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[Group] Original Gotei 13


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#1 Morek

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:15 PM

1050675_original.png

 

Known:

 

1.  Genryu-sai Shigekuni Yamamoto (Confirmed) -- Dead

2. 

3. 

4. 

5. 

6. 

7. 

8. 

9.  

10.

11.  Yachiru Retsu Unohana (First Kenpachi) -- Dead

12.

13.

 

Since this topic does not exsist yet who are the originals?

We know for a fact that Genryu-sai Shigekuni Yamamoto is one.

 

I would also think it might have included the following.

 

The Soul King (if he is real)

 

And the 5 royal guards, since it is apparent that they seem to be the invetors of alot of things that are currently mainstream in SS

 

And the original heads of the 4 Noble houses, and the Shiba Clan.

 

That would be my best guess for the 13, I don't think we will actually see any of them but since we have been provided with a shadow of them, it is still a possibility.

 

What are your thoughts and theories?

 


Edited by Morek, 24 March 2014 - 02:24 PM.

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#2 Peleihno

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:18 PM

Not sure this deserves its' own thread. I do hope all original captains are revealed though. 

 

Except, why did you put the Soul King there? That doesn't make any sense.


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#3 Haas

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:23 PM

I think in that pic the one to the right of Yama (our right) may be Yakuza Royal Guard. And yeah I'd add Yachiru Unohana as one of them.

 

What would be really cool is if there where quincies in the original gotei 13


Edited by Haas, 13 March 2013 - 05:24 PM.


#4 urie12

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:28 PM

you should add Unohana Yachiru to 11th div spot. She was confirmed by Shunsui to be the first Kenpachi.



#5 Morek

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:35 PM

Not sure this deserves its' own thread. I do hope all original captains are revealed though. 

 

Except, why did you put the Soul King there? That doesn't make any sense.

 

The Reason i would add the soul king in there is that I am not sure that he has been arround all that long, I believe that he may just be the king in the current structure of the worlds.

 

 

you should add Unohana Yachiru to 11th div spot. She was confirmed by Shunsui to be the first Kenpachi.

 

Done


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#6 urie12

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 06:06 PM

This is just speculation on my part.

 

2nd) 1st Head of Shihoin House

3rd) Unknown Great noble house. TBTP unknown captain retired. Could possible be a noble

4th) Kirinji since he is a healer

5th)

6th) 1st head of Kuchiki House

7th)

8th) Nimaiya. Shunsui became captain upon graduating Shinigami academy. Its obviously there was a vacancy to fill

10th) First Head of Shiba House

9th)

12th) Hikifune. After she got promoted to RG. Shunsui, Ukitake, Unohana and Yama-Ji became the longest from 200 yrs ago.

13) Shutara. Ukitake became captain upon graduating Shinigami academy. Its obviously there was a vacancy to fill



#7 Jesterzzn

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 06:48 PM

This is just speculation on my part.
 
2nd) 1st Head of Shihoin House
3rd) Unknown Great noble house. TBTP unknown captain retired. Could possible be a noble
4th) Kirinji since he is a healer
5th)
6th) 1st head of Kuchiki House
7th)
8th) Nimaiya. Shunsui became captain upon graduating Shinigami academy. Its obviously there was a vacancy to fill
10th) First Head of Shiba House
9th)
12th) Hikifune. After she got promoted to RG. Shunsui, Ukitake, Unohana and Yama-Ji became the longest from 200 yrs ago.
13) Shutara. Ukitake became captain upon graduating Shinigami academy. Its obviously there was a vacancy to fill

No where is it stated that Ukitaki and Shunsui became captain upon their graduations. It only says they are the first graduates of the Academy to attain the rank of captain. A very important distinction.
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#8 Pimpbankai3050

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:38 PM

No where is it stated that Ukitaki and Shunsui became captain upon their graduations. It only says they are the first graduates of the Academy to attain the rank of captain. A very important distinction.

