Jump to content


Photo

One Piece Chapter 964 Discussion


  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#21 masterbio

masterbio

    Shinigami

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,913 posts

Posted 30 November 2019 - 06:05 AM

Did we already know that Toki could only just jump forward in time? At least that's the idea I got from this chapter.

 

Also assuming that is during this absence that Orochi consolidates power without Oden knowing.

 

And I have to say, I enjoy Oden and I'm having fun with the flashback


  • Gazhead, Madara D Dragon and trafalgarlawisop like this

#22 Timppafin93

Timppafin93

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 148 posts

Posted 30 November 2019 - 06:16 AM

Did we already know that Toki could only just jump forward in time? At least that's the idea I got from this chapter.

 

Yes, in chapter 920.


  • Kid Frost and Chillman like this

#23 Baks

Baks

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,413 posts

Posted 30 November 2019 - 07:32 AM

I think almost everyone had already assumed it but it's nice to get confirmation that Toki is from the Void Century era.


What confirmation? Where is your proof to back up your statement?

#24 Kid Frost

Kid Frost

    Hime

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 283 posts
  • LocationJet-Setting

Posted 30 November 2019 - 01:04 PM

Did we already know that Toki could only just jump forward in time?


Yeah it's the first thing she ever said in the story, that restriction is the main reason that most of the fanbase stopped freaking out over the time travel since many of them had convinced themselves that it was going to ruin the story forever.
 

Also assuming that is during this absence that Orochi consolidates power without Oden knowing.


That's pretty unlikely given the information that we already have, not only are most Oden's retainers still in Wano but all of the other Daimyo (Yasuie, Ushimaru, etc) are there as well and they all could easily stop him from doing what he wanted. Not to mention that Oden himself is going to return to Wano at least a few times since we know he's there when Roger visits Wano as well as the fact that his kids are likely born there. Just to give a quick rundown of events that we know of up until his death.  

30 years ago: (Current chapter) Oden, Inu, Neko, and Izo join Whitebeards crew and Oden meets Toki

28 years ago: Momo is born and this likely when Oden and Toki return to Wano. / The same year Roger comes down with an incurable disease and begins his final journey. Oden, Neko, and Inu have to be on the crew by that point so this is the year they join.

26 years ago: Hiyori is born. / Since we know Neko and Inu don't stay with the Roger Pirates all the way to Laugh Tale, this is likely when they leave the crew.*

25 years ago: The Roger pirates find Laugh Tale and discover the True History of the World / Gol D. Roger becomes known as the Pirate King  / The Roger Pirates disband and the crew members go their separate ways. Oden likely returns to Wano at this point.*

24 years ago: Roger turns himself in and is executed by the World Government creating The Golden Age of Piracy.

20 years ago: Kaido forms and alliance with Orochi and takes over Wano / Oden is executed as criminal in the Flower Capital. / Kinemon, Kanjuro, Raizo, Kiku, and Momo are sent to the future by Toki.
 


  • Chillman and Fallen Angel like this

WZhSNm9.jpg

Spoiler Top 20 Anime Updated

Spoiler Top 20 Manga

Spoiler Top 20 Western Comics

#25 Fallen Angel

Fallen Angel

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 53 posts

Posted 30 November 2019 - 01:55 PM

What confirmation? Where is your proof to back up your statement?

Are you being serious?

The Void Century lasted from 900 years ago until 800 years ago + Toki was born at least 830 years ago = Toki was born during the Void Century
 

I stick with what I said. The minks needs to specify which moon gives them powers. With so many moons, full moons should be more frequent than what they already are.


I've already responded to your claims about the moon in this post...
https://onemangaforu...sion/?p=1203936

Unless you have new evidence to provide for your claims I don't feel like addressing this again.
 

As for my maths.. it wasn't that wrong given how I thought the events of this chapter took place 33 years ago .


I was pretty much joking in my last post but to think you would attempt make this argument is actually crazy; the reason you thought it was 33 years ago is because your math was wrong in the first place. Look at your own post...
 

Just maths..
Oden started is flashback with 18 (38 years ago), then he became kuri daiymio with 20 and 6 years later WB reached wano.


