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[Item] Devil Fruits: Types and General Discussions (Part 2)


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#441 Abaroxa

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 09:46 AM

Wow just realized the mud fruit is the superior version of crocs sand fruit. *mind blown*

no it isn't

#442 Chillman

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 10:50 AM

Can't mud soak sand and make Croc useless?



#443 captain kidd

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 06:37 PM

@captain kidd
I wouldn't be so fast as to say the fruits were wasted.
The noro fruit did it an awesome job at making foxy more interesting. I like foxy as he was very funny, so I have nothing to complain here.
In a combat perspective it wouldn't fit Oda style of fighting. I could see kubo or kishimoto doing a better job in fighting style.
Kishimoto would would make its user the new fastest man in the world. Something like the speedsters in fairytail.
Kubo would make its user be the guy that had a lot of projectiles aimed everywhere and as soon as the enemy passed a hit point he would return the projectiles to the original speed. If the enemy managed to pass the set traps and was about to it the user, I can see the user saying "I never said I could only slow down objects", and then killing the slowed enemy in discontent as he never acknowledged the sneaky nature of his ability.


Lol are you kidding? Kishi wouldnt be able to stop himself. He would make the noro ability the final form of the sharingun. Once you have an eternal mango (I know what I said) sharingun then you have to take your old eyes that had the light fade from them. Transplant them into another uchia, wait 10 years, implant one back into your head and the other into your son's head, then after a year switch, and finally after another year implant both those once blind eyes into your head and you will unlock the eternal, permanent forever, not stopping, mango sharingun. This one lets you emit noro beams.

As for kubo, the noro beam is just where the ability starts! After ichigo is able to keep up with the beam then it turns out this noro power isnt limited to beams, the user can leave noro particles lying around and enemies activate them like land mines! After ichigo gets around that then it is revealed it isnt noro particles at all, they are actually little specks of the past that cling to the present and this create a disruption in space time! Oh no ichigo is defeated, it is ok I dont care about my main character! Send in kenpachi! Oh no the rips in space time are actually not that at all, the noro user is actually the god of all space and time! Oh no kenpachi was defeated? Or was he? Oh wait the story was cancled..... sorry guys.

Haha and since you mentioned hiro from FT. This is the noro beam in FT...... um.... actually the noro beam is kinda something out of FT already. You mentioned race and in the final arc there was that girl that could pause time. So the noro beam is under powered compared to alot of FT characters. Lol the noro beam. The most powerful ability in OP would be a joke in FT, natsu wouldnt even need to use friendship power to punch through to, he would just laugh and beat up the user.
 
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#444 Abaroxa

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 03:13 AM

Lol are you kidding? Kishi wouldnt be able to stop himself. He would make the noro ability the final form of the sharingun. Once you have an eternal mango (I know what I said) sharingun then you have to take your old eyes that had the light fade from them. Transplant them into another uchia, wait 10 years, implant one back into your head and the other into your son's head, then after a year switch, and finally after another year implant both those once blind eyes into your head and you will unlock the eternal, permanent forever, not stopping, mango sharingun. This one lets you emit noro beams.

As for kubo, the noro beam is just where the ability starts! After ichigo is able to keep up with the beam then it turns out this noro power isnt limited to beams, the user can leave noro particles lying around and enemies activate them like land mines! After ichigo gets around that then it is revealed it isnt noro particles at all, they are actually little specks of the past that cling to the present and this create a disruption in space time! Oh no ichigo is defeated, it is ok I dont care about my main character! Send in kenpachi! Oh no the rips in space time are actually not that at all, the noro user is actually the god of all space and time! Oh no kenpachi was defeated? Or was he? Oh wait the story was cancled..... sorry guys.

Haha and since you mentioned hiro from FT. This is the noro beam in FT...... um.... actually the noro beam is kinda something out of FT already. You mentioned race and in the final arc there was that girl that could pause time. So the noro beam is under powered compared to alot of FT characters. Lol the noro beam. The most powerful ability in OP would be a joke in FT, natsu wouldnt even need to use friendship power to punch through to, he would just laugh and beat up the user.

 

I loled too hard.

You just showed how kishi would give this power to sharingan users, kubo would make the power too op until fighting a gotei13 captain and hiro would do what he does best... nakama power. With that said, we know the most successful writers styles and how they also f*ck up power assignment.

