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Attack on Titan: Chapter Discussion Thread (Part 2)

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#1981 Baks

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 01:23 PM

Somehow Alita came to my mind to. But in some other way, if we consider this magicians stuff it's like Promised Neverland.
 
 
 
Other than that, how could I miss the "he was a meanie HE DESERVES BRUTAL AND PAINFULL DEATH" cringe in this topic lol.


You honestly think that Eren's reasons justify what he did?

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand why he did what he felt he had to do.

But the way Eren went about it, - ya know his whole methods and means - just disgusts me. I have nothing but contempt for the guy.

He didn't have to deliberately choose to humiliate his two closest friends - Armin and Mikasa, now did he? Let alone seemingly betray all his other pals in the Survey Corps too.

Face it, Eren had other options available to him - like tell his friends his true agenda. But he choose not to, now didn't he.

#1982 pyrogenic

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 01:34 PM

You honestly think that Eren's reasons justify what he did?

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand why he did what he felt he had to do.

But the way Eren went about it, - ya know his whole methods and means - just disgusts me. I have nothing but contempt for the guy.

He didn't have to deliberately choose to humiliate his two closest friends - Armin and Mikasa, now did he? Let alone seemingly betray all his other pals in the Survey Corps too.

Face it, Eren had other options available to him - like tell his friends his true agenda. But he choose not to, now didn't he.

 

 

This is no private affair, more like taking means to save Eldians & people in general (?) form the fate that already caused countless deaths and nations falling. Maybe there were different ways, maybe not, maybe he was aware of all the possibilities, maybe not, but and so I'd rather go with him finnish his prescribed role of a saviour and then reasonably judge him than go with "OMG DIE FUCKING KILL HIM" midway.


Edited by pyrogenic, 08 August 2019 - 01:34 PM.


#1983 Graeystone

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 01:36 PM

Other than that, how could I miss the "he was a meanie HE DESERVES BRUTAL AND PAINFULL DEATH" cringe in this topic lol. 

"Mommy and Daddy are fighting again."

 

Baks  - I know it sucks big time. Keep in mind this series is one giant 'Means Justify The Ends' from all sides. Look at the reasoning Mikasha  and Eren gave for saving Armin and to hell with how everyone else felt or believed. Nobody in this series can be considered a 'Saint' of some kind. Even Armin who seems to be the 'reasonable one' in the group suffers from Yellowitis from time to time.


Edited by Graeystone, 08 August 2019 - 01:45 PM.

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#1984 Baks

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 02:10 PM

Do you not know the definition of the word acting
And fuck every single last of those racist, prejudiced and judgmental ass cunts known as Marleyans

You just don't get it do you? So what if Eren was acting, trying to gain Zeke's trust and make him lower his guard. That doesn't justify his bad behaviour whatsoever.

While I hate Marley too, that's no excuse of Eren killing civilians too when he gatecrashed the Warhammer titans war announcement.

I get that Paradis Island and Marley are at war, military targets and soldiers are fair game. But civilians should never be targets in any circumstances whatsoever imo.

Face it Eren stuffed up there, it's partly his fault that so many civilians died there due to his bad and faulty decision making and actions.

It's also partly his fault that Sasha lost her life. I know that Gabi was that the one that killed her, but Eren is at fault too.

Since she was part of that rescue party that helped rescue Eren from Marley just after he wrecked the Warhammer titan's announcement.

My point is, that she would never been exposed to such an untimely fate had it not been for Eren's shitty actions.

Also what about Levi, he is most likely either crippled or dead. Again that is partly Eren's fault too, due to Eren foolishly letting Zeke step foot onto Paradis Island and Eren staging that coup against the Survey Corps.

Tokoya, you and Pyrogenic seem to think all that matters, is how peace will get eventually accomplished for Paradis Island.

You guys don't seem to understand the journey is just as important as the destination. You know, the way and means on how you get to peace.

Hopefully these two clips from one of my favourite tv shows, The 100 explains my point a lot better than I can:

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=vE8o0DNwjY0

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=R5jSPVrs6p0

Not my personal favourite episode from that particular season or season in general, I really like season 2 of The 100 a lot, but boy season 5 runs it close second. One of my favourite eps overall of that show btw is episode 10 of season 5 - The Warrior's Will.


