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#1 D.Hyuga

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 05:48 PM

No one made this thread yet? :facepalm:

 

Have a fun. :ph34r:

 

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#2 Buster

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 11:55 PM

This is NOT a joke, in my country there are already 17 death cases, 19 healed cases and several other cases under treatmeant.

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#3 gametaka

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 06:05 AM

My country, SIngapore has 2 death and 500 plus people suffered from convid 19.


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#4 Professor

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 08:30 AM

Still think  my country is over reacting to the situation,one of the benefits of living on an island is to prevent situations like this from occurring,if our government was truly concerned they would have restricted travel as soon as possible, yet here we are. We are neither  an international hub or condensed like NYC so I disagree with the alot of of the initiatives put in place.


Edited by Professor, 26 March 2020 - 08:31 AM.


#5 YoWid

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 10:21 AM

From Indonesia here.

 

693 confirmed Covid-19 cases so far, 55 deaths, 30 recoveries.

 

Strict lockdown and physical/social distancing policy by the central govt is being implemented right now.

 

If it means slowing down the pandemic rate and giving the hardworking and life-risking medical workers handling the virus, I'm 120% behind it.

 

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Downsides so far are social isolation from close ones and difficulty sending things in an emergency cases (a friend from my college needs meds (antibiotics to be precise) for her mom to be delivered from the capital (Jakarta) to Lamongan (approximately 400 kilometers/240 miles in distance), and air delivery has been almost blocked due to airport lockdowns, and she's forced to take the land route for delivery of the meds)


 

*giving breathing space/easing the burden of the hardworking and life-risking medical workers by less elderly and immunocompromised victims of the virus for them to handle


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#6 Revenant

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 01:56 PM

Well, Brazil is facing a tough choice here. We were still recovering from our biggest recession yet, and this shit hit us. The president is facing a lot of backlash for being against a prolonged full lockdown, claiming that most people and small to medium business owners simply cant survive such a prolonged period without revenue. Its a very delicate balance we must achieve, because the death toll caused by this lockdown might eventually surpass the disease`s. 

 

Also theres something to be said about not letting the government set a precedent for measures like lockdowns and curfews. Its only working this time around because people legit believe this is the apocalypse, and the mainstream media is to be blamed for that.


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#7 YoWid

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 04:47 AM


Also theres something to be said about not letting the government set a precedent for measures like lockdowns and curfews. Its only working this time around because people legit believe this is the apocalypse, and the mainstream media is to be blamed for that.

 

I totally agree on not letting the government abuse the privilege they got simply because this is, factually, an emergency situation.

 

I, however, think that we don't necessarily need MSM to fan the flames regarding this situation.

 

At first, I thought the lockdown and physical/social distancing stuff is something ripped straight out of the Big Brother playbook, but, as time progresses, and many medical workers are down daily (either through overexertion or contracted the virus--or both), and the elderly and those with weak immune systems are proven prone to contract the virus, I believe drastic measure needs to be taken, if only this once.

 

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Problem is, "only this once" does not seem to be too good a prospect for the powers that be, especially given that they see how the authoritarian and iron-hand approaches taken by China arguably works in handling and containing coronavirus to date (that 10-day done special hospital of theirs is, like it or not, kinda impressive.)  


 


Well, Brazil is facing a tough choice here. We were still recovering from our biggest recession yet, and this shit hit us. The president is facing a lot of backlash for being against a prolonged full lockdown, claiming that most people and small to medium business owners simply cant survive such a prolonged period without revenue. Its a very delicate balance we must achieve, because the death toll caused by this lockdown might eventually surpass the disease`s. 

 

This. Great recession is looming around the corner. I mean, this is essentially WW3 (versus the pandemic) minus industrial production boom (the reverse is true, in fact).

 

Will there be life after coronavirus?

 

There will be hope still for as long as we all stay on our toes for what comes next--that is, as you said in SOT, stay frosty.

 

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RIP "hygiene freak" and "OCD handwashing", you'll both no longer be in dictionaries, but I shall remember you. 


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#8 kenkage

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 07:44 AM

I think it's impossible to contain it, the only countries that have succeeded in containing it were China & South Korea (& Taiwan if I'm not mistaken) , through either masive testing or masive lockdowns or a combination of both, however most of the world simply doesn't have the ability to replicate the Korean or Chinese model, such as building a brand new hospital in ten days or mobilizing the entire nation to produce medical goods..not every one has the industrial capacity of China, & China itself cannot satisfy the needs of all other countries.
at this point I would say the only hope is the heat.

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#9 Abaroxa

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 09:03 AM

I like the conspiracies about it.

Like it was a weapon for cleansing that got out of control and that it was caused by 5G.

 

They are also saying China is lying about their numbers as most countries are getting to 50k cases under a month and china did it in 2 months.



