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#1941 Ace1225

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 11:17 AM

Nightwing #15 just might be my favorite issue to come out of DC Rebirth thus far....Depending on what happens in the next issue, I'll know if this will end up being one of my favorites of all time

My thoughts exactly. In general, this is the best issue of the series so far and i'm hard pressed to think of another issue I enjoyed as much in DC Rebirth. Then again, Nightwing is probably my favorite DC Rebirth series to begin with. I feel like we sometimes underestimate the importance that a character's relationships, romantic and platonic, really have in the story. This issue displays just how important they are, with Dick Grayson just spending time talking to all of the people in his life, clearly establishing the relationship he has with each, while also countering it with Shawn and her own relationships. If there's one complaint I have it's that Damian didn't get a chance to show up, but I really can't hold that against the issue when you look at the character's that did show up:

 

Bruce Wayne- Dick's father

Jason Todd- Dick's younger brother (Let me say, i've been against Jason being too close with other members of the Bat Family, but they've done some solid work on integrating him into the family and this issue displays that)

Barbara Gordon- Close friend/partner/(ex)love interest

Starfire- Amicable ex-girlfriend

Wally West- Dick's best friend (Really am glad that this relationship has been established again so quickly)

 

The conversation's with each were good and interesting, as was the view of the new relationship. This'll be blown straight to hell though if Shawn ends up dying within the end of the next arc, because that's what tends to happen whenever a Bat-person gets into a relationship with someone that's not a part of that world.

 

On another note, read Flash Rebirth's issues and enjoyed it. Going to go ahead and check out the New 52 series now.


Edited by Ace1225, 15 February 2017 - 11:18 AM.

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I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


#1942 Blue22

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 11:28 AM

Jason Todd- Dick's younger brother (Let me say, i've been against Jason being too close with other members of the Bat Family, but they've done some solid work on

 

Really? I've actually been loving how he's no longer that estranged brother the rest of the family doesn't like to talk about. Then again, that's mostly because the writer in me is a sucker for sappy family moments. Especially between siblings. So I always get excited seeing all the Robins getting along :P


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#1943 Ace1225

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 02:35 PM

Really? I've actually been loving how he's no longer that estranged brother the rest of the family doesn't like to talk about. Then again, that's mostly because the writer in me is a sucker for sappy family moments. Especially between siblings. So I always get excited seeing all the Robins getting along :P

Started to write a long essay, but stopped  :lolxg: To be short about it, yes. I generally enjoy the conflicts within the Bat Family and think that it's part of what makes them one of the most interesting groups in the DCU. These various conflicts (Bruce vs Dick, Jason vs everyone, Damian vs Tim, etc.) then make the moments where they put aside their differences and come together:

 

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

hit that much harder in my opinion. For Jason, i'm happy with him as the black sheep/outsider of the family for three reasons. One, it plays well for the conflict/drama angle I mentioned above. Two, it fits his character more than any of the other Robins. And three, it adds variety. Again though, i'm liking what they're doing with Jason Todd at the moment. It's been touch and go there since the start of the New 52, but they seem set on this current path for him. I just don't know how well it's going to mesh with the route they're taking over in his solo series, where he, in his own words, is the guy that does what Batman can't (Or something along those lines).


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I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


#1944 Tokoya

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:21 PM

My thoughts exactly. In general, this is the best issue of the series so far and i'm hard pressed to think of another issue I enjoyed as much in DC Rebirth. Then again, Nightwing is probably my favorite DC Rebirth series to begin with. I feel like we sometimes underestimate the importance that a character's relationships, romantic and platonic, really have in the story. This issue displays just how important they are, with Dick Grayson just spending time talking to all of the people in his life, clearly establishing the relationship he has with each, while also countering it with Shawn and her own relationships. If there's one complaint I have it's that Damian didn't get a chance to show up, but I really can't hold that against the issue when you look at the character's that did show up:

 

Bruce Wayne- Dick's father

Jason Todd- Dick's younger brother (Let me say, i've been against Jason being too close with other members of the Bat Family, but they've done some solid work on integrating him into the family and this issue displays that)

Barbara Gordon- Close friend/partner/(ex)love interest

Starfire- Amicable ex-girlfriend

Wally West- Dick's best friend (Really am glad that this relationship has been established again so quickly)

 

The conversation's with each were good and interesting, as was the view of the new relationship. This'll be blown straight to hell though if Shawn ends up dying within the end of the next arc, because that's what tends to happen whenever a Bat-person gets into a relationship with someone that's not a part of that world.