Let's ignore the actual canon for now and pretend that all of this is true. According to you the flashback started 38 years ago and then we had a 2 year timeskip when he became a Daimyo and then another timeskip 6 year timeskip before he met Whitebeard.

Even using the numbers of your own post if you had done the math correctly the current chapter would be 30 years ago; (38 - 2) - 6 = 30.
This is actually correct, though for the wrong reasons, the irony is that you were off by three years in when the flashback started and then you forgot about the final three year timeskip but these two mistakes cancel each other out so you should've arrived at 30 years regardless. Instead you subtracted two years and then six years from 38 years and got 33 years, in what world is that not an example of the math being wrong.
 

that restriction is the main reason that most of the fanbase stopped freaking out over the time travel since many of them had convinced themselves that it was going to ruin the story forever.


I never understood all that hysteria, people were claiming that time travel ruins every anime and manga that it appears in but all of the stories that prominently feature time travel that I can think of in recent memory pulled it off really well. Puella Magi Madoka Magica, Steins;Gate, Fairy Tail, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Your Name, etc. Some of these are among the best series of the past decade and even the ones that aren't great have flaws that have nothing to do with time travel. That "time travel ruins everything hysteria" never made sense to me.


  • Kid Frost and Madara D Dragon like this

#26 Chillman

Chillman

    Shinigami

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,680 posts

Posted 30 November 2019 - 06:15 PM


people were claiming that time travel ruins every anime and manga

 

Specifically those or media in general?



#27 Abaroxa

Abaroxa

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,308 posts

Posted 30 November 2019 - 09:11 PM

@Fallen Angel I hate you  :meh:



#28 Kid Frost

Kid Frost

    Hime

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 283 posts
  • LocationJet-Setting

Posted 30 November 2019 - 10:26 PM

Honestly when it comes to time travel stories being badly written I think that mostly applies to sequels, for instance all of the Terminator films after Judgement Day. I thought the original Steins;Gate and the Android Saga of Dragon Ball used time travel well but Steins;Gate Zero and the Zamasu arc of Dragon Ball Super were a mess. :shrug:

Anyway despite Roger, Shanks, and Whitebeard all being in it Toki was the most interesting part of the chapter for me, mostly because she's such an enigma. On one hand her actions don't seem all that calculated but it's hard to imagine that she's been just traveling through time indiscriminately especially since she to have a particular destination in mind. Also maybe it's because I'm a mother myself but I could never understand her decision to die rather than travel with her kids, that seems incomprehensible to me unless she saw a specific future where it had to happen (similar to Dr. Strange in Infinity War).

Even her prophetic abilities leave a lot of questions, she could see far enough in the future with enough accuracy to know that the Onigashima Raid will happen on a full moon but she couldn't see Orochi's betrayal coming in order to warn Oden.   
 


  • Shin likes this

WZhSNm9.jpg

Spoiler Top 20 Anime Updated

Spoiler Top 20 Manga

Spoiler Top 20 Western Comics

#29 Abaroxa

Abaroxa

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,308 posts

Posted 01 December 2019 - 01:08 PM

Is it possible that jack wasn't really 8 when kaido took over wano. Maybe and just maybe, lady toki sent him 10 years into the future.



#30 PunkHazard

PunkHazard

    Exorcist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,282 posts
  • LocationRight over there -->

Posted 01 December 2019 - 04:21 PM

Baseless assumption, it wasn't stated in the chapter at all that Toki was born in the Void Century like you claimed.

I am still not a fan of Oden btw, but his interactions with Whitebeard and his crew where nice.

I wonder why Roger is intrigued about Oden for tbh.

wasnt the void century 800 years ago? Or am I misremembering it?
 

Is it possible that jack wasn't really 8 when kaido took over wano. Maybe and just maybe, lady toki sent him 10 years into the future.

yea this is a weird trend wit the yonkous for some reason. Their top commanders are so much younger then them. Even if we ignore BM cause her commanders are her kids. Why is Marco and Jack so much younger then them? I dont like it. I thought Jack was in his forties at least(well hopefully King is) but marco being basically a cabin boys is weird wen whitebeard is already in his 40s

Edited by PunkHazard, 01 December 2019 - 04:32 PM.


