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#181 capu

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:00 PM

Just wanted to comment to the "weakness" of BM.

 

Well first thing we know is that Bruleé herself said that Apoo, Kidd, Capone and Urouge all already infiltrated/attacked WCI, still all of them were defeated, with ONLY Urouge being significant enough to be able to defeat 1 commander (http://mangaseeonlin...837-page-8.html)! This essentially actually underlines Bruleé's statement, that the invaders were "swiftly escorted" , as like in saying easily beaten, which in turn means, that the current worst generation is not actually able to back up their fame (http://mangaseeonlin...837-page-9.html), of course the fact of the matter remains, that we dont know, when the others attacked BMs territory, but since Urouge is still wounded, at least he could have fought BM just recently.

As such, while i still think it a bit strange, i can understand why BM "just" send Bruleé to defeat half the SHs (realising this might not do it, send Cracker as back up). The fact that BM send Cracker right away actually screams that she deems the SHs to be a bigger threat then the ones of the worst gen who previously entered! And before u say, wait u r so wrong all of the worst gen fought like hell, here is a manga page that says otherwise (and remember Bruleé already stated "swiftly escorted): http://mangaseeonlin...837-page-9.html notice: "semblance of a fight" that essentially specifically states, that all the former rookies were "fodder" compared to BMs forces, while not even being backed up by a commander and consequently it is not that far fetched when u believe 1 of ur commanders to be able to defeat (remember ONLY half the crew there http://mangaseeonlin...35-page-14.html) the SHs, since 1 commander ordinarily sufficed.

Moreover the  fact that the SHs were missing for 2 years (and noone suspects Mihawk to have trained Zoro, or weatheria to teach Nami and so on) makes it difficult to judge for others, as to where the SHs stand. The fact that DD was beaten also, while being an indicator, has to be taken with a grain of salt as well, since not only did the entire country back up the SHs but also the shicki Law, furthermore there was the marine admiral around! Therefore BM might have falsely estimated the defeat of DD, not only to be the consequence of the powerlvl of the SHs but also the added shicki on the top as well as a possible interference of an admrial, making her misjudge the SHs lvl. And imo referring to the presentation in the news and the video transmission, well the admiral apologizes for whats happened to the country, being there having witnessed it all, staying in the center of destruction, ..... hmh ...... what might that mean --> perhaps he has had his hands in the downfall of DD.

 

Ergo BM comparing the SHs power to the ones of the SHs generation, leads to BMs misunderstanding of the superiority the SHs have over the rest of the worst gen. Therefore she made the mistake of, while having known that Cracker did not call in and say hello, not acting directly, but since the enraged army was capable of defeating Luffy and Nami anyway (which according to her knowledge meant that 4 out of 6 SHs were already done in, since Bruleé already told her she got them, so why in hell worry about the others, when even the bounty posters, tell u whom to beware of, with all the higher bounty people being in custody/dead/under watch/captured (Brook, Pedro, Sanji, Luffy) (although bounty might be misleading, in many cases it has its reference to power, or better say at least gives u a good hint)).  

 

Of course many things in BMs crew go wrong, like having the children want to fight/kill each other or making them compare to each other, yet still as of now that all was enough to beat anyone who dared challenge her, consequently why bother? Sure as hell the fear the children have of BM also hinders her info garthering (like whom is to say that Bruleé and diesel will tell her about the poneglyph copy, also there is jinbei and luffy/nami escape being hidden from her) but perhaps she wants it to be that way, because of situations of the past, where is became clear that if she acts differently it is even worse? Perhaps she just is a believer of the way: competition is good for business?



#182 Zeando

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:20 PM

Nope, more like how Oda draw them, BM is fat so her nose is bigger, and since Mont d'or and Brulée are less fat the only difference come from the color. (not much difference into the shaping, except the pointy tip of Mont d'or)

 

ah, that's reasonable, makes me wonder how would Bìg Mom look if she was more thin, while keeping her base features

 

 

I thought you were talking more about: how thoses that difference makes them siblings.
My mistake.

