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Attack on Titan: Chapter Discussion Thread (Part 2)

Attack on Titan

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#2081 kenkage

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 09:40 AM

Eren's new titan looks quite beautifull, like a creature that came staright out of hell, his body though looks far much larger than his legs, I don't think the legs can support him alone so he's probably walking on all fours similar to how the Cart titan walks.

as far as his plan to eleminate everything out side Paradis, I believe that is the correct dicision, the entire world except the Asians have been demonizing the Eldians for a hundred years & saying that all Paridisians should be slain, they (the world) are the ones who started it so they shouldn't complain just because they are losing now, also remember how Eren only titanized in Marley after Willy Tybur declared war on Paradis, & Tybur's declaration of war was met with applause from the crowd which apparently included leaders from all over the world.

I think the time for strategies & cunning long term schemes is now over, I don't think Eren now has any other major plans & from now on he just wants to deliver the finishing blow to all enemies with brute physical force.

for Paradis, Eren's plan is certainly the better one, however if we talk about the greater good of the world then Zeke's plan was actually the better one.

Man, I hope so. Like I said, Mikasa and Armin have both talked him out doing some stupid things. They're his 'anchor'. Granted it didn't work all the time but maybe this time it will.

honestly I think (& I hope) that there won't be any Naruto style talk no Jutsu ending for AoT.

Edited by kenkage, 09 November 2019 - 09:42 AM.

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#2082 Baks

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Posted 10 November 2019 - 03:30 AM

Eren's new titan looks quite beautifull, like a creature that came staright out of hell, his body though looks far much larger than his legs, I don't think the legs can support him alone so he's probably walking on all fours similar to how the Cart titan walks.
as far as his plan to eleminate everything out side Paradis, I believe that is the correct dicision, the entire world except the Asians have been demonizing the Eldians for a hundred years & saying that all Paridisians should be slain, they (the world) are the ones who started it so they shouldn't complain just because they are losing now, also remember how Eren only titanized in Marley after Willy Tybur declared war on Paradis, & Tybur's declaration of war was met with applause from the crowd which apparently included leaders from all over the world.
I think the time for strategies & cunning long term schemes is now over, I don't think Eren now has any other major plans & from now on he just wants to deliver the finishing blow to all enemies with brute physical force.
for Paradis, Eren's plan is certainly the better one, however if we talk about the greater good of the world then Zeke's plan was actually the better one.
honestly I think (& I hope) that there won't be any Naruto style talk no Jutsu ending for AoT.

So you are perfectly fine with Eren committing mass genocide? That's just wrong on every level, both ethically and morally.

If Eren actually goes through with his act of wanting to destroy the rest of the world outside Paradis Island with all those Wall Titans, he fully deserves to be labelled as evil and villainous imo.

It's not just this mass genocide stuff either, Eren has done lots of morally dubious decisions post timeskip.

Like how when he killed loads of innocent civilians when the Warhammer Titan was making his declaration of war on Paradis Island.

Treason and staging coups against his own government, like when Eren betrayed the Survey Corps earlier this arc.

Betraying his friends and comrades, this is exactly what Eren did when he made this disgusting speech to both Mikasa and Armin back in chapter 112. Not to mention he locked up all the rest of his comrades in the Survey Corps in jail like Jean and Connie too.

See, it's an accumulation of all these things of why I feel Eren merits all the criticism he gets given all his actions and deeds has done post timeskip.

#2083 kenkage

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Posted 10 November 2019 - 07:10 AM

So you are perfectly fine with Eren committing mass genocide? That's just wrong on every level, both ethically and morally.


the same thing could be said really for Marley, I mean they were fine with exacting genocide upon Paradis, sure Eren can act like a mother Teresa but then he would be endangering the well being of his own people, now of course not all Marleyians are bad, you have Nicolo for example, but the thing is if Eren makes due with just attacking Marley without anihilating them then even those who were sympathitic with Eldia will have a grudge on Eldia & may try to avenge Marley in the future, that is why there is no way but total genocide, I imagen the only Marleyians who can be spared are toddlers, older people may be also can be spared in specified camps where men & women are seperated so that they die out from old age with out having any more children.
 
