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Attack on Titan: Chapter Discussion Thread (Part 2)

Attack on Titan

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#2101 Baks

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 11:56 PM

Wait, why didn't Eren commanded the wild Titans to backoff, is like he didn't have control over them. Sounds like an important plot point


I don't think Eren has any control over them tbh since they are Zeke's titans not Eren's.

All those particular titans where formerly all those soldiers that Zeke turned into titans with that drugged spinal fluid in the wine.
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#2102 kenkage

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 03:17 AM

regarding what Mikasa & co think about Eren's plan at first it seemed as though Jean was pretending to be supportive of it when he said "they brought this on themselves" but deep down he was against it when he said "we can't do anything to stop Eren right?" but then he brought a good point "the ones who will benefit from this are us" & then they all seemed quite accepting of it even Mikasa because they remembered when Eren said he only cares about them & not any one else.

Connie seems to not give a flying F about the whole world & he just wants to bring his mom back, the only one who was against Eren is Armin but remember part of Armin is now Betrolt so that is probably affecting his dicisions.
_______________________________________________

regarding the little mindless titans & why wasn't Eren controling them, here is another question: why didn't the several royal shifters control the attack titan? the attack titan was an enemy of the founder so why didn't the founder just control him? I believe all titan shifters are to some degree (but not completely) immune to the founder, so for example he can take away the armour from Reiner but he can't force him out of his titan form, it is possible that the midless titans were created from Zeke's human spinal fluid (not his titan spinal fluid) but since the amount is very small they don't turn into shifters, they get turned to mindless titans but they get the partial immunity from the founder.
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#2103 kenkage

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 01:18 PM

I did some quick measurements of Eren's titan size, he is a little bit larger than Chronos from the video game God of War (like may be by few dozens of meters) but in general they are comparable, video for reference:-

https://youtu.be/ki-Nj6WRtw4

speaking of God of War, I rather like the soundtrack of that game, I hope that when they animate this part of the manga they use a completely new soundtrack, that is a soundtrack with a completely different style because while all the OSTs of SnK are great but they all essentially have the exact same style.

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#2104 Baks

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 08:10 AM

regarding what Mikasa & co think about Eren's plan at first it seemed as though Jean was pretending to be supportive of it when he said "they brought this on themselves" but deep down he was against it when he said "we can't do anything to stop Eren right?" but then he brought a good point "the ones who will benefit from this are us" & then they all seemed quite accepting of it even Mikasa because they remembered when Eren said he only cares about them & not any one else.
Connie seems to not give a flying F about the whole world & he just wants to bring his mom back, the only one who was against Eren is Armin but remember part of Armin is now Betrolt so that is probably affecting his dicisions.
_______________________________________________
regarding the little mindless titans & why wasn't Eren controling them, here is another question: why didn't the several royal shifters control the attack titan? the attack titan was an enemy of the founder so why didn't the founder just control him? I believe all titan shifters are to some degree (but not completely) immune to the founder, so for example he can take away the armour from Reiner but he can't force him out of his titan form, it is possible that the midless titans were created from Zeke's human spinal fluid (not his titan spinal fluid) but since the amount is very small they don't turn into shifters, they get turned to mindless titans but they get the partial immunity from the founder.

Mikasa and co's facial reactions clearly show that they are aghast at what Eren did. Judging from that, it seems to me they are pretty uncomfortable about what Eren has done.

They have accepted what Eren has done, cuz there is really no way for them to stop what Eren has done.

So it seems to me, that they have resigned themselves to what the world's eventual fate will be after all those Wall Titans kill everybody outside of Paradis Island.

It's amusing that you think that Armin is being somehow influenced by Bert. Fyi, Armin always had feelings for Annie way long before he absorbed Bert's Collosal Titan powers.

But yet you don't think that Eren is apparently being influenced by all three of his titan's shifter memories. Especially the memories of Willy Taybar, the previous Warhammer Titan who basically wanted Marley to control the entire world. Yeah, right gimme a friggin break.

Ken, do you have an official source about how tall Eren's Titan actually is btw?

Anyways Ken, regardless of our differences about this series and Eren in particular - I gotta say you have good taste in games. XD

Yeah, I too love the God of War games as well, especially the first three games that came out on the PS2 and PS3. It's one of my fave game franchises ever.

I ain't played the latest PS4 God of War game yet but I will do so eventually sooner or later.

