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Vinland Saga


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#21 DrugzRule

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:21 AM

I agree. As a matter a fact, I try to think of a singlr character in manga in general, as awesome and well written as Askeladd, but currently can't think of one.. Can you guys?

 

It is subjective but I agree about Askeladd, he is one of the best written characters in any manga.



#22 beakedbard

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 01:50 PM

I have to agree he is and will always be the best character in this manga kinda reminded me of Tyrion from a song of ice and fire in some of his plots.



#23 Vafhudr

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:59 PM

Well, I would say that Canute's development/character arc is just as impressive as Askeladd. I would add Thorfinn to that, but I... kind of dislike the line the manga took toward him. I mean, it's understandable, logical even, but it doesn't mean I like it. I mean, On the other hand, I actually have some high hopes for it. In a certain sense Thorfinn is going to be kind of like Vash from Trigun. 

He'll try to be a pacifist in a harsh land. Let's face it, the norselands could be like the old west, or new west in the case of Trigun. He has already faced a difficult challenge in Snake with regards to maintaining his pacifism. It is going to be interesting to see it challenged more and more. Canute is his inverse, a boy who started well but who is going down on the path of blood. He started on the path of blood and trying to get out of it. Furthermore, both are trying to find heaven, or eden. Canute is trying to make heaven on Earth, to materialize the eschaton. Thorfinn will end up seeking it, and possibly find it in Vinland. What's funny, or rather tragic, is that they will both fail. There is no heaven to be found on this earth. This may tie in with the wider Christian/Buddhist themes of the work.  


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#24 DrugzRule

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:32 PM

Well, I would say that Canute's development/character arc is just as impressive as Askeladd. I would add Thorfinn to that, but I... kind of dislike the line the manga took toward him. I mean, it's understandable, logical even, but it doesn't mean I like it. I mean, On the other hand, I actually have some high hopes for it. In a certain sense Thorfinn is going to be kind of like Vash from Trigun. 

He'll try to be a pacifist in a harsh land. Let's face it, the norselands could be like the old west, or new west in the case of Trigun. He has already faced a difficult challenge in Snake with regards to maintaining his pacifism. It is going to be interesting to see it challenged more and more. Canute is his inverse, a boy who started well but who is going down on the path of blood. He started on the path of blood and trying to get out of it. Furthermore, both are trying to find heaven, or eden. Canute is trying to make heaven on Earth, to materialize the eschaton. Thorfinn will end up seeking it, and possibly find it in Vinland. What's funny, or rather tragic, is that they will both fail. There is no heaven to be found on this earth. This may tie in with the wider Christian/Buddhist themes of the work.  

Yeah, for me this is sorta went against my expectations as this pacifist theme the manga is going for is so "un-nordic" and much more Japanese. Which is kinda to be expected when we did have a awesome prologue with Askeladd as the main character with action, plots and whatnot and I really wanted it to be like that and even after Askeladd's death this manga still could have done it by focusing on Canute and his conquest but instead we got to focus on Thorfinn and him revalue life. Which is a shame cause I think he is the most boring character in the manga. Canute, Thorkell, Thorgil, Snake and even Einar are more interesting to me. I would actually really like if we got to see why Thors started his pacifist way of living which should be more interesting since he apparently started from the bottom and became one of the strongest soldiers in all of the Nordic sea and then he just gave it all up.

 

Thorfinn isn't that awful though, he is still building his new character and the next chapters will be crucial since this is what the farmland arc has been building up until now and we get to see whether Thorfinn succeeds or fails saving the Ketil family and avoid slaughter. I think though Thorfinn will find redemption in the end and maybe even his eden and Canute to understand the way of pacifism since Yukimura is more optimistic than some other authors who wrote bittersweets endings in their manga. And he isn't being completely accurate so we shouldn't expect Vinland Saga to follow history that closely. Leif got along with the natives in the manga after all.



#25 Vafhudr

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:48 PM

It certainly is un-nordic. I think it would have been cooler, or at least, more in line with my tastes, if he was more of an Achilles figure .