#10 kenkage

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 09:47 AM

I like the conspiracies about it.
Like it was a weapon for cleansing that got out of control and that it was caused by 5G.
 
They are also saying China is lying about their numbers as most countries are getting to 50k cases under a month and china did it in 2 months.


there are all kinds of conspiracy theories, some say it escaped from a bio weapons lab in Wuhan, others (especially at the beginning) said that it was a Bio attack from the US on China for economic reasons, some say the reason why it's spreading like this is because whenever a country is infected it's military assumes that what happened was biowarfare from a rival even if it isn't so say for example if Iran get's infected they would send infected people to KSA/Israel etc...
personaly I believe in non of those theories, I believe what happened was pure coincidance.

regarding the numbers, frankly I trust in China's statistics the most simply because they tested more people than any other country by far (they test one million people per day) , & it's really impossible to hide the numbers, take what happened with Dr. Li Wenliang for example, when they silenced him at the beginning of 2020 for the sake of not harming the image of the rulers the news about the disease still leaked, if they can't even properly silence that single doctor then there is no way they could silence dozens of thousands of doctors who are testing the people.

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#11 Abaroxa

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 11:00 AM

there are all kinds of conspiracy theories, some say it escaped from a bio weapons lab in Wuhan, others (especially at the beginning) said that it was a Bio attack from the US on China for economic reasons, some say the reason why it's spreading like this is because whenever a country is infected it's military assumes that what happened was biowarfare from a rival even if it isn't so say for example if Iran get's infected they would send infected people to KSA/Israel etc...
personaly I believe in non of those theories, I believe what happened was pure coincidance.

regarding the numbers, frankly I trust in China's statistics the most simply because they tested more people than any other country by far (they test one million people per day) , & it's really impossible to hide the numbers, take what happened with Dr. Li Wenliang for example, when they silenced him at the beginning of 2020 for the sake of not harming the image of the rulers the news about the disease still leaked, if they can't even properly silence that single doctor then there is no way they could silence dozens of thousands of doctors who are testing the people.

 

But the doctor is now long dead...



#12 kenkage

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 02:43 AM

But the doctor is now long dead...


and that's the point, they couldn't even prevent the information from leaking from that one single dying doctor, that's why I say it's impossible for them to control the information & leaks that comes out of dozens or humdreds of thousands of doctors who are doing the testing.

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#13 Revenant

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 03:48 AM

regarding the numbers, frankly I trust in China's statistics the most simply because they tested more people than any other country by far (they test one million people per day) , & it's really impossible to hide the numbers, take what happened with Dr. Li Wenliang for example, when they silenced him at the beginning of 2020 for the sake of not harming the image of the rulers the news about the disease still leaked, if they can't even properly silence that single doctor then there is no way they could silence dozens of thousands of doctors who are testing the people.

I don't really think you should trust China at all. Theyve made repeated attempts to drown out the truth, and all sings point to that being the reason shit got so bad everywhere. The CCP is the most guilty party of this whole affair. Thousands of lives were lost and health and economic collapse are a reality around the globe. Trusting them about anything would be unwise. China is ruled by a ruthless dictatorship that has oppressed and censored its own population for decades. Sure a doctor of two might say slip by, but those are exceptions that prove the rule.

There was no terror attack in the world that has claimed so many lives and wrecked the livelihood of countless others. China should be held accountable on crimes against humanity. Yet all I see from the MSM is a bunch of shit about how referring to it as the Chinese virus is racist and the WHO constantly praising China on it's noble efforts and uncompromised cooperation with the world. China should pay dearly.
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#14 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 11:27 AM

I think it's unproductive to blame China for the failings of your own government. Not to mention the necessary ignorance of the effects of colonialism, imperialism, and capitalism purely to deliver hyperbolic condemnations and whitewash history that is not even two months old. After a certain point countries have to take responsibility (and that includes China themselves). Obviously, China has committed many human rights violations in addition and they deserved to be strongly condemned for that but to paint them as if they were Freeza and everyone else is Goku is a joke.

 

Xenophobia at best and ignorant racism at worst.

 

Everyone outside of China had a couple months of notice and the West has overwhelmingly failed to protect their citizens. With at least one American senator committing insider trading, New York refusing to shut down and ramp up testing, UK attempted herd immunity, and Japan continued to downplay infection numbers and rates (likely in order to keep the Olympics but this is my hypothesis). Not to mention citizens and professionals failing to socially distance for some notion of "preserving the economy". I'm sorry, but governments continually sacrificing their citizens in order to maintain establishment wealth do not get a free pass just because China has monumentally fucked things up. This goes double for the re-branding of essential workers as "heroes" instead of "sacrifices" -- because I know almost zero of these workers who actually want to endanger their lives in order to deliver you a burger.


