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[Item] Devil Fruits: Types and General Discussions (Part 2)


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#1 Petite Fleur

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 12:10 AM

Previous Thread Here

 

Last few posts;

He can solidify his smoke. Which makes me think Oda will make Smoker stronger in the future to live up to the parallel ''being a Garp figure to Luffy just like what Garp was to Rogers'' because, indeed, he has not made the fullest of his fruit.

 

So far Smoker relies on his jutte and the mobility of his fruit, which honestly I think any Logia can do. They just turn into elemental form and hover above the ground. Croc did that. Akainu did that. In theory probably all Logia can do that except Kizaru who has to move in perfectly straight light line and BB, who can't turn intangible (maybe in complete darkness, he can). Only that they don't choose it to be their main forte. In short, most Logia so far choose to take advantage of the fact that Logia can produce massive amount of element (I do hope when Croc comes back, he will master that mobility aspect of Logia and becomes super fast, speed is something he kinda lacks in his arsenal compared to other top fighters) while Smoker chooses to use the speed.

 

Which brings me back to the main point: Smoker has not mastered his fruit. He hasn't used everything it has to offer. Imagine now he also goes the ''massive amount'' route. He can produce big smoke fist(s) like Akainu, solidify it(them), then coat them in Hardening CoA. There we have Smoker's own version of Elephant Gattling Gun, except that he can produce many fists, not just 2 like Luffy. Akainu may not need Hardening because if he coats his magma fist, it would defeat the purpose of using the heat from the magma (unless with superb mastery of CoA, the heat can still fully emit through the Hardening layer which is best of both worlds, really). However, Smoker's smoke does not have destructiveness or deadliness like that to begin with, so coating his smoke fist in Hardening does not make him lose any advantage.

 

But on the other hand, Oda can also make Smoker's fruit like Kizaru's or BB's, namely it just has something that makes it unable to perform certain feats that should be possible for most Logia.

 

 

Assuming Smoker will get significantly stronger, which is not a given, at that point, Luffy will be significantly stronger as well, so people should really move away from that parallel.

 

 

That's just side point. Main point is his fruit. I myself don't think Smoker will be that kind of parallel, either. At best he can be parallel in terms of spirit, chasing Luffy everywhere but power level-wise...

 

Plus the fact that Hunter is not really an animal robs him off his chance of becoming Admiral-level already :P  Leave it to White Stallion Hakuba :hurr:

 

 

ya i dont know what is wrong with you guys, sure smoker got beat by a few high level opponents. but look at them

 

law- probably around luffy's level only with a much more powerful DF

CC- same guy that beat luffy twice.....kinda twice

vergo- ify here, smoker kinda threw this one on purpose

DD- I am sorry, did you miss that he has been doing the same thing to Luffy and law this entire arc

 

 

So far i have been impressed with smoker, in tashigi's body he hurt luffy, and in his body he was able to easily keep pace with luffy, something that made luffy get at a lose for breath, somker was fine. And something subtle, apparently in his body he would of had the destructive power to open the shutters on the lab, something that took zoro AND kinemon to do.

 

 

That's just a strength of his fruit. And it has zero application if they fight because fighting is not racing and in fighting (with specific battleground), Luffy only needs to do short burst of Gear 2 instead of running that long distance or stretch his arms to reach Smoker.

 

 

 

 

True. So? At best you can argue he's in same tier but not exactly as strong. He still lost to Law in a straight up fight.

 


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#2 Ganderath

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 01:22 AM

So what would happen if you got a Swim fruit?


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#3 Furinji Saiga

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 01:31 AM

So what would happen if you got a Swim fruit?


We should find out soon enough.
It is the DF Shanks has. :3
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#4 Ganderath

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 01:34 AM

We should find out soon enough.
It is the DF Shanks has. :3

Literally who is that?

 

What's his lap speed?

 

Does he even Olympics?


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#5 ShinmenTakezo

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 09:18 AM

So what would happen if you got a Swim fruit?