Graeystone sugested Armin & Mikasa might try to stop Eren by convincing him to change his mind, while at first one might think it is possible for Mikasa to for example threaten Eren that she would kill herself if he commits genocide, however remember that Eren can see the future, so if there is any thing that Mikasa would try to do, Eren has already saw it all & decided to carry on with the plan regardless, both Eren & Grisha seem pretty conident in the Attack Titan's ability to see the future, so I highly doubt there is anything left that could stop Eren.
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#2084 Baks

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Posted 10 November 2019 - 01:28 PM

the same thing could be said really for Marley, I mean they were fine with exacting genocide upon Paradis, sure Eren can act like a mother Teresa but then he would be endangering the well being of his own people, now of course not all Marleyians are bad, you have Nicolo for example, but the thing is if Eren makes due with just attacking Marley without anihilating them then even those who were sympathitic with Eldia will have a grudge on Eldia & may try to avenge Marley in the future, that is why there is no way but total genocide, I imagen the only Marleyians who can be spared are toddlers, older people may be also can be spared in specified camps where men & women are seperated so that they die out from old age with out having any more children.  Graeystone sugested Armin & Mikasa might try to stop Eren by convincing him to change his mind, while at first one might think it is possible for Mikasa to for example threaten Eren that she would kill herself if he commits genocide, however remember that Eren can see the future, so if there is any thing that Mikasa would try to do, Eren has already saw it all & decided to carry on with the plan regardless, both Eren & Grisha seem pretty conident in the Attack Titan's ability to see the future, so I highly doubt there is anything left that could stop Eren.


Please you're just making excuses for Eren's deplorable behaviour.

I get that Eren needs to stop Marley and its allies, but imo he should have really told the Wall Titans to target military targets only.

That's no excuse for Eren for targeting non combatants like women, children, the disabled and elderly which is exactly what Eren is planning on doing. When he ordered those Wall Titans to destroy everyone outside of Paradis Island.

Also what about the Asians that have helped out the Elodian people on Paradis Island, it looks like they are gonna get destroyed too by the Wall Titans. Even though they have been nothing but friendly and helpful to the members of the Survey Corps. Fine way for Eren to treat his allies.

#2085 Phenomiracle

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Posted 10 November 2019 - 01:43 PM

Uri here implies that he doesnt have power over an Ackerman. https://i2.wp.com/2....9-003.png?w=640

 

The Founding Titan's power doesn't work on them. They were never said to be unrelated to the rest of modern Eldia. This chapter shows that they're still SoY like the rest. 


 

That's no excuse for Eren for targeting non combatants like women, children, the disabled and elderly which is exactly what Eren is planning on doing. When he ordered those Wall Titans to destroy everyone outside of Paradis Island.

Also what about the Asians that have helped out the Elodian people on Paradis Island, it looks like they are gonna get destroyed too by the Wall Titans. Even though they have been nothing but friendly and helpful to the members of the Survey Corps. Fine way for Eren to treat his allies.

 

Point of the story is to proclaim that despite the efforts of the righteous, there is no feasible answer to the world's problems. All there are are different factions pursuing their self-preservation who are all slaves to their own emotions, instincts, and rationalization off information that they choose to believe. 

 

Crushing only Marley's military apparatus does not ensure peace for Eldia. The entire world is hellbent on eradicating them, and the rise of another larger, more well-prepared international coalition ready to strike at Eldia wouldn't just inevitable, it'd be accelerated and more incentive-driven, given what they would have seen happen to Marley. 


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#2086 D.Hyuga

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Posted 10 November 2019 - 02:47 PM


I get that Eren needs to stop Marley and its allies, but imo he should have really told the Wall Titans to target military targets only.

 

Both sides are waging total war, this is what happ when you plan eradication of one side, sooner or later the other side will start to plan the same thing for you.

 

And it is not like if real world where Germany was pardoned twice in 30y period.

And even in our world FDR wanted to relocate and quarantine Germans in Namibia, marshal Tolbuhin wanted to relocate them in Sibiria, one Brittish lord wanted to make a big golf court out of Germany... and so on...



#2087 kenkage

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 02:09 AM

a good number of readers not just here but also on other websites were suggesting that Anihlating the world is an unnecesarly cruel & exagerated way to achieve peace for Eldia, & that Eren should just launch a small attack on Marley just enough to defend Paradis without obliterating Marley & then Eren could use the Colossal Titans for a MAD (mutually assured destruction) strategy & tell Marley "if you attack Paradis then the Colossal titans will destroy you", but the thing is the previous king already tried this strategy when he warned against attacking Paradis & how did that work out? Marley still attacked Paradis anyway, because the king was a pacifist coward who valued the benefit of the rest of the world over that of his own people.

remember the tech being used in the SnK world is equivelant to WW1 or WW2 technology so if Eren does not obliterate the enemies & instead makes do with just severly damaging them then it's only a matter of time (a maximum of around 3 to 5 decades) till Marley aquires a nuclear bomb, if that happens then no amount of colossal titans could save Paradis, at that point if Paradis fails to develop a nuclear bomb of it's own then it will be reduced to radioactive ash seeing as how Marley considers the Paradisians to be worth less than ants.