Yeah, I love that show a lot. I am currently waiting for the channel that airs this show in the UK - E4 - to show season 6 which I currently ain't seen as of yet. I dunno why the hell E4 haven't aired season 6 yet. But I am getting off topic.


It doesn't matter if peace is ultimately accomplished for Paradis Island, what matters to me is the whole way, method and means that are used for it that angers me and the way Eren went about it.

Hence all my criticism for his bad decision making and actions post timeskip.

#1985 kenkage

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 06:20 AM

IMO I see nothing wrong with what Eren did, this is war & civilian casualties are unavoidable and this is not the first time Eren & co. took extreme measures just to win, remember how they tried to trap Annie in the middle of the city even though they knew that this would cause significant casualties?

besides the war was not of Eren's choice but it was forced on him by Marley, Marley literaly wants to exterminate Eren's people, if it was for Eren then he would have loved to just live in peace with his family, Eren still cant even guarantee the safety of his own people so he does not have the luxury to start caring about the enemies' civilians.

if you (from now on the "you" stands for Marley) go to Eren's homeland & wreck his life & try to exterminate him & his people & feed them alive to monsters then dont be surprised if Eren & co. come back right in the middle of your house & literaly gang rape your family in front of you before killing them, in a real world scenario what would happen in a war like is that when Eren gained the upper hand against the enemy that wants to exterminate them, Eren & co. would have launched a campaign of raping & killing Marley women on a masive scale, the reason why this didn't happen is probably because that would have been way too dark & ugly even by SnK standards so Isayama didn't take this route.

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#1986 Baks

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 07:00 AM

IMO I see nothing wrong with what Eren did, this is war & civilian casualties are unavoidable and this is not the first time Eren & co. took extreme measures just to win, remember how they tried to trap Annie in the middle of the city even though they knew that this would cause significant casualties?
besides the war was not of Eren's choice but it was forced on him by Marley, Marley literaly wants to exterminate Eren's people, if it was for Eren then he would have loved to just live in peace with his family, Eren still cant even guarantee the safety of his own people so he does not have the luxury to start caring about the enemies' civilians.
if you (from now on the "you" stands for Marley) go to Eren's homeland & wreck his life & try to exterminate him & his people & feed them alive to monsters then dont be surprised if Eren & co. come back right in the middle of your house & literaly gang rape your family in front of you before killing them, in a real world scenario what would happen in a war like is that when Eren gained the upper hand against the enemy that wants to exterminate them, Eren & co. would have launched a campaign of raping & killing Marley women on a masive scale, the reason why this didn't happen is probably because that would have been way too dark & ugly even by SnK standards so Isayama didn't take this route.

Please, there is plenty wrong with what Eren did.


I will repost that first video clip from my last post for you to rewatch if you wish:

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=vE8o0DNwjY0


As Kane pointed to Diyoza from that clip I posted, the ends don't always justify the means. This applies to Eren too, I don't feel that he is justified in any of his actions whatsoever.

You seem to think that things like treason, staging coups, killing civilians and deliberately lying to your friends and comrades are all acceptable. I don't and never will.

Imo, Eren with his actions has just become nearly as bad the enemy whom he seeks to destroy.

Face it Eren had other options available to him but he choose not to do them for whatever reason due to his closeminded inability to think outside the box. Like ie at least tell his friends his true agenda, form alliances with other nations to take down Marley, etc. Rather than he did what he did.

#1987 kenkage

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 07:40 AM

Well let us agree to disagree.

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#1988 Graeystone

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 11:49 AM

Another thought about Ymir. Sometimes a person with autism will be very, VERY sensitive to noises. Noise cancelling devices are made in real life so autistic people aren't set off by sudden noises and whatnot.

 

So what if Ymir is like that. As far as I can tell she has never said a word to anyone in the past or present. If that is true then something is clearly up. Idea is we have a reality warper with some kind of mental illness that makes her ultra sensitive to things like noise which can happen to real life people with autism. One day she is bombarded by so much 'outside stimuli' that she just snaps and her power goes haywire. She accidentally creates/mutates humans into Titans to the make 'The Noises Stop'(bye-bye previous human civilization) and the people nearest her when she goes out of control end up being the Founding Titans. At the same moment she creates a 'pocket dimension where there is no stimuli to cause her great discomfort to the point of discomfort or pain' and there she remains.

