkami

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 07:12 AM

Very interesting question ..will get back later on my break

#4 captain kidd

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 08:05 AM

Well that depends..... I wouldnt say he is the weakest but... I dont think we can say he is the strongest.

Due to the fact that crackers is absolute trash luffy best him with the help of nami, however I seriously doubt luffy would of struggled without nami. And without a doubt luffy is stronger then snacks, who was demoted after losing to urgue.

Jack has been a joke recently who knows where luffy stacks up compared to them. Queen did nothing aside from make a huge fool out of himself against bm. In fact I would dare say luffy did 100x better against bm then queen because he wasnt as effortlessly beaten and if he had a chance to get a free hit on BM I am sure he would of done more then queen did.

So then we have dogtooth. Luffy beat him after taking a break mid fight. Even if you ignore that, judging by his bounty and the fact all the other bm pirate commanders have lower bounties then the beast pirate commanders, I wouldnt hold dogtooth up as a top commander.

But Burgess? He lost to someone with a 600m bounty..... I like Burgess, I think the dude has brass balls and a cool design. But he needs some serious rehab if Oda wants us to take him seriously. Like he needs to show up and defeat kiadou, or beath the whole sh crew on his own, he is looking really really bad after losing to sabo.

As for shanks we have literally nothing to estimate the power of his crew.
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#5 Oben

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 10:37 AM

Going purely by public perception, he's more of a 5th emperor at this point, since Morgans is working hard to convince the world of it.

 

By powerlevels... His fight with Kaidou still left him one tier lower imo, and even with his recent training, I don't think he's quite there yet. He should be in the upper commander league though, but since we haven't seen all of them in a proper fight, who knows how he actually ranks in there.


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#6 Frankenstein

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 12:36 PM

Yea I'd say he's high commander level but not highest. He's def not yonko level yet tho since literally can't even damage them yet as we saw with his clash with BM and the Kaido oneshot. Of course it could be different now after his recent training but as of his last fight, he's not. He didn't even try to push back and just ran away while in Udon so there's that.

I can't say he's highest commander level yet since Katakuri so obviously gave him that W and King is being portrayed as being stronger than him so Luffy would still struggle against King at the moment IMO. We don't even know who BB's strongest commander is yet but it better not be Burgess with his weak ass lol



#7 Raiden

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 01:21 PM


I wouldnt hold dogtooth up as a top commander.

 

really you wouldn't? I think Katakuri is totally a Top Level Commander, probably only bested by King.


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#8 ddboy102

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 02:31 PM


Luffy beat him after taking a break mid fight.

 

Doggy even stabbed himself to even out the fight.


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#9 Ajh77

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 06:04 PM

He is somewhere around the mid-high Yonkou commander level. 

 

He isn't close to being the weakest Yonkou/Gokou.  Kaido one shotting him in his strongest Gear cements that.


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#10 Shin

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 06:35 PM

I don't think you can really put Luffy into the same level as the other Yonkou yet. Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaidou, Shanks, and Blackbeard all feel in a category of their own. Well maybe except Blackbeard, but we haven't seen Blackbeard fight since he took WB's fruit. Before the timeskip BB fought fairly evenly with Ace and even Luffy was able to fight him some, so his strength feels a bit more all over the place. But the other 4 Yonkou we have seen feel like they are in a different category than Luffy. Like how the 4 of them can split the heavens when they clash.

 

So I'd say that Luffy is probably stronger than any Yonkou Commander and he is looked at on that level more. The only exception I'd have to that might be Marco if you still want to count him, but Luffy is on that level of Katakuri and King (if he is the strongest in Kaidou's crew) and so on I feel like. People like Dof probably fit in that too. In that tier right below the Yonkou.



#11 D.Hyuga

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 07:31 PM

I always thought that RH crew is the stronegst, df-less policy makes them rely on haki, pure fighting skills, physical strength.

And also their yonko should be the weakest(or 2. weakest depending of BB present strenght), BM, Kaido are(and WB were) freaks of nature, a league of their own.

 

So for me Luffy is yet to win a straight fight against yonko commander(no Nami, no mirror witch), so Luffy is low lv yonko commander lv for now.



#12 captain kidd

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 10:53 PM

really you wouldn't? I think Katakuri is totally a Top Level Commander, probably only bested by King.


Well the main problem I have is a mix of manga logic and lack of feats.

1st manga logic says enemies get stronger as the manga goes on. Clearly op shakes that up a little because wb and akainu fought at the half way mark, but when it comes to luffy oda isnt going to have him beat up Crocodile then go back to the east blue and lay the smack down on a few fodder pirates he forgot. So logic says the 1st top commander luffy beat should be the weakest of the top commanders.

