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[Character] Jellal Fernandes


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#41 The Witcher

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:11 PM

So that's what you meant by "city-buster." I was referring specifically to destructive properties in spell comparison.

 

Cerma > Thunder Palace in destructive power. 


Also, pretty much every spell that causes destruction in any shape or form has more destructive power than Fairy Law. Fairy Law is, in that regard, like an Avada Kedavra.

 

Assuming it's as powerful as Shakuma's, yes. But Fairy Law matches or surpasses it in terms of range.

 

And Avada Kedavra's a pretty useful spell. Gets the job done without many fancy lights and sounds and unnecessary collateral damage.  ;)  

 

There is nothing to suggest the bold. You're completely disregarding what Erza said about Fairy Law back in the Phantom Lord arc.

 

Mashima is free to contradict himself whenever he wants, but until he does so, those quotes regarding Fairy Law are very much relevant. 

 

Never mind what Erza said. The commentary in the Fantasia Arc as well as Hades' statement in the Tenrou arc make it clear Fairy Law eliminates those the caster sees as an enemy, right of wrong.

 

No contradiction there. We even saw it validated with Laxus failing because despite his rebellous actions he still cared for Fairy Tail deep down.



#42 Phenomiracle

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:25 PM

Never mind what Erza said. The commentary in the Fantasia Arc as well as Hades' statement in the Tenrou arc make it clear Fairy Law eliminates those the caster sees as an enemy, right of wrong.

 

No contradiction there. We even saw it validated with Laxus failing because despite his rebellous actions he still cared for Fairy Tail deep down.

 

I never pointed out a contradiction, I was simply stating that until Mashima decides to contradict what he's established in regards to Fairy Law, you cannot dismiss Erza's commentary so easily. 

 

I'm simply reconciling both quotes. Believing that an opponent is morally inaccurate and viewing that opponent as an enemy very much go hand-in-hand in all the situations we've seen Fairy Law actually casted and one of which it was prepared for execution. 


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#43 The Witcher

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:36 PM

I never pointed out a contradiction, I was simply stating that until Mashima decides to contradict what he's established in regards to Fairy Law, you cannot dismiss Erza's commentary so easily. 

 

I'm simply reconciling both quotes. Believing that an opponent is morally inaccurate and viewing that opponent as an enemy very much go hand-in-hand in all the situations we've seen Fairy Law actually casted and one of which it was prepared for execution. 

 

Fraid not.

 

Erza was the only one who raised the issue of morals in dialogue with her 'Holy light that punishes evil' speech which is limited by her own knowledge of it.

 

As for the ones actually learning and using it, Hades didn't view Fairy Law as morally wrong. He simply wanted to destroy them because they stood in the way of his plans to awaken Zeref and would have to be destroyed as they would oppose the new world he wanted to create with Zeref. And he sure as hell wasn't punishing evil as Erza claimed. His statement pretty much proves Fairy Law isn't the Holy-righteous-only-works-on-evil sort of spell Erza thought it to be.


Edited by The Witcher, 14 April 2013 - 03:45 PM.


#44 Nmaan

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:41 PM

You got Tail and Law the wrong way round but yaar that's pretty much true.


Feed me and I'll be your friend forever, steal my treats and I make you into meats.

 

I'm big and I'm bad, so try not to make me mad. xD

 

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QT with yours truly

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Number 2

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#45 Phenomiracle

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:43 PM

As for the ones actually learning and using it, Hades didn't view Fairy Law as morally wrong. He simply wanted to destroy them because they stood in the way of his plans to awaken Zeref and would have to be destroyed as they would oppose the new world he wanted to create with Zeref. And he sure as hell wasn't punishing evil as Erza claimed. His statement pretty much proves Fairy Tail isn't the Holy-righteous-only-works-on-evil sort of spell Erza thought it to be.

 

I'm assuming you've accidentally switched Fairy Law and Fairy Tail.
 

The spell Hades was attempting to use on Fairy Tail was Grimoire Lawnot Fairy Law. We have no idea as to the technicalities behind the successful execution of that spell.

 

I presume that was just an honest mistake on your part. 