 

May seem far-fetched but look a the Titan world. For all intents and purposes it is a 'noiseless world'. The sounds often heard in nature are not present. The massive grasslands always give a sense of an unnerving silence when first seen. The greatest source of 'noise'(Humans) were isolated/segregated from the rest of the world for the longest time. In this case the Titan's purpose is to keep the planet as quiet as possible so Ymir is not hurt.


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#1989 Tokoya

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 02:40 AM

You just don't get it do you? So what if Eren was acting, trying to gain Zeke's trust and make him lower his guard. That doesn't justify his bad behaviour whatsoever.

While I hate Marley too, that's no excuse of Eren killing civilians too when he gatecrashed the Warhammer titans war announcement.

I get that Paradis Island and Marley are at war, military targets and soldiers are fair game. But civilians should never be targets in any circumstances whatsoever imo.

Face it Eren stuffed up there, it's partly his fault that so many civilians died there due to his bad and faulty decision making and actions.

It's also partly his fault that Sasha lost her life. I know that Gabi was that the one that killed her, but Eren is at fault too.

Since she was part of that rescue party that helped rescue Eren from Marley just after he wrecked the Warhammer titan's announcement.

My point is, that she would never been exposed to such an untimely fate had it not been for Eren's shitty actions.

Also what about Levi, he is most likely either crippled or dead. Again that is partly Eren's fault too, due to Eren foolishly letting Zeke step foot onto Paradis Island and Eren staging that coup against the Survey Corps.

Tokoya, you and Pyrogenic seem to think all that matters, is how peace will get eventually accomplished for Paradis Island.

You guys don't seem to understand the journey is just as important as the destination. You know, the way and means on how you get to peace.

Hopefully these two clips from one of my favourite tv shows, The 100 explains my point a lot better than I can:

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=vE8o0DNwjY0

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=R5jSPVrs6p0

Not my personal favourite episode from that particular season or season in general, I really like season 2 of The 100 a lot, but boy season 5 runs it close second. One of my favourite eps overall of that show btw is episode 10 of season 5 - The Warrior's Will.


Yeah, I love that show a lot. I am currently waiting for the channel that airs this show in the UK - E4 - to show season 6 which I currently ain't seen as of yet. I dunno why the hell E4 haven't aired season 6 yet. But I am getting off topic.


It doesn't matter if peace is ultimately accomplished for Paradis Island, what matters to me is the whole way, method and means that are used for it that angers me and the way Eren went about it.

Hence all my criticism for his bad decision making and actions post timeskip.

My boy responded to me with a essay lol, I respect that xD

First of all, regardless of how morally wrong this whole situation and how you personally feel about it, this is a legitimate war. There will always be casualties in cases like this, and as a major player in said war, if you aren't prepared to do this then wtf are you even doing in a leading role on the battlefield? Yeah it's fucked up how it works like that, but that's just what happens, somebody has to do it. Its why so many soldiers come back home with PTSD later on, morals must be turned off because if you're caught lacking, the enemy will take advantage of that whether they be civilian or soldier depending on the country you're in

(And in this case, when the country you're against has been historically racist and extremely prejudiced against your entire fucking race, its safe to assume that no matter how good you may appear to be, they'll still kill and treat you like shit no matter what. We even have Gabi - Someone whose been conditioned so fucking hard that even she herself hated and wouldn't hesitate to kill her own fucking race as a prime example of someone "innocent" showing just how deeply rooted this anti-Eldian agenda is in Marley)

What happened to Sasha was just coincidental though, like who could have possibly known that Gabi snuck onto their airship, come on now. We didn't fully realize until now just how much of a deranged cunt Gabi until that very moment either.