#2105 Krizalid

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 12:32 PM


regarding the little mindless titans & why wasn't Eren controling them, here is another question: why didn't the several royal shifters control the attack titan? the attack titan was an enemy of the founder so why didn't the founder just control him? I believe all titan shifters are to some degree (but not completely) immune to the founder, so for example he can take away the armour from Reiner but he can't force him out of his titan form, it is possible that the midless titans were created from Zeke's human spinal fluid (not his titan spinal fluid) but since the amount is very small they don't turn into shifters, they get turned to mindless titans but they get the partial immunity from the founder.

 

When Eren first triggered the Coordinate, he didn't get to control Reiner and Berthold. 

 

I think you can't control the shifters. Thats the whole point. And thats how Eldia could lose 7 of the titans I think. Thats also why Marley picks little children as shifter candidates. They can be brainwashed easily.



#2106 kenkage

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 09:21 AM

Ken, do you have an official source about how tall Eren's Titan actually is btw?

nothing official, all is guesstimates, so Cronos is 487 meter from the wikipedia, Eren's height (from the bottom to the tip of the visible part of the spine) is twelve times that of the furthest wall titan (I assumed the furthest wall titan to be right beside Eren), assuming that a wall titan is 40-60 meters in height that means if Eren stands completely upright instead of his current curved stance then he is anywhere between 480-720 meters, ofcourse this measurement is completely dependent on wether the furthest wall titan that I used for reference is right beside Eren, because if that wall titan is further than Eren then that would make Eren smaller than my calculation, I used the first page in which Eren's titan appears in the previous chapter for measurements, if I used the second one where Mikasa says it's way too big, then I get a much smaller measurment of between 280-420 meters for Eren.

I ain't played the latest PS4 God of War game yet but I will do so eventually sooner or later.

unfortunatly I too haven't played it because I have no PS4, & ofcourse my parents won't allow me buy one till I finish college (after 2 years or less from now), obviously once I graduate & become a dentist I will be independent & will buy whatever the f*** I want.

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#2107 gamria

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 07:09 AM

Chapter 124
 
This chapter has an odd taste to it. Maybe it's because it's the same type as Ch 11 (ie the "interlude" of the Defense of Trost), in which it's again about the cast trying to deal with the immediate predicament, then collect themselves before getting back to dealing with the greater predicament. Except, said greater predicament this time is on a far greater scale.
 
Or maybe it's because "cause and effect" seems to be a theme this month, played on so many levels, as the series endgame kicks off in earnest.
 
Not that it's a problem, I liked it. We needed this setup chapter in order to reorganise the pieces in play.
 
 
Mikasa, Armin, Jean and Connie
Given how shellshocked the former two are, I'm glad that Jean is there to lay Eren's intentions out there to think about. At least, a "plausible" explanation, since we still don't have any solid proof on anything.
He's also right that the current predicament is something that Marley had brought onto themselves. Cause and effect folks.
 
Them kidnapping Falco makes for an interesting turn of events, along with the decisions before them
  • Jean wants to feed him to somebody like Pixis to bolster their strength
  • Connie wants to feed him to his mother to save her
  • Armin thinks they can use him to form a truce with the Warriors
Not that it matters now, seeing as Connie has separated and took Falco with him. I can see the following scenarios happen:
  1. His mother is already crushed by the Colossal Titans
  2. His mother is released from her imprisonment, and is about to eat someone. Connie will then have to make a life and death choice
Whatever the case, I can't see him succeeding at all, so I'll be curious where his decision will actually take us
 
(more to come)

 

The Overlapping Chains of Causality
I know Reiner is exhausted and needs rest, but is this really the safest spot to put him in? Looks like an easy target
 
So, as mentioned above, "cause and effect" seems to be a theme for this chapter, starring Gabi. Regardless of how one feels about her, actually analysing the events surrounding her this chapter makes for true intellectual morsel.
 
 
Gabi and Nile
I am quite certain that the Titan who was about to devour Kaya was Niles. This here is one tragic chain of causality.
  1. Not wanting to see kids on the battlefield, Nile decided to take Falco back to his people
  2. Colt was going to kill Nile, but Gabi stopped him
  3. As a result of sparing Nile, Falco was able to be returned with no casualties and without alerting the other Paradis soldiers
  4. Conversely, him being alive resulted in another Titan being turned
  5. And because he went after Kaya's group, Gabi had no choice but to put him down anyway, with the very weapon that Colt would've used to boot
One way to interpret this is that from the moment that he drank Zeke's spiked wine, he was destined to die no matter what
Another way is that if he's going to die no matter what, he wants to go out doing something good just like with Pixis. In his case, reuniting a lost child with his family, since he himself can no longer return to his own.
 
