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BnHA Chapter 265 Discussion


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#1 Hikari-Senca

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 04:20 PM

Welp, it was bound to happen eventually https://w15.readhero...ia-chapter-265/



#2 pyrogenic

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 04:31 PM

Bubaigawara is a psychopath, maniac and an idiot with dangerous quirk. No reason to hesitate when dealing with him.

#3 Chillman

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 09:13 PM

Bubaigawara is a psychopath, maniac and an idiot with dangerous quirk. No reason to hesitate when dealing with him.

He's clearly a mentally ill person, and it's not like he's completely wrong about heroes.


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#4 Kaidou

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 12:03 PM

The league of villains that helped him, a mentally ill eprson, so no wonder hes on their side, heros did nothing to help him so why should care for them?


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#5 Tokoya

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 12:16 PM

Am I the only one who feels like Hori did Redestro dirty
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#6 Chillman

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 03:19 PM

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#7 Fenrix

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 05:44 PM

Am I the only one who feels like Hori did Redestro dirty

Because of the fact that he was one-shotted by Tokoyami? Hard to believe that Re-Destro was the one giving Shiggy a hard time earlier.

Throughout this whole arc, Hawks has been giving major death flags and I feel that the next time Tokoyami sees Hawks is when he's about to die :(

Edited by Fenrix, 22 March 2020 - 05:44 PM.

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#8 Raiden

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 06:03 PM

Hawks nooooo! Please don't die :( 


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#9 Baks

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 10:58 PM

I hope that Hawks lives too.

But if he has to die, then I suspect it will be most likely be either Twice or Dabi or even both of them to be the main culprits behind Hawks future demise tbh.
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#10 Jekkusormi

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:04 AM

I on the other hand wish Hawks to die, I just don't like him. I'm not sure why I don't like him though.

Question: Bubaigawaras clones can use te quirk of their model. Can he make clones of someone who's dead, Magne for example?

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#11 Fallen Angel

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 10:08 AM

I didn't see a thread for it but I wanted to say that the Heroes Rising movie was absolutely awesome, one of the best movies I've seen in a while anime or otherwise. Every student (aside from Hagakure) was amazing in that movie. Highly recommended for anyone that's a fan of this series.

The league of villains that helped him, a mentally ill eprson, so no wonder hes on their side, heros did nothing to help him so why should care for them?


This is completely disingenuous. You guys are acting as if Jin was an outcast that was persecuted or discriminated against by hero society for reasons beyond his control. This is a false notion and honestly quite a ridiculous one. Granted I think there are people that can and should take issue with how hero society operates but Jin is not one of those people.

He says "you people aint heroes...you throw us to the wolves, all of us downtrodden folks."
I'm going to go through his backstory and someone tell me at what point he was either oppressed or thrown to the wolves by the heroes because this to me is straight up nonsense.

1. Jin lost his job due to the unlucky circumstance of getting into an accident with an important client of his boss. Now this is without a doubt unfair to Jin and his boss is trash but that incident has nothing to do with heroes at all. Unfortunately people lose their jobs all the time for reasons beyond their control. One of my ex girlfriends lost her job at the airport because of how badly the airlines have been hit during the Coronavirus pandemic, life it isn't always easy.

2. As a result of losing his job he faced economic hardship, this led to starting a life of crime where he became a nationally wanted criminal and a S Rank villain. While he didn't have a choice in being fired everything he did afterwards was his own decision. He could've tried to find another stable job or done anything else but in his own words he wanted to take it easy and crime was to easy way out. The heroes didn't force him into a life of crime he did that himself but obviously once you're a top ranked villain they will try to apprehend you since that's kind of their job.

3. Excessively using his quirk to "live like a King" led to the Clone Wars of which he was to only survivor. While this is truly traumatic it's partially his own fault due to the lifestyle he was living at the time. Regardless of how much blame you place on Jin there's no way hero society can be blamed for what happened at all, they were not involved directly or indirectly in this unfortunate tragedy.

4. As result of his psychological disorder and him looking for a place that he could fit in he joined the League of Villain on Giran's recommendation. Now I want to point out that the league didn't accept him because they're such kind and understanding people but rather because his quirk his really useful. Also there is no evidence that he ever tried to seek help from anyone beyond other villains, especially since he said that he was looking for people that were as crazy as himself.
He rejected society on his own due to his preconceived notions and trust issues without even checking to see whether they would accept him.
I find it impossible to believe that if he had come forward seeking help that nobody in society, hero or otherwise, would try to get him help for his mental illness whether that's through a psychiatrist, quirk counseling, or some other means. Even last chapter Hawks was still willing to give him a chance at redemption once he atoned for his past crimes. That is more than fair seeing as he did join the most notorious villain organization in the country and was already a nationally wanted criminal before that.  
 