 

You would be hard-boiled


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#6 Petite Fleur

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 12:40 PM

We should find out soon enough.
It is the DF Shanks has. :3

Shanks probably doesn't have a DF, going off of his dialogue on chapter one.


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#7 Ganderath

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 12:41 PM

Shanks probably doesn't have a DF, going off of his dialogue on chapter one.


Lamb shanks are a meat, Fleur.

Not a fruit.

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#8 Sloan

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 09:26 PM

I wonder if their's a Fruit Fruit Fruit.

The user of the Fruit Fruit Fruit could have the ability to to drain the nutrition in a person's body, or give them too much of it. Similar to a Logia if you hit the Fruit Fruit Fruit it's user can instantly decrease/increase your nutrition levels in your body. The Fruit Fruit Fruit also let's you summon fruit trees and bushes that if eaten replenish your stamina and strength similar to The Tree of Might's fruits in the third Dragonball Z movie, you can only eat it once a day as it's too dangerous on the body and shaves life similar to Gear second.

The Fruit Fruit Fruit user also has a secret ability where the user can turn himself into a fruit for stealth purposes.

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#9 RhetoricalRabbit

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 08:27 AM

 

So far Smoker relies on his jutte and the mobility of his fruit, which honestly I think any Logia can do. They just turn into elemental form and hover above the ground. Croc did that. Akainu did that. In theory probably all Logia can do that

 

Akainu may not need Hardening because if he coats his magma fist, it would defeat the purpose of using the heat from the magma (unless with superb mastery of CoA, the heat can still fully emit through the Hardening layer which is best of both worlds, really). However, Smoker's smoke does not have destructiveness or deadliness like that to begin with, so coating his smoke fist in Hardening does not make him lose any advantage.

 

Where did Croc and Akainu float? Croc I can half give you as he traveled on the winds as a sandstorm but Akainu?

 Regardless - in my interpretation at least - the 'hover' aspect is intrinsic to Smoker's fruit ability, not that it's a logia. Smoke doesn't typically lay flat on the ground.

 

Evidence that hardening is possible on magma and smoke? Or that it's been shown on any DF created intangible? 

 

And Smoker's fruit has not been shown to be deadly. It's HIGHLY likely that it is possible as smoke is deadly. He may just choose not to do it.

 

 

 

 

I still very much want to see CC and Smoker go at it. By a 'logic' based analysis, CC should be able to fully control Smoker as he can control gas.



#10 Fulmine

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:24 AM


Where did Croc and Akainu float? Croc I can half give you as he traveled on the winds as a sandstorm but Akainu?

Croc: When he chased the one he thought was Sanji (? Not sure. Maybe Carue?) in Alabasta. In Impel Down right before when he sucked the door dry the first time and when he attacked WB. And no, I don't talk about the sandstorm.

Akainu: in the War since trying to kill Luffy and Ace stepped in.

 

 


Regardless - in my interpretation at least - the 'hover' aspect is intrinsic to Smoker's fruit ability, not that it's a logia. Smoke doesn't typically lay flat on the ground.

Nah, Croc did it. Akainu did it.

Lay flat on the ground? Literally or...? And who did that?

 

 


Evidence that hardening is possible on magma and smoke? Or that it's been shown on any DF created intangible?

Smoker:...it's right there in the same paragraph. Do you read all of them? Partly quoting me then ask for reason stated one line above what you quoted?

 

Whether Akainu can do that is besides the point. My point is ''would it serve him anything if he does that'' only.

 

 


And Smoker's fruit has not been shown to be deadly.

 

It's HIGHLY likely that it is possible as smoke is deadly. He may just choose not to do it.

Precisely. All I have to go with for now. I mean it' a fantasy world. Even if someone uses flame but for a long time never burns anything, IMO we will just have to go with ''maybe his fantasy flame can't burn'' and keep the obvious, common sense ''flame burns'' of the real world in the back of our head in that ''possibility'' room.

 

What do you want to tell me with that line?