Goodbye Nile. You were a prick when the series started, but you turned out to be a decent guy after all.
 
 
Gabi and Kaya
Here we have Gabi saving Kaya. I still don't know what to feel or make of the Sasha comparison, so I'll put it aside for now.
 
Instead, something else is a lot more interesting about this: Gabi being here to save her today is cause and effect of her own actions
  1. If she hadn't taken in Gabi and Falco on that fateful day, or if she exposed them as Marleyans, she wouldn't be here with her today
  2. If nobody had stopped her from killing Gabi, she wouldn't have been alive to save her
  3. If she and Nicolo didn't pour out their grief and sorrow over Sasha's loss, she wouldn't have had a change of heart
And as a result of her karma, Gabi is here to perform her first truly heroic deed: saving an innocent with her first Titan kill (and becoming the youngest person ever in history to do so).
 
What's more, her decision to again cover for her ultimately allowed Gabi to pass on the vital intel about the deactivated Hardenings to Mikasa and Armin, alerting them to Annie's awakening
 
There's no way to say if she'll ever be able to atone for all her misdeeds, but I'm intrigued by what role Isayama-sensei has arranged for her
 
(more to come)

Edited by gamria, 12 December 2019 - 07:45 AM.

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#2108 gamria

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 07:44 AM

Noteworthy stuff this month
  • The old man at the start of the chapter was Annie's dad. At this rate, will their promise of reunion come to fruition?
  • Eren, why are the regular Hollow Titans still running wild? They were going to massacre your friends for crying out loud. Is he too busy directing the Colossals to notice?
  • Truly, if it wasn't for Pixis, none of them would've made it this far. Farewell you wonderful man. (Incidentally, this is Armin's first (on-screen?) Titan kill)
  • After leading so many Scouts to their death, Shadis finally gets to do some proper saving for once. Looks like being the only Scout commander to retire while still alive has its benefits.
  • Given that Onyankopan was able to hear the broadcast as well, does this mean that Eren notified everyone on the planet, not just the Subjects of Ymir!? If yes, is it even necessary to go this far?
  • Flock, why are you still here? You sat by and did nothing while letting so many soldiers get poisoned by Zeke's wine, you don't get to have the moral high ground
  • If this guy managed to live, there's no way Pieck had perished. Where did this tactician go?
  • So what's the situation with Hardening now? Is it (i) only the activated Hardening were deactivated, or (ii) Hardening is no longer possible for all Titans ever again while Eren is still in charge?
Tragedy of having to put down their own comrades aside, it's nice to have some classic Titan slaying action again. With a reenactment of the Defense of Trost to boot too, this time with a much more effective and efficient strategy.
 
 
Annie
While I noted in my Ch 123 review that Annie could play a part during this endgame, it never occurred to me that this would be how she is freed from her crystal.
This is certainly one shortcut, but it also makes her return more chaotic. I was hoping for something more controlled, like freeing her when Mikasa and Armin are next to her or something along those lines.
 
But this? I'm not sure I like the idea of this capable fighter walking on the surface after sleeping for 4 years, only to find that everyone now knows about the outside world and the most dreaded scenario of her people is actually happening.
Although, since Hitch was previously shown to be aware of her location, maybe she'll meet her old comrade first and things become more controlled?
 
---
 
With how valuable the Female Titan's special ability is in this situation, Mikasa and Armin are certain to recover Annie for sure, with Gabi likely tagging along in pursuit of Falco. Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, since having a prodigy soldier with anti-Titan marksmanship on their side could make for useful assist.
In turn, we would have at least five known characters heading inwards of the island: Connie, Falco, Mikasa, Armin and Gabi. "Upstream" against legions of Colossal Titans no less.
 
Again, I don't believe Connie will succeed in saving his mother at all. But how's this for a spectacle:
 
Falco, transformed into the Jaw Titan, the fastest of the Nine Titans, carries the other four over his back as they race toward the Stohess District, where Annie resided, while swerving past the oncoming Colossal Titans marching their way...
 
