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[Discussion] Relationships (Part 9)


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#1 ANewLight

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:07 PM

Continued From Here
 

In_A_New_Light_by_Anime_Junkie16.png

  In A New Light by Anime-Junkie16

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he doesn't deserve her, but I have a feeling that isn't going to stop kishi.  I think Karin is trash anyhow.  they might as well go be trash somewhere together.  maybe their mutant so6p kids will redeem them.

 
 

Actually it says so right on the top of the intro page that this was something he originally wrote 15 years ago. The art however does look more recent. But that's besides the point.



Once again you're missing the point. The point isn't when he did it but rather that he did. It shows that all the crap he's been saying in interviews about not understanding female characters and relationships is just that...crap.

I do agree that the art looks far more recent.

I think you're being near sighted Soul. As I said in my post, I'm not trying to talk about Mario. I'm trying to highlight the fact that Kishi, a person who has been maligned, who many of us have complained and laughed at for his shallow relationships and underutilized female characters, has shown that he has the capability to do more with Naruto.

Many of us have accused him and his writing to be chauvinistic towards women. Yes, Kishi has never had a problem creating strong women. But then he would take them and dumb them down to be nothing more than someone to be saved. Even Tsunade, Anko and others have been reduced to damsels to be saved.

With Mario he showed that he is capable of more and all I'm trying to say is why couldn't he have done that with Naruto? I mean, even NH is a victim of this. What is the greatest complaint about NH even among its strongest supporters? Lack of development. SS has the same problem. In this one shot Kishi showed he had the ability to better develop those relationships to make them feel more organic and real.

And maybe you might not feel that's a problem but that doesn't mean you should ignore the fact that many others (many of whom are supporters of NH & SS) feel differently.


Once again, you're being near-sighted. Relationships in Mario don't affect those in Naruto. That is true. But we're (or at least I am) not talking specifically about the relationships in Mario but rather the writing ability and style of the author who wrote both and how differently one is from the other and why that is so. And last I checked, talking about Kishi's writing style when it comes to relationships and characterizations is something we talk about often in this thread.

 
 

My point however was do you think that he would not have changed a word of his story after 15 years of experience with Naruto? I find it hard to believe an author would find their own work so perfect that they would not have learnt anything or changed their mind on something over that large a period of time. It's completely plausible things changed from the original script/idea he created way back then when he came up with it.
 
It doesn't show the stuff he's been saying in interviews is crap at all. For example, like I said above, things could have changed. Unless somebody shows me an identical script of the story Kishi wrote 15 years ago, it's entirely plausible that his story or way of going about the story has changed since that 15 years ago. IMO, they left that note about being written 15 years ago just to remind us how long Kishi has had this in the works and wanted to get it out. But hey, no use discussing it seriously, we'll never know for sure lol.
 
Also, maybe he just meant he doesn't understand teenage girls and their behaviours? Not just females in general. Which would be completely understandable, who understands teenage girls at all anyway? xD After all, he seemed to handle Tsunade's character a bit better (at least in some ways...).

 
 

who's the hipster that used roman numerals in the thread title?


Oh, it's Liar.. :lmao:

 

Don't count me as among those who have maligned Kishi's treatment of female characters. I don't consider him chauvinistic at all. In his Shonen manga he has chosen to focus on the guys at the top, but he has shown women stepping in to actually defend/save others as well. Heck, Hinata has certainly saved Naruto's butt on more than one occasion, making him as much of a Dude in Distress as she has been a Damsel in Distress. Hinata has shown herself to be one damn strong woman, even early in the story. She has only gotten stronger with time and resolve.

Lack of development? Not really. More a case of plotting problems. Kishi wound up with more manga (and characters) than he had ever planned for. I doubt that he originally thought Naruto would continue for so many years. I think that his intention was always to develop and wrap up his romantic pairings as he wrapped up of the story itself, but part two became stretched out. He then put romance on the back burner while he worked through the main plot to a point where he felt comfortable fitting the romance back in. This is Kishi's first work, after all. He has been learning by doing, so I don't expect perfection. Really, he's done a damn fine job, considering.

