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[Group] Monster Trio


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#41 Nmaan

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 03:58 PM

Aye, but those instances weren't the reason Sanji is considered embarrassing. It is everything before that plus that. When is the last time Sanji looked good in a fight against non-fodders?

 

Eh are you not shifting goal posts now? Besides like I said since we were talking about fighting power I'm only interested in that side of things for this point.

Well Wadatsumi and arguably Vergo, I know he cracked his leg but he kept fighting without being significantly hampered as far as I could see. Who else has he fought that was non fodder?


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#42 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:00 PM

Eh are you not shifting goal posts now? Besides like I said since we were talking about fighting power I'm only interested in that side of things for this point.
Well Wadatsumi and arguably Vergo, I know he cracked his leg but he kept fighting without being significantly hampered as far as I could see. Who else has he fought that was non fodder?

He is still where he always is (relatively) in fighting power. I was talking about portrayal and mentality EDIT: of their strength. Hence why I don't care that Zolo hasn't done shit post-TS, because he always has that 'IMMA BEAST' thing running in the background.

 

Wadatsumi he had help from Jinbe, and breaking a leg to the guy Law one-shot isn't that great. Not that I don't think Vergo wasn't powerful -- I think he was immensely so, stronger than the seats at least -- it's just not the greatest portrayal of 'monster'. He has been used to hype others too much. :shrug:


Edited by DaEvilWithin, 16 September 2014 - 04:06 PM.


#43 Furinji Saiga

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:06 PM

He failed to keep left and right apart :shrug:

He can recognize a mountain now, so that's something.  :aww:

 

On another note, I like how Oda is consistent with the M3 in being portrayed and seen as monsters. 

 

Similar the Admiral trio who were called Monsters even when they were rookies. 

 

Even the two new Admirals are called monsters by Doffy 

 

CCC

Doflamingo: "Along with Ryokugyu, you're said to be a certified powerhouse of monstrous proportions."

 

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Doflamingo: Fuffuffu!! So it's you, eh...? // I've heard all about you, Fujitora. Specially appointed as a Marine Admiral through the World Conscription system. / I hear both you and Ryokugyuu are full-on monsters with power to spare!


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#44 Oben

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:08 PM

He can recognize a mountain now, so that's something.  :aww:

 

On another note, I like how Oda is consistent with the M3 in being portrayed and seen as monsters. 

 

Similar the Admiral trio who were called Monsters even when they were rookies. 

 

Even the two new Admirals are called monsters by Doffy 

 

CCC

Doflamingo: "Along with Ryokugyu, you're said to be a certified powerhouse of monstrous proportions."

 

cnet128

Doflamingo: Fuffuffu!! So it's you, eh...? // I've heard all about you, Fujitora. Specially appointed as a Marine Admiral through the World Conscription system. / I hear both you and Ryokugyuu are full-on monsters with power to spare!

 

Weren't the thugs of Big Mam's crew (that would destroy FI if necessary) also called monsters? I'm not sure if the term is that important...



#45 Furinji Saiga

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:09 PM

Weren't the thugs of Big Mam's crew (that would destroy FI if necessary) also called monsters? I'm not sure if the term is that important...

The consistency is nice.  :aww:


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#46 Sanji

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:12 PM

Since Doflamingo was stronger, yes.

 

And that doesn't make the damage Luffy did any less impressive.

 

Did not defend using hardening, though he used it against a Haki-less attack from Luffy.

 

There is really no way to get around Sanji being treated like a mid-tier character since the beginning of the TS.

 

How does it not make it any less impressive ? It's not less impressive if you are damaged when punched in the gut compared to actually trying to block the attack and still getting damaged ? That's what a defense is for, it makes all the difference in the world.

 

Luffy was using G2 and Hardening and got a clean hit on a haki-less/defenseless Doflamingo.

 

That was not a Haki- less attack from Luffy, Oda doesn't point out the use of invisible Haki from known Haki users. When attacking or actively defending, if one is a CoA user then he uses the invisible CoA, it should be common sense by now. If an exception happens Oda will point it out, like he did with Zoro refraining from using his CoA in order to not kill Monet. So Doflamingo defended himself from a G2 invisible Haki punch with hardening, but unlike Sanji in this case he was not shown to feel the strength of Luffy's attack through his defense, which makes Luffy look only slightly more impressive than Sanji did.

 

Sanji is treated similarly to how Luffy is treated when he's not meant to fight a decisive batte against an opponent. He's made to use low tier moves ( the spectre was hinted to be comparable to Luffy's G2 non hardened gatling in terms of significance in their respective arsenals and he used fodder clearing moves against Vergo ) to hype opponents that he's not meant to defeat, partially due to plot. Like Luffy not even using hardening against Doflamingo initially or him trying to punch Doflamingo with a basic gomu gomu pistol. Sanji needs to have his full post ts fight, against an opponent that we can properly judge, before we can tell how strong he actually is.


Edited by Sanji, 16 September 2014 - 04:16 PM.

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#47 Kazekage

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:14 PM

Behold the TRUE Monster Trio! 

