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[Character] Zaraki Kenpachi (Part 21)


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#1 Petite Fleur

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 03:11 PM

Previous Thread

 

Last few posts;

So what you mean is that you can't always interpret the facts properly, because certain truths are obscured. I agree.

 

 

Or certain information isn't made available for a fact to have form as a fact, but as a fraction.

 

 

@DarkNemesis
Which is also attacking a point I never made? I didn't say that the readers are infallible nor more trustworthy than the editors. I said belief in editors based on the assumption that they are more credible is foolish. Based on that assumption. Which implies that I meant based on that alone.

I did also stress the importance of coming to ones own conclusion. Further implication of me not saying anything like what you're arguing against.

Editors have source material and say things like Sabo is dead when readers could clearly tell otherwise. It's ridiculous to trust them over your own interpretation and to discount others PURELY because you think editors are more credible. That is a last resort when you can't argue against the actual arguments made for others' interpretation.

I don't know why you would quote me as if I said anything else.

 

 

Give me an example of what you mean. Because it sounds like to me you are conflating fact with interpretation.

 

 

The five war potentials. There's the fact that there are five, but there is nothing else. No discernible information to draw facts from, and no clear connection or marker between the known, and the could-have-beens to determine who else might be one. Just theories.

 

Fragments of information. You have to interpret this information, and speculate on it. You can't just view the facts of it separate from everything else. 3:

 


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#2 DarkNemesis

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 03:23 PM

Which is also attacking a point I never made? I didn't say that the readers are infallible nor more trustworthy than the editors.


I never said you did. So now you're attacking a point that I never made :psyduck:


 

Editors have source material and say things like Sabo is dead when readers could clearly tell otherwise. It's ridiculous to trust them over your own interpretation


I don't know who or what Sabo is, but nonetheless I acknowledged your point.


 

I said belief in editors based on the assumption that they are more credible is foolish.


I disagree. As you noted and I acknowledged, unless the editor caught lying or being wrong consistently, very consistently, then belief that they are more credible (because they have access to the source) is not foolish but rational. However taking the editor's word as gospel or in this case canon is foolish.

 

The five war potentials. There's the fact that there are five, but there is nothing else. No discernible information to draw facts a conclusion from,


This is the semantic where you and I disagree. There are facts. 5 WPs. 3 of which have been named. And all 3 have rebelled against SS in some way. And all 3 are stupidly powerful. And up until this arc all 3 had mysterious and unique backgrounds. All those things are facts. The truth, theory, or conclusion of what the WPs are and how they are chosen still is a mystery. There's not enough evidence or facts to definitively determine what that truth/theory/conclusion is.

Edited by DarkNemesis, 02 March 2015 - 03:30 PM.

Kubo's announcement will be his new work will be called Tide; not as strong as bleach but does its trolling in a more colorful fashion! - arcane_chaos

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#3 Petite Fleur

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 03:27 PM


This is the semantic where you and I disagree. There are facts. 5 WPs. 3 of which have been named. And all 3 have rebelled against SS in some way. And all 3 are stupidly powerful. And up until this arc all 3 had mysterious and unique backgrounds. All those things are facts. The truth, theory, or conclusion of what the WPs are and how they are chosen still is a mystery. There's not enough evidence or facts to definitely determine what that truth/theory/conclusion is.

 

None of those facts were readily presentable at the start. There has been a collection of fragments from the start, and the whole truth still isn't known. 3:


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#4 DarkNemesis

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 03:29 PM

None of those facts were readily presentable at the start. There has been a collection of fragments from the start, and the whole truth still isn't known. 3:


So ....we agree now :psyduck:

Kubo's announcement will be his new work will be called Tide; not as strong as bleach but does its trolling in a more colorful fashion! - arcane_chaos

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#5 Petite Fleur

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 04:02 PM

So ....we agree now :psyduck:

That's what I was always saying, though 3x


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#6 SSJ Zaraki

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 02:39 PM

The next time we see Zaraki fight, he's definitely going to win.



#7 Chillman

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 06:02 PM

He's getting that Zenkai.



#8 Ultrafragor

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 07:59 PM

The next time we see Zaraki fight, he's definitely going to win.


He already won.

Next he'll go all out and be defeated at full power.

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#9 Tenno

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 09:31 PM

So he'll fall victim to the Bankai reveal curse.

 

 

So lets recap

 

Zaraki has had his Plot line validated, killed three SR off screen, unlocked his shikai and has pulverized a meteor

 

on the other hand

 

He has been off screened by a Doppleganger of the villain, His first real opponent killed himself in fit of stupidity, He was then immediately crippled and needed to be saved by Ichigo, He was then crippled almost instantly again and had to be saved by ... Mayuri -ain't that a kick in the nuts-

He has apparently killed the one woman he loved... Romantically and has apparently lost his  'Daughter' to strange and unseen powers and one way or another may end up losing her for good.

 

The only people who should be more livid then Kenpachi fans... are Unohana fans


"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again" -Corrax Entry 7:17


#10 Chillman

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 09:44 PM


He has apparently killed the one woman he loved...

 

Shippers gonna ship. I'm not sure how to describe their relationship.



