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[Discussion] Most Overrated/Underrated Characters (Part 24)


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#1 Petite Fleur

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 12:28 PM

Previous Thread

 

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Last few posts;

I think you're talking about Law's physical weaknesses. The thing about your assumption, if I guessed correctly, is that we don't know what physical potential Law had. His DF powers, which he presumably got in childhood, enables him to focus on teleportation instead of physically moving through space. That focus on DF speed is why he is physically slower. We can't say that child Law could not have achieved the kind of physical strength and speed that we see Luffy or DD use. And he would've had to if he didn't have his DF. One thing that hints at Law's physical and mental potential is his mastery over haki. According to you: Law is weak; and yet he is capable of matching Smoker's haki, DD's haki - That shows that Law is not weak without his DF.

Anyway, hypothetical isolation of character and ability to gauge what's stronger helps my point that Law isn't perfect or undefeatable.

 

 

Again, I have no idea why you told me this. Has nothing to do with my post. If you think it does, you didn't read carefully or you did but didn't understand.

 

 

If you don't understand my post, then maybe you're not as clever as you spect people to be with some of your posts. You said it's freeze. And I said call it whatever you want, his point it's still true, so being it freeze doesn't really matter. So I tell you this cause you arethe one qho said that.
If you were just pointing out he is freeze and not ice, without taking his opinion into acount, just for claryfying things then I may not have answered you, but I don't think it causes you any problem. So either you don't really get why i wrote that for you, what surprises me, cause you usually supose people may understand some things on your posts which aren't totally clear, or you simply need to try making someone feel he has done something wrong once in a while so you feel you're doing well in the forums.

I don't understand your post, seriously, i think ypu are inteligent enough to get why I said that to you...

 

 

I don't know what ''spect'' is...

And the bold, which post is that? Though I have to know what ''spect'' is first, in case you're making things up...

 

 

 

precisely why I asked ''why are you telling me that?''. What the hell does that have anything to do with my post?

 

 

 

I did take his opinion into account. So what are you trying to say?

 

 

 

Quoting people with stuff unrelated with their post is not causing problem? Okay, I know the button ''Post'' is there, you have your right to post and you can do whatever the hell you want with it no one can stop you, but I don't want to be disturbed by such thing when I go on the forum and think I'm going to talk and discuss something worth then all I get is something that should not even involve me. And I give you the benefit of the doubt cause I don't think ''this guy is a troll he must have wanted to mess with me''. I think you have a reason, so I ask in case.

 

 

 

Quite the opposite. I either make things very clear, or if I do not make it clear enough, I always ask people why they feel the need to assume it one way instead of asking me what I mean.

 

Never have I ''demanded'' people to understand all I write. If you have that illusion, then they must be the 1st example. Guys who don't read or read but don't seem to understand. It's like words go through one ear to the other...

 

 

 

I have no idea why you think of that possibility. You did it yourself or?

 

 

 

I'm afraid I don't.

 

 

No, because the Gura Gura no Mi doesn't let the user shatter the entire Earth. Whitebeard had that potential because of who he was, but it's not a default of the fruit.


Edited by Petite Fleur, 18 October 2014 - 01:16 PM.

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#2 Furinji Saiga

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 12:48 PM

dammit @Petite Fleur

 

I was hoping you would use this one.  :(

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#3 Fulmine

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 01:34 PM


No, because the Gura Gura no Mi doesn't let the user shatter the entire Earth. Whitebeard had that potential because of who he was, but it's not a default of the fruit.

Do we know this? What if anyone eats that fruit can make Quake like that?


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#4 DaEvilWithin

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 01:35 PM

Do we know this? What if anyone eats that fruit can make Quake like that?

We don't know.


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#5 Fulmine

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 01:39 PM

We don't know.

Stop giving perfect answer (to my liking)


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#6 Petite Fleur

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 01:39 PM

Do we know this? What if anyone eats that fruit can make Quake like that?

For the same reason that the world hasn't been accidentally destroyed before.


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#7 Fulmine

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 01:47 PM

For the same reason that the world hasn't been accidentally destroyed before.

Huh? You mean you were saying ''destroy Earth'' in one move? Cause you said ''WB had that potential'' and we never see WB destroyed Earth so...

