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[Miscellaneous] RAWs and Translations


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#1 DarkNemesis

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:16 PM

Need a translation, understanding of the nuances of the original text, comparison of the translation to the original text. Post here.

 

 

 

On Chapter 523, Shunsui gives a quick blurb about how Unohana came to the G13.  Well that translation isn't very good. So here's the RAW.

 

The text in question is:

山じに力を買われ隊長となる前はSoul Society空前絶後の大悪人.
A rough translation is:

Before becoming a captain whose power was bought by Yama-jii, she was the greatest unprecedented villain* in Soul Society.

 

Actually 大悪人 = daiakunin = great villain. But since 空前絶後 (= kuukenzetsugo = unprecedented, unparalleled) comes before it, I think translating it as "greatest unprecedented" isn't distorting the meaning too much. It could also be translated as "a great villian without precendence".


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#2 PlasmaWolf

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:28 PM

...  :rly:

 

You could have sent me a PM instead of making a thread. :P


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#3 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:29 PM

Eh, keeping all the translations in one place makes searching easier.

 

Plasma, go move all your posts~


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#4 DarkNemesis

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:47 PM

...  :rly:
 
You could have sent me a PM instead of making a thread. :P


Oh, no. I wouldn't want you to have scan and clean! The humanity!

:lol:
 

Eh, keeping all the translations in one place makes searching easier.
 
Plasma, go move all your posts~


I will probably just copy translations wherever I see them.

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#5 PlasmaWolf

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:51 PM

Need a translation, understanding of the nuances of the original text, comparison of the translation to the original text. Post here.
 
 
 
On Chapter 523, Shunsui gives a quick blurb about how Unohana came to the G13.  Well that translation isn't very good. So here's the RAW.
 
The text in question is:
 
A rough translation is:
 
 
 
Actually 大悪人 = daiakunin = great villain. But since 空前絶後 (= kuukenzetsugo = unprecedented, unparalleled) comes before it, I think translating it as "greatest unprecedented" isn't distorting the meaning too much. It could also be translated as "a great villian without precendence".


http://puu.sh/8aDdN.png

Shunsui: 山じいに力を買われ隊長となる前は ---> "Before becoming a captain and having her power valued by Yama-jii..."
Shunsui: 尸魂界史上空前絶後の大悪人 ---> "...she was a great villain never before seen* in Soul Society's history."

PN: 空前絶後 ("kuuzenzetsugo") is a very, very specific phrase; it means "[something] tremendously uncommon/rare," or a phenomenon so astounding/marvelous that it's more than likely "the first and last" of its kind. It's actually a "double compound" as 空前 ("kuuzen") means "unprecedented/record-breaking" while 絶後 ("zetsugo") roughly means "never to be seen again." As for 大悪人 ("dai akunin"), it's basically a "great villain" (literal reading) or a "grand wicked person," so your translation also works fairly well.

 

買われ ("kaware") in the first line means "to value/appreciate" (perhaps interestingly, it can also mean "to be bought/purchased").


Edited by PlasmaWolf, 15 April 2014 - 11:52 PM.

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#6 Tenno

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 12:35 AM

Plasma you should just start charging


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#7 Milareppa

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:47 AM

Looks to me like Kubo might possibly have been going for a play on words in which both Dark Nemesis and Plasma's translations would be intended (and, given the inevitable degradation between languages that any translation suffers, probably something more, too).


Edited by Milareppa, 16 April 2014 - 05:47 AM.


#8 BoriketheBlackDragon

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:49 AM

A thread where people post RAWs would have been helpful last week when I was scouring the interwebs looking for Nozarashi's Kanji


Edited by BoriketheBlackDragon, 16 April 2014 - 05:50 AM.

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#9 Fulmine

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:22 AM

I'm not so sure about ''zetsugo'' so unprecedented is good enough. Aizen has proved to be much better than her (not in terms of brutality, though)


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#10 Infernal Symphony

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:32 AM

I'm not so sure about ''zetsugo'' so unprecedented is good enough. Aizen has proved to be much better than her (not in terms of brutality, though)

Well we have nothing on her years before being the 1st Kenpachi and we know that whatever happened post that changed her significantly. She may or may not make Aizen look like a child when it comes to killing and torturing people. I think 8,000 styles have to count for something.