Edited by Phenomiracle, 14 April 2013 - 03:46 PM.

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#46 The Witcher

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:48 PM

I'm assuming you've accidentally switched Fairy Law and Fairy Tail.
 

The spell Hades was attempting to use on Fairy Tail was Grimoire Lawnot Fairy Law. We have no idea as to the technicalities behind the successful execution of that spell. You're being very liberal with your assumptions. 

Whoopsy.

 

Never mind the spell(Though for all intents and purposes they were the same aside from colour). The STATEMENT he made about FAIRY LAW says that it targets whoever the caster sees as enemies. Nothing about good and evil.

 

Spoiler

Edited by The Witcher, 14 April 2013 - 03:49 PM.


#47 Phenomiracle

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:55 PM

Whoopsy.

 

Never mind the spell(Though for all intents and purposes they were the same aside from colour). The STATEMENT he made about FAIRY LAW says that it targets whoever the caster sees as enemies. Nothing about good and evil.

 

@Bold,

 

How many times are you going to bring that up? I'm not denying that particular criterion. For the last time, I'm arguing that you can't be so incredibly dismissive of what Erza said regarding Fairy Law as you are.

 

Just because someone hasn't mentioned anything regarding Fairy Law's ability to vanquish evil after her doesn't make her initial commentary on it inaccurate in any way. I'm simply reconciling the two known bits of information we were given about Fairy Law.


Edited by Phenomiracle, 14 April 2013 - 03:57 PM.

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#48 The Witcher

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 04:25 PM

@Bold,

 

How many times are you going to bring that up? I'm not denying that particular criterion. For the last time, I'm arguing that you can't be so incredibly dismissive of what Erza said regarding Fairy Law as you are.

 

Just because someone hasn't mentioned anything regarding Fairy Law's ability to vanquish evil after her doesn't make her initial commentary on it inaccurate in any way. I'm simply reconciling the two known bits of information we were given about Fairy Law.

 

There is a contradiction between the two and I'll take Hades' opinion on Fairy Law over Erza's any day. Erza believes it only destroys evil. Hades believes otherwise. We know who's right. It's not like she can never be wrong, and this spell is hardly her area of expertise.


Edited by The Witcher, 14 April 2013 - 04:25 PM.


#49 Phenomiracle

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 04:37 PM

There is a contradiction between the two and I'll take Hades' opinion on Fairy Law over Erza's any day. Erza believes it only destroys evil. Hades believes otherwise. We know who's right. It's not like she can never be wrong, and this spell is hardly her area of expertise.

 

There wasn't any contradiction in what Hades had to say in regards to Fairy Law. Hades acknowledged it as a spell that vanquishes those who the caster considers an enemy. There wasn't anything further to that. 

 

Lack of mention of a previous assertion does not equate to negation of that assertion. Until someone comes along to prove otherwise, Erza's statement still stands. 


Edited by Phenomiracle, 14 April 2013 - 04:38 PM.

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#50 Jeral Fernandes

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 05:41 PM

Except you guys kinda forget that not everything is all black and white and "evil" or "righteous" are subjective depends on view point so yeah, can go either way.

 

Anyway the Fairy Law spell itself is a plot device and this also can go either ways, sometime it makes you feel scream :"OMG haxxxx" and something that very same spell is completely useless. Mashima will probably pop out some lol excuses that make Fairy Law not work on dragons and force them to find another way. 

 

And collateral damage? FT has Ultear on their side at this point, collateral damage means little, we will need as much fire power as possible to fight dragons and Sema will be needed.


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#51 Phenomiracle

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 05:51 PM

Except you guys kinda forget that not everything is all black and white and "evil" or "righteous" are subjective depends on view point so yeah, can go either way.

 

See below, that's exactly what I had suggested, lol. Someone wasn't reading this discussion thoroughly....  ^_^ 

 

Fairy Law was said to "vanquish those filled with evil and malice" and later to work only on those "who the caster sees as their enemy." Taking both quotes into consideration, Fairy Law is implied to work on those who the caster sees as being morally wrong.


Edited by Phenomiracle, 14 April 2013 - 05:52 PM.