I am at a loss for words as to how you're blaming what happened to Levi on Eren since his fight with Zeke was fair game either way and most of all, lets not forget that if it weren't for plot no jutsu combined with the power of deux ex machina, Zeke would have been dead (We know now how he survived though thanks yo the Ymir thing, but still that was really fucking convenient)

I fucks with The 100 heavy though, I've been a BIG fan of the show since episode 1. But if I were you, I'd start considering becoming Monkey D Luffy in regards to TV shows though lol (Season 6 has been very interesting in terms of lore but I think you'd love certain parts of it based on how you feel about the clips you mentioned)

But in short, don't get me wrong, what Eren did is still punishable since he didn't inform anyone of his plans prior to doing what he did with Zeke post the initial attack on Marley (Because at that point, they did know that Zeke "turned"), but at the same time, what Eren did is standard double agent stuff, so depending on how all this ends, we'll know if all of this was done for naught

Edited by Tokoya, 11 August 2019 - 02:42 AM.

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#1990 pyrogenic

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 07:04 AM

While per current international standards you are not to target civilians, then what Marley did was waging a total war with no rules first, so it's their fault to get such retaliation.
It's right that Eren is to be judged for his independent actions, but certainly not for making Armin sad.

Also give a rest to the Sasha incident. She was a military and died invading foreign country. SERVES HER RIGHT

Edited by pyrogenic, 11 August 2019 - 07:08 AM.


#1991 Graeystone

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 09:46 AM

. . ,

. .

.

Ok, got a challenge for everyone - talk to a REAL LIFE WAR VET about war is really like. . .provided they want to talk about the gory details. . .which means they tend not want to. . .and those who are a little too eager either got messed up in the head while on the battlefield or are lying through their fucking teeth about fighting in a war.


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#1992 Baks

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 11:37 AM

My boy responded to me with a essay lol, I respect that xD
First of all, regardless of how morally wrong this whole situation and how you personally feel about it, this is a legitimate war. There will always be casualties in cases like this, and as a major player in said war, if you aren't prepared to do this then wtf are you even doing in a leading role on the battlefield? Yeah it's fucked up how it works like that, but that's just what happens, somebody has to do it. Its why so many soldiers come back home with PTSD later on, morals must be turned off because if you're caught lacking, the enemy will take advantage of that whether they be civilian or soldier depending on the country you're in
(And in this case, when the country you're against has been historically racist and extremely prejudiced against your entire fucking race, its safe to assume that no matter how good you may appear to be, they'll still kill and treat you like shit no matter what. We even have Gabi - Someone whose been conditioned so fucking hard that even she herself hated and wouldn't hesitate to kill her own fucking race as a prime example of someone "innocent" showing just how deeply rooted this anti-Eldian agenda is in Marley)
What happened to Sasha was just coincidental though, like who could have possibly known that Gabi snuck onto their airship, come on now. We didn't fully realize until now just how much of a deranged cunt Gabi until that very moment either.
I am at a loss for words as to how you're blaming what happened to Levi on Eren since his fight with Zeke was fair game either way and most of all, lets not forget that if it weren't for plot no jutsu combined with the power of deux ex machina, Zeke would have been dead (We know now how he survived though thanks yo the Ymir thing, but still that was really fucking convenient)
I fucks with The 100 heavy though, I've been a BIG fan of the show since episode 1. But if I were you, I'd start considering becoming Monkey D Luffy in regards to TV shows though lol (Season 6 has been very interesting in terms of lore but I think you'd love certain parts of it based on how you feel about the clips you mentioned)
But in short, don't get me wrong, what Eren did is still punishable since he didn't inform anyone of his plans prior to doing what he did with Zeke post the initial attack on Marley (Because at that point, they did know that Zeke "turned"), but at the same time, what Eren did is standard double agent stuff, so depending on how all this ends, we'll know if all of this was done for naught

Well, we just have to agree to disagree like Pyro mentioned in one of his previous posts.

I hope all my posts with you and Pyro in the last couple pages of this thread have spelled out my stance with Eren. I really am uncomfortable with what he has done so far.

Damnit all, he is meant to be a hero after all, but I really don't like the depths he has sunk to so far in order to try to beat Marley. Like I said before his actions are little better than the enemies, his deeds post timeskip imo seem to be villainous rather than heroic.