 

On another note, read Flash Rebirth's issues and enjoyed it. Going to go ahead and check out the New 52 series now.

Above anything, I must say that this post perfectly outlines how I feel and that I love it 

 

o4XweQW.gif

 


If there's one complaint I have it's that Damian didn't get a chance to show up
This made up for it imo 

 

e68f41ed22b948b5830de0ca43c8c657.png

 

The savagery was real and his presence was felt xD Man I love this kid so much :lolxg:


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#1945 secretzfan

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:44 PM

Bruh Super Sons this week.. That art looks beautiful!!!!!!


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#1946 Doan

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 07:31 PM

Why is Stan Lee praised so much but Jack Kirby is left out? Imo

Probably could look it up but would like to hear from fans, thanks

Edited by Doan, 15 February 2017 - 07:31 PM.

Fabolous ft Trey Songz "All There"

 

Spoiler

#1947 Chillman

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 08:02 PM

One is more prolific, the other is dead?



#1948 Ace1225

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 09:13 PM

What do you mean when you say praised exactly? If we're talking getting cameos in various films and attention from the general public, I agree with the above answer: Mr. Kirby is dead. Were he alive today I sincerely believe that he'd be given just as much respect and admiration as Stan Lee is. I say this because, in terms of his comics, that's pretty much all I ever see him get. Read interviews from modern writers talking about him or using some of his creations and you'll see that they never have anything but good things to say about him and what he accomplished. I then think that, because Stan Lee is still alive, more of a point is made to give him credit and that he's a visible figure in the press to take accept the credit. Naturally, he's got a higher public profile. As such, many people tend to forget that Jack Kirby was right there with Stan Lee for many of the most popular comic book characters of all time. I wouldn't say that one man was more talented than the other when it came to the creation process, especially when they worked together on so much stuff, but I think that Kirby also managed to make some great stuff after the split with Lee, which, while not as popular as the stuff they did together, has still managed to stand the test of time. Really, it's a shame that he isn't alive to get more praise than he does:

 

Kirby and Lee

Avengers

Fantastic 4

Incredible Hulk

Silver Surfer

X-Men

Iron Man

Ant-Man

Thor

Nick Fury

-Howling Commandos

- SHIELD

 

(Brief list, off the top of my head)

 

Lee

Spider-Man 

Daredevil

She-Hulk

Doctor Strange

Ravage 2099

 

Kirby

Black Panther

Eternals

Captain America

Devil Dinosaur 

Challengers of the Unknown

Etrigan

Kamandi, The Last Boy on Earth

O.M.A.C.

New Gods

-Forever People

 

A lot of properties under Kirby that would certainly not be known to the average person on the street. There are probably a few people in here who have never heard of some of these and I fully admit i've only read a few (New Gods, Black Panther, Captain America here and there, and a few issues of Kamandi recently). But if you look around, the majority of these properties still exist in some form today. Black Panther and Captain America go without saying. Devil Dinosaur is getting some shine right now however, sharing a series with Moon Girl. I feel like Etrigan has a sizeable following, also getting himself appearances in various animated DC projects, most recently Justice League Dark. Same goes for Kamandi and O.M.A.C. Really, all of his concepts, except maybe the Eternals, that aren't super popular have still been used time and again over the years. And it goes without saying that the New Gods are one of the crown jewels on his throne. Darkseid specifically has attained a status that few other villains in DC can match.

