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[Character] Zaraki Kenpachi (Part 21)


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#21 Tom Ace

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 06:06 PM

Sure, he remembered that they fought before, but he didn't recall who she was prior to that moment.

Think about it: Zaraki joined the Gotei 13 thinking he might be able to find Yachiru again*; not knowing she was right there at the 4th division.


*note: iirc, Zaraki said it was the reason he joined the Gotei Court Guard. It's been awhile since I've gone that far back in the series, so I might be recalling an anime scene.

 

I'm not sure about that either. What could have happened, is that Zaraki always knew who she was and challenged the 10th Kenpachi thinking it was Unohana, and being disappointed that she gave up on being the strongest, and took a non combative stance.



#22 ryuzaki07

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 06:49 PM


No he didn't. When they fought each other in Moukai, he realized his impression of her was completely different from what she was actually like. He thought they were the same, except they weren't. That's why he was surprised that she used hidden weapons and said it was a cheap tactic, which wasn't like the Yachiru he thought he knew.

She had to tell him the "Yachiru" he thought he knew never existed.

So? Just because it wasnt who she was doesnt mean he didnt learn anything from her.  Like Big Boss and The Boss.

 


Yes it does. All he remembered was the name, not the person that went with it.

But that doesnt make any sense at all. How the hell wouldnt he remember the face of a person, but her name? Its not like people dont know Unohana was a founding member of the gotei.

 


But he didn't seem recognize her in the manga either. He was working with her all that time and it never dawned on him that Unohana was the one he looked up to.

 

So i guess Unohana also forgot about Kenpachi, because she didnt seem to recognize him up to the point they fought. You realize that theres absolutely no way that Zaraki doesnt know Unohana was the first Kenpachi. Its not like there was a huge coverup to hide this fact. 


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#23 FongShwei69

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 07:21 PM

So? Just because it wasnt who she was doesnt mean he didnt learn anything from her.


Dude... how did he learn anything from her, if he didn't even understand what she was like? That's why the MGS analogy doesn't work. The Boss personally trained Snake. Unohana did not train Zaraki.

They'd be more like Sakura and Ryu from 'SSF IV'. Sakura idolizes Ryu, just as Zaraki did with Yachiru. However, Ryu is not Sakura's mentor, because he didn't train her. Likewise, they met once and didn't see each other again until years later. So Sakura wanted to show Ryu what she had learned since then (during their rival battle).
 

But that doesnt make any sense at all. How the hell wouldnt he remember the face of a person, but her name?


If you go back over my post, you'll see I never said he remembered her face. Tom Ace and Chillman understood what I meant (i.e. he remembered the name "Yachiru", but not the peson that went with it).
 
It's a fairly common plot element that someone only vaguely remembers someone from their past. They might remember meeting them before, or the name might sound familiar to them, but (for whatever reason) they can't recall anything else about them.

For example, in 'Love Hina', Keitaro vaguely remembers he made a childhood marriage promise with someone, but doesn't remember who the girl was. Which is the crux of the plot. Or in 'Highschool of the Dead', Saya completely forgot who Morita was, even though he asked her out three different times, because he meant that little to her. It happens.
 

So i guess Unohana also forgot about Kenpachi, because she didnt seem to recognize him up to the point they fought.


No, she knew exactly who he was. He was the one who forgot her.

You realize that theres absolutely no way that Zaraki doesnt know Unohana was the first Kenpachi.


So you're saying he joined the Gotei 13 for a chance to fight his idol again and didn't know she was right there at the 4th division? And that he remembered her so clearly that his impression of her was completely wrong?

#24 ryuzaki07

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 07:55 PM


Dude... how did he learn anything from her, if he didn't even understand what she was like? That's why the MGS analogy doesn't work. The Boss personally trained Snake. Unohana did not train Zaraki.

Because before he fought her he was one person,and after it he was a completely different person. It was a learning experience for him. Its not a hard concept to grasp.

 

I'm guessing you didnt play peace walker. 

 


he remembered the name "Yachiru", but not the peson that went with it)

So, what youre saying is: He remembered the fight, he remembered he lost the fight, he remembered her name, but not her face? You dont realize how dumb this sounds? Especially considering Zaraki modled himself after her?

 


For example, in 'Love Hina', Keitaro vaguely remembers he made a childhood marriage promise with someone, but doesn't remember who the girl was. Which is the crux of the plot. Or in 'Highschool of the Dead', Saya completely forgot who Morita was, even though he asked her out three different times, because he meant that little to her. It happens.

None of those examples are in any way similar to Zarakis situation. In Love Hina, the guy just doesnt remeber someone that he last saw in his childhood, and has since grown up and thus changed how she looked, while Unohana hasnt aged a day? If Zaraki ever forgot about her, he should have remembered the moment he saw her again. The HotD example is the complete oposite of the situation, because in that Morita was irrelevant, but Unohanan wasnt ignored by Kenpachi, so he should remember her. 

 


So you're saying he joined the Gotei 13 for a chance to fight his idol again and didn't know she was right there at the 4th division?

He joined the gotei to become like her, not beat her. He saw that she wasnt interested in fighting anymore, anyway, which is why she went to the 4th division.

 


And that he remembered her so clearly that his impression of her was completely wrong?

But this is word by word explained by Unohana herself, remember? Its because he never gave her an opening before that he got those impressions of her. 

