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One Piece Chapter 980 Discussion


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#41 Scorpion2k4u

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Posted 26 May 2020 - 01:15 PM

U forget that Sanji also evaded an attack by Katakuri, which was already a future sight induced countermeasure, so i dont believe ordinary haki could have helped here.

I in generel agree with the haki depletion and the needed focussing on it. However i also predict that u can just learn to be so adapt in it that it becomes a permanent skill with the right mastery of it. Just like a DF works permantly i think haki could become that too.

Moreover i suspect that the different haki types deplete different amounts of ur overall haki, meaning that i.e. FS sight depletes far more CoO than the normal one, and that "normal" CoC depletes more than "normal" CoO.

I also agree with u that even when u forsee something, u still need to means to actually counter/evade it.

 
There is one thing u completely disregard in the kind of training in CoO Luffy and Sanji received during TS. While Ray-san trained Luffy, by hitting him, when Luffy had something on to blind his vision, Sanji constantly had to run, the entire island was his "enemy", i truly doubt that Iva did not see to it, that Sanji would get more proficient in CoO, by forcing him to learn to constantly know about his surroundings and to learn to use it even when sleeping. Otherwise Sanji would have gotten what he disliked the most, getting harrassed/cuddled by man/okama. On all the flashbacks of Sanji we saw (except those that came before Sanji agreed to Ivas proposition), Sanji was running.

I doubt Oda would say this or that character specialises in something without there being anything real special behind it. I have said this numerous times. I bet that Zoro having specialised in CoA equals him having advanced CoA (the one Luffy just learned at Udon). I see absolutely no reason for Oda to to give each of the M3 a certain colour of haki without there truly being anything special in each one usage of it. If Sanji "specialises" in CoO and all that Sanji can do turns out to be the "basics" Ray-sama taught Luffy during the TS, then thats a real letdown imo.

Moreover we already know that there is something special about Sanjis and Zoros CoO. Sanji felt Tashigis tear (just an example there r others with Sanji as well iirc), while Zoro felt Vergos beastly/ vicious/ murderous aura. Therefore it is pretty safe to assume that there is a difference in what CoO makes u able to "feel"/get as information, depending on how proficient u r and mayhaps even what kind of character u urself r. Moreover, while we have NEVER seen this with anyone else among the SHs (afair) Zoro was already able to feel his swords, (thus things which r not the product of some emotion, like tears) during Alabasta.


Knowing that Oda almost purly focuses on Luffy Luffy is the one that will in the end ve most advanced in ervery aspect.

Zoro at least displayed sth like haki in his fight vs mr.2.

Reileigh said that it takes 1,5 years to get the basics of haki. Luffy was faster the expected but then again Luffy is special. More so then Zoro or Sanji.

The training that Luffy had was propably the best he could go under seeing that Raileigh is his teacher who himself is a legend himself. Also it was not just Rayleigh training him, Luffy had to fight all those animals many of who where stronger the him at the beginning.

In the the end Oda just gave everyone of the moster trio one haki type since coincidentally there are three that you can tend towards.

But we dont know what this tendence relay means. As I see it, Luffy will be superior in all three since he undergoes the most difficult battles.

What did Sanji realy has to do after the timeskip? He never displayed anything that would suggest that he can use haki as every other haki user too. Zoro is the same. Only Luffy is shown and prooven to have advanced CoO since the fight with Katguri and CoA since his training in Udon.

Everything else is speculation with no real evidenece.

I mean one could even argue that Ussop has a special sort of CoO.and Coby for ahure has a strong and special CoO.

But Sanji and Zor are not diffrent to anyone else.

With Zoro we at least know that his CoA is stronger then that of pica. With Sanji we know that his CoA is weaker then that of Vergo.

What ever that means. Oda could have had many chances to hint at Sanji having anything near an advanced CoO (for example as he was waiting for Luffy to come out of the mirror) but I dont see it. As fo Sanji and Zoro having diffrent CoO attributes is nothing special. CoO was alwas portrayed that way. They all in some way focus on feelings. Sanji on the feeling of women. Luffy on feelings in general. Coby's CoO is realy adanced in that regard. Fuji also knows the feeling of others. Zoro might focus also on alcohol. Ussop uses it for sniping related stuff.

 

But nothing Sanji or Zoro showed was special in the NW. What Zoro displayed vs Mr. 2 was something like CoO. He has a strong bond with his swords. But that might not even have been CoO. As he learned to cut Mr.2. that felt a bit like an advanced CoA but it could also be sth besides haki that swordmen can use. It was never relay explained therfore pure speculation.