It's the same problem that I had with Octavia during season 5 of the 100. Lemme explain this in some more detail:


Like forcing her own people to literally become cannibals by using force and violence tactics to make the non compliant people like Kain submit to her will.

Basically being a dictator over Wonkru, her unwillingness to listen or negotiate was one of the reasons why Kain and Abby defected over to the the prisoners side.

Threatening and blaming Bellamy for one of McCreary's men injuring her, something that wasn't his fault at all.

Shooting those unarmed defectors, just cuz people didn't wanna live under her tyrannical rule anymore.

Using people as biological weapons, another dirty scumbag move from Octavia yet again.

Making Madi her second to use Madi as leverage against Clarke.

Throwing Bellamy and Indra into that arena for a possible fight to the death, even though Octavia had the power to stop this fight at anytime.

Burning down Monty's hydro farms. Monty did say that he could use the algae to make the land fertile again. The majority of Earth is currently a barren wasteland except for Shallow Valley, which the prisoners - a faction that is openly hostile to Octavia and her army - currently occupies.

When Octavia burned down the farms - she destroyed their only food resource and basically forced her people into a war some of them didn't wanna fight in.

I really hate it, when characters that are meant to be heroes like Eren and Octavia resort to such evil methods in order to try to win.
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#1993 pyrogenic

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 02:27 AM

I am sure Eren will be redeemed in your eyes the moment Armin happily embraces him and shouts "I know you didn't mean to hurt us, you did it to protect us!"

#1994 Baks

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 04:06 AM

I am sure Eren will be redeemed in your eyes the moment Armin happily embraces him and shouts "I know you didn't mean to hurt us, you did it to protect us!"

Not really, to me the manga's ending will most likely influence how I feel about Eren, one way or the other.  As it stands now, like I mentioned before - I really don't like what he has done post timeskip.



#1995 Graeystone

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 09:28 AM

Not really, to me the manga's ending will most likely influence how I feel about Eren, one way or the other.  As it stands now, like I mentioned before - I really don't like what he has done post timeskip.

Can say one thing about Eren - he ain't no damn Gary Stu. . .


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#1996 Gobi Todic

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 12:29 PM

I'm not sure if this was mentioned before, but if they can change the body structure of all Eldians, why would the make them steril instead of taking their ability to turn into titans awy? They are called cursed bloodline or whatever because of that ability. Taking that "curse" away feels like a better choice than making them go instinct.



#1997 pyrogenic

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 02:04 PM

@Gobi Todic yes, what you said seems simple and obvious, but I dont think it was explained why Zeke's plan of making them sterile would have been better.

If I was to guess it is because Eldians would still be persecuted or at some point someone could bring the ability back, like they ended up circumventing the oath.

#1998 /2aw

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 03:25 PM

@Gobi Todic I am speculating here but I think the only flaw in that is the potential for an "instant" genocide should the people of Eldia become useless to the Marlayans and the rest of the world. I think that ultimately the reasoning behind Zeke's plan is rooted in a love for his people (albeit a twisted love) and completely eliminating the ability to transform into titans would severely reduce their power and even ruin the relationship between them and potential allies. Eldia would have no leverage for anything for the rest of the living group's lifetimes and that could yield a gruesome end for the Eldians 


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#1999 Baks

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 04:36 AM

I am just wonderng if whatever Eren and Zeke do next in this memory sequence thing is gonna somehow awaken Annie out of her icy tomb.
 
I assume that Isayama had some type of plan to deal with with her shifter powers. Since Eren currently has no way to get to her powers due to her unbreakable tomb situation.
 
Unless the author plans on leaving her like that forever and making her tomb as a monument for future generations of Elodians to look at.
 
Once this current war with Marley is ultimately won and we assumedly get peace for the inhabitants of Paradis Island forever.


#2000 masterbio

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Posted Yesterday, 05:37 PM

Finally read the chapter.

 

Got to say that I loved the all "stop-motion" scenes that show what is happening in the instant that Zeke and Eren met.

 

Eren's intentions were already revealed last chapter, but I have to say, I prefer the hot-blooded Eren rather than the revolutionary leader Eren.

 

And by the end Eren was like "Since when were you under the impression that you were controlling this dream?"






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