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#11 RhetoricalRabbit

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 01:51 PM

Croc: When he chased the one he thought was Sanji (? Not sure. Maybe Carue?) in Alabasta. In Impel Down right before when he sucked the door dry the first time and when he attacked WB. And no, I don't talk about the sandstorm.

Akainu: in the War since trying to kill Luffy and Ace stepped in.

 

Nah, Croc did it. Akainu did it.

Lay flat on the ground? Literally or...? And who did that?

 

Smoker:...it's right there in the same paragraph. Do you read all of them? Partly quoting me then ask for reason stated one line above what you quoted?

 

Whether Akainu can do that is besides the point. My point is ''would it serve him anything if he does that'' only.

 

Precisely. All I have to go with for now. I mean it' a fantasy world. Even if someone uses flame but for a long time never burns anything, IMO we will just have to go with ''maybe his fantasy flame can't burn'' and keep the obvious, common sense ''flame burns'' of the real world in the back of our head in that ''possibility'' room.

 

What do you want to tell me with that line?

 

No recollection of Croc ever chasing anyone as a sandcloud. Pages?  

Akainu tunneled under the ground. He didn't float.

 

Proof that they floated? Who did what?

 

If it was there I'd not ask for it. It wasn't there. I'm asking for it.

 

Your point has changed then as it's been called into question? Nice.

 

 

Precisely ... you're wrong? Then why have you just tried to contest?

 

 Which line?



#12 Madara D Dragon

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 05:10 PM

Sorry to get into the discussion but i'm bored  :heehee:

1-The "crocodile going after MrPrince" (by the way, it was chopper) I found is this: http://www.mangastre...74-page-17.html

2- "crocodile doing that after flying" i found is this: http://www.mangastre...541-page-9.html

3-The akainu vs ace i found is this, but (even if I have in mind another image in which akainu has a kind of magma tail) this could be akainu just jumping: http://www.mangastre...73-page-14.html

BUT i think I found what you ( @Fulmine ) were talking about with Akainu: http://www.mangastre...575-page-3.html

 

I simply was bored and wanted to help in the discussion with links, hope it's useful  :D


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#13 Fulmine

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 09:07 PM


No recollection of Croc ever chasing anyone as a sandcloud. Pages?

Madara's post right under yours.

 

 

 


Akainu tunneled under the ground.

same as above. Madara's post

And I didn't say anything about tunneling underground. What makes you say that?

 

 

 

 

He didn't float
Proof that they floated?

float? I used ''hover'' which I think means different (if it's ''float'', not even Smoker fits the bill IMO. He also always launches his body forwards by turning his lower body into smoke and speed up from the ground). But that aside, anw, Madara found the page for me.

 

 

 

 


Who did what?

the ''lay flat on the ground''. I don't know why you mentioned that and have no idea what you were referring to.

 

 

 

 


If it was there I'd not ask for it. It wasn't there. I'm asking for it.

I mentioned like at least 2 times in that post (one is a sentence in the same ''Akainu coating magma'' paragraph you quoted...) that Smoker can solidify his smoke. So it's not tangible anymore. From there, he can just imbue CoA or Hardening just like people imbue them on their weapons.

 

 

 

 


Your point has changed then as it's been called into question? Nice.

No. I already explained in the my original post why coating magma with Hardening might defeat the purpose. You see it with your eyes...you even quoted it here. Second paragraph, first sentence...

We don't know yet whether Logia element can be coated with invisibleCoA/Hardening but that's not important. My sentence simply means ''even if it can be, Akainu doing that might defeat the purpose of his magma fist''.

 

You can argue ''the way you say it sounds like you already assume coating Logia element in CoA is a given'', which is fair cause it's ambiguous, but since that's not what I mean, exactly why I'm explaining/clarifying to you with my last post and this one. Don't know why you think it's changed.

 

 

 

 


Precisely ... you're wrong?