& even if Eren decides to occupy the entire world without actullay killing every one in it then one of his successors might end up being like the previous king... a self hating Eldian who gives power back to Marley, or to chose a real world analogue... an Eldian version of Yeltsin who would scheme against his own country & anounce the dissolution of Eldia giving the upper hand to his own country's rival.

remember that Eren can see the future, so he probably knows better than any one what he should do.

having said all of that I actually do hope that Eren does not go through with destroying the world, I don't give a flying fuck about the world, but if he does that then his relationship with Mikasa will be destroyed forever, & for me I care more about Eren x Mikasa in this story than what happens to the others.

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#2088 Baks

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 03:33 AM

Water level will probably exceed the height of titans at some parts of the ocean, dunno how they'll get past it.

Most likely the Wall Titans are gonna walk along the seabed to get to the mainland from Paradis Island.

I don't believe that they can drown, since it was never before stated in the manga if titans are susceptible to drowning if they are underwater.
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#2089 kenkage

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 05:10 AM

Eren is in a way similar to Itachi from the Naruto anime/manga, while Itachi is the kind of person who would sacrafice the minority even his family, for the sake of the majority & Eren would do the opposit however they are both similar in that they are prepared to kill as many people as possible to achieve their goal & they both are shouldering everything on their own, however in Itachi's case.. at least Itachi latter on realized his mistake "I think may be you could have changed Father & Mother, changed the Uchiha, if I would have faced you from the start, stood at the same view point as you & spoke to you about the truth".
Itachi made a mistake when he decided to hide the truth to himself & only realized his mistake after his death.
Eren is doing the same mistake,but unfortunatly unlike Itachi it doesn't seem like Eren will realize it, if Eren would sit down with Mikasa, Armin, Hange & all his other friends, have a sencere talk with them, tell them the truth abouth the Attack titan's ability, about everything he knows, about his future prediction ability, then maybe they could all consult each other & reach a better outcome, instead of trying to do everything on his own.
personaly I do prefer happy endings but with this story unfortunatly Isayama seems to want an ending that can't really be said to be a happy one the likes of what we get in Naruto, Bleach etc..

Most likely the Wall Titans are gonna walk along the seabed to get to the mainland from Paradis Island.
I don't believe that they can drown, since it was never before stated in the manga if titans are susceptible to drowning if they are underwater.


not only can they walk on the seabed but they could also probably just swim, the ocean is deep enough to support giant ships that displace more than 200k tonnes so there is no reason why a much smaller creature that has the same shape as a human wouldn't be able to swim.

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#2090 /2aw

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 11:39 AM

@kenkage to add to what you said the titans are proportionately light when compared to an actual human and thus less dense than a human. The can most likely float easier than a human can so swimming shouldn't be too much of a problem.


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#2091 masterbio

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 02:01 PM

Ok, so what happened to Zeke? Is it possible that he and Eren fused and this is a mix of their emotions?

 

Being all Eren. Ok, I really want to see how they are going to talk him down. My idea is that Armin can still go Colossal and fight them no? And Levi and Hange have a titan serum... Still, it'll be a crazy asspull to get rid of hundreds of colossals... I for one, am on board with Eren's decision. I think the the ethical implications went overboard a long time ago, let's return to the good old "titan eating people" times



#2092 gamria

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 12:24 AM

Chapter 123
 
This certainly answers the question on how Eren reached the mainland before flying solo. That aside, nice to know that our cast had a peak at life outside the island, even if not an entirely pleasant experience
But all they had were captured warships, so how did they pass themselves off as mere foreign visitors without more civilian ships to rely on?
 
So this chapter takes the same format as Ch 106, with the storyteller being Mikasa this time compared to Armin. Both notably regretful, and wondering if making a different choice could've changed the outcome.
 
In their defense, how were they supposed to know? Before Eren's letter, all they and the other Scouts knew about was Zeke's "generosity" with Yelena and the Volunteers, plus his proposed 50 year plan to modernise the island with the aid of the Orientals. It was only after the Raid that they found out that Yelena had a secret message for Eren, which subsequently led to his more radical approach to things.
 
 
Still Hidden Intentions?
Well then, onto the main topic of the chapter: Eren's command order. I am certainly no fan of genocide, so taken at face value, I am against his wishes.
That being said, as tempting as it is to settle on that very face value as the answer, something still feels off
 
(1) In the past year, big lingering mysteries like Zeke's motivations, Grisha's memory with the King and even the truth behind Ancestor Ymir's legend have been revealed to us readers. Yet conversely, we still have not seen Eren's thoughts from Eren's perspective. Something that should've been far less signficant or enduring by comparison, but has still not been revealed to us just stinks of conspiracy.
 