 

Anw, that could be because WB or anyone prior user had perfect control fast (like how Logia can turn on and off flawlessly without burning their clothes or freezing it etc.). I'm talking about your post literally here. If you said ''it can be used like we've seen in the War'' then okay, maybe that's cause WB being WB. But cause you mentioned ''destroy Earth'' and ''potential'' then let say if the user does not have perfect control and is too slow to master it but still stupid enough to use it, then probably all users can destroy Earth, WB or not.


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#8 Petite Fleur

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 01:59 PM


Huh? You mean you were saying ''destroy Earth'' in one move? Cause you said ''WB had that potential'' and we never see WB destroyed Earth so...

WB could threaten the Earth, but my response was to a post where it's stated that the fruit could shatter it. That leaves the implication of "one move". WB is the only one with the potential to threaten the earth with the fruit, and that comes from more than just having it. 3:

 


Anw, that could be because WB or anyone prior user had perfect control fast (like how Logia can turn on and off flawlessly without burning their clothes or freezing it etc.).

 

Which means it isn't a passive trait.

 


But cause you mentioned ''destroy Earth'' and ''potential'' then let say if the user does not have perfect control and is too slow to master it but still stupid enough to use it, then probably all users can destroy Earth, WB or not.

 

I'm saying that potential lies with the person, not the fruit. They don't have to train to keep the Earth safe, but the opposite if that is their intention.


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#9 Fulmine

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 02:15 PM


Which means it isn't a passive trait.

The control. Not the destructiveness.

 


WB could threaten the Earth, but my response was to a post where it's stated that the fruit could shatter it. That leaves the implication of "one move". WB is the only one with the potential to threaten the earth with the fruit, and that comes from more than just having it. 3:

Which comes to my original question again: How do you know? My point is WB being WB may actually mean the opposite: that he can use it so that it does not destroy randomly. The Earth-shattering may be inherent for all we know.

 


I'm saying that potential lies with the person, not the fruit. They don't have to train to keep the Earth safe, but the opposite if that is their intention.

I was actually saying the opposite. They trained to make the Earth safe. IN other words, WB may have either used to destroy the whole Earth which defeated his purpose or used it only at...say, 3%?


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#10 Petite Fleur

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 02:19 PM


The control. Not the destructiveness.

 

Law's use of his fruit implies that the power of it draws from the user, so destructiveness too.

 


How do you know?

 

Law's fruit draws off of his stamina to do crazy shit, implying that other fruits are the same We know that CoA can be put into incorporeal things(Zoro and Tashigi vs. Monet) which means it can become stronger from that.

 


They trained to make the Earth safe.

 

How would they know that they have to? 3:


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#11 Fulmine

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 02:25 PM


Law's use of his fruit implies that the power of it draws from the user, so destructiveness too.

 

 

 


Law's fruit draws off of his stamina to do crazy shit, implying that other fruits are the same We know that CoA can be put into incorporeal things(Zoro and Tashigi vs. Monet) which means it can become stronger from that.

Okay, 1st, why talk about stamina? I'm talking about control

 

2nd: Huh? WB's fruit is related to Law's fruit?

Bold: Why do you think it implies that? I know Caesar said so, too but that may be just those 2.

 

 

 

 


How would they know that they have to? 3:

That's poorly worded. Not as in they train with that grand purpose in mind. More like they know they have to control better or else they will destroy stuffs indiscriminately and in doing so it happens that they won't destroy Earth?


Edited by Fulmine, 18 October 2014 - 02:25 PM.

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#12 Petite Fleur

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 02:28 PM


why talk about stamina? I'm talking about control

 

Stamina reflects power. So having "the strength to destroy all the things" requires power.

 


2nd: Huh? WB's fruit is related to Law's fruit?
Bold: Why do you think it implies that? I know Caesar said so, too but that may be just those 2.

 

It makes more sense if the fruits all do, instead of the opposite.

 


That's poorly worded. Not as in they train with that grand purpose in mind. More like they know they have to control better or else they will destroy stuffs indiscriminately and in doing so it happens that they won't destroy Earth?

 

Are you still talking about all fruits, or are you now talking about WB's fruits previous owners?


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#13 Fulmine

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 02:37 PM


Stamina reflects power. So having "the strength to destroy all the things" requires power.

I don't follow. You mean the larger the quake the more it consumes stamina from the user? That's a fair guess but what if it isn't?

 


It makes more sense if the fruits all do, instead of the opposite.