At what point in that backstory was he ever oppressed because as far as I can tell it was 25% back luck and 75% bad decisions that led to Jin being the way he is now. The pro heroes didn't throw him to the wolves, he jumped into the wolf den of his own accord.

and it's not like he's completely wrong about heroes.


Which part is he right about?
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#12 YoWid

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 10:37 AM

Am I the only one who feels like Hori did Redestro dirty

 

Indeed, the prosthetic leg break is just... pathetic.

 

I mean, that just cemented further his portrayal as a crutch character, or simply a stepping stone for Tokoyami's power-up showcase.

 


Because of the fact that he was one-shotted by Tokoyami? Hard to believe that Re-Destro was the one giving Shiggy a hard time earlier.

 

The fact that he gave Shigaraki a hard time only make everything worse, imo, it's like Horikoshi lost interest in him midway to his writing, like, "Eh whatever, get lost, old chap, it's time for the upstarts to rise and shine."

 

.

.

.

 

Hawks must die.

 

The death flag is too strong, if let's say he made it out alive yet crippled it'd only cheapen greatly the bittersweet tragedy of Toko wanting his newfound feats to be acknowledged by his mentor.


 


He's clearly a mentally ill person, and it's not like he's completely wrong about heroes.

 

 

Which part is he right about?

 

 

What makes a hero a hero and a villain a villain?

 

It's all about their allegiances.

 

One stick to the more lawful side; doing general do-gooder deeds and upholding what is deemed by society as morally acceptable and conforming to the rules and mores of a civilized society.

 

One, on the other hand, goes with the more chaotic side; doing whatever necessary to reach their end, fulfilling their own darkest desires, liberating themselves from the confines and restrictions imposed upon them by the aforementioned society to shape their own destiny, however twisted (and anarchic, at times). 

 

They are two sides of a coin.

 

In reality, it's, of course, much more acceptable (and viable) in the long run to side with the heroes, but it's hard to deny how tempting (and even inspiring) it is to fall to the dark side and becoming a villain, simply to be able to preserve one's personal freedom to say "fuck you" to the trappings of society and the pressure of (most) people's judgments (just like how Twice simply wanted to protect Toga and his close ones among the villains because he feel belongs with them.)


 


I on the other hand wish Hawks to die, I just don't like him. I'm not sure why I don't like him though.

 

...and this is why I feel the same, his allegiance is unclear, and it disorients me, how he at the same time sympathetic to the cause of the heroes, while also abetting and acknowledging how the villains, or at least Twice, to be too pure for this world.

 

He's the avatar for the general readers, that is, humans, with both tendencies of good and evil within themselves, battling the forever war, switching sides whenever deemed necessary (or convenient) to do so.

 

.

.

.

 

I found his complexity as a character is well-written, but I still feel somewhat nauseous regarding his personality, maybe because it hits too closer to home--which marks such good writing of his character on Hori's part. 


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#13 Kaidou

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 02:26 PM

 

I didn't see a thread for it but I wanted to say that the Heroes Rising movie was absolutely awesome, one of the best movies I've seen in a while anime or otherwise. Every student (aside from Hagakure) was amazing in that movie. Highly recommended for anyone that's a fan of this series.
 

 



This is completely disingenuous. You guys are acting as if Jin was an outcast that was persecuted or discriminated against by hero society for reasons beyond his control. This is a false notion and honestly quite a ridiculous one. Granted I think there are people that can and should take issue with how hero society operates but Jin is not one of those people.

He says "you people aint heroes...you throw us to the wolves, all of us downtrodden folks."
I'm going to go through his backstory and someone tell me at what point he was either oppressed or thrown to the wolves by the heroes because this to me is straight up nonsense.

1. Jin lost his job due to the unlucky circumstance of getting into an accident with an important client of his boss. Now this is without a doubt unfair to Jin and his boss is trash but that incident has nothing to do with heroes at all. Unfortunately people lose their jobs all the time for reasons beyond their control. One of my ex girlfriends lost her job at the airport because of how badly the airlines have been hit during the Coronavirus pandemic, life it isn't always easy.

2. As a result of losing his job he faced economic hardship, this led to starting a life of crime where he became a nationally wanted criminal and a S Rank villain. While he didn't have a choice in being fired everything he did afterwards was his own decision. He could've tried to find another stable job or done anything else but in his own words he wanted to take it easy and crime was to easy way out. The heroes didn't force him into a life of crime he did that himself but obviously once you're a top ranked villain they will try to apprehend you since that's kind of their job.

3. Excessively using his quirk to "live like a King" led to the Clone Wars of which he was to only survivor. While this is truly traumatic it's partially his own fault due to the lifestyle he was living at the time. Regardless of how much blame you place on Jin there's no way hero society can be blamed for what happened at all, they were not involved directly or indirectly in this unfortunate tragedy.