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#11 DarkNemesis

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 01:00 PM

Referring to Chapters 49 and 50 about Ichigo's power after attacking the Menos.
 

In short, Lone_ant was right. I shouldn't have said broken shikai. He was at base the whole time. It's just his actual power/reiatsu was the equivalent of someone in shikai or bankai.

 


So first, I'm going to assume that the attack was a GT. With that said, that was the first time Ichigo tapped into his shinigami powers. And as Ishida said, Ichigo's power was at its lowest possible state. So using that power open and broke the spiggot and his power started to pour out. Uncontrollably. So yes, Rukia's zanpakutou that Ichigo was using did change shape. But that's because it was becoming distorted and his reiatsu was dispersing in an uncontrolled and rapid rate. So Ishida had to control the flow of reiatsu from Ichigo to keep Ichigo from destroying himself.

This chapter explains it.



I agree up until the 'broken spigot' and agree that Ichigo's tap was "broken" and he couldn't handle it. The problem is the reason or where the "water" came from.

http://www.mangapand...chapter-50.html
Ishida explicitly says that the Zanpakuto spirit is loose now - i.e. unsealed meaning about to break free, that is to say, release.

Mind you the entire time, the focus has been on the Zanpakutou as the focus of Ichigo's shinigami powers. So it wasn't merely Ichigo losing control of his riatsu (otherwise Ishida wouldn't have needed to focus on the sword or make contact with the sword) but the Zan going wild.

Consider the previous chapter titled: Unchained (I wonder what was unchained here...)
http://www.mangapand...chapter-49.html
Ichigo puts his riatsu into the zan and battles through the zan.

http://www.mangapand...chapter-49.html
Ishida mentions that Ichigo's power is at its lowest possible state.

http://www.mangapand...chapter-49.html
An outside force forces Ichigo to go higher (put more riatsu in the sword) than his lowest possible state (which is as an Asauchi wielding Shinigami), where he performs a GT:

http://www.mangapand...chapter-49.html
An attack only possible in the next higher state (i.e.a released Shikai state).

If you know electrons this would be similar to electron excitement. Consider an electron orbiting around a nucleus. Imagine the electron being thethred by a rope. The less energy there is on swinging the rope, the closer in the electron orbits the nucleus. However an outside force can add energy to the electron (say light), and because there is more energy, the rope swings faster and the electron is pushed to a much farther orbit

Once Ichigo reached that higher energy state / orbit, his Zan was obliged to release (after all the attack could only have been made in a Shikai state)

The problem is Ichigo is too weak to handle the power and would probably have been killed if the Zan released even partially. Hence, Ishida channeled the excess power until the 'spigot' wasn't overwhelmed anymore and Ichigo's riatsu became more settled. (This is also the reason why Shinigami don't just brute force their way to Shikai. Aside from the zan not agreeing, it is dangerous)

Consider all the other times riatsu was disturbed or uncontrolled.. you don't see the Zan suddenly wavering or changing form (indeed if you could do that just by disturbing your riatsu, you'd think people would do this deliberatley as a form of attack). Instead the only times we see Zans voluntarily changing form is during release or by active forging.

So we can only conclude that Ichigo's zan was releasing itself at that moment. This never happens again though, so perhaps Ichigo became more careful or more capable or Zangetsu became more cautious and limited even more power, or perhaps any combination of the above.



Two pages later, Ishida starts referring to Ichigo's spirit. I looked for the raw of that chapter, but couldn't find it.



Yeah, Ishida was trying to reduce Ichigo's energy state so his zan wouldn't release. You realize Shinigami have two spirits right? There's the Zanpakutou spirit and the Shinigami himself.. both of which govern the shinigami's riatsu (hence why Kenpachi was weakning himself by going against his Zan the first time he fought against Ichigo).



http://puu.sh/8b7qL.jpg

Uryuu: 霊力を突然解放して... ---> "A sudden releasing of spiritual power (reiryoku)..."
Uryuu: 調節がきかなくなっているのか...!! ---> "Did the adjustment disappear...!!?"

http://puu.sh/8b7rs.jpg

Uryuu: 黒崎が 御しきれない霊気を ---> "Kurosaki can't manage the aura*."