Once Kishi got the pairing ball rolling, he has only picked up momentum. Things are now developing quite rapidly, and while some may call it 'ass pull' or unbelievable, I (and many more besides me) think he is doing a darned fine job of combining romantic development with the dramatic development of the main story line.

I believe that Kishi has always had the ability to create strong female characters. I honestly think that Sakura, Hinata, Tsunade, Chiyo and many more of the women of Naruto are just as strong as the female assassin in Mario. And not nearly as damaged and pitiful of a character (not even Tsunade, with all of her issues).


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#2 Sev

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:18 PM

Well, congrats on getting the pic you wanted ANL lol. At least it's better than a NaruSaku opening... marginally... :P
 

And not nearly as damaged and pitiful of a character (not even Tsunade, with all of her issues).


You're calling a woman who was presumably abused by her step-father as a child [before snapping and killing him] which scarred her for life into not trusting men, pitiful?



#3 ANewLight

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:24 PM

I already have a pic for next time:

 

Spoiler

 

xD


Edited by ANewLight, 07 May 2013 - 09:25 PM.

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#4 SoulFire

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:16 PM

Well, congrats on getting the pic you wanted ANL lol. At least it's better than a NaruSaku opening... marginally... :P
 


You're calling a woman who was presumably abused by her step-father as a child [before snapping and killing him] which scarred her for life into not trusting men, pitiful?

Yes. That is a pitiful situation and a sad and damaged person. So she uses big guns to get her revenge on the hated opposite sex. Is that really strength? But enough about Mario. :rolleyes:

 

Love the InoCho pic, btw! :wub:



#5 disastrousmaster

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:30 PM

awesome InoCho pic ANL


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#6 Sev

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:00 PM

Yes. That is a pitiful situation and a sad and damaged person. So she uses big guns to get her revenge on the hated opposite sex. Is that really strength? But enough about Mario. :rolleyes:

 

Of course she's damaged... That shit would mess anyone up. You make it sound like it's all her own fault. She's probably emotionally stunted.

 

Did it actually say anywhere she was in the business specifically for revenge on males? I can't remember exactly, but I don't think it told us how she got into the business... she probably just got taken in by a Mafia family after what happened. And probably continued to have a rough upbringing through that.

 

And ugh, I hate the "what true strength is" talk. At the end of the day, strength is whoever holds the power in a given situation. At least that's the way I view the world, it's not a nice place lol. "The weak die out and the strong will survive" - She has the strength to continue living in a messed up world, so yes she does have strength in at least one aspect.

 

Ok, I'll stop about Mario after this one. :P


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#7 Sauron

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:04 PM

Of course she's damaged... That **** would mess anyone up. You make it sound like it's all her own fault. She's probably emotionally stunted.
 
Did it actually say anywhere she was in the business specifically for revenge on males? I can't remember exactly, but I don't think it told us how she got into the business... she probably just got taken in by a Mafia family after what happened. And probably continued to have a rough upbringing through that.
 
And ugh, I hate the "what true strength is" talk. At the end of the day, strength is whoever holds the power in a given situation. At least that's the way I view the world, it's not a nice place lol. "The weak die out and the strong will survive" - She has the strength to continue living in a messed up world, so yes she does have strength in at least one aspect.
 
Ok, I'll stop about Mario after this one. :P


I'd quit reading Naruto for Mario. Mario just has so much to offer in terms of story and Naruto appears to be dying.

Edited by Sauron, 07 May 2013 - 11:05 PM.

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#8 disastrousmaster

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:07 PM

I'd quit reading Naruto for Mario. Mario just has so much to offer in terms of story and Naruto appears to be dying.

well I for one still want to see how the relationships end up still


                                                    <p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis....personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg></a></p>

“The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.”― Eddard Stark, A game of thrones

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#9 Sauron

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:09 PM

well I for one still want to see how the relationships end up still


Relationships suck. I'm only reading the manga for the powers and abilities and missions and almost everything else but the relationships.