 

So, I really do think that any lack of praise comes from him not being alive for people to praise. I think that DC especially would treat him as a freaking super star were he still around, beacuse, while they don't constantly have his stuff in print, they've done a pretty faithful job of using and reviving many of his creations over the years.

 

EDIT: Hate to admit it, because I wrote the series off after the first few issues when it came out years ago, but the New 52 Flash series is pretty darn good and gets the character down well.


Edited by Ace1225, 15 February 2017 - 11:31 PM.

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I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


#1949 Blue22

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:14 AM

Spoiler Super Sons

Edited by Blue22, 16 February 2017 - 12:16 AM.

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#1950 Ace1225

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:54 AM

New 52 Flash: Iris West is low key unlikeable.


I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


#1951 Tokoya

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:30 PM

Marvel are seemingly doing some Rebirth-ish type of event in the summer because they released an image with the tagline "Generations" that was simply showcasing Marvel heroes and then the new incarnations of said characters (Iron Man, Spiderman, Wolverine, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Captain Marvel, Jean Grey, Ms Marvel, Nova, and Hawkeye)

 

But alas, this right here is why DC are forever winning

 

source.gif

 

And I quote "The lenticular cover of BATMAN #22, part of a crossover with THE FLASH. And that's why you don't mess with timelines, BARRY. Pre-order this bad boy to see the Dark Knight and the Scarlet Speedster investigate the mysteries of #DCRebirth!"

 

The image, seen above, features a lenticular cover that splits between two images: the Batman of the Flashpoint Universe, Thomas Wayne, standing over the bodies of his son Bruce and his wife Martha; and the pre-Flashpoint Reverse Flash, standing over the body of Nora Allen, his hands covered in her blood, while a young Barry Allen sobs over her.

 
There is also a splash of blood on the Reverse Flash's yellow costume which, coming from the upper left part of his chest, splashes down over his logo in a way that's very reminiscent of the bloody smiley face badge that serves as the most iconic image from Watchmen.
 
A rainy night making little splashes in the blood puddled in the street and gutter is a pretty Watchmen image, too, come to think of it.
 
Courtesy of the Batman team of writer Tom King and artist Jason Fabok, along with The Flash writer Joshua Williamson and artist Howard Porter, the two greatest detectives in the DC Universe unite to unravel the mystery behind a certain blood-stained smiley face button stuck in the Batcave wall.
 
However, what begins as a simple investigation soon turns deadly when the secrets of the button prove irresistible to an unwelcome third party – and it’s not who anyone suspects! This is a mystery woven throughout time, and the countdown starts here.

The writer of Batman confirmed on his twitter that Lord Johns is the one that did the plot for this crossover event so expect greatness :aww:


Edited by Tokoya, 16 February 2017 - 10:34 PM.

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#1952 secretzfan

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 12:31 AM

Marvel are seemingly doing some Rebirth-ish type of event in the summer because they released an image with the tagline "Generations" that was simply showcasing Marvel heroes and then the new incarnations of said characters (Iron Man, Spiderman, Wolverine, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Captain Marvel, Jean Grey, Ms Marvel, Nova, and Hawkeye)

 

But alas, this right here is why DC are forever winning

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0He81AkNO...

 

I still belive in Marvel. I think they can improve there comics and get things back on track for everyone. 



#1953 Ace1225

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 01:13 AM

Marvel are seemingly doing some Rebirth-ish type of event in the summer because they released an image with the tagline "Generations" that was simply showcasing Marvel heroes and then the new incarnations of said characters (Iron Man, Spiderman, Wolverine, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Captain Marvel, Jean Grey, Ms Marvel, Nova, and Hawkeye)

 

I could see it being Rebirth, except better. I say this because Marvel's equivalent of the New 52 has been better overall. All they've done is keep the exact same universe, but gradually have new Legacy Heroes take over for classic heroes, in different ways, with some classic heroes, such as Spider-Man, remaining. This has naturally been hit or miss, but the hits have been greater than anything DC had with its New 52. I then think they'll be making the decision to bring a number of their classic heroes back into play. This is already being set up and has been for a while now. Nova is back, Iron Man was never dead, but specifically placed into a coma, Captain America's "Hail Hydra" storyline or the conclusion of it is about to be the next big event, and Thor is about to recover Mjolnir within a month's time. Jean Grey, as The Phoenix, is then always just a small step away from coming back.