4. As result of his psychological disorder and him looking for a place that he could fit in he joined the League of Villain on Giran's recommendation. Now I want to point out that the league didn't accept him because they're such kind and understanding people but rather because his quirk his really useful. Also there is no evidence that he ever tried to seek help from anyone beyond other villains, especially since he said that he was looking for people that were as crazy as himself.
He rejected society on his own due to his preconceived notions and trust issues without even checking to see whether they would accept him.
I find it impossible to believe that if he had come forward seeking help that nobody in society, hero or otherwise, would try to get him help for his mental illness whether that's through a psychiatrist, quirk counseling, or some other means. Even last chapter Hawks was still willing to give him a chance at redemption once he atoned for his past crimes. That is more than fair seeing as he did join the most notorious villain organization in the country and was already a nationally wanted criminal before that.  
 
At what point in that backstory was he ever oppressed because as far as I can tell it was 25% back luck and 75% bad decisions that led to Jin being the way he is now. The pro heroes didn't throw him to the wolves, he jumped into the wolf den of his own accord.

 



Which part is he right about?

 

 

I didn't say he was on the right tough. Just saying that he has no reason to leave the Villains Group, specially in his mental state that makes him attached to this group. Heroes never helped in anyway so theres no reason for him to change sides since he doesn't have attatchments. Hes a villain, of course never disputed that, never said that heroes are morally wrong overral, just saying the reason hes worknig for the villains and has no reason to change sides. Hes not a abd person deep down, justa person with mental ilness that made the wrong choices.

 

Fine call it disingenuous if you interpretated a small reply like that.


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#14 YoWid

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 02:43 PM


Hes not a abd person deep down, justa person with mental ilness that made the wrong choices.

 

He still can be viewed as a "bad" person, though, if simply for the fact of his being an accomplice to the villains.

 

.

.

.

 

See, what I'm getting at here is the ones who have the final say about what is "bad" or "good" is almost always the society at large--not that it's wrong, if we want to have some semblance of order and stability in life, but, some (read: the "villains") might find it too stifling and/or fettering for their taste.


 


This is completely disingenuous. You guys are acting as if Jin was an outcast that was persecuted or discriminated against by hero society for reasons beyond his control. This is a false notion and honestly quite a ridiculous one. Granted I think there are people that can and should take issue with how hero society operates but Jin is not one of those people.

He says "you people aint heroes...you throw us to the wolves, all of us downtrodden folks."
I'm going to go through his backstory and someone tell me at what point he was either oppressed or thrown to the wolves by the heroes because this to me is straight up nonsense.

1. Jin lost his job due to the unlucky circumstance of getting into an accident with an important client of his boss. Now this is without a doubt unfair to Jin and his boss is trash but that incident has nothing to do with heroes at all. Unfortunately people lose their jobs all the time for reasons beyond their control. One of my ex girlfriends lost her job at the airport because of how badly the airlines have been hit during the Coronavirus pandemic, life it isn't always easy.

2. As a result of losing his job he faced economic hardship, this led to starting a life of crime where he became a nationally wanted criminal and a S Rank villain. While he didn't have a choice in being fired everything he did afterwards was his own decision. He could've tried to find another stable job or done anything else but in his own words he wanted to take it easy and crime was to easy way out. The heroes didn't force him into a life of crime he did that himself but obviously once you're a top ranked villain they will try to apprehend you since that's kind of their job.

3. Excessively using his quirk to "live like a King" led to the Clone Wars of which he was to only survivor. While this is truly traumatic it's partially his own fault due to the lifestyle he was living at the time. Regardless of how much blame you place on Jin there's no way hero society can be blamed for what happened at all, they were not involved directly or indirectly in this unfortunate tragedy.

4. As result of his psychological disorder and him looking for a place that he could fit in he joined the League of Villain on Giran's recommendation. Now I want to point out that the league didn't accept him because they're such kind and understanding people but rather because his quirk his really useful. Also there is no evidence that he ever tried to seek help from anyone beyond other villains, especially since he said that he was looking for people that were as crazy as himself.
He rejected society on his own due to his preconceived notions and trust issues without even checking to see whether they would accept him.
I find it impossible to believe that if he had come forward seeking help that nobody in society, hero or otherwise, would try to get him help for his mental illness whether that's through a psychiatrist, quirk counseling, or some other means. Even last chapter Hawks was still willing to give him a chance at redemption once he atoned for his past crimes. That is more than fair seeing as he did join the most notorious villain organization in the country and was already a nationally wanted criminal before that.  
 