That alone would be a horrible arguement but we have the second arguement-

There are no feats. For anyone. Dogtooth is the only commander with any....real feats. We have a spectrum of "feats" from the other commanders.
On the low end Marco and jozu were trash compared to the admirals, Burgess was defeated....badly... and kizaru didnt even give ben the time of day.
On the high end, king defeated and entire emperor crew by himself and queen "defeated" an emperor. And sabo (do ra commanders count?) Defeated Burgess very easily.

So between the lack of feats to properly place dogtooth and the natural progression of the manga it makes sense dogtooth would be one of the weaker commanders.
That is until ben and Burgess show us and get one shot by brooke.
 
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#13 Raiden

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 04:31 AM



That alone would be a horrible arguement but we have the second arguement-

 

Good that you mentioned that yourself ^^ because it is a horrible argument (even with the second one attached to it)

 

Also Luffy "defeating" Katakuri is kind of a stretch. They are more equally matched than anything (you said it yourself. Luffy had a pause in the middle of the fight) and Katakuri having future sight and awakening makes it hard for me to believe he is the weakest commander (especially since Marco and Jozu never showed any hints of possesing any of these abilites)


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#14 Hurley Pirates

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 07:51 AM

Well He's probably not Stronger then Aokiji if he really did end up joining BB's crew (Whether that be as a spy or otherwise lol) 

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They all can still be stronger than Luffy right now.

 

Also, Luffy did beat Katakuri. He lost the first match when he ran away.

 

But round 2 when he fought him straight up with no help and even got jumped and still walked away. Thats a W. Luffy won for 3 reasons imo.

 

1- Katakuri and other BM pirates it seems *cough Cracker cough* Lack the necessary durability to sustain high impact shots when they are being accumulated on them. More then likely this is due to a lack of competition and fighting on a day to day basis. If youre not being tested you can only become so strong as it were.

 

2- It can be argued that Luffy knew/had the means to defeat Katakuri throughout most of the fight and simply didn't utlize Snake-man in an attempt to increase his own power with Future sight. Might be a stretch but hear me out. Luffy already encountered an Observation haki user that could "predict" his movements in Boa's sister. How did he overcome that prediction? Using Gear 2 to move faster then she could react even if she knew where he was coming from. Snake-Man played a very similar role in Luffys fight vs Katakuri but on a higher/faster level that resulted in KAtakuri NOT being able to predict/see the attacks. Also We see that Bound-Man punches send Katakuri flying when they land but he regains his composure and they can no longer land flush or at all. Snakeman was the obvious choice to use and while it lacks the Pop that Bound man has, it does produce enough to take Katakuri down.

 

3- End of the day Luffy got sneak attacked by Kata's sister creating a massive blow and then pummeled by Katakuri. Even the self inflicted stab wound didn't equate to the damage luffy suffered from that sneak attack then stab then beat down so tough titties bruh you wasn't strong enough lol

 

Anyway, Luffy aint Yonko Level or probably even strongest commander yet. He hasn't fought anyone for days ( Cracker/Katakuri weren't really straight up fights for days ) yet as im sure some of these guys I named can and have.


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#15 Chillman

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 08:59 AM

Luffy has to beat a commander 1v1 without assistance before I can say he’s beyond their level.
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#16 Leper

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 09:39 AM

In terms of physical strength, no I don't think he's on that level. He's on the level right below it. That much is evident. He got casually one-shotted by Kaido in his strongest form. But think about this way. Being a Yonko is not all about physical strength (though that's a HUGE part of it). It's about alliances, territory, and overall influence too, which none of the commanders have, whereas Luffy has all three. So in a sense, he is like a Yonko, but on a smaller scale. This is what distinguishes Luffy the most from the other commanders imo. 


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#17 Oben

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 10:36 AM

In terms of physical strength, no I don't think he's on that level. He's on the level right below it. That much is evident. He got casually one-shotted by Kaido in his strongest form. But think about this way. Being a Yonko is not all about physical strength (though that's a HUGE part of it). It's about alliances, territory, and overall influence too, which none of the commanders have, whereas Luffy has all three. So in a sense, he is like a Yonko, but on a smaller scale. This is what distinguishes Luffy the most from the other commanders imo.


I think I agree with your overall sentiment, but the argument is bit weird - of course the commanders don't have alliances on their own, because they're all subordinates. By that logic, only captains can ever matter, which kinda defeats the whole argument. I also disagree that they have no political leverage - they still have their spot up in the hierarchy of their crew. If Katakuri gives a command to some ally of BM, it will definitely be followed, unless BM directly contradicts it. Being close to the top in the Yonkou hierarchies gives them more power than they would have as individual captains, not less.


Edited by Oben, 09 August 2019 - 10:37 AM.


#18 captain kidd

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 11:15 AM

Good that you mentioned that yourself ^^ because it is a horrible argument (even with the second one attached to it)

Also Luffy "defeating" Katakuri is kind of a stretch. They are more equally matched than anything (you said it yourself. Luffy had a pause in the middle of the fight) and Katakuri having future sight and awakening makes it hard for me to believe he is the weakest commander (especially since Marco and Jozu never showed any hints of possesing any of these abilites)


No alone it is a bad arguement, taken with other facts it is legitimate. Unless you are ready to argue that enemies do NOT get stronger as manga goes on then you have to admit it is a good argument too.