PN: 霊気 ("reiki") is basically "spirit air/gas" and 気 itself can also read as "spirit." The translation of "aura" comes from the phrase being a "mystical atmosphere," or the "presence of a spirit."

Uryuu: 僕が奪い · 固めて放出すればいいんだ! ---> "It'll be okay if I dispossess it and emit it while solidified..."
Uryuu: 次から次へ次から次へ ---> "...one after another, one after another..."

Uryuu: 黒崎の霊気が落ちつくまで...!! ---> "...until Kurosaki's aura calms down...!!"


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#12 Milareppa

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:16 PM

Hm. In that context, it's almost comparable to akasha or aether and, if so, we're into the subject of quintessence and the flow of such between Uryuu and Ichigo. I mention that solely because we're talking about two quincies (or more accurately two individuals with backgrounds that are unique by quincy standards) and I think that scene is very important to understanding both the bond between Ichigo and Uryuu and why their powers are so important for the final arc - I don't think Uryuu was entirely right to think it was solely caused by Ichigo's power because neither of them knew Ichigo was part quincy (or part hollow or anything but shinigami) and neither of them knew there was something odd about Uryuu's own power as well.

That was resonance, or the Bleach equivalent, between two youngsters who didn't understand what was happening and therefore could take no more advantage of it than a tool to save Ichigo's life and teach Uryuu an immediately valuable lesson without unlocking the secrets of both of their powers.

Edited by Milareppa, 16 April 2014 - 05:18 PM.


#13 DarkNemesis

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:58 PM


That was resonance,

 

I'm glad you brought that up because in MP after Ichigo gets hit with a cero Uryuu notes that a resonance is occurring between Ichigo and the Menos (well going by the text, Ichigo's power and Menos's power). So a similar resonance could have also occurred between Uryuu and Ichigo when they "connected" but their powers didn't clash so abruptly.

 

I'm going to have to translate that page now :)


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#14 PlasmaWolf

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:04 PM

I'm glad you brought that up because in MP after Ichigo gets hit with a cero Uryuu notes that a resonance is occurring between Ichigo and the Menos (well going by the text, Ichigo's power and Menos's power). So a similar resonance could have also occurred between Uryuu and Ichigo when they "connected" but their powers didn't clash so abruptly.
 
I'm going to have to translate that page now :)

 
This page? @_@

http://puu.sh/8bBRL.jpg

Uryuu: ...何だ...? ......共鳴......? ---> "...What is...? ......Resonance......?"

Uryuu: 何だ... この異常な霊圧は!? ---> "What is... this abnormal reiatsu!?"

Uryuu: 黒崎の力が... 増大している......!? ---> "Kurosaki's power... is increasing......!?"

Uryuu: "共鳴"によってか...? ---> "Because of the 'resonance'...?"
Uryuu: 砂の中に埋もれた砂鉄が強力なじしゅくで無理矢理 堀り起こされるように... ---> "Like iron sand* that was buried inside of sand being forcibly dug up by a strong magnet..."

PN: *I don't know how else to translate 砂鉄 ("satetsu") other than "iron sand."


Edited by PlasmaWolf, 16 April 2014 - 07:06 PM.

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#15 DarkNemesis

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:09 PM

Thank you :)

 

I wanted to make sure that MP's use of "resonance" was accurate.


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#16 PlasmaWolf

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:12 PM

Years of reading Soul Eater makes that phrase ("kyoumei") instantly recognizable. tfX4wLI.png


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#17 Milareppa

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:58 AM

This page? @_@

http://puu.sh/8bBRL.jpg

Uryuu: ...何だ...? ......共鳴......? ---> "...What is...? ......Resonance......?"

Uryuu: 何だ... この異常な霊圧は!? ---> "What is... this abnormal reiatsu!?"

Uryuu: 黒崎の力が... 増大している......!? ---> "Kurosaki's power... is increasing......!?"

Uryuu: "共鳴"によってか...? ---> "Because of the 'resonance'...?"
Uryuu: 砂の中に埋もれた砂鉄が強力なじしゅくで無理矢理 堀り起こされるように... ---> "Like iron sand* that was buried inside of sand being forcibly dug up by a strong magnet..."

PN: *I don't know how else to translate 砂鉄 ("satetsu") other than "iron sand."


It sounds like a reference to magnetite which can often be found in the sand at beaches and which will respond to lodestones/magnets.