No. Didn't you agree with me Smoker's fruit has not been shown to be deadly? You said it yourself below:

 

 


And Smoker's fruit has not been shown to be deadly

...

 

 

 

 

 


Then why have you just tried to contest?

contest what? I simply explained why I don't think of Smoker's fruit being deadly anything more than a mere possibility that has zero support hence why in my original post I don't count his ''deadliness'' that has not been shown. I didn't contest or refute anything from you...

 

 

 


Which line?

this one:

 

 


It's HIGHLY likely that it is possible as smoke is deadly. He may just choose not to do it.

What do you want to tell me with that? I fail to see why it's relevant to the matter at hand.


 

BUT i think I found what you ( @Fulmine ) were talking about with Akainu: http://www.mangastre...575-page-3.html

Yeah, that's the one.


Edited by Fulmine, 24 November 2014 - 09:08 PM.

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#14 RhetoricalRabbit

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 12:02 AM

And I didn't say anything about tunneling underground. What makes you say that?

 

float? I used ''hover'' which I think means different (if it's ''float'', not even Smoker fits the bill IMO. He also always launches his body forwards by turning his lower body into smoke and speed up from the ground). But that aside, anw, Madara found the page for me.

 

the ''lay flat on the ground''. I don't know why you mentioned that and have no idea what you were referring to.

 

I mentioned like at least 2 times in that post (one is a sentence in the same ''Akainu coating magma'' paragraph you quoted...) that Smoker can solidify his smoke. So it's not tangible anymore. From there, he can just imbue CoA or Hardening just like people imbue them on their weapons.

 

No. I already explained in the my original post why coating magma with Hardening might defeat the purpose. You see it with your eyes...you even quoted it here. Second paragraph, first sentence...

We don't know yet whether Logia element can be coated with invisibleCoA/Hardening but that's not important. My sentence simply means ''even if it can be, Akainu doing that might defeat the purpose of his magma fist''.

 

You can argue ''the way you say it sounds like you already assume coating Logia element in CoA is a given'', which is fair cause it's ambiguous, but since that's not what I mean, exactly why I'm explaining/clarifying to you with my last post and this one. Don't know why you think it's changed.

 

No. Didn't you agree with me Smoker's fruit has not been shown to be deadly? You said it yourself below:

 

contest what? I simply explained why I don't think of Smoker's fruit being deadly anything more than a mere possibility that has zero support hence why in my original post I don't count his ''deadliness'' that has not been shown. I didn't contest or refute anything from you...

 

Because Akainu has traveled by tunneling, not by floating.

Float and hover are synonymous. And "launches" is correct. He's used his fruit as a springboard there, which clearly you interpret the same as me based on your word choice. That's not floating or flying. 

 

Smoke does not lay on the ground. It floats and broils.

 

Solid = tangible ... 

   Evidence that he "can just imbue" "just like people imbue them on their weapons" ?

 

That's not the point. Which is why I quoted it and picked apart a separate issue. Do try and keep up pl0x ¬_¬ 

And you go against yourself with your comments on Smoker. If you can't even keep up with yourself you've no call to be snippy and derisive towards me.

 

You said that Smoker's fruit was not lethal. I'm pointing out that it can be.  You said it was NOT deadly. Not that it has not been shown to be deadly. Those are two entirely different things.

Contest my correction of you. Which you have done. Your refutation is you contesting the matter ... They're synonyms too.



#15 Fulmine

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 12:45 AM


Because Akainu has traveled by tunneling, not by floating.

When he chases Jinbe, yeah, but I didn't say anything about that instance. The one I talked about is the one in Madara's link

 

 


Float and hover are synonymous.

not exactly the same though. But then again maybe I used ''hover'' wrong.

 

 


And "launches" is correct. He's used his fruit as a springboard there, which clearly you interpret the same as me based on your word choice. That's not floating or flying.

Yeah but the point is other Logia can also do these to increase mobility like Smoker. What word to use aside, that means Logia other than Smoker can do that so my point stands anw.