 

at first i was thinking Brulee and Mont D'Or had something in common, since from afar they both looked like having "long dark crooked noses", which looked similar
but after finding some close ups, they don't look so similar

my comment about details was to point out i was making that comparison using "long dark crooked noses" and not just "long nose", which looked like what you and kidd were going with the discussion, sorry for the confusion


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#183 captain kidd

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:59 PM

Just wanted to comment to the "weakness" of BM.

Well first thing we know is that Bruleé herself said that Apoo, Kidd, Capone and Urouge all already infiltrated/attacked WCI, still all of them were defeated, with ONLY Urouge being significant enough to be able to defeat 1 commander (http://mangaseeonlin...837-page-8.html)! This essentially actually underlines Bruleé's statement, that the invaders were "swiftly escorted" , as like in saying easily beaten, which in turn means, that the current worst generation is not actually able to back up their fame (http://mangaseeonlin...837-page-9.html), of course the fact of the matter remains, that we dont know, when the others attacked BMs territory, but since Urouge is still wounded, at least he could have fought BM just recently.
As such, while i still think it a bit strange, i can understand why BM "just" send Bruleé to defeat half the SHs (realising this might not do it, send Cracker as back up). The fact that BM send Cracker right away actually screams that she deems the SHs to be a bigger threat then the ones of the worst gen who previously entered! And before u say, wait u r so wrong all of the worst gen fought like hell, here is a manga page that says otherwise (and remember Bruleé already stated "swiftly escorted): http://mangaseeonlin...837-page-9.html notice: "semblance of a fight" that essentially specifically states, that all the former rookies were "fodder" compared to BMs forces, while not even being backed up by a commander and consequently it is not that far fetched when u believe 1 of ur commanders to be able to defeat (remember ONLY half the crew there http://mangaseeonlin...35-page-14.html) the SHs, since 1 commander ordinarily sufficed.
Moreover the fact that the SHs were missing for 2 years (and noone suspects Mihawk to have trained Zoro, or weatheria to teach Nami and so on) makes it difficult to judge for others, as to where the SHs stand. The fact that DD was beaten also, while being an indicator, has to be taken with a grain of salt as well, since not only did the entire country back up the SHs but also the shicki Law, furthermore there was the marine admiral around! Therefore BM might have falsely estimated the defeat of DD, not only to be the consequence of the powerlvl of the SHs but also the added shicki on the top as well as a possible interference of an admrial, making her misjudge the SHs lvl. And imo referring to the presentation in the news and the video transmission, well the admiral apologizes for whats happened to the country, being there having witnessed it all, staying in the center of destruction, ..... hmh ...... what might that mean --> perhaps he has had his hands in the downfall of DD.

Ergo BM comparing the SHs power to the ones of the SHs generation, leads to BMs misunderstanding of the superiority the SHs have over the rest of the worst gen. Therefore she made the mistake of, while having known that Cracker did not call in and say hello, not acting directly, but since the enraged army was capable of defeating Luffy and Nami anyway (which according to her knowledge meant that 4 out of 6 SHs were already done in, since Bruleé already told her she got them, so why in hell worry about the others, when even the bounty posters, tell u whom to beware of, with all the higher bounty people being in custody/dead/under watch/captured (Brook, Pedro, Sanji, Luffy) (although bounty might be misleading, in many cases it has its reference to power, or better say at least gives u a good hint)).

Of course many things in BMs crew go wrong, like having the children want to fight/kill each other or making them compare to each other, yet still as of now that all was enough to beat anyone who dared challenge her, consequently why bother? Sure as hell the fear the children have of BM also hinders her info garthering (like whom is to say that Bruleé and diesel will tell her about the poneglyph copy, also there is jinbei and luffy/nami escape being hidden from her) but perhaps she wants it to be that way, because of situations of the past, where is became clear that if she acts differently it is even worse? Perhaps she just is a believer of the way: competition is good for business?