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#15 Revenant

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 01:20 PM


I think it's unproductive to blame China for the failings of your own government

Im blaming China for being a bloody dictatorship that made the choice of trying to silence its citizens and press instead of reporting the issue to the rest of the world in an honest manner.

 


Not to mention the necessary ignorance of the effects of colonialism, imperialism, and capitalism purely to deliver hyperbolic condemnations and whitewash history that is not even two months old.

Im not even gonna ask.

 


Obviously, China has committed many human rights violations in addition and they deserved to be strongly condemned for that but to paint them as if they were Freeza and everyone else is Goku is a joke.

 

Xenophobia at best and ignorant racism at worst.

Maybe you should right for buzzfeed or something. This self righteous rhetoric overflowing with strawmans and virtue signaling might not be very popular with people that are sick of afraid to get sick. 

 


Everyone outside of China had a couple months of notice

Not true at all. That would imply that China was truthful about the virus or its spread. Instead, human-to-human transmission was only found out in late January, way late into the game. By then, this highly contagious virus had what, 3 months to spread? Not to say that even when we finally knew enough about it the west did everything right. Was there incompetence? Yes. But youre expecting too much if you wanted countries to have made full lockdowns and quarantined its population in response to a threat they didnt even know the full extent of. The same cant be said for the Chinese authorities, who not only knew how bad the virus was, but actively tried to silence citizens who tried to get the word out. Its not racist to infer from that information that China is the number one reason for why things got so bad. 

 


at least one American senator committing insider trading

"At least one senator" hardly represents the government response. 

 


Japan continued to downplay infection numbers and rates

Why is that the one point that isnt sourced? 

 


I'm sorry, but governments continually sacrificing their citizens in order to maintain establishment wealth

The words of someone who doesnt know that some people cant afford to not work for months. 

 


because I know almost zero of these workers who actually want to endanger their lives in order to deliver you a burger.

I also know that not working for months would endanger their lives nonetheless. Not everyone has a nice safety net they can fall on. There are a lot of people that do want to work, though. Especially in poorer countries and communities. 



#16 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 06:27 PM

Im blaming China for being a bloody dictatorship that made the choice of trying to silence its citizens and press instead of reporting the issue to the rest of the world in an honest manner.

As opposed to other countries suppressing numbers by purposefully not testing citizens despite calls from the medical community? Not closing borders as suggested and when suggested? Alright. We had more than enough notice.
 
Also pretending that China is the only country to suppress whistleblowers is ahistorical at best and lying at worst.

Im not even gonna ask.

"Genocide is only bad when a non-Western country does it"?
 

That would imply that China was truthful about the virus or its spread. Instead, human-to-human transmission was only found out in late January, way late into the game

I was taking into account January, yes. By when did North America declare states of emergencies? Shelter in place? As late as March 2nd we still had Cuomo and Trump deny that COVID 19 was a serious issue. Not to mention 
 

"At least one senator" hardly represents the government response.

From the article you did not read:

> March 2

> Cuomo announced that the Wadsworth Center, a public health laboratory within the State Department of Health in Albany, was partnering with hospitals to expand testing capacity to 1,000 tests per day.
> The governor also said a new cleaning protocol was being introduced in schools and for public transportation to help contain any spread.
> The same day, Trump criticized Democrats, saying "they are fearmongering" and had criticized him when he "closed the country down to China many weeks ahead of what almost everyone recommended."
> Trump's travel restrictions to and from China went into effect on Feb. 2. They were not a ban.

 And a supporting article:

> In late January, when a CNBC reporter asked if there were “worries about a pandemic” spreading from China, where it was first reported in December, [Trump] replied, “No, not at all. We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”

 

So, no. There was ample time to do something and the American government failed to do so. Get at your representatives instead of inciting hatred and xenophobia.


Why is that the one point that isnt sourced?

Because I explicitly qualified it as an opinion. Japan not testing/delaying COVID19 countermeasures is common knowledge -- the reason behind why is opinion.
 

The words of someone who doesnt know that some people cant afford to not work for months.

Yet we're already at the place where people are unable to work for months. Many countries are discussing plans where they bail out the workers (and corporations :rolleyes:) so there is work to be done to help those people. Imagine thinking like "debt" is more dangerous than a physical disease. 
 

I also know that not working for months would endanger their lives nonetheless. Not everyone has a nice safety net they can fall on. There are a lot of people that do want to work, though. Especially in poorer countries and communities.

Uncharitable interpretation given you already know why there are "people that do want to work". In your own words: "I also know that not working for months would endanger their lives nonetheless". Therefore the risk calculus being made is: am I more likely to die from COVID 19 or become homeless.
 