#11 ryuzaki07

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 12:06 PM

Zaraki and Unohanas relationship is very similar to Big Boss and The Boss' relationship from Metal Gear.

big Boss was The Boss' apprentice, and learned most of his values from her, she was like a mother and a mentor to him, much like Zaraki got his values from Unohana.

Both Big Boss and Zaraki tried to act under their mentors ideals, but ultimately, once they understood what those ideals really meant, they both decided to ultimately renounce those ideals and act under their own ideals, which they previously thought were their mentors ideals.

They also were tasked with killing their mentors, and were later awarded titles for surpassing them. Snake killed the Boss so he became Big Boss, and Zaraki became the Kenpachi after killing Unohana, the one Kenpachi that was never truly surpassed until him.

They also both wear eyepatches and lead soldiers that are super loyal to him.

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#12 FongShwei69

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 04:07 PM

Both Big Boss and Zaraki tried to act under their mentors ideals


Except Unohana wasn't Zaraki's mentor. She never taught him and he had no recollection of who she was, until they fought each other again.

A mentor is what Hisagi had in Tousen, and what Soi Fon had with Yoruichi.

#13 ryuzaki07

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 04:10 PM


Except Unohana wasn't Zaraki's mentor. She never taught him

But she did, in a way, Zaraki learned a lot with her, even if it was by unconventional means, Zaraki still looked up to her.

 


he had no recollection of who she was, until they fought each other again.

Thats false.


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#14 FongShwei69

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 04:17 PM

But she did, in a way, Zaraki learned a lot with her, even if it was by unconventional means, Zaraki still looked up to her.


It's not the same thing. Unohana was an idol to him, not a mentor.
 

Thats false.


No it isn't. Zaraki told Yachiru that he named her after someone he admired, but he couldn't recall who they were. Otherwise, he would've known the captain of the 4th division, which his division mocked, was his idol.
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#15 Tom Ace

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 04:36 PM

It's not the same thing. Unohana was an idol to him, not a mentor.
 

No it isn't. Zaraki told Yachiru that he named her after someone he admired, but he couldn't recall who they were. Otherwise, he would've known the captain of the 4th division, which his division mocked, was his idol.

 

 

Maybe in the anime but not in the manga. I have the volume and he never said he didn't know who it was.


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#16 ryuzaki07

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 04:39 PM


It's not the same thing. Unohana was an idol to him, not a mentor.

These arent mutually exclusive. He learned most of his values in life from her. For all intents and purposes, she is his mentor. Her life goal was to make him become the best he could possibly be. If she wasnt her mentor then she sure is her mentor after he fought her.

 


No it isn't. Zaraki told Yachiru that he named her after someone he admired, but he couldn't recall who they were

You realize how this makes absolutely no sense?


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#17 FongShwei69

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 04:55 PM

Maybe in the anime but not in the manga. I have the volume and he never said he didn't know who it was.


But he didn't seem recognize her in the manga either. He was working with her all that time and it never dawned on him that Unohana was the one he looked up to.
 

These arent mutually exclusive. He learned most of his values in life from her. For all intents and purposes, she is his mentor.


No he didn't. When they fought each other in Moukai, he realized his impression of her was completely different from what she was actually like. He thought they were the same, except they weren't. That's why he was surprised that she used hidden weapons and said it was a cheap tactic, which wasn't like the Yachiru he thought he knew.

She had to tell him the "Yachiru" he thought he knew never existed.
 

You realize how this makes absolutely no sense?


Yes it does. All he remembered was the name, not the person that went with it.

It's not unheard of, especially when it concerns someone you haven't seen in ages. Or, if there's something effecting your memory.

Edited by FongShwei69, 25 September 2015 - 05:52 PM.

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#18 Tom Ace

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 05:28 PM

But he didn't seem recognize her in the manga either. He was working with her all that time and it never dawned on him that Unohana was the one he looked up to all that time.
 

No he didn't. When they fought each other in Moukai, he realized his impression of her was completely different from what she was actually like. He thought they were the same, except they weren't. That's why he was surprised that she used hidden weapons and said it was a cheap tactic, which wasn't like the Yachiru he thought he knew.

She had to tell him the "Yachiru" he thought he knew never existed.
 

Yes it does. All he remembered was the name, not the person that went with it.

It's not unheard of, especially when it concerns someone you haven't seen in ages. Or, if there's something effecting your memory.

 

During the battle he talks about all the things he remembers about her and the fight. are you saying he suddenly remembered everything as soon as she revealed her scar?



#19 Chillman

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 05:53 PM

During the battle he talks about all the things he remembers about her and the fight. are you saying he suddenly remembered everything as soon as she revealed her scar?

He did put up a ton of blocks.


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#20 FongShwei69

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 06:00 PM

During the battle he talks about all the things he remembers about her and the fight. are you saying he suddenly remembered everything as soon as she revealed her scar?


Sure, he remembered that they fought before, but he didn't recall who she was prior to that moment.

Think about it: Zaraki joined the Gotei 13 thinking he might be able to find Yachiru again*; not knowing she was right there at the 4th division.


*note: iirc, Zaraki said it was the reason he joined the Gotei Court Guard. It's been awhile since I've gone that far back in the series, so I might be recalling an anime scene.




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