 

 


Smoke does not lay on the ground. It floats and broils.

Sure. But we're talking about Smoker and he fights just a bit above the ground, not flying 20m high like DD. He can go higher, of course, and probably stay longer in the air but ''who can go higher and stay longer'' has never been my point regarding Logia.

 

 


Solid = tangible ...

Oh yeah, intangible, my bad. So it's not intangible anymore and is just like rock or iron and you can imbue CoA on it

 

 


Evidence that he "can just imbue" "just like people imbue them on their weapons" ?

Because the smoke is solid now?

 

 


That's not the point. Which is why I quoted it and picked apart a separate issue. Do try and keep up pl0x ¬_¬

What's not the point?

 

 


And you go against yourself with your comments on Smoker.

If you can't even keep up with yourself you've no call to be snippy and derisive towards me.

The tangible thing? I correct that above.

I was derisive and snippy when?

 

 


You said that Smoker's fruit was not lethal. I'm pointing out that it can be

okay. But Smoker does not show that for whatever reason so...better keep it as mere possibility.

 

 


You said it was NOT deadly. Not that it has not been shown to be deadly. Those are two entirely different things.

True, so? In this case it's the same so far in the manga. In real life flame can be much higher in temperature than magma, just like smoke can be deadly (lung cancer?, hard to breath, teary eyes etc. Even more so in confined space). But Ace lost and got burned to Akainu anw. Whether the fruit can do something in theory does not matter. What matters is ''do the users show it?''. Ace doesn't. Smoker doesn't. Sabo hasn't. So I don't count it. My original post is built on what we've seen so far. As I said, it's not a ''considering possibility'' type of post. If it is and we simply discuss ''can it do that?'' then sure, it's possible, I agree.

 

 


Contest my correction of you. Which you have done. Your refutation is you contesting the matter ... They're synonyms too.

I didn't contest or refute. I was just explaining why I said what I said. Your correction is a different matter.


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#16 ShinmenTakezo

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 12:46 AM

Sorry to get into the discussion but i'm bored  :heehee:

1-The "crocodile going after MrPrince" (by the way, it was chopper) I found is this: http://www.mangastre...74-page-17.html

2- "crocodile doing that after flying" i found is this: http://www.mangastre...541-page-9.html

3-The akainu vs ace i found is this, but (even if I have in mind another image in which akainu has a kind of magma tail) this could be akainu just jumping: http://www.mangastre...73-page-14.html

BUT i think I found what you ( @Fulmine ) were talking about with Akainu: http://www.mangastre...575-page-3.html

 

I simply was bored and wanted to help in the discussion with links, hope it's useful  :D

 

It´s not the same, Akainu is still connected to the ground, obviously he can move in his logia form. From what i have seen so far, the logias who can float/fly have elements that usually travel through the air as well, as stupid as it sounds


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#17 Madara D Dragon

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 01:09 AM

It´s not the same, Akainu is still connected to the ground, obviously he can move in his logia form. From what i have seen so far, the logias who can float/fly have elements that usually travel through the air as well, as stupid as it sounds

Yup, you're right, the thing is I wadn't trying to argue anything in favour or against anyone, i was just posting the pages to help the discussion. In fact I didn't even read the discussion properlly when I posted the pictures :D
But its true, Akainu, as its obvious because of his element, can't fly, float, he kind of uses his magma to push himself further.

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#18 RhetoricalRabbit

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 01:15 AM

When he chases Jinbe, yeah, but I didn't say anything about that instance. The one I talked about is the one in Madara's link

 

not exactly the same though. But then again maybe I used ''hover'' wrong.

 

Yeah but the point is other Logia can also do these to increase mobility like Smoker. What word to use aside, that means Logia other than Smoker can do that so my point stands anw.

 

Sure. But we're talking about Smoker and he fights just a bit above the ground, not flying 20m high like DD. He can go higher, of course, and probably stay longer in the air but ''who can go higher and stay longer'' has never been my point regarding Logia.