Oda style is the oddest one because for him its not about the power its about the character. We have a main character where is main power is rubber.. RUBBER. We have a guy that winks people away and turns men into women. First time nami used clima tact I didn't get it and now 10 years later, I'm still don't get.

Oda is awesome at making "weak" fruits into raging monstrosities. DD had the string fruit and yet he has the best technique in the series; birdcage.

If you wan't to make a better use of a fruit, kill the character using it and assign it to someone else.

The question is not whether a fruit is being underused, the question is there any character being underused?

 

Since we are talking about powers; Do you think the power structure/balance in the op-verse is broken?



#445 captain kidd

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 06:16 AM

I loled too hard.
You just showed how kishi would give this power to sharingan users, kubo would make the power too op until fighting a gotei13 captain and hiro would do what he does best... nakama power. With that said, we know the most successful writers styles and how they also f*ck up power assignment.
Oda style is the oddest one because for him its not about the power its about the character. We have a main character where is main power is rubber.. RUBBER. We have a guy that winks people away and turns men into women. First time nami used clima tact I didn't get it and now 10 years later, I'm still don't get.
Oda is awesome at making "weak" fruits into raging monstrosities. DD had the string fruit and yet he has the best technique in the series; birdcage.
If you wan't to make a better use of a fruit, kill the character using it and assign it to someone else.
The question is not whether a fruit is being underused, the question is there any character being underused?

Since we are talking about powers; Do you think the power structure/balance in the op-verse is broken?


Wow you asked this question at a horrible time. Just know that everything I am about to say, I will take every word of it back depending on the result of luffy's "training" in prison to fight kiadou.

That being said. No I dont think the OP power system is broken. One of the most important things to do in debate is show someone what right looks like. And in this case I can not point to a major publication's power structure and call it better/more stable.
DBZ is just nonsense. Supersayan is a powerup that goku and vegeta get just by being.... angry? Or selfless? Well they get it somehow. And the second a sayan unlocks yellow hair he is stronger then all natural born fighters (freeza was the stronger) except other sayan, just by....feeling angry? I could forgive that nonsense if it wasnt for the fact that children can apparently unlock supersayan.... also the training methods are completely inconsistent, goku trains under 100x gravity and gets a massive jump in power, vegeta does 400x and gets nothing. Goku and vegeta train for 1 day in the time chamber, they evolve to the next level, vegeta goes in a second day and.....nothing, he gains no 2nd massive jump in power....guess the time chamber only provides one? Also let's talk about how bullshit that whole arc was. All of a sudden goku started about "going beyond" supersayan....hey... why didnt you do that in the year leading up to the android arc loser? I will give vegeta a break he just unlocked supersayan....
So dbz is crazy and super is even worse. Somehow killian catches back up to the sayan... after being left in the dust from the namack arc.....

Bleach is even worse. Bleach is the poster child for bad and inconsistent power levels. Do I even need to talk about how power levels make no sense? Or their training methods always being ass pulls?

Naruto power levels are....better..... they are mostly consistent in practice, but the problem is when characters start talking. Loser 5 heart guy said he fought the first hokage.... who later on shows he is as strong as madara.... ya ok... and that is another thing. Madara was apparently weaker then the first hokage....what? Are you kidding me? The first hokage never showed us anything that could take on madara with the 9 tails.... oh and the damn tailed beasts, we cant forget the tailed beasts, these things started out as unstoppable gods so powerful that the 4th hokage had to use the reaper death seal to fight them..... by the end of the series obito has the power to control 6 people with the tailed beasts inside them and naruto guy and kakashi dont even care..... not a reaper death seal in sight.... and the worst part is madara, without any eyes, is able to get mauled by all 9 tailed beasts and only loses an arm. The 9 tails took q suicide move from the 4th but 9 beasts at once only took madara's arm.... nothing is consistent about naruto's power levels when you get down to it. The first time orochimaru summoned the 1st ands 2nd hokage.... they were not as powerful as they were eventually....
Oh and finally let's talk about guy this loser, not even talking about his final fate release.... oh hey remember the final gate release? Wasnt it supposed to give "the powers like that of a hokage" well when we eventually saw it..... it actually gave guy the powers of the strongest character we had seen up until that point... but more importantly guy fought....shark guy.... and had an easy time.... he had such an easy time I honestly think he could of just soloed pain. Oh no did I just say pain? The guy who defeated jarya and kakashi. BUT was then defeated by naruto?