It would be too nice for Isayama-sensei to actually draw this, but hey a guy can dream
 
Although, with all the spying that Pieck had already done, all the way to the royal capital, what are the odds that she pinpointed Annie's location, and is also making her way there now?
 
---
 
Whoever reaches her first, Annie will want to save Marley for sure. She has a promise to go back to her father after all.
And this will be the real test of just how much Bertolt's memories had influenced Armin
 
---
 
With their departure, that would leave Shadis and Jean as the ones organising the soldiers still left at Shiganshina District. With Flock as a thorn at their side too.
 
Agree or disagree with Eren, they'll have to first focus on rescue efforts and deal with any remaining Marleyan soldiers, and get in touch with the soldiers in all of the other Districts too.
 
Beyond this, I can't think of anything else. And still no sign of Levi and Hanji...

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#2109 masterbio

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 02:55 PM

I still don't know if I liked it or not. I guess I was expecting something different besides fighting regular titans. This is a bit like going to the beginning while Eren is roaming the world to kill everyone.

 

I also didn't quite enjoy the ending. This is moving in a way that suggests that Annie is the key to stop Eren.

 

For the emotional drama. I enjoyed what the main team discussed and how they felt. Jean trying to justify that what Eren is doing is right just because he's totally powerless to stop him was great. Connie's reason of saving his mother are also super relatable. Mikasa per usual didn't say anything, and Armin is still in his post-TS useless state.

 

I would've enjoyed more the all "we are all demons inside" part by the Italian dude when talking to Gabi. But tbh, I dislike Gabi so much that I couldn't really feel it.

 

Man, I'm really scared of the asspull that they're gonna use to defeat/stop Eren...



#2110 Graeystone

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 02:47 PM

I also didn't quite enjoy the ending. This is moving in a way that suggests that Annie is the key to stop Eren.

 

Maybe this is part of Eren's plan? On the surface he says he wants to commit a genocide like Zeke. Eren's thinking doesn't make sense because he opposed Zeke's genocide plan. His actions leaves no doubt that in order to beat him both sides have to come together to do it. Whether or not his idea of uniting the two sides toward a common goal like stopping him once and for all would work in the long. . .


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#2111 Chillman

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 06:11 PM


On the surface he says he wants to commit a genocide like Zeke. Eren's thinking doesn't make sense because he opposed Zeke's genocide plan.

 

Eren wants to kill everyone that isn't an Eldian so his people are safe. Zeke wanted to sterilize his own people so they wouldn't suffer prejudice and be a burden on others.



#2112 ndriana

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 06:17 AM

Yes. I doubt that it's a plot hole because it's so central in the story. But Eren not being able to order the regular titans doesn't make sense. Wasn't that the first ever plan? He could do it when he ordered the other titans to attack the female one. The reason that he needed his br etc. What's the point of sending the big ones to attack the rest of the world if he lets the little ones attack the island.

#2113 Baks

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 09:25 AM

Yes. I doubt that it's a plot hole because it's so central in the story. But Eren not being able to order the regular titans doesn't make sense. Wasn't that the first ever plan? He could do it when he ordered the other titans to attack the female one. The reason that he needed his br etc. What's the point of sending the big ones to attack the rest of the world if he lets the little ones attack the island.

What chapter did this happen?

Cuz I don't remember Eren ever ordering wild titans to attack the Female Titan.

#2114 D.Hyuga

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 11:07 AM

What chapter did this happen?

Cuz I don't remember Eren ever ordering wild titans to attack the Female Titan.

He had contact with his fathers 1st wife that was Fritz, and subconsciously gave order to regular titans to attack Annie.


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#2115 Graeystone

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 01:28 PM

Shouldn't it be time for Armin to step up and use his Titan Power?


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#2116 Chillman

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 04:30 PM

Shouldn't it be time for Armin to step up and use his Titan Power?

And do what?


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#2117 Graeystone

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 03:12 PM

And do what?

He's a walking titan bomb. He could clear a path easily.


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#2118 Chillman

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 09:22 AM

He's a walking titan bomb. He could clear a path easily.


I don’t think he wants to do that with people in the way.

#2119 pyrogenic

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 10:16 AM

Besides doesnt Eren have all the titans under his command?

#2120 Chillman

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 03:05 PM

Besides doesnt Eren have all the titans under his command?


He doesn’t appear to be able to control the smaller ones at least.




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