Edited by Scorpion2k4u, 26 May 2020 - 01:35 PM.

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#42 Madara D Dragon

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 06:39 AM

I'm not sure they can be. Before Luffy got blown up, they were focused on him and they knew he was about to do something. Both of them have CoO and Luffy's is advanced enough that he has future sight. If that failed them, then it's possible that Apoo's songs directly effect his targets. In that case, there would be nothing (like a slicing wave) travelling between Apoo and his enemy. You just get cut as long as you hear the song (or whatever the condition for his powers to work is).

That is how I understood it too. In fact, Zoro's comment leads towards that imo.

Someone in another forum mentioned that Zoro's cut is very similar to the one he got from Mihawk, which could obviously and most likely just be a coincidence. But it could also bee that Apoo's powers work on previously experienced wounds. Something like the sound reminding the body of a specific wound and repeating it. I thought it would be a cool idea.
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#43 capu

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 08:42 AM


Knowing that Oda almost purly focuses on Luffy Luffy is the one that will in the end ve most advanced in ervery aspect.

Certainly not! See below

 


In the the end Oda just gave everyone of the moster trio one haki type since coincidentally there are three that you can tend towards.

That is ur assumption, not a fact. So according to u Oda choose the specific colour of haki for each SH by what? on a whim? 

And by the way it is wrong anywho, since we also know that Sanji and Zoro also can use at least 2 haki types so far, not only one. Luffy can use all 3. So he actually gave them more than 1 colour, he simply said they specify/ ergo "mastered" (at least to a point) one. That is also why CoO is not used always by Luffy, while we dont know a single time since TS (except for i.e. Zoro -- Sanji dispute) Sanji was surprised by an physical (not DF related) attack, without even knowing about it!

 


But we dont know what this tendence relay means. As I see it, Luffy will be superior in all three since he undergoes the most difficult battles.

Again only ur way of seeing things.

Not that i claim u r wrong here, still points dont lead in ur direction if u ask me.

 


What did Sanji realy has to do after the timeskip? He never displayed anything that would suggest that he can use haki as every other haki user too. Zoro is the same. Only Luffy is shown and prooven to have advanced CoO since the fight with Katguri and CoA since his training in Udon.

Sadly not much. And what do u mean with display haki as every other haki user can?

However u disregard the FACT that Sanji could counter the FS sight induced countermeasure from Kata, WITHOUT having have to train his CoO during a fight vs Kata beforehand, UNLIKE LUFFY. That is a clear 1:0 for me here.

Only Luffy was focussed so far... the others had 0 chance to show off what they are capable of, and more importantly they did not have the same challanges in order to improve. Simply cause Luffys CoA and CoO sucked before and he had the chance to further train them during his fights since TS does not mean, and i mean in NO WAY mean Zoros CoA had to suck as well or Sanjis CoO had to suck.

 


I mean one could even argue that Ussop has a special sort of CoO.and Coby for ahure has a strong and special CoO.

Usoopp "simply" uses it completely different from the others, he actually uses it like Fuji (not talking about the emotions here) with him being able to see the auras of people. And i dont see anything special at Koby's usage of it. He uses it like most CoO users are able to use it, thus not special at all imo.... neither is his range better than others. We know Vergo could be sensed for quite some distance as well from Sanji and Zoro and unlike with Coby they had to penetrate thick walls (which assumably might be harder to feel through than i.e. air or water is) but they still felt Vergo.

Simply because fodder character Helmeppo is astonished =/= it being a real feat. We all know how those 2 where dealt with at water 7.

 


But Sanji and Zor are not diffrent to anyone else.

just lol at that!

Coby was NEVER seen to feel objects.... neither was he ever hinted to have FS CoO. Nor seems CoA in generel be part of his skillset. So how come Coby is special in ur eyes when he can do less or just as much as the others? I dont get ur reasoning at all here, i am under the impression i have to misunderstand u otherwise it makes no sense what ur trying to say.

 


What ever that means. Oda could have had many chances to hint at Sanji having anything near an advanced CoO (for example as he was waiting for Luffy to come out of the mirror) but I dont see it.

Mirror world is an entire dimension, which aint even linked to the real world, except by the mirrors which can only be opened by Brulees power, otherwise are completely closed off. What the heck r u comparing here`?

I dont expect Fuji to be able to sense into a different dimension  either. Or anyone else in the entire op world for that matter.

 


As fo Sanji and Zoro having diffrent CoO attributes is nothing special. CoO was alwas portrayed that way.