Ok first off. I don't want to be so quick to call the worst generation weak.

Do you know in the military to attack an enemy force and garentee victory you need 3:1 troops? And to attack a fortified position you need 5:1. I point that out to underline the value of the homefield advantage. And don't forget, the only reason the SH crew was able to escape the woods was because of the Vivi card nami had. Also we don't know which commanders were sent to deal with SN member, we also have no clue when any of the sn attacked. For all we know 1.5 years ago BM's #1 commander could of defeated Kidd. Or 2 years ago BM's number 2 could of defeated Hawkins.

And you question why only bluree was sent. Personally the way I always saw it was bluree wasn't sent, bluree is part of the suducing woods. Bluree was always there. She fits, her powers make the woods more confusing, she knew what she was doing that is for sure. To me she seemed as important a part of the woods as the moving trees.

To me asking why bluree was sent to deal with the SH is like asking why the 2 giants were attacking the franky family at water 7. They were there it is what they do. Just a theory, I find it hard to believe BM would "send" bluree to fight luffy when the much weaker mad monk just defeated a commander
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#184 Chillman

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:37 PM

nah, after looking a better close ups they're all different
 
http://i.imgur.com/6ZUD2sw.png...  .  http://i.imgur.com/gX0he2T.png...  .  http://i.imgur.com/xQuo5dot.png...
 
Big Mom has a big nose, Mont D'Or has a long one with points, Brulee has a long dark one


Their father could've had a short pointy nose.

#185 Zeando

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:51 PM

Their father could've had a short pointy nose.

 

a "dark short pointy nose" :lmao:

 

 

Oda should have had lots of fun making up this crew

he just needs to create a random character, then make it mate with Big Mom, pick some traits from the father, some other traits from Big Mom, and there it goes, a new random character with a lineage is born :hai:

but then he went overboard and hundreds of kids were born...

 

 

talking about other same father siblings, there is also Opera and the other bulky guys who resemble him


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#186 Grimmjagger

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:56 PM

Their father could've had a short pointy nose.

 

Probably they only "father" BM took her time with LOL :laugh:

 

 

a "dark short pointy nose" :lmao:

 

 

Oda should have had lots of fun making up this crew

he just needs to create a random character, then make it mate with Big Mom, pick some traits from the father, some other traits from Big Mom, and there it goes, a new random character with a lineage is born :hai:

but then he went overboard and hundreds of kids were born...

 

 

talking about other same father siblings, there is also Opera and the other bulky guys who resemble him

 

You could also said that they are like a group of "insects" or "vermin", whatever it is a hundreds children isn't possible for human but anyway.


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#187 captain kidd

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:08 PM

Ya you have to give Oda credit he did go out of his way to make certain characters apperently from the same father.

You then have to take away that credit because he didn't go nearly far enough in some cases. Lola and .... Lola 2 are the same damn person, ophara and other guy... I thought one was a cream clone of the other honestly.
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#188 capu

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:31 PM

Ok first off. I don't want to be so quick to call the worst generation weak.

 And don't forget, the only reason the SH crew was able to escape the woods was because of the Vivi card nami had. Also we don't know which commanders were sent to deal with SN member, we also have no clue when any of the sn attacked. For all we know 1.5 years ago BM's #1 commander could of defeated Kidd. Or 2 years ago BM's number 2 could of defeated Hawkins.

And you question why only bluree was sent. Personally the way I always saw it was bluree wasn't sent, bluree is part of the suducing woods. Bluree was always there. She fits, her powers make the woods more confusing, she knew what she was doing that is for sure. To me she seemed as important a part of the woods as the moving trees.