#31 Madara D Dragon

Madara D Dragon

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,240 posts

Posted 02 December 2019 - 02:45 PM

The WG is composed of.... what.. 170 nations? That would mean that there is a ton of unclaimed land out there.

Also it is amazing with all those islands Luffy only had to go to 4...wait that's it? green bit, alabasta(cheater) skypiea, w7. Ya wow luffy's log pose only took him to 4 islands before he was half way around the world. (But he cheated by jumping to alabasta with an eternal pose) oh wait did foxy's islamd count? Ok maybe 5.

Well, to the first point: A nation can be composed by multiple islands, so it doesn't have to be THAT much unclaimed land.

To the second: you just covered the Grand line, where, as you stated, the SH's could've skiped a lot of islands. And on top of that, the grand line is most ñikely less than a 1/4 of the area of the OP world (we cannot guess how much with accuracy bc Oda sucks with proportions and each time the world map appears the grand line can have different size, but the blues seem to be bigger in all of them).
 

I never understood all that hysteria, people were claiming that time travel ruins every anime and manga that it appears in but all of the stories that prominently feature time travel that I can think of in recent memory pulled it off really well. Puella Magi Madoka Magica, Steins;Gate, Fairy Tail, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Your Name, etc. Some of these are among the best series of the past decade and even the ones that aren't great have flaws that have nothing to do with time travel. That "time travel ruins everything hysteria" never made sense to me.

I personally haven't red any of the manga's you cited (except Fairy Tale), but I have read/seen stories with time travel used nicely. The point isn't that it is impossible to make a good story with it, but more that it is easy to create plot-holes.

Again,I have no idea about the ones you named but I could bet on at least one of those having an overanalizing prick who found a plot-hole on it (even if irrelevant to the main story). If not then sure, but you get my point. As much as I know stories where time travel was used nicely, I know even more where it left some few (or even many) plotholes. And you know how OP's fanbase is, Oda constantly feeds overanalizing fans with his references (like in this flashback with all the WB commanders and allied pirates and so on), so a big part of OP would think less of the manga if some of those difficult to avoid plotholes arose.

Then again, the best way to avoid the plotholes is retckoning the time-travel, in this case by only allowing it to go forward. Therefore it's just as if a person disappears and appears years later, no need for parallel universes or an unavoidable story line to give sense to the story.
 

yea this is a weird trend wit the yonkous for some reason. Their top commanders are so much younger then them. Even if we ignore BM cause her commanders are her kids. Why is Marco and Jack so much younger then them? I dont like it. I thought Jack was in his forties at least(well hopefully King is) but marco being basically a cabin boys is weird wen whitebeard is already in his 40s

Man, you're looking at it the wrong way (imo). You are disapointed to see that the first commander was a kid when the captain was in his prime... Sure.

Now think it realistically: you have a crew. You have some cabin boys. 30 years pass by and that guy is in his 40's and is one of the strongest of the crew... Would you stop giving him the commander position because he used to be a kid 30 years ago?

Pirates who stay relevant way past their begining as pirates renew the fighting core of their crew. As any sports team does. And if you don't you end up like Dofflamingo...

Edited by Madara D Dragon, 02 December 2019 - 02:47 PM.

"You can't take the King Marco_by_Kanomaru.gifon your first turn!!"

         FoundeothTrafalgaLafan-clu-----> :aww: 


#32 trafalgarlawisop

trafalgarlawisop

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,060 posts

Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:56 AM

Toki really looks too much like Hiyori (they are indeed related ).

 

Toki has the ability to jump in time to escape dangerous situations... I wonder how if she can control the exact moment where she jumps and send someone into the future.

 

Can she see the future and multiple futures (like Doctor Strange) as well :hmm:   ?