At what point in that backstory was he ever oppressed because as far as I can tell it was 25% back luck and 75% bad decisions that led to Jin being the way he is now. The pro heroes didn't throw him to the wolves, he jumped into the wolf den of his own accord.

 

I postponed commenting on this part of your post simply because i need more time to formulate the proper counterargument for this, so, I'll get back to this detailed argument later after sleep.


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#15 Fallen Angel

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:49 PM

I postponed commenting on this part of your post simply because i need more time to formulate the proper counterargument for this, so, I'll get back to this detailed argument later after sleep.


Don't bother as I plan to make a dedicated discussion thread for this series to talk about character writing, thematic analysis, narrative techniques etc. so I would prefer if you post your response there. Not that chapter discussion threads are bad for those kinds of conversations but they have a metaphorical expiration date in that most people stop caring about anything being said in that thread once a new chapter is out and a new thread is made.
Tokoya made a really detailed character analysis about Bakugo a while back and I intended to respond to it but when the new chapter came out I completely forgot about it because of the new thread. The temporary nature of them makes them not good for more drawn out discussions which are the kind that I like.

I didn't say he was on the right tough. Just saying that he has no reason to leave the Villains Group, specially in his mental state that makes him attached to this group. Heroes never helped in anyway so theres no reason for him to change sides since he doesn't have attatchments. Hes a villain, of course never disputed that, never said that heroes are morally wrong overral, just saying the reason hes worknig for the villains and has no reason to change sides. Hes not a abd person deep down, justa person with mental ilness that made the wrong choices.
Fine call it disingenuous if you interpretated a small reply like that.


Yeah I understood all of that, it's pretty self explanatory why Jin feels the way he does so I don't think anybody is surprised by his reaction (though you could argue it's a tad bit excessive). The disingenuous aspect is intrinsic to Horikoshi's writing of the character your post was just a reflection of that so I probably should have worded that better though my point remains the same regardless.

What makes a hero a hero and a villain a villain?

It's all about their allegiances.


One stick to the more lawful side; doing general do-gooder deeds and upholding what is deemed by society as morally acceptable and conforming to the rules and mores of a civilized society.


One, on the other hand, goes with the more chaotic side; doing whatever necessary to reach their end, fulfilling their own darkest desires, liberating themselves from the confines and restrictions imposed upon them by the aforementioned society to shape their own destiny, however twisted (and anarchic, at times).

They are two sides of a coin.

In reality, it's, of course, much more acceptable (and viable) in the long run to side with the heroes, but it's hard to deny how tempting (and even inspiring) it is to fall to the dark side and becoming a villain, simply to be able to preserve one's personal freedom to say "fuck you" to the trappings of society and the pressure of (most) people's judgments (just like how Twice simply wanted to protect Toga and his close ones among the villains because he feel belongs with them.)


There are some interesting ideas here but I feel the conclusion is not quite right; or rather it seems to miss the mark completely at the very end. But as I said earlier I plan to make a dedicated My Hero thread for conversations like this tomorrow so I'll save my thoughts on this for later.
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#16 Kid Frost

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 10:55 PM

Every student (aside from Hagakure) was amazing in that movie.


Seriously I had to reevaluate how I ranked the entire Class 1-A after this movie...

D5KSnnG.png

Almost everyone ended up in S-tier or higher :lol:
 


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#17 Fallen Angel

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 11:10 PM

Almost everyone ended up in S-tier or higher


Honestly you expect that from the main characters (Midoriya, Bakugo, Shoto) but seeing Sero, Ochaco, Aoyama, Ojiro, etc. get their moments really made the movie for me. Hopefully that happens in this arc as well because the series needs it.
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#18 Brilchan

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 04:10 AM

Sad for Hawks but his death won't be in vain it had to end like that :/ I'm glad that all the Heros got time to shine including pro heroes and class B I think that next arc Shigaracki gonna come and curb stomp everybody so he and Deku won't have any support networks and will have to fight 1 on one.


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#19 Fenrix

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 12:25 PM

Honestly you expect that from the main characters (Midoriya, Bakugo, Shoto) but seeing Sero, Ochaco, Aoyama, Ojiro, etc. get their moments really made the movie for me. Hopefully that happens in this arc as well because the series needs it.

 

Seriously I had to reevaluate how I ranked the entire Class 1-A after this movie...

https://i.imgur.com/D5KSnnG.png...

Almost everyone ended up in S-tier or higher :lol:
 

 

 

Didn't y'all feel like Todoroki was nerfed tho? I personally think he shouldn't have been struggling as much as he did against the chimera villain but other than that, I was totally impressed by all the Class 1A students. This was definitely one of the best mainstream anime movies I've seen in a while. 


Edited by Fenrix, 24 March 2020 - 12:26 PM.





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