#10 disastrousmaster

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:22 PM

I became bored with naruto's repeat abilities long ago >_> its all about dem relationships for me now


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                                                    <p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis....personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg></a></p>

“The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.”― Eddard Stark, A game of thrones

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#11 jomegar

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:23 PM

Kinda looks like she has three legs.

 

Edit, also, given neither of them are looking at each other, I hestitate to wonder why she is blushing.


Edited by jomegar, 07 May 2013 - 11:24 PM.


#12 disastrousmaster

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:24 PM

Kinda looks like she has three legs.

lolwut? are you talking of the picture >_> because you might want a second look at that. It looks perfectly fine if you think of that draping of clothing being nothing but that



oh wait I see it now lol

its after the knee


                                                    <p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis....personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg></a></p>

“The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.”― Eddard Stark, A game of thrones

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#13 jomegar

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:28 PM

lolwut? are you talking of the picture >_> because you might want a second look at that. It looks perfectly fine if you think of that draping of clothing being nothing but that



oh wait I see it now lol

its after the knee

 

I said kinda, not is, and it is the purple thing. Though now that I look, those legs seem disproportionate compared to each other.... And with the eyes, it is kinda an ugly pic.


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#14 disastrousmaster

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:29 PM

XD why are we judging ANL's group pic?


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“The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.”― Eddard Stark, A game of thrones

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#15 waleuska

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:30 PM

I said kinda, not is, and it is the purple thing. Though now that I look, those legs seem disproportionate compared to each other.... And with the eyes, it is kinda an ugly pic.

THE FACES ARE BAD THE LEGS ARE FINE AND THE HANDS ARE BAD. caps lock was on and to lazy to change it.


p5Y5w8P.jpg


#16 jomegar

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:32 PM

xD why are we judging ANL's group pic?

 

Cause every bad fan-art kills a little bit of a pairing???

 

 

THE FACES ARE BAD THE LEGS ARE FINE AND THE HANDS ARE BAD. caps lock was on and to lazy to change it.

 

Look up at the knee, as dis said, note the size. The hands aren't too bad, not very detailed, look more at the actual arms though......they seem to slope a little..... AND CAPSLOCK IS NOW ON FOR NO GOOD REASON!!!



#17 disastrousmaster

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:37 PM

Cause every bad fan-art kills a little bit of a pairing???

 

 

 

Look up at the knee, as dis said, note the size. The hands aren't too bad, not very detailed, look more at the actual arms though......they seem to slope a little..... AND CAPSLOCK IS NOW ON FOR NO GOOD REASON!!!

>_> even with the what first looked good but now looks atrocious due to your nitpicking, I still like InoCho


                                                    <p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis....personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg></a></p>

“The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.”― Eddard Stark, A game of thrones

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#18 jomegar

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:41 PM

>_> even with the what first looked good but now looks atrocious due to your nitpicking, I still like InoCho

 

I only looked at the third leg, it's you that maded me start looking at the rest and wale spurred it further. Just stop facilitating my observations. Nor was I at InoCho, which is a fairly okay pairing, if not really an in manga existing one.



#19 Phenomiracle

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:41 PM

Choji's right hand is much to thin; it almost lines up with Ino's body. His arms are missing, and Ino's face could clearly have been done better. Both of them are cross-eyed.

Overall, the only thing pretty about the pic is the coloring. My guess is that ANL wanted to be quick about being the one to make a new thread, and ended up with a mediocre thread picture in his haste.

But enough art criticism, I doubt I'm much better (my About Me says it all).

L o y a l t y              |             B l o o d l i n e

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#20 disastrousmaster

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:42 PM

dont you try to tell me whats manga existing yet >_>


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“The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.”― Eddard Stark, A game of thrones

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