And then I am not even going to touch FT. FT feels like reading 7 deadly sins, the main characters never have to worry about power, they will always have enough by believing in their friends more.

Oh and 7 deadly sins. What a horrible manga, the sins are so powerful reading the first arc was like reading the east blue arc in OP only if Enel was the main character. I was rooting for the bad guys the whole time because I wanted to see an actual fight... finally we got actual fights.... but those actual fights came with the stupidest powerups ever.

Hsdk isnt worth talking about. The power levels are consistent and the training makes sense but it is all so boring it isnt worth grading.....

Dont get me started on jojo. They dont really want there to be power levels in that manga.

So OP is a model of consistency and logic compared to the other horrible manga power systems out there. The only time power levels have been really screwed up was when Crocodile got out of prison and was apparently commander level the whole time. I will forgive Crocodile though because when he easily took out the demon guards with a sand storm, that is a physical attack, surely that wouldnt of worked on luffy in alabasta, he was able to block against mihawk.... idk maybe he just knows mihawk...if buggy can survive mihawk then so can crocodile. The training in OP makes sense so far, 2 year time skip...all good... the gears were kinda an ass pull but at least oda gave us an explanation that it was luffy copying soru. G3 was a huge ass pull but it sucks so I will forgive Oda. Nightmare luffy was a dumb powerup and I have written how I dont think it is as strong as everyone says. But at least it made sense.

I guess I could point out that it doesnt make much sense why admirals are as strong as emperors yet the marines havent killed all the emperors yet.... but that can be written off as marines just maintaining the status quo and not wanting to disrupt the order of things or risk an even worse situation. Last time the WG made a power play, executing roger, lead to the great age of pirates. So I will forgive them for being more reserved.


So ya I have to say OP has a very stable power system all things considered.............. I guess it is easy to have a coherent power system when you never draw fights....
 
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#446 Abaroxa

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 10:17 AM


So OP is a model of consistency and logic compared to the other horrible manga power systems out there. The only time power levels have been really screwed up was when Crocodile got out of prison and was apparently commander level the whole time. I will forgive Crocodile though because when he easily took out the demon guards with a sand storm, that is a physical attack, surely that wouldnt of worked on luffy in alabasta, he was able to block against mihawk.... idk maybe he just knows mihawk...if buggy can survive mihawk then so can crocodile. The training in OP makes sense so far, 2 year time skip...all good... the gears were kinda an ass pull but at least oda gave us an explanation that it was luffy copying soru. G3 was a huge ass pull but it sucks so I will forgive Oda. Nightmare luffy was a dumb powerup and I have written how I dont think it is as strong as everyone says. But at least it made sense.

Imo the structure is a bit broken because someone with a df will always have the advantage.

I'm not saying the person is stronger or that they will get the immediate win. I'm saying they have the potential to be better.

 

An example of this is Law vs Vergo.

We never got a confirmation that law had better haki than vergo.

All we know is that law manage to beat him. How did he do that? He either used a better haki or he matched the coat his weapon/power with one of a similar lvl of vergo.

Why do I say this is broken? because technically they get wins and draws in their favor while non users only get wins.

 

Maybe I'm jumping the gun since that doesn't apply to all users. But it does to a vast majority.

The only non fruit users who kind of have this type of advantage are swordmen and some other weapon users.

 

 

 


I guess I could point out that it doesnt make much sense why admirals are as strong as emperors yet the marines havent killed all the emperors yet

Dying WB, with multiple stab wounds, coughing blood and blurred vision wasn't taken down by any of the admirals. By the time akainu took half his face he was exausted and still he managed to make akainu reevaluate his choices(akainu had to hide till WB was dead to come back to the war). Yeah, as strong as the emperors.

 

 

 


Last time the WG made a power play, executing roger, lead to the great age of pirates. So I will forgive them for being more reserved.

So far they made two power moves. Rogers execution and then Aces execution.

I guess their problem is that they broadcast the executions with sound. I would mute that sh*t as the real problem is that speech WB and Roger gave in their last breath.


Edited by Abaroxa, 01 May 2019 - 10:18 AM.


#447 captain kidd

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 08:34 PM

Imo the structure is a bit broken because someone with a df will always have the advantage.
I'm not saying the person is stronger or that they will get the immediate win. I'm saying they have the potential to be better.