Like I said, there are many factors that need to be looked at, what position in the crew they are... what they do for the captain... for example Khalifa (the weakest CP9 agent) is much stronger then hogback (the weakest TB crew member) however you wouldnt dare argue that ohm is stronger then kaku would you? You wouldnt argue that Mr 1 is stronger then ohm would you (ohm has CoO)

So I dont see why the #2 in the next arc would be weaker then the #2 of the previous arc. We can all agree that the main enemy generally gets stronger (or easier for luffy to beat)

Careful there... it is clear luffy wasnt as strong as dogtooth but st the end of the day dogoltooth was the one who let(because he couldn't avoid g3?) luffy throw him in mirror world, dogtooth was the guy who was too slow to stop luffy's escape, hell dogtooth is the one who didnt yell at bluree "you worthless traitor get out of mirror world and only come back in when I hold luffy's severed head up to a mirror"


He is strong but is he one of the top commanders? What I am saying is the current commanders we have feats on are king and dogtooth. And king defeated an entire emperor crew in one shot. Even the guy below king defeated an emperor.
From what we have seen BM is likely the weakest emperor. (She was first also hahaha) so why would the weakest emperor have the strongest top commander?
We already know shiellew. The number 2 commander, is a monster, we know ben is built up to be a big deal. So absent any other info I cant say dogtooth is at the top.
 
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#19 Raiden

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 12:28 PM

No alone it is a bad arguement, taken with other facts it is legitimate. Unless you are ready to argue that enemies do NOT get stronger as manga goes on then you have to admit it is a good argument too.

Like I said, there are many factors that need to be looked at, what position in the crew they are... what they do for the captain... for example Khalifa (the weakest CP9 agent) is much stronger then hogback (the weakest TB crew member) however you wouldnt dare argue that ohm is stronger then kaku would you? You wouldnt argue that Mr 1 is stronger then ohm would you (ohm has CoO)

So I dont see why the #2 in the next arc would be weaker then the #2 of the previous arc. We can all agree that the main enemy generally gets stronger (or easier for luffy to beat)

Careful there... it is clear luffy wasnt as strong as dogtooth but st the end of the day dogoltooth was the one who let(because he couldn't avoid g3?) luffy throw him in mirror world, dogtooth was the guy who was too slow to stop luffy's escape, hell dogtooth is the one who didnt yell at bluree "you worthless traitor get out of mirror world and only come back in when I hold luffy's severed head up to a mirror"


He is strong but is he one of the top commanders? What I am saying is the current commanders we have feats on are king and dogtooth. And king defeated an entire emperor crew in one shot. Even the guy below king defeated an emperor.
From what we have seen BM is likely the weakest emperor. (She was first also hahaha) so why would the weakest emperor have the strongest top commander?
We already know shiellew. The number 2 commander, is a monster, we know ben is built up to be a big deal. So absent any other info I cant say dogtooth is at the top.

 

OK and do you think Enel is weaker than Hodi? (ok it's not the fairest comparison because luffy just was a super good match-up into Enel but still) Or is Megallan weaker than Hodi? Hell almost every main antagonist in the series before Foxy is stronger then him also in the scenario of a Davy Back fight.

 

Especially in OP the match-up matters a lot more than the actual strength, why this argument "That villain came after that one so he is 100% stronger than him" just doesn't always work, especially now where we enter the Yonko-Commander Power-Levels, which I think there isn't that much difference between them (after all the Yonkos are considered to be on pretty even footing)

 

Also the "feat" you mention from King isn't really much of a feat and nothing in comparison to Katakuri's feats. He just smacked a way a ship that was in mid-air, that is a decent strength feat at best. And yeah I don't know how you can compare what Queen has done to what Katakuri has done and say "yeah Queen is much stronger than Katakuri".

 

Also we also got feats from Jozu and Marco (unimpressive feats btw).

 

so yeah Katakuri is a Top Commander at least at the moment. (I'm pretty sure Ben will be the strongest Commander but yeah we have no feats yet)


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#20 Ajh77

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 07:04 AM

Luffy has to beat a commander 1v1 without assistance before I can say he’s beyond their level.

This is why I still think Luffy is below the top Yonkou commanders.  He needed notable assistance to win against Doflamingo, Cracker, and Katakuri.  So, I think he is strong enough to fight against that level of power, but I do not think he is strong enough to have a straightforward battle and win the fight.

 

Basically, he hasn't had his 'Luffy v Lucci' fight in the New World.  That fight showed they were both close in overall power and Luffy just had more willpower in the final moments.  I can't say the same about any of the Yonkou commander fights.

 

So yeah, weakest Yonkou/Gokou is completely out of the question. 


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