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rqtcqH.jpg
 



#48 Furinji Saiga

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:15 PM

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#49 Sanji

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:15 PM

Franky looks so out of place. :lol:


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#50 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:18 PM

Luffy was using G2 and Hardening and got a clean hit on a haki-less/defenseless Doflamingo.

That was not a Haki- less attack from Luffy, Oda doesn't point out the use of invisible Haki from known Haki users. When attacking or actively defending, if one is a CoA user then he uses the invisible CoA, it should be common sense by now.

Do these two not contradict? Or was DD not actively defending despite having more than enough time to respond?

Sanji needs to have his full post ts fight, against an opponent that we can properly judge, before we can tell how strong he actually is.

That has nothing to do with the Sanji right now. How he has been portrayed since post-TS.



#51 Oben

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:18 PM

 

I'm rather positive that Sanji would hold better against the lower Executives than Franky did... while they did beat Franky up rather badly without taking any apparent injuries themselves ^^



#52 zetruz

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:19 PM

Weren't the thugs of Big Mam's crew (that would destroy FI if necessary) also called monsters? I'm not sure if the term is that important...

MS: "Beasts".

cnet128: "Warriors".

 

=)


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#53 Kazekage

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:20 PM

Oh right, I should have included Jinbei and made it a Monster Quartet. 



#54 Sanji

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:24 PM

Do these two not contradict? Or was DD not actively defending despite having more than enough time to respond?

That has nothing to do with the Sanji right now. How he has been portrayed since post-TS.

 

He was not actively defending because he was not shown actively defending. Raise an arm, raise a leg, name a defense, any hint whatsoever.

 

But it does. He looks sort of bad because he did not get a fight that was meant to show us what he can do. Instead of a Monet that he can troll he was given a Vergo that is a powerful opponent meant for Law to defeat and instead of an Admiral that doesn't really want to fuck up the SH's to bad he was given a Doflamingo that wants to murder them and has stupid hax at his disposal to end a fight against an unaware opponent faster than most.


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#55 waleuska

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:24 PM

um if we are talking about how well someone fought DD. Smoker also got his asskick by DD is franky stronger than him too? 


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#56 Oben

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:25 PM

MS: "Beasts".

cnet128: "Warriors".

 

=)

 

Hmm thanks... do you have a raw lying around somewhere by chance?

I had this discussion before, and someone pointed out it was "monsters" originally... not sure if he was correct though.


Edited by Oben, 16 September 2014 - 04:26 PM.


#57 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:25 PM

He was not actively defending because he was not shown actively defending. Raise an arm, raise a leg, name a defense, any hint whatsoever.
 
But it does. He looks sort of bad because he did not get a fight that was meant to show us what he can do. Instead of a Monet that he can troll he was given a Vergo that is a powerful opponent meant for Law to defeat and instead of an Admiral that doesn't really want to fuck up the SH's to bad he was given a Doflamingo that wants to murder them and has stupid hax at his disposal to end a fight against an unaware opponent faster than most.

Did he raise anything when he defended with hardening?

 

And I'm saying his 'looking sort of bad' is why I don't classify him as a monster.



#58 Sanji

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:30 PM

Did he raise anything when he defended with hardening?

 

And I'm saying his 'looking sort of bad' is why I don't classify him as a monster.

 

No, he said "hardening" or whatever. An absolute clear hint of him using a form of defense was given.

 

Luffy looked sort of bad against Doflamingo as well. Luffy even looked sort of bad against CC. But Luffy had his fights, and will have his fight this arc, so he can clear that sort of bad perspective. That's what Sanji lacks.


Edited by Sanji, 16 September 2014 - 04:30 PM.

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#59 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:32 PM

No, he said "hardening" or whatever. An absolute clear hint of him using a form of defense was given.
 
Luffy looked sort of bad against Doflamingo as well. Luffy even looked sort of bad against CC. But Luffy had his fights, and will have his fight this arc, so he can clear that sort of bad perspective. That's what Sanji lacks.

So why can't he use invisible Haki without raising anything?

 

Luffy was able to get a hit, and he will eventually win (with whatever necessary circumstances). He never looked weaker than CC. I acknowledge that Sanji lacks these fights, hence why I don't consider him a monster right now. That doesn't mean he is incapable of becoming one once he clears his name.



#60 Sanji

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:44 PM

So why can't he use invisible Haki without raising anything?

 

Luffy was able to get a hit, and he will eventually win (with whatever necessary circumstances). He never looked weaker than CC. I acknowledge that Sanji lacks these fights, hence why I don't consider him a monster right now. That doesn't mean he is incapable of becoming one once he clears his name.

 

Because no hint was given that he did anything.

 

CC was still weaker than Vergo. Vergo was the guy that both CC and Doflamingo had confidence no one on that island can possibly defeat.

 

I disagree with that because Oda started the time skip with renewing the rivalry between Zoro and Sanji, and then having them equally matched against the Pacifista, and comparable against against the Krakken, and behind Luffy and defending him from Hodi's subordinates. In terms of portrayal Oda maintained the M3 with every opportunity.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Even their group pictures from every arc remain consistent with the Luffy - Zoro/Sanji portrayal in front of everyone else.


Edited by Sanji, 16 September 2014 - 04:45 PM.

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