An example of this is Law vs Vergo.
We never got a confirmation that law had better haki than vergo.
All we know is that law manage to beat him. How did he do that? He either used a better haki or he matched the coat his weapon/power with one of a similar lvl of vergo.
Why do I say this is broken? because technically they get wins and draws in their favor while non users only get wins.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun since that doesn't apply to all users. But it does to a vast majority.
The only non fruit users who kind of have this type of advantage are swordmen and some other weapon users.



Dying WB, with multiple stab wounds, coughing blood and blurred vision wasn't taken down by any of the admirals. By the time akainu took half his face he was exausted and still he managed to make akainu reevaluate his choices(akainu had to hide till WB was dead to come back to the war). Yeah, as strong as the emperors.



So far they made two power moves. Rogers execution and then Aces execution.
I guess their problem is that they broadcast the executions with sound. I would mute that sh*t as the real problem is that speech WB and Roger gave in their last breath.


I see your point but I think 2 things.

1- if that is your only complaint about the power system then I think we both agree OP is probably one of the better manga when it comes to power levels. I mean at the very least in OP anyone can be a df user. Maybe not everyone can be a dual df user like BB but at least all someone has to do is kill a df user and they get that power. Compared to dbz where you have to be born to a specific race. Or bleach where ichigo was born to 3 different parents.... or ft where only 15%....13%? They said the number a few times only a small percentage of people can use magic. And dont get me started on naruto and their op eyes that can only be unlocked if you are a member of one family and have both the reincarnations of the sons of the 6 path sage inside you...... So df may give a huge power boost, but it is 100% better then all the other manga where you have to be born specials where luffy could of been born a nobody. Of course he was also born special but ... well what ever...

2- this is either Oda's fault for not showing it enough or you are failing to see the huge weakness of df. Sea stone cuffs/ bars/ all that stuff. It doesnt just stop df users from using their powers it makes them weak. A single touch from wiper's skates with seastone and enzo couldn't even stand up. If that was zoro (a non df user) he would of just laughed at wiper and punched him in the face. Same with seastone cuffs. Surely someone like garp is much harder to keep in prison.

Also. Oda has kept away from the sea battles like sanji's first arc. But in reality. Not being able to swim and being a pirate is a huge disadvantage. Massive. If you are a non df user and you are fighting a df user (who cant fly) all you have to do is destroy the ship the df user is on. We saw this when crocodile and Mr 1 tried to take over a marine battle ship the marines yelled "toss them in the water" BM and her crew were totally defeated by a single push off a water fall, and BB almost died to a huge wave (the knock up stream) not to mention in the don kraig battle, he holds the distinct title of luffy's first real loss because he tossed luffy into the water. So in a manga where the artist isnt obsessed with showing magical and wonderful settings, and instead most pirate battles happen on the ocean, then I would say df offer an almost unacceptable weakness. All garo has to do is jump in the water and uppercut ships and he could wipe out an entire fleet of df users.


As for your other points. Idk what to say... if you still dont see the obvious there is nothing I can tell you you havent already seen. Go back and reread the manga. Akainu was as strong as WB Ave to block his quake spear and quake punch with his own strength. He was as fast as WB able to react to the sneak attack, and Oda himself praised the power of magma saying it has the power to burn through almost all things. So you are only lying to yourself if you think there is any area akainu was weaker then WB in.
"But captain wb was half dead"
Oh yes that is how manga works! I forgot characters strength drops exponentially as they get older. So when luffy defeated dogtooth he was 90% dead, once luffy recovered that means he would zero diff dogtooth. You know because if he is able to best him while injured he can easily do it when he is healthy.
Also regardless of how healthy wb is or isnt. His df is just as strong as it was in his prime. What the hell do you think prime wb would of done differently? Did prime wb have more durability? Not against akainu he didnt. Would prime wb of been faster? He would of never been as fast as kizaru.

And second thing I dont think you have ever heard before. If the admirals are not all on equal footing as the emperors. Please tell me. How on earth did the marines win so easily then? Seriously. Wb had his entire crew, all his allies, 2 former warlords, the plot power of luffy, and iva who may or may not suck BUT he was able to defeat kuma.

For real, tell me how did the marines who are all below emperor level according to you, defeat wb's crew and luffy's team of prisoners, without a single emperor level fighter? How did akainu and aokiji one shot commanders? Before you say "they were distracted" please keep in mind akainu was distracted when wb hit him. You know what he did? Got back up and delivered a fatal hit to wb.... as opposed to ace and jozu who just both instantly lost...
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