Why does it make more sense?

 


Are you still talking about all fruits, or are you now talking about WB's fruits previous owners?

The latter, and WB himself, too. The whole thing starts with WB and his Gura after all.


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#14 Petite Fleur

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 02:47 PM


I don't follow. You mean the larger the quake the more it consumes stamina from the user? That's a fair guess but what if it isn't?

 

Then I'm wrong. If it is, then I'm right. 3:

 


Why does it make more sense?

 

It makes the rule pointless. The unique ways fruits were used in the past were all reflective of the user. Impel Down's Zoan fruit users were all Awakened users, Chopper used drugs to alter the forms and shapes his own Zoan fruit could take, etc. If this is one of those things in the form of a rule, it serves no purpose for it to just be one that Law has to obey.

 


The latter, and WB himself, too. The whole thing starts with WB and his Gura after all.

 

I'm asking because the original point here was about "all other fruits", so I want to make sure that when I say "the world is not nearly destroyed enough for that, furthermore people like Enel had to use things like Maxim to boost themselves to dangerous levels" you don't go "I meant only the Gura Gura no Mi" to which I'd also say "the world is still not destroyed enough for that." Someone would have to accidentally blow everything ever up for other people to go "well, I will not ever do that" as a standard of practice that all humans understand and accept. (or most, anyways)


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#15 Fulmine

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 03:07 PM


It makes the rule pointless

It's an established rule or just a pattern YOU personally perceive as rule? I think the latter.

 


The unique ways fruits were used in the past were all reflective of the user


If this is one of those things in the form of a rule, it serves no purpose for it to just be one that Law has to obey.

Does not make the next one follow that though.

Like, in Caesar's case it may be a reflection but in Law's case it is just the fruit's inherent characteristic?

 

 


Someone would have to accidentally blow everything ever up for other people to go "well, I will not ever do that" as a standard of practice that all humans understand and accept. (or most, anyways)

Not necessary. As I said, they may have destroyed a town accidentally and that's enough to start control it.


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#16 Petite Fleur

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 03:17 PM


It's an established rule or just a pattern YOU personally perceive as rule? I think the latter.

 

I personally believe it's being established as one, yes. I also believe it'll be confirmed later when we meet Vega.

 


Does not make the next one follow that though.
Like, in Caesar's case it may be a reflection but in Law's case it is just the fruit's inherent characteristic?

 

Can you articulate your question better, please?

 


Not necessary. As I said, they may have destroyed a town accidentally and that's enough to start control it.

 

Then why do some people(Enel) need to get stronger(Maxim) in order to do real destruction?


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#17 Fulmine

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 03:36 PM


Then why do some people(Enel) need to get stronger(Maxim) in order to do real destruction?

I believe I'm still talking about Gura

 


Can you articulate your question better, please?

I mean in Law's case the stamina depletion may be his fruit's fault.


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#18 Petite Fleur

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 03:52 PM


I believe I'm still talking about Gura

 

So you believe just that one fruit itself is exceptional? Is this for a case on why the fruit itself should be OP? 3:

 


I mean in Law's case the stamina depletion may be his fruit's fault.

 

I got that, but I wasn't sure how the Caesar bit related at all.


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#19 Nmaan

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 04:16 PM

Actually given all the examples of fruits that don't seem to drain stamina (which are basically all fruits except Law and Caesar), Chopper being the most prominent example, he's constantly in his half turned state and yet doesn't seem to get tired from, it's far more likely that Law's and Caesar's fruits are the exception at the moment anyway.

 

We've never seen Luffy tired from just stretching, or just being rubber.

We've never seen Chopper tired from staying in his half man half deer state.

We don't see Brook tired from being Brook.

We haven't seen Croc tired from using his fruit

We haven't seen DD tired from using his.

 

The only people as far as I can remember who we've seen directly link stamina to their fruit are Caesar and Law.


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#20 Petite Fleur

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 04:21 PM


Actually given all the examples of fruits that don't seem to drain stamina (which are basically all fruits except Law and Caesar), Chopper being the most prominent example, he's constantly in his half turned state and yet doesn't seem to get tired from, it's far more likely that Law's and Caesar's fruits are the exception at the moment anyway.

 

Not seeing it doesn't mean that it's not there, though. Hence my statement about it being established and waiting to be confirmed. 3:


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