Pre-time skip, much of the story has been told from Eren's perspective, complete with interal monologues and peeks into his thoughts.
Post-time skip though, thus far we have only seen Eren's views from Armin (106), Hanji (107), Zeke (115) and Mikasa's (108 + 123) accounts ... but never from his own first-person perspective at all.
 
I feel that Isayama-sensei is still hiding something from us for sure, something that'll once more flip our perspective in retrospect
 
 
(2) I can't help but feel that Isayama inserted that whole segment with the (Bedouin/Turkish?) refugees for a reason. The way that Eren empathised with their plight, how similar it is to what they had gone through. The way their freedom were lost, to be exact
 
If Eren really is intending to crush the entire world, then he will wind up destroying more people's freedom as well, making him a hypocrite. And this here feels off; it gives off a scent that is inconsistent with Eren's whole schtick (despite having already committed to that Raid)
 
 
(3) After first reading, I've been thinking about Eren's "broadcasted" declaration, and how counter-intuitive it is.
 
Notice how he broadcasted to every Subject of Ymir on the planet, not just those on the island? If his intention is indeed to crush the entire world outside, then by means let the islanders know to offset their panic. 
But leaking the disaster to come to the Eldians in foreign lands will just risk a number of them warning the non-Eldians about it too, leading some to flee (to the oceans?) beforehand. All the more so since the Warriors received the broadcast as well.
 
In short, he told too many people about the impending annihilation and risks the damage being lessened (however minute it may be). Given how careful post-time skip Eren has been, there's no way this was done out of ignorance.
So why?
 
---
 
Between all the uncertainties, I feel the only thing certain about Eren is that he wants the Walls gone, so they'll no longer be trapped like cattle, as per his desires at the start of the story. Anything else is still game.
 
 
A World in Motion
If it's about stopping Eren, or just minimising the damage, aside from going straight for his nape, I can only think of one other option: Annie.
If they can wake Falco up and the Scouts are willing to reveal her location, the new Jaw Titan can crack open her crystal. Her Female Titan (on a ship) can then use its unique ability to lure (just) some of the Colossals to the deep oceans.
 
But really, with Eren's actions, I don't see a nice way out of this.
  • Don't stop the Colossals, and assuming that he's not bluffing, they'll exterminate everyone else in the world
  • Stop the Colossals, and Eren will still have already antagonised the entire world, so every muzzle will be trained towards Paradis
What does Isayama-sensei have in store I wonder?
And will we eventually get a similar "looking back" chapter for Eren some time in the future too?
 
P. S. For the record, I didn't write all this to defend Eren, but to give my thoughts on the events as a whole in terms of a mystery, trying to figure out what Isayama is planning

Edited by gamria, 24 November 2019 - 12:53 AM.

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#2093 Graeystone

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 01:49 PM

Eren is in a way similar to Itachi from the Naruto anime/manga, while Itachi is the kind of person who would sacrafice the minority even his family, for the sake of the majority & Eren would do the opposit however they are both similar in that they are prepared to kill as many people as possible to achieve their goal & they both are shouldering everything on their own, however in Itachi's case.. at least Itachi latter on realized his mistake "I think may be you could have changed Father & Mother, changed the Uchiha, if I would have faced you from the start, stood at the same view point as you & spoke to you about the truth".
Itachi made a mistake when he decided to hide the truth to himself & only realized his mistake after his death.
Eren is doing the same mistake,but unfortunatly unlike Itachi it doesn't seem like Eren will realize it, if Eren would sit down with Mikasa, Armin, Hange & all his other friends, have a sencere talk with them, tell them the truth abouth the Attack titan's ability, about everything he knows, about his future prediction ability, then maybe they could all consult each other & reach a better outcome, instead of trying to do everything on his own.
personaly I do prefer happy endings but with this story unfortunatly Isayama seems to want an ending that can't really be said to be a happy one the likes of what we get in Naruto, Bleach etc..


not only can they walk on the seabed but they could also probably just swim, the ocean is deep enough to support giant ships that displace more than 200k tonnes so there is no reason why a much smaller creature that has the same shape as a human wouldn't be able to swim.

When Itachi did the deed he was a teenager. Sure he was a high ranked genius however genius does not always equal 'adult maturity'. Zeke, Grisha, and perhaps now Eren showed that while they were adults they are still immature for as old as they were(which shows with Zeke and Grisha).