It is, in my opinion, more along the lines of the old epics and sagas. It is not so much about redemption (ugh) and more with the consequences of wrath and its consequences.

There are serious traces of this in the story. Askeladd's story is driven by rage. As a character he is moved by a misanthropy fueled by his hate and contempt of the Nords. 

Rage and wrath is the main driver of this story. Thorkell is an embodiment of this war lust/battle rage: a barbaric reveler. Bjorn is a strange example: he provokes in himself a chemical rage to go into battle. Thorfinn is, like Askeladd, fueled by a certain hate and contempt of men, having lived among Askeladd's man, and more importantly, hate for his father's killer. Canute also came to embrace his hate for the human condition and his rage against the heaven. 

 

Thorfinn is a deviation in that he is... burned out. His hate has petered out with Askeladd's demise. Which I guess is still an exploration of the consequence of his own single-minded rage. 

What drives Thorfinn now?

Escape.

He wants to escape this world filled with hate and rage. Vinland I guess is that escape. 

I'm not saying that he is awful as a character. I think he is in fact fascinating as a character. I'm just not too hot on the implications. 


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#26 DrugzRule

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 07:05 PM

Thorfinn is though way to hesitant to hurt someone now and is just failing saving people. Which does bring up the difficulties of living without violence in this world. Thorfinn is perhaps a desperate person who as you said seeks to escape this world so he can live without the violence. I prefer characters who adjust to the world they are in and if they are unsatisfied, try to change it like Canute. If the world is cruel, you become cruel yourself. That is how people lived in violent times.

Thorfinn is now filled with strong sense of pacifism, especially after the dream sequence where he got to observe war at it's most gruesome. I think this can play several ways, either he actually gives up and becomes violent again, or he gets a epiphany where he learns to deal with the problems or he may become even more self-conceited and desperate, not learning anything. All of it depends on the success of his preaching and how willing people are to listen to him.



#27 Tinky Winky

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:54 PM

I guess he needs a girl who will eventually give birth to his child in Vinland, just how it happened in real life to Thorfinn Karlsefni. But I guess that won't happen, as this manga is heavily inspired from Berserk, and is all about revenge, guilt and redemption.



#28 Rashugun

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:47 AM

Alright, next chapter (or next next...) will ne the shizz. But... 16 pages? Seriously?

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#29 Liar

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:20 AM

I was seriously disappointed too with how short it was. And on a cliffhanger too...



#30 ShinmenTakezo

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:21 AM

Honestly, it is not too much to expect at least 30 pages in a monthly series


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#31 Liar

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:23 AM

Hopefully we get to see Thorfinn fight like a badass soon.



#32 ShinmenTakezo

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:26 AM

Hopefully we get to see Thorfinn fight like a badass soon.

 

Well, looking at his current disposition, that will be rather unlikely. The only thing i could imagine would be that Thorfinn loses himself upon seeing Leif or getting provoked by the latter.


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#33 Liar

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:28 AM

I know... goodness... I hate pacifists in action manga...



#34 Tinky Winky

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:36 AM

Thorgil kinda reminds me of Thorkell in more ways than one.



#35 ShinmenTakezo

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:43 AM

Thorgil kinda reminds me of Thorkell in more ways than one.

 

Well, at least both seem battle crazy


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#36 Tsiakkos

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:32 AM

I predict a Ketil Vs Kanute and a Snake Vs Thorkell fight

#37 Tinky Winky

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:12 AM

Why would Canute fight? He's the king.



#38 MattC302

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:31 PM

It seems like every other chapter I change my mind about whether or not Thorfinn will fight :lol:


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#39 ZCOverload

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:42 PM

16 pages. 16 FUCKING PAGES.

 

Ugh.

 

Nevertheless though I DID enjoy this chapter immensely.


I'll clear this with no continues!

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#40 DeadFantasy

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:49 PM

Am I the only one who wanted to see when Thorffin and the old man to meet? Like how they previously met you know.... anyways 16 pages? And this is suppose to be a monthly series? Come on.


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