 Especially considering that there is a 1000 year gap (if I'm not mistaken) between the founding of the academy and the founding of the G13

 

We known shunsui and ukitake are most likely very old given the appearance of yamamoto when shunsui was a child, though with the story yamamoto spoke of, it seems to imply that that conversation occured sometime after his initial altercation with Juha Bach(1000 years ago)...For Shunsui to ask about the picture and not understand the context I'd say he'd definitely have to be born within a thousand years.

 

Though 1000+ years of having the academy and not producing any captains from it seem somewhat askew....it could just be that the originial guard's reign lasted that long


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#9 Haas

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:55 PM

Here's a thought, what if Juha was part of those 13 "criminals" and part of the Gotei?


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#10 Milareppa

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:00 PM

Especially considering that there is a 1000 year gap (if I'm not mistaken) between the founding of the academy and the founding of the G13

...
 
Though 1000+ years of having the academy and not producing any captains from it seem somewhat askew....it could just be that the originial guard's reign lasted that long

Given the impression we have of the original Gotei 13, they probably weren't recruited from the academy, especially given Choujirou's opinion on what going through a school of Yamamoto's does for a person (imitation rather than being their own person, Kyouraku at least doesn't seem to be imitating Yamamoto). And whatever system existed before the Gotei 13 is irrelevant in terms of whether any leaders came from Yamamoto's schools, given that it won't be the Gotei 13 we're talking about.

So, there won't be a thousand years before the Gotei 13 gains a captain from Yamamoto's academy.
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#11 Jesterzzn

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:00 PM

Here's a thought, what if Juha was part of those 13 "criminals" and part of the Gotei?

Possible. Bach seemed to have great respect for the old Gotei, but at the same time seemed to consider himself separate from it. It could be that the original Gotei was assembled specifically to deal with Juha. It could be that he and Yama were rivals. If Bach was a part of the original Gotei, I doubt it was long before he set out on his own. His main point to Yama was about the mindset needed to defeat men like them, and that Bach still had it while Yama had lost it. The mindset he was talking about doesn't really suggest Bach ever willingly subordinated himself to anyone.

Edited by Jesterzzn, 13 March 2013 - 08:02 PM.


#12 PlasmaWolf

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:01 PM

Though 1000+ years of having the academy and not producing any captains from it seem somewhat askew....it could just be that the originial guard's reign lasted that long

 

That was the aristocratic order of Soul Society's government prior to Yamamoto establishing the current, meritocratic-based system of the Gotei 13. That's also the main reasoning for why Chojiro was looked-down upon by other members of the Gotei 13 despite hearing accounts about his high level of strength. Chojiro had achieved the Bankai of his Zanpakuto 2,000 years ago, but never once used it in battle until the Vandenreich invaded the first time (and, according to Byakuya, he had not used his Zanpakuto's Bankai in public since the formation of the Gotei 13).

 

In the old days, nobility was likely the leading prerequisite for becoming a Gotei Captain. The Kyoraku, Ukitake, Omaeda, and Kira Families are all Lower Houses in terms of nobility. Thus, it would have been likely during that era for people such as the aforementioned to have received promotions in favor of other, possibly greater-talented candidates (putting aside the fact that Shunsui was probably too inexperienced to become a Captain 1,000 years ago).

 

If I had to guess, the 10th Division Captain whom Shunsui stated had died was Isshin's sibling (Kukaku, Ganju, and Kaien's aunt/uncle), while other members of the Kuchiki, Shihoin and two unnamed Noble Houses accounted for the remaining positions of the newly-founded Gotei 13.


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#13 urie12

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:04 PM

No where is it stated that Ukitaki and Shunsui became captain upon their graduations. It only says they are the first graduates of the Academy to attain the rank of captain. A very important distinction.

I don't see a distinction. first graduates of the Academy to attain the rank of captain is the same as becoming captain upon their graduations



#14 Pimpbankai3050

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:05 PM

Given the impression we have of the original Gotei 13, they probably weren't recruited from the academy, especially given Choujirou's opinion on what going through a school of Yamamoto's does for a person (imitation rather than being their own person, Kyouraku at least doesn't seem to be imitating Yamamoto). And whatever system existed before the Gotei 13 is irrelevant in terms of whether any leaders came from Yamamoto's schools, given that it won't be the Gotei 13 we're talking about.