 

Never thought i'd say it, but I wouldn't mind seeing the original Jean Grey running around again. When you think about it, she's been dead for an impressive amount of time now.


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I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


#1954 secretzfan

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 01:24 AM

I could see it being Rebirth, except better. I say this because Marvel's equivalent of the New 52 has been better overall. All they've done is keep the exact same universe, but gradually have new Legacy Heroes take over for classic heroes, in different ways, with some classic heroes, such as Spider-Man, remaining. This has naturally been hit or miss, but the hits have been greater than anything DC had with its New 52. I then think they'll be making the decision to bring a number of their classic heroes back into play. This is already being set up and has been for a while now. Nova is back, Iron Man was never dead, but specifically placed into a coma, Captain America's "Hail Hydra" storyline or the conclusion of it is about to be the next big event, and Thor is about to recover Mjolnir within a month's time. Jean Grey, as The Phoenix, is then always just a small step away from coming back.

 

Never thought i'd say it, but I wouldn't mind seeing the original Jean Grey running around again. When you think about it, she's been dead for an impressive amount of time now.

Exactly I been far more enjoying all of Marvel's "New 52" with Marvel Now than I did with DC. 

Mostly cause Marvel has the advantage of having stories that are a bit more grounded in reality. I do hope though with this change that we also get to see less and less major events. 

I think the bigger issues here have been happening in comics for longer. No more going back to #1 for every new story arc, no more event after event after event. And god dammit stop with the overabundance of titles for every little character. 

 

Other than that. I am pretty optimistic. I want both companies to do well. 

Generations.png?w=630&h=420&zc=1&s=0&a=t

And this beautiful Alex Ross cover gives me hope. 

#MakeComicsGreatAgian lol. 


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#1955 Ace1225

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 01:36 AM

I definitely hope to see them move away from these bigger events or, at least, stop dragging every single major hero into these events. Make the events themselves smaller. This isn't to say that things like Infinity Gauntlet and Secret War aren't good. Of course they are, but at this point it seems like they're happening all the time  :lolxg: Also agree that they should stop giving so many characters their own titles/series. To be blunt, not every character needs one. That's what teams are for and giving everyone a series spreads the crop of writers thin.


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I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


#1956 Tokoya

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 02:29 AM

I could see it being Rebirth, except better. I say this because Marvel's equivalent of the New 52 has been better overall. All they've done is keep the exact same universe, but gradually have new Legacy Heroes take over for classic heroes, in different ways, with some classic heroes, such as Spider-Man, remaining. This has naturally been hit or miss, but the hits have been greater than anything DC had with its New 52. I then think they'll be making the decision to bring a number of their classic heroes back into play. This is already being set up and has been for a while now. Nova is back, Iron Man was never dead, but specifically placed into a coma, Captain America's "Hail Hydra" storyline or the conclusion of it is about to be the next big event, and Thor is about to recover Mjolnir within a month's time. Jean Grey, as The Phoenix, is then always just a small step away from coming back.

 

Never thought i'd say it, but I wouldn't mind seeing the original Jean Grey running around again. When you think about it, she's been dead for an impressive amount of time now.

 

I still belive in Marvel. I think they can improve there comics and get things back on track for everyone. 