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#52 Jeral Fernandes

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 05:56 PM

See below, that's exactly what I had suggested, lol. Someone wasn't reading this discussion thoroughly....  ^_^ 

Ain't no body got the time for that :hurr:.

 

That makes your debate against Witcher become funnier, because viewing someone as being morally wrong is not much different from viewing them as enemies anyway.


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#53 Phenomiracle

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 06:21 PM

Ain't no body got the time for that :hurr:.

 

That makes your debate against Witcher become funnier, because viewing someone as being morally wrong is not much different from viewing them as enemies anyway.

 

Hey, this section needs life, and Witcher is one of the more smarter people to hold a discussion with, regardless of how meaningless it is.

 

Also, it could be different. In this series, it obviously won't, because Fairy Tail will always be morally superior to its enemies.  :hurr:


Edited by Phenomiracle, 14 April 2013 - 07:33 PM.

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#54 Sloth9230

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 07:33 PM

I would just like to point out that Fairy Glitter also mentions something about destroying evil, clearly the MPF wasn't evil, so the incantation is nothing more than pretty words, the same could be true about Erza's description of Fairy Law.

Edit: Or maybe it's just "super effective" against "darkness"


Edited by Sloth9230, 14 April 2013 - 09:23 PM.


#55 Krono

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 07:42 PM

There is a contradiction between the two and I'll take Hades' opinion on Fairy Law over Erza's any day. Erza believes it only destroys evil. Hades believes otherwise. We know who's right.

Yes, Erza and Hades are both right.

Erza's comment: A sacred light takes out darkness. It only affects those the caster sees as enemies.
Gajeel's comment: They say it "takes out everything the caster sees as an enemy"...
Freid's comment: Fairy Law affacts only the people who the caster considers a true enemy.
Hades comment: The great magical spell, that takes down everyone who the caster believes to be an enemy.

All of them talk about it only affecting those the caster sees as enemies. Erza merely prefaces her explanation of it with a basic description (holy light destroys darkness). Erza's statement does not say that it only destroys darkness. Nor do any of the other comments refute this description. They merely agree with her subsequent explanation of it only affecting those the caster sees as enemies.

#56 Jeral Fernandes

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:30 PM

Well it can go both ways really. Right now we have 2 FL users that are Laxus and Makarov, who are both good guys, and thus everyone they consider true enemies are obviously evil, since everything in FT is black and white and FT is always on the right side.

 

Erza's statement could also have a literal meaning, that the darkness she was talking about was Jose's literal darkness power and his shade army.

 

Anyway I wonder if there is a day when Jellal would become a part of the main team and such, yeah wishful thinking, but who knows eh...


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#57 gedyon

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:39 AM

^It would ruin his character. It doesn't have to sure but it will.



#58 Jeral Fernandes

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:03 AM

Yeah, I guess that's the sacrifice trade to get more screen times in this series *cough Laxus cough*.


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#59 Sesshoumaru

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 12:59 PM

Despite anyone using phrases like "it destroys" or "it slays", I think that Fairy Law isn't an instant kill in general, just a really powerful AoE attack.

 

1. Powerful beings could survive it: Jose (Makarov could have also spared him, I am aware)

2. Fairy Glitter maxed out the MPF, meaning that it actually is a destructive power, just an incredible high one - any power has its limits. Fairy Law has to be the same. If it was an instant kill for everyone, it would be superior to Fairy Glitter due to its AoE.

 

I believe that Fairy Glitter is an extremely powerful beam of light energy focused on one target. Fairy Law is the same energy, just used on a wider space, meaning that a single target will suffer less damage than it would with Fairy Glitter.

That might be the reason why Fairy Law won't be useful against dragons. Its destructive power is too low to take down beings several times stronger than Jose.

Another possibility would be that Fairy Law really IS that instant kill everyone thinks it to be and that it has great risks that haven't been mentioned yet. But no matter the risk, Makarov or Laxus would just sacrifice themselves to beat the dragons, so it could still be used.



#60 Phenomiracle

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 05:00 PM

Fairy Law has zero destructive power. 

 

None of the surrounding architecture were visibly further damaged after Makarov had cast Fairy Law in the Phantom Lord arc.


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