So, there won't be a thousand years before the Gotei 13 gains a captain from Yamamoto's academy.

 

Haha, as simple as that is, that thought just occured to me. It is definitely more realistic that shunsui and ukitake are the first ones from the academy now that you mention it, because everything before the G13 wasn't the G13.  So simple, I can't even believe I overlooked that


Edited by Pimpbankai3050, 13 March 2013 - 08:08 PM.

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#15 Milareppa

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:15 PM

I don't see a distinction. first graduates of the Academy to attain the rank of captain is the same as becoming captain upon their graduations

 


If a shinigami becomes a captain upon graduation, that means they step out of the academy straight into a captain's seat.

 

However, if a shinigami is the first academy graduate to become a captain, it simply means all captains before him never went through the academy before becoming a captain. It tells us absolutely nothing about the time span between his graduation and him being given a captain's seat. All it means is that he is a captain who, at some point in the past, was taught by, and graduated from, Yamamoto's academy whereas all other captains before him and existing at the point he became captain, have never been through Yamamoto's academy.


Edited by Milareppa, 13 March 2013 - 08:17 PM.

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#16 urie12

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:18 PM

Possible. Bach seemed to have great respect for the old Gotei, but at the same time seemed to consider himself separate from it. It could be that the original Gotei was assembled specifically to deal with Juha. It could be that he and Yama were rivals. If Bach was a part of the original Gotei, I doubt it was long before he set out on his own. His main point to Yama was about the mindset needed to defeat men like them, and that Bach still had it while Yama had lost it. The mindset he was talking about doesn't really suggest Bach ever willingly subordinated himself to anyone.

Its possible that Yhwach was an Original. If he was he probably created a way to use reishi to create his sword as back up to losing your zanpaktu. Like Prometeus he teaches spiritual aware human how to use this technique as way to protect themselves from hollow attack. This may have been frowned upon. He rebels and the first war is started.


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#17 Jesterzzn

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:28 PM

Its possible that Yhwach was an Original. If he was he probably created a way to use reishi to create his sword as back up to losing your zanpaktu. Like Prometeus he teaches spiritual aware human how to use this technique as way to protect themselves from hollow attack. This may have been frowned upon. He rebels and the first war is started.

Man, funny you say that. I did a pretty decent post at the time about Ginjou's multiple connections to Azazel. Azazel was a fallen angel whose sin was teaching humans the art of waging war like the angels. Specifically, he taught them to make angelic weapons and armor. He also took human wives, and began the age of nephilim on earth. As punishment one of the Arch Angels bound him in darkness that would forever prevent him from dwelling in the light.

#18 Saki Kai

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 02:32 AM

This may be the wrong thread for this but, any theories out there as to why the TBTP 13 squads is missing the 10th, 11th, and 13th VCs? 



#19 urie12

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:04 AM

This may be the wrong thread for this but, any theories out there as to why the TBTP 13 squads is missing the 10th, 11th, and 13th VCs? 

good question. I think the obvious answer is that there was no VC chosen for those slots TBTP. Ukitake at the time was trying to get Kaein to be his VC before he eventually agreed to become his VC.


Edited by urie12, 14 March 2013 - 09:05 AM.


#20 Morek

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:40 PM

This may be the wrong thread for this but, any theories out there as to why the TBTP 13 squads is missing the 10th, 11th, and 13th VCs? 

 

The Reason behind this was due to story, the same reason in the TBTP arc why the 10th squad captain was not revealed, or that they were the same as what they are now. As it stand now the following were the VC's;

13th -- Kain Shiba (killed recently and looking to be replaced)

11th -- Most likly Yachiru Kusajishi (not confirmed) -
10th -- Rangiku Matsumoto (Confirmed as of Chapter 529)

 

Captian not revealed at the time was

10th - Issihin Shiba






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