#33 Shin

Shin

    Ultimate Survivor

  • Moderators
  • 2,155 posts
  • LocationUnder a bridge

Posted 04 December 2019 - 04:28 AM

Flashback is getting a bit more interesting now that we are off Wano. Seeing Whitebeard and his whole crew interact with Oden was entertaining. I liked how the flashback is still structured through Oden's own narration with him writing down all that happened to him. Feels like that might come into play latter. Also Oden's character came across a bit better here too. He reminds me of a mix between Luffy and Zoro. He has Luffy's adventurous personality and gets super excited by new things, but gets annoyed by people the way Zoro does. Also it looks like in that one panel where WB is talking to Izo you can see Blackbeard's legs on the far right. I really hope he appears in the flashback too. 

 

I am surprised how Oden and Toki met. I figured it would be a bit more eventful instead of finding her on some random island. It feels pretty certain that she is from that Void Century, but I guess she had been trying to travel to Wano for a while from whatever caused her to initially jump forward in time. Wonder why she wants to go to Wano too. Maybe after what happened in the Void Century Wano is the place she felt safe to go to? Or maybe she was from Wano originally given how she is dressed? Those symbols are her clothes are probably a key. Also I wonder if the sword she had is going to be important later too. I am still very curious to find out why exactly she decided to only send Momo to the future and not Hiyori, or why she didn't go to the future with them all. Some of those decisions make her look bad or wrong, but that doesn't feel like the whole story too. 

 

Also one thing that bothered me and I wonder if it will be properly explained is why Whitebeard, and especially Izo, did not try and help liberate Wano from Orochi and Kaidou. It really does make WB and Izo look bad if they ignored the whole situation and left Wano alone to be controlled by Orochi for 20 years after Oden died. WB seemingly considered Oden part of his crew, even if he left, and Izo is from Wano, was saved by Oden, and has family there and if he choose WB over trying to help his home that casts him in a bad light, imo. I wonder if there is going to be an outcome where WB and Izo don't look bad from all this. 



#34 Scorpion2k4u

Scorpion2k4u

    Pirate

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,980 posts
  • Locationsurrounding you

Posted 04 December 2019 - 02:17 PM

Well it was certainly a gamble by Kaido to go and kill a member of both the WB pirates and of the PK King crew.

I wouldn't want to piss them off both.

2mg5kyb.jpg


#35 Abaroxa

Abaroxa

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,308 posts

Posted 06 December 2019 - 09:25 AM

Well it was certainly a gamble by Kaido to go and kill a member of both the WB pirates and of the PK King crew.

I wouldn't want to piss them off both.


Thats why some of the plot makes no sense to me.
rayleigh, shanks and WB would have tried to avenge their comrade.
Kaido wasn't as strong 20 years as he is now. At least his crew wasn't if Jack was really 8 when they invaded wano.

#36 Chillman

Chillman

    Shinigami

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,680 posts

Posted 07 December 2019 - 12:17 AM

Is Oden’s death even known to others outside of Wano?
  • Strobacaxi likes this

#37 captain kidd

captain kidd

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,765 posts

Posted 07 December 2019 - 09:42 AM

Well it was certainly a gamble by Kaido to go and kill a member of both the WB pirates and of the PK King crew.

I wouldn't want to piss them off both.


Ya I have to assume that wb was really angry that oden ditched him for roger.

Because ace was allowed to sleep on enemy ships without fear of his death because everyone knew that killing a WB pirate would mean their death.

Either that or kiadou is just really strong. Maybe wb couldnt put him down.

Or, and this is a long shot (because I still have no freaking clue what wb was doing on the rocks crew) maybe wb owed cabin boy kiadou a favor for saving his life once and therefore didnt hunt him down. If kiadou owes BM one from their time in rocks it makes sense kinda.


Hey wait. Hopefully we will get to see WB chase down kiadou in this flashback...oh but the fight will be off screened... never mind
 
captain "Nostradamus" kidd
banner.png
 

#38 D.Hyuga

D.Hyuga

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,175 posts

Posted 07 December 2019 - 06:51 PM

Is Oden’s death even known to others outside of Wano?

Ace was in Wano so I guess it should.

And WB div commander would probably tought that there is something wrong, if there is no news from his brother in 20y.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users