 

What we are seeing in truth are some large scale knee jerked reactions to past crimes. Yeah, I get it the enemy needs to be stopped like wiping out their military. But to wipe out everyone to the last baby/child. That crosses the line to 'playing God' and that never turns out well when some human attempts it whether in fiction or in real life(Hitler, Pol Pot, etc.)


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#2094 Baks

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:11 PM

When Itachi did the deed he was a teenager. Sure he was a high ranked genius however genius does not always equal 'adult maturity'. Zeke, Grisha, and perhaps now Eren showed that while they were adults they are still immature for as old as they were(which shows with Zeke and Grisha).

What we are seeing in truth are some large scale knee jerked reactions to past crimes. Yeah, I get it the enemy needs to be stopped like wiping out their military. But to wipe out everyone to the last baby/child. That crosses the line to 'playing God' and that never turns out well when some human attempts it whether in fiction or in real life(Hitler, Pol Pot, etc.)

Well said Grae, if Eren actually goes through with his act of using the Wall Titans to commit mass genocide on the rest of the world. Well his actions will make him just as bad as the equivalent of Hitler or Stalin as far I am concerned.

Its laughable that certain posters in this thread are trying to justify Eren's actions of wanting to commit mass genocide. Newsflash, mass genocide is never acceptable in any circumstances whatsoever.

If Eren goes through with it, well basically there is no coming back from for him. He will have crossed the point of no return.

Just kinda like Bellamy pointed out this same point out to Octavia in this clip from season 5 of The 100:

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=SB_i2KdZClg

I just finished watching season 6 of the 100 last week. I am personally glad that potentially Octavia died in the season 6 cliffhanger tbh. Mainly cuz she became more and more villainous during all of season 5 and part of up to mid season 6 too.

Just kinda like how I despise Eren now too. Ever since the timeskip, he has acted more and more villainous with each chapter that goes by. All of his actions post timeskip have been pretty scumbag worthy imo.

#2095 kenkage

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 06:01 AM

spoilers are out:
https://ww6.readsnk....aw-chapter-124/

so apparently the chapter will be centered around
Spoiler
.

_______________________________________________

in regards to Eren's plan, I do wonder will he actively control the titans once they reach the mainland to kick buildings around or will he release his control over them temporarly so that they start eating people on mass instead of just stomping them? man I wish if Eren repeats this scene but in SnK:

https://youtu.be/Oo2b1KoYM28

all what you need to do is watch the first episode of SnK inorder for you to be pissed off at Marley, because they did practicaly the same thing as in the previous video.

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#2096 Baks

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Posted Yesterday, 12:38 AM

More Chapter 124 Spoilers:

https://mangahelpers...maries.3015194/

#2097 Phenomiracle

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Posted Yesterday, 11:58 AM

Chapter is out.

https://mangadex.org/chapter/761772/1

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#2098 kenkage

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Posted Yesterday, 12:35 PM

not much happened, the majority of the chapter was about fighting mindless titans, almost feels like the entire month was wasted.
in any case I certainly liked how Floch was supportive of Eren's plan, heck Floch seems even more radical than Eren and you can't blame him for that especially after that Erwin suicide charge.

some thing to note however: so the declared goal of Eren is to kill even the Eldians outside the walls, but why do that when he can just erase their memories? that is why IMO the chances of Eren's delacartion of genocide being a total bluff has increased significantly, the point of it is to try to make everybody unite against him, I still don't understand though, if that is his plan then how will he make relations between Paradisians & the mainland better? will he target even Paradis in the future?

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#2099 Baks

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Posted Yesterday, 03:30 PM

Solid chapter, Jean, Connie, Mikasa and Armin's realizing what Eren did for their people.

Their reactions to Eren's mass genocide plan shows they are clearly unhappy with it, Eren's actions have definitely divided the Survey Corps and their allies in half.

Just kinda like how Eren's actions post timeskip - especially his mass genocide plan - have divided this series fanbase in half, huh.

Seeing Pixis and Nile dying was kinda sad. Having Reiner lose his Armour Titan's hardening powers, after when Eren ordered all the hardening to be udone felt immensely satisfying to me.

It was also a good way to force Annie outta of her icy tomb imo. I personally cannot wait to see what she will do next chapter.

The only bad part of this chapter imo was just too much focus on friggin Gabi. That's my only real complaint, otherwise it was a solid chapter overall.

#2100 Kaidou

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Posted Yesterday, 06:37 PM

Wait, why didn't Eren commanded the wild Titans to backoff, is like he didn't have control over them. Sounds like an important plot point






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