Strange and yet u try to highlight Cobys "feat".

 


As fo Sanji and Zoro having diffrent CoO attributes is nothing special. CoO was alwas portrayed that way. They all in some way focus on feelings.

Questionable a sword (although it seems to have a will) has no real feelings like humans do (at least not to that extent), thus Zoro >>>> Anyone else? What u mean to present here? again i must misunderstand u, i really dont get ur causality here.

 


Sanji on the feeling of women. Luffy on feelings in general. Coby's CoO is realy adanced in that regard

How is it advanced if it does less or just as much as what the others can do with it?

 


Zoro might focus also on alcohol.

So once mroe u contradict urself. If Zoro despite being able to feel feelings, he also can sense alcohol (and his swords, thus inanimate objects) than he should be superior to Coby, since the latter simply cant do that.

BTW i dont claim Zoro CoO>Cobys CoO, but i am certain that Sanji and Luffys CoO>>Cobys.

 


But nothing Sanji or Zoro showed was special in the NW.

Mostly becaue they did not get the chance to dont u think?

 


He has a strong bond with his swords. But that might not even have been CoO. As he learned to cut Mr.2. that felt a bit like an advanced CoA but it could also be sth besides haki that swordmen can use. It was never relay explained therfore pure speculation.

Ye it is made clear that what the swordsman use to cut things actually is haki, since Ryo= part of haki. As explained to us at the country of swordsman called Wano.


Edited by capu, 27 May 2020 - 08:59 AM.


#44 Strobacaxi

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 09:47 AM


What Zoro displayed vs Mr. 2 was something like CoO. He has a strong bond with his swords. But that might not even have been CoO. As he learned to cut Mr.2. that felt a bit like an advanced CoA but it could also be sth besides haki that swordmen can use. It was never relay explained therfore pure speculation.

 

It's literally how Hyo explain advanced CoA to Luffy. 

 

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#45 masterbio

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 05:55 PM

That is how I understood it too. In fact, Zoro's comment leads towards that imo.

Someone in another forum mentioned that Zoro's cut is very similar to the one he got from Mihawk, which could obviously and most likely just be a coincidence. But it could also bee that Apoo's powers work on previously experienced wounds. Something like the sound reminding the body of a specific wound and repeating it. I thought it would be a cool idea.

Really cool idea! But also perhaps too OP no? Apoo could make Zoro suffer again all Luffy's pain that Kuma gave him, for example, and that's pretty hard



#46 capu

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Posted Yesterday, 03:43 AM

Well imo while there are many things that were good in the last chapter and the past chapters, like the funny moments between Luffy, Zoro, Kidd reactions, Jinbei joining, the battle finally being at hand (in this overall pretty boring arc, thats a huge upside), it still bothers me that i dont see any way that the current alliance poses ANY real thread to the yonkou alliance. I mean can anyone explain to me, why Oda choose not to decrease Kaidou/Orochi forces beforehand? I mean let a few armies be defeated at the hands of the SHs or anyone else, like attacking Orochis fleet when he was on his way to Onigashima, in order to weaken Kaidous overall power at Onigashima, that could have empowered certain SHs as well. Curretnly (since even Wano Luffy was fodder to Kaidou), no SH (except Luffy) should even be close to defeating the top1 or top2 commanders and we got at least 3 of those present at Wano (King, Queen, Smoothie). Thus its completely stupid for Oda to choose to let pretty much post TS Shs who had no room to grow (again unlike Luffy with his several battles) fight at a stage at which they are obviously not.

 

Really Oda imo did a real bad job at this Wano arc. He could have made it a battle as several stages (like at Flower capital, Sanji, Zoro +crew fighting Orochi and his forces there defeating them, freeing Wanos main land (and of course getting the inhabitants so safety afterwards)), instead Kaidous forces are just still immensly beyond that which the SHs have garthered, noone can tell me that the ordinary Samurai is just that much stronger than the ordinary gifter to overcome the numbers game, which vastly are / act in on Kaidous side/favor.      

 

And the yonkous as individuals seem still vastly superior to anyone of the current alliance so why the heck did Oda choose not to strenghten ANY SH before the battle truly starts at Onigashima? 

 

For me this all leads to a stupid move Oda choose during his entire story, plot Armor, this time just on an even bigger scale. I really think he is gonna make this arc even worse than it already has been for me, by just focussing on Luffy and leaving all other Shs aside again and by giving Luffy retarded plot armor again...... Man this all really downgrades my liking for this arc big time, and it was pretty low already.... 


Edited by capu, Yesterday, 03:49 AM.





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