I want them to succeed as well but honestly, with the way things are, I really doubt that it'll be as good as Rebirth yet alone better. But this video pretty much outlines why I feel this way

 

Start at the 44 minute mark 


 


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#1957 Ace1225

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:48 AM

Well, each company has strengths and weaknesses and they touch on that in the video. When it comes to Legacies, DC undoutedly wins, in terms of the method they've used of establishing their Legacy Characters. None of them really have any prominence at the moment, since they kind of seemed to have moved away from Legacies for some reason, perhaps in response to Marvel's strong push for them in recent years, but Connor Kent (Superboy), Cassandra Sandsmark (Wonder Girl), and Tim Drake (Robin/Red Robin) are some of the best examples of this. If you're talking gradually introducing characters, integrating them into a heroes mythos, building a fanbase for them, expanding on their core traits, and then branching them out further, away from the original hero, you really can't go wrong with either of those three. DC, generally, has a far more subtle approach to this type of thing. At the same time, DC tends to combine something like this with the Sidekick concept as well. Therefore, the major hero isn't actively being replaced, typically, and when he/she is, such as when Dick Grayson became Batman or when Donna Troy became Wonder Woman, it's never for long.

 

Marvel has never been as big into sidekicks as DC has, they don't have a lot of them, so their route takes the form of just replacing major heroes. They then take kind of a crash and burn route when doing so, where something terrible has to happen to the hero for the change to take place. This isn't universal, of course. Like, Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) isn't an example, since the original Captain Marvel has been dead for years anyways. Same with Jean Grey. Those deaths didn't happen in order for those characters to be replaced. Bruce Banner, Tony Stark, and Thor, are more straight up examples, where they had to all but move these original heroes out of the way for their Legacies, making it feel like they're forcing these characters onto you. Therefore, only a few of these changes have been organic and I honestly think that's why you can really tell which Legacy Characters are the most popular: Khamala Khan and Miles Morales. Them coming about did nothing to hurt or diminish the presence and story arcs of the original heroes. If anything, it helped the heroes. Khamala was presented as a major fan of Carol Danvers, who took the name to honor her, after Carol took on the role of Captain Marvel, a change that was met with praise since, after decades of serving on the front lines, it was seen as natural and right for Carol to take on that title. Fans felt and knew that she had earned it. Miles Morales is similar, taking on the name of Spider-Man to honor the Peter Parker that died on his Earth, having adventures with mainstream Peter, who gave his blessing, getting Ultimate Peter's blessing, after he came back to life, and then genuinely developing a solid relationship with Peter, as he learns from him and pals around with him. If you need to establish a Legacy in a short amount of time, THAT is how you do it.

 

Amadeus Cho Hulk? Jane Foster Thor? Riri Williams/Ironheart? Dr. Doom/Iron Man (And this is bad because even fans of Doom don't like the change)? O5 X-Men? That isn't. This isn't to say that these characters don't have their fans and that they haven't received praise in various storylines, but you've also seen them cause a lot of older, "classic" fans to be pushed away from the brand, which goes into what they're talking about in the video about said fans possibly not buying comics anymore. When you crap all over the original hero to get the new one into the picture, chances are it won't go well, unless the original guy/girl was universally despised, like Jason Todd. And even then, Batman went a few years without a new sidekick iirc.


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I can't force you to believe me that's your choice. People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" and "true?" Merely vague concepts...their reality may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?-Itachi Uchiha


#1958 secretzfan

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 11:51 AM

I just honestly just don't see the big difference here.

The new 52 had its own forced diversity in some places. Now they didn't go as crazy as Marvel has with it, but I mean Wally West was turned into a different ethnicity.
Superman almost had a black love interest.
And of course Cyborg replaced Martian Manhunter.

They did similar stuff. They changed the status quo.
While Marvel had a overabundance of big events DC had every other story arc be a crossover story.

Both are pretty similar and both were pretty much despised.

Now there are some aspects of Rebirth thst I don't expect Marvel to do.
Like having double shipped books a lot. As much as I would like that the reality is the idea that DC is able to lower there prices and manage tgat is a feat I feel is nearly impossible.
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#1959 secretzfan

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 05:42 PM

By the way thanks for introducing me to that podcast.
I didn't know all those guys had one
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#1960 Tokoya

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:12 PM

By the way thanks for introducing me to that podcast.
I didn't know all those guys had one

No problem buddy.....This week's Pull podcast came out a couple of hours ago


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