Magnetite can be called 'black sand', 'mineral sand' or 'iron sand'.
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#18 DarkNemesis

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:05 AM

So I'm reading this page and I come across this phrase: 特記戦力の1. Now one translation has it as "number one in strength". A better translation of that translation would be: "number one war potential". That may make sense if the kana was read left to right. But traditionally, especially in that format, kana is read from right to left. Also, "number one" from my experience would have been "ichiban (一番)". So my best translation of the RAW is "one of the war potentials". But I wanted to make sure I was reading/translating that right.

So am I right?


For those wondering, 特記戦力 = special war/fighting potential. 特記 = tokki = special. 戦力 = senryoku = war/fighting potential.



First of all, ignore the Manga Stream translation. The の character can mean several things, but when placed immediately after a noun, it's a modifier indicating "possession" and/or signalling apposition. In other words, there are two ways to read that phrase:

1. "Tokki senryoku, the 1."
2. "The 1 of tokki senryoku."

Clearly, neither of the two makes sense when translated to English, so it becomes "number one" (as in literally, the numeral "one"), or "the first." I would personally translate it as "special war power number one" or "the first special war power." It's not "potential" in my opinion, as "senzaiteki" (潜在的) is the phrase for "potential" or "[something] latent." BadKarma calls it "special asset," which is also accurate as "senryoku" (戦力) is "military strength" or "war power." Also, "tokki" (特記) isn't just "special," it's more like "special account/chronicle."

I suppose Kubo didn't want to use "ichiban" (一番) as it can be an adverb meaning "most" or "-est."



So 1 of the tokki senryoku is wrong?



Given that he used the actual numeral, I'd say it's wrong.

一つの特記戦力 ("hitotsu no tokki senryoku") would be "one of the special war powers." In chapter four hundred and ninety, Ichigo is referred to as "one of the five..." Notice the characters used in the original Japanese version of the same chapter. 5つの”特記戦力”の内の1つ

The literal reading would be: "One of out of five of 'special war powers'..."

1つ - "hitotsu."
5つ - "itsutsu."



Ahhhhh. sou ka.

I see. But now your post makes this not as simple. So it's either: "the first war potential" or "the number one war potential" or "war potential number one". All 3 mean something different. Either Zaraki is the first ever war potential. Or he's the ichiban no chikara of the war potentials. Or he's just simply No.1 on a list.


Also, Google Translate translates senryoku as war/fighting potential. So by default, that likelihood of that translation being wrong is high :lol:



It's true, Bach/Royd doesn't clarify what the labeling means, it's just a classification. I would say "the first war power" and "war power number one" are essentially the same thing, with "number one war power" suggesting Kenpachi's the strongest/most important of the bunch.

As it stands, not only did Bach/Royd not elaborate on what he meant, but the "war power" term itself is still undefined.



It's also worth observing that in one of the chapters - the first chapter the 'special war potential' was ever mentioned, I think - BadKarma did make a translator's note about their translating, observing it's difficult to identify the correct nuance when you don't really know what Kubo has in mind and that they might revisit their translation of the phrase one day when Kubo's finally revealed what a 'special war potential' really is.



Just curious if you meant this?



It is one of those phrases that mean different things depending on the context.

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#19 DarkNemesis

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 03:11 PM


The verb for "drink" is usually "nomimono" (飲み物),

 

Verb.... or noun?

 

while "swallow" is more specifically "nomikomu" (飲み込む).

 

That I haven't come across yet.

The kanji 飲む ("nomu") can also be translated more loosely as "to smoke (tobacco)," or to "engulf/enfold/swallow up."

 

I wonder in what situations nomu is used instead of suu.


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#20 PlasmaWolf

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 03:29 PM

Verb.... or noun?

 
Either/or, but often the noun form as the abbreviated 飲む is typically used for the verb.

*Edited my other post.
 

That I haven't come across yet.

 
More specifically, "nomikomu" (飲み込む) is closer to "swallow deeply/gulp down."
 

I wonder in what situations nomu is used instead of suu.


"Suu" (吸う) is more generally "to inhale/breathe in/suck" while overlapping with "to smoke."

"Nomu" (飲む) alludes to smoking tobacco, in particular.

Edited by PlasmaWolf, 24 April 2014 - 03:29 PM.

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