To me asking why bluree was sent to deal with the SH is like asking why the 2 giants were attacking the franky family at water 7. They were there it is what they do. Just a theory, I find it hard to believe BM would "send" bluree to fight luffy when the much weaker mad monk just defeated a commander

fair enough

 

dont really know whether i undertsand who u mean here, but out of bruleé comment that all others were fighing while NOT being able to win/defeat whomever they fought (and it wasnt BM), with ONLY urouge being able to defeat a commander and then afterwards having to fight and be defeated by cracker!

Ergo all fought and lost, only urouge won vs a commander then lost vs Cracker! And we know for a fact that the one commander that lost vs Urouge, no longer is counted as commander! See bruleés statement. 

Yes we dont know when they attacked, but unlike with Drake he did not immediatly engage an emperor as far as we know, but yes u r right here. 

 

i did not question why brulee was sent, what u mean?

BM sent Cracker too so......dont get ur 2 last passages....

 

 



#189 Chillman

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:38 PM

Ya you have to give Oda credit he did go out of his way to make certain characters apperently from the same father.
You then have to take away that credit because he didn't go nearly far enough in some cases. Lola and .... Lola 2 are the same damn person, ophara and other guy... I thought one was a cream clone of the other honestly.


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#190 captain kidd

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:50 AM

fair enough

dont really know whether i undertsand who u mean here, but out of bruleé comment that all others were fighing while NOT being able to win/defeat whomever they fought (and it wasnt BM), with ONLY urouge being able to defeat a commander and then afterwards having to fight and be defeated by cracker!
Ergo all fought and lost, only urouge won vs a commander then lost vs Cracker! And we know for a fact that the one commander that lost vs Urouge, no longer is counted as commander! See bruleés statement.
Yes we dont know when they attacked, but unlike with Drake he did not immediatly engage an emperor as far as we know, but yes u r right here.

i did not question why brulee was sent, what u mean?
BM sent Cracker too so......dont get ur 2 last passages....


Oh forget the last paragraph then, it was something I saw a few others questioned so I must of miss understood what you were saying.
 
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#191 Zeando

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 04:04 AM

What if Capone gets hyped as being Rook?

 

simple guesses are the best :clap:


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#192 Abaroxa

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 04:44 AM

simple guesses are the best :clap:

 

Wow he got it right.

 

I wonder how long did it take Bege to get to this "rook" position and head of security.

He has to have been there for at least 1 year.



#193 Zeando

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 04:50 AM

no idea about the time, but he should have followed lots of orders in a very precise way, to gain trust from Big Mom to appoint him as a role like head of security at one of her tea parties

 

like with Pekoms in Zou, he shot Pekoms only cause he wasn't following precisely the orders, which may be part of how he acted to be accepted in the crew of Big Mom, Tamago even commended on Bege's choice to shot Pekoms


Edited by Zeando, 27 March 2017 - 07:11 AM.


#194 Zeando

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 07:11 AM

taking inspiration from an other thread

 

wonder if the souls used by Big Mom to make homies have some connection on how skilled the resulting homie will be

similarly as with Moria, shadows taken from strong fighters could be used to make skilled zombies

 

specifically talking about the rabbit Randolph, who was showed being tasket to collect food and ingredients for the tea party, next to Diesel and Amande

while Amande and Diesel look "human", in the sense they don't seems to be homies, it looks odd for an homie to be tasked with a job on the same level of other "humans"

so i wonder if the soul piece used to make Randolph came from some strong fighter, or if instead of a piece, it was the whole lifespan of the previous fighter whose lifespan was removed after a failed attack on Big Mom, or after trying to leave her crew

 

also wonder if homies with long lifespans can grow in experience and eventually be considered no different from other living persons

 

other above average homies were, the big tree Baum, the Crocodile

and then there are the top homies made with soul pieces of Big Mom: Prometeus, Zeus, and Napoleon


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#195 captain kidd

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 07:22 AM

I don't like that idea, I frequently call BM moria 2.0 and it hasn't caught on but if different souls start giving the powers of their user, mixed with the fact that better objects give better abilities, I really would see no difference between BM and moria at that point. (Aside from the fact souls can't enter another persona and shadows can)

next up BM will start using her incarnations to form bats and attack her opponents.
 