 

Oh yeah, intangible, my bad. So it's not intangible anymore and is just like rock or iron and you can imbue CoA on it

 

Because the smoke is solid now?

 

What's not the point?

 

The tangible thing? I correct that above.

I was derisive and snippy when?

 

okay. But Smoker does not show that for whatever reason so...better keep it as mere possibility.

 

True, so? In this case it's the same so far in the manga. In real life flame can be much higher in temperature than magma, just like smoke can be deadly (lung cancer?, hard to breath, teary eyes etc. Even more so in confined space). But Ace lost and got burned to Akainu anw. Whether the fruit can do something in theory does not matter. What matters is ''do the users show it?''. Ace doesn't. Smoker doesn't. Sabo hasn't. So I don't count it. My original post is built on what we've seen so far. As I said, it's not a ''considering possibility'' type of post. If it is and we simply discuss ''can it do that?'' then sure, it's possible, I agree.

 

I didn't contest or refute. I was just explaining why I said what I said. Your correction is a different matter.

 

No, but Akainu never floated. The only time he was shown to travel is underground. The image shown is him jumping to attack.

Synonymous means the same. 

They cannot do these things ... So your point is a farce and patently untrue. Smoker is the only logia who has been shown to emerge from his element and attack in the manner that he has.

Height and duration were not factors in my evidencing why your assumption is baseless. 

"and you can imbue CoA on it" - again, proof ... ? It being 'solid' is not proof.

Whatever it was that you quoted and attempted to use to wrangle instability in my words. 

In your words and replies. The ellipses and emoticons are the most clear cut to evidence.

Smoker has not shown CoA on his smoke either yet you're asserting that as factual over a possibility. Double standards much? :rolleyes: 

So ... your point is trash ...

Burning hotter wouldn't save a flame from being extinguished by magma. Magma can cut out the oxygen. If "do the users show it?" is your mantra, then all that you've said is to be ignored ... :<_<: 

You are contesting and refuting ... 

 

It´s not the same, Akainu is still connected to the ground, obviously he can move in his logia form. From what i have seen so far, the logias who can float/fly have elements that usually travel through the air as well, as stupid as it sounds

 

Just Smoker and CC to my knowledge? I know that Crocodile has done it, but only in Alabasta as he merged with the sandstorms iirc.



#19 ShinmenTakezo

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 01:51 AM

No, but Akainu never floated. The only time he was shown to travel is underground. The image shown is him jumping to attack.

Synonymous means the same. 

They cannot do these things ... So your point is a farce and patently untrue. Smoker is the only logia who has been shown to emerge from his element and attack in the manner that he has.

Height and duration were not factors in my evidencing why your assumption is baseless. 

"and you can imbue CoA on it" - again, proof ... ? It being 'solid' is not proof.

Whatever it was that you quoted and attempted to use to wrangle instability in my words. 

In your words and replies. The ellipses and emoticons are the most clear cut to evidence.

Smoker has not shown CoA on his smoke either yet you're asserting that as factual over a possibility. Double standards much? :rolleyes:

So ... your point is trash ...

Burning hotter wouldn't save a flame from being extinguished by magma. Magma can cut out the oxygen. If "do the users show it?" is your mantra, then all that you've said is to be ignored ... :<_<:

You are contesting and refuting ... 

 

 

Just Smoker and CC to my knowledge? I know that Crocodile has done it, but only in Alabasta as he merged with the sandstorms iirc.

 

Look Madara´s post above, he has linked to the panels in which Croc does it, even outside of Alabasta

 

Btw, don´t forget Kizaru and Enel


Edited by ShinmenTakezo, 25 November 2014 - 01:52 AM.

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#20 RhetoricalRabbit

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 02:08 AM

Look Madara´s post above, he has linked to the panels in which Croc does it, even outside of Alabasta

 

Btw, don´t forget Kizaru and Enel

 

I've seen them and there is no evidence that he's travelling beyond jumping.

 

Kizaru and Enel have floated where?






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