In America, specifically, these vulnerable class of peoples are being oppressed by their governments impotent response to the pandemic and lack of foresight with respect to funding infrastructure and healthcare. Worse, America has been continually cutting funding.



#17 Tom Ace

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 11:52 PM

So, no. There was ample time to do something and the American government failed to do so. Get at your representatives instead of inciting hatred and xenophobia.

 

Isn't @Revenant from Brazil? I think it will be a bit difficult for him contact his US representative.



#18 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 09 April 2020 - 12:03 AM

Isn't @Revenant from Brazil? I think it will be a bit difficult for him contact his US representative.

Fair enough. I saw the xenophobia and assumed but that was ethnocentric of me. I don't think I need to pull up any articles to show just how poorly Brazil is handling the corona virus, corruption within their government, and/or Bolsonero being a bad leader. That's just free.



#19 Revenant

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Posted 09 April 2020 - 05:16 AM

You dont know the first thing about Brazil, buddy. You might think you do because youve read a few articles and feel informed about whats going on in the whole world. You come in here telling me that im a racist and shit for holding a political party accountable for their shit and your only defense is to tell me that the west has done similar things. All for virtue signaling and brownie points. I know Im not racist or xenophobic and theres no articles in the world that'll prove otherwise. I also know youre probably been on this little crusade against racism for some time, given that you had such a nice response ready. 

 

Nothing youve posted makes me feel any differently about Chinas fault in this. Maybe youve been studying about the acts the west commited in the past, yet the one trying to shift blame for a government just as malicious. But you have it all figured out, dont you? You know just the right amount of blame everyone has, and you also know the full realities of all the countries that were hit by this, before and during. You call me a racist but I can see your superiority complex very well. 

 

Im just gonna comment on this point, because your entire argument hinges on it:

 


Imagine thinking like "debt" is more dangerous than a physical disease. 

Maybe for a rich country like Canada, solving the economic crisis that lockdowns and other crippling measures is as simple as signing a paycheck. However, other countries, like Brazil, for example, are not so prosperous. We're not talking about debt here, we're talking about starvation, empty supply lines, and mass unemployment. Its not sustainable for us as it is for you. You expect the whole wide world to respond exactly alike, yet the only leniency you give is to the Chinese because muh racism. Youre the picture perfect image of first world know it all arrogance. 



#20 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 09 April 2020 - 07:23 PM

You dont know the first thing about Brazil, buddy. You might think you do because youve read a few articles and feel informed about whats going on in the whole world.

I agree, I do not know that much about Brazil outside of information from various media sources.

come in here telling me that im a racist and shit for holding a political party accountable for their shit and your only defense is to tell me that the west has done similar things.

No, I called out xenophobia and racism because you were exclusively targeting China. To quote:

There was no terror attack in the world that has claimed so many lives and wrecked the livelihood of countless others. China should be held accountable on crimes against humanity.

That is simply false.

I also know youre probably been on this little crusade against racism for some time, given that you had such a nice response ready.

I have been against racism for a long time, yes? But I constructed that article just for you as nobody in my vicinity has called out China as a supervillain in all of this.
 

Maybe youve been studying about the acts the west commited in the past, yet the one trying to shift blame for a government just as malicious.

No, I did not. In fact I said:

Obviously, China has committed many human rights violations in addition and they deserved to be strongly condemned for that

I'm sorry, but governments continually sacrificing their citizens in order to maintain establishment wealth do not get a free pass just because China has monumentally fucked things up.

I can also add, even more explicitly here, that I disagree with how China has handled this crisis along with their general humanitarian violations. Does that help you understand my stance?

You call me a racist but I can see your superiority complex very well.

That is a miscommunication. I called your argument racist. I made no judgement on your character (as I do not know you).

Im just gonna comment on this point, because your entire argument hinges on it:

My argument does not hinge on that at all. That was more a side remark that reflects my opinion on economics and capitalist thought. While I think we can have a sub-argument discussing the merits of prioritizing "the economy" over physical well-being, that is not central to my point at all. Central to my point is that many governments failed to respond to COVID-19 despite having ample warning. I am most familiar with the American one but I am also tangentially aware of the UK's lack of measures. 
 
I'm always up for discussing modern monetary theory and my opinions on what I believe to be the gun-to-head economic violence of capitalism, but that's separate from the point being made in this thread.

 

The point being made in this thread is that exclusive blame to China is unwarranted and that the tone of the criticism felt xenophobic and racist because other governments deserve equal blame. The point being made is that you can hold the following points simultaneously:

  1. China deserves a large amount of blame for their initial reaction to the virus
  2. America, UK, and other countries who downplayed the impact deserve a large amount of the blame
  3. COVID-19, regardless of China's share of the blame, is nowhere near as devastating as the variety of atrocities nations have committed in the recent past





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