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#196 Zeando

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 05:21 PM

an homie getting skills from their original soul sounds out of place to me too, since the extracted souls we saw didn't look to be keeping a sense of personality to them, with Muscat, the extracted souls looked just like an inanimated gas/liquid substance

 

but maybe, while the homies don't gain any skill the original person had, maybe they keep some traits of their character, things which have no effect on their fighting skill, but which may make the difference between an homie which just stays there and continues to do the same thing, and an other homie which starts to train and eventually becomes stronger

i'm thinking Randolph was just a normal rabbit homie at first, but because of the character of the person his soul piece came from, he started to train and eventually he became a strong fighter, strong enough to be recognized as a full member of the crew of Big Mom, so much to receive tasks and jobs, as going to collect food for a tea party

 

there is a clear difference between the common tree homies, the random objects into the castle, the door homies, and then the other homies like Randolph and few others which showed an higher fighting level

just wonder where that difference comes from

 

or maybe it's just appearance, and a tree homie could be sent to collect food on other islands? :/


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#197 captain kidd

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 07:00 AM

I am sorry I just really hate this fruit.

My idea, is instead of the quality of the soul, it could be the ammount of soul. Maybe he more soul an object has the stronger it is? So Randolph is made of 40 years, where's the trees are 6 months?

It is just sickeningly similar to moria's fruit I can't really respect this fruit......

Why did this have to be the soul fruit? Why couldn't it be my life fruit? BM had the power to give life and take it, there, an entirely unique fruit. But no. Instead we are in the same exact situation we were in TB, BM takes shadows from her citizens and puts them in any random object to create zombies.....


I want to give Oda so much credit for what he did with logia. Logia.... controlling an element.... sounds over used and boring. But Oda gave them all nearly unique ways to fight. Look at kizaru and enel, very similar fruit, very fast very powerful elements, one uses large flashy elemental attacks and a staff, the other uses small precise attacks and kicks. (Although he does have flashy attacks just like enel can kick) none of the logia felt recycled..... then we meet caribou and monet.....

But Oda has the much more broad "other" category of DF and he has made so many repeats. The kilo fruit and ton fruit. The bomb fruit and burst fruit. The soul fruit and shadow fruit.

And if they were like the logia and fought differently I would forgive Oda. But they don't, the kilo fruit and ton fruit literally fought he same exact way. Same with the shadow and soul fruit. What did moria do? He put the strongest shadow he could use in a powerful body and fought inside it. What's does BM do? She puts the most powerful soul in the most powerful homie and fights with those.

Well that was a long rant....
 
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#198 Zeando

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 03:14 PM

"My idea, is instead of the quality of the soul, it could be the ammount of soul. Maybe he more soul an object has the stronger it is? So Randolph is made of 40 years, where's the trees are 6 months?"
that's a nice idea

 

but then i would wonder, how many years each of the top 3 homies have? they can't have lots of time since they are soul pieces from Big Mom, unless Big Mom added to them more lifespan from other people in addition to her own soul pieces

 

"Why did this have to be the soul fruit? Why couldn't it be my life fruit? BM had the power to give life and take it, there, an entirely unique fruit. But no. Instead we are in the same exact situation we were in TB, BM takes shadows from her citizens and puts them in any random object to create zombies....."

i don't get this, how different would it have been if her power had been "give life and take it" ?


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#199 Chillman

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 09:23 AM

How many sons and daughters does BM have? We just found out about her oldest kids.



#200 captain kidd

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 10:35 AM

How many sons and daughters does BM have? We just found out about her oldest kids.


It was said before by pudding when the crew first meet her.
 
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