 

Why exactly even gave you the impression he forgot about her face when he clarly recognizes her in Muken? Why didnt he react at the fact that Unohana was Yachiru then? Surely he would have been at the very least suprised at such a reveal. Furthermore, if he didnt remember her, why did he say that they both belonged in muken? Why doesnt he question why they are even fighting? Why did he leave his eyepatch at his divisions quarters before going to the actual fight? Why did he never ask anyone who Yachiru was if he was looking for her? 

 

Kenpachi not remembering about Unohana makes zero sense whatsoever. She's literally one of the most important people in his life, yet he just forgot about her? Why would he even forget about her?


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#25 FongShwei69

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 08:51 PM

Because before he fought her he was one person,and after it he was a completely different person.


Zaraki was the same person before and after their first battle. He liked to fighting strong opponents then, he still does now. There was no difference.
 

So, what youre saying is: He remembered the fight, (1)he remembered he lost the fight, he remembered her name, but not her face? You dont realize how dumb this sounds? (2)Especially considering Zaraki modled himself after her?


1. Unohana flat-out said Zaraki won the match, and that was after he started subconsciously holding back on her.
2. No he did not, because he realized he and Unohana were nothing alike.

Sakura modelled herself after Ryu, by emulating his fighting style. Zaraki modelled himself after someone who didn't exist. That's why he was surprised to find out she used hidden weapons, which he considered a cheap tactic.

You see the disconnect there?
 

In Love Hina, the guy just doesnt remeber someone that he last saw in his childhood, and has since grown up and thus changed how she looked, while Unohana hasnt aged a day?


It wasn't the fact that her look had changed, Keitaro couldn't remember who the girl was period. All he remembered was the promise he made to them.
 

If Zaraki ever forgot about her, he should have remembered the moment he saw her again.


Not necessarily, especially if there was anything clouding his memory of her. It took their rematch to jog his memory.
 

He joined the gotei to become like her, not beat her. He saw that she wasnt interested in fighting anymore, anyway, which is why she went to the 4th division.


When did he say that?

It was never said why she joined the 4th division, or how she went from murderous rampages to being 'Dr. Quinn'.
 

But this is word by word explained by Unohana herself, remember? Its because he never gave her an opening before that he got those impressions of her.


Which would mean he never really knew her, so he couldn't model himself after her.
 

Why exactly even gave you the impression he forgot about her face when he clarly recognizes her in Muken? Why didnt he react at the fact that Unohana was Yachiru then?


I could've sworn he did. iirc, he didn't realize it was her, until she showed him the scar he'd given her in their first match.
 

Why doesnt he question why they are even fighting?


Since when does Zaraki turn down a chance to fight a strong opponent? It's what he lives for. So why would he question it now?

Besides, they were ordered to by the newly appointed CC. That was all the justification either of them needed.
 

Why did he leave his eyepatch at his divisions quarters before going to the actual fight? Why did he never ask anyone who Yachiru was if he was looking for her?


The fight was supposed to be to death. He'd have to be pretty foolish to leave his patch on for a fight like that, 'cuz the last time he made that mistake (vs. Nnoitra), it nearly got him killed.
 

Kenpachi not remembering about Unohana makes zero sense whatsoever. She's literally one of the most important people in his life, yet he just forgot about her? Why would he even forget about her?


Just because she was important to him, doesn't mean he'd remember who she was.

Case in point: Sokka's mother was important to him to. Yet, he admitted to Toph that he couldn't remember her face anymore. He said every time he tried to, the only face he saw was Katara's. Just sayin'.

Edited by FongShwei69, 25 September 2015 - 08:53 PM.


#26 JasonDM

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Posted 27 September 2015 - 11:05 AM

@FongShwei69

Everything you said was right btw. Mentor and Idol are mutually exclusive, they dont even mean anything close to the same thing. A mentor is someone you confide in, ask for advice, get trained by said person. When did Kenpachi/Unohana do any of this? An Idol is an image/representation of someone who is revered, admired, almost worshipped. Which is exactly what Kenpachi did, except he idolized a person who never existed. So how can he train, confide in and ask for advice from someone he doesn't know because they never existed.

Completely bogus.


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#27 ryuzaki07

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 04:21 PM


Zaraki was the same person before and after their first battle. He liked to fighting strong opponents then, he still does now. There was no difference.

Thats wrong, though. He didnt like fighting strong opponents before because he had literally not met a single opponent strong enough before Unohana came along.

 


1. Unohana flat-out said Zaraki won the match, and that was after he started subconsciously holding back on her.

Yeah? And Zaraki said Ichigo won against him as well. Theres a difference on how these people interpret battles, and how we interpret battles. Zaraki didnt believe he won.

 


2. No he did not, because he realized he and Unohana were nothing alike.

He did in his head, thats what matters here.

 


Zaraki modelled himself after someone who didn't exist. That's why he was surprised to find out she used hidden weapons, which he considered a cheap tactic.

But thats literally Big Boss' character development. 

 


It wasn't the fact that her look had changed, Keitaro couldn't remember who the girl was period. All he remembered was the promise he made to them.

Yeah, right.

 

Why are you even providing examples for the exception? It doesnt matter how many examples you could think off when theres are a million that oppose it. Love Hina is a dumb ass manga thats full of stupid slice of life cliches and the people being compared are nothing alike whatsoever. Youre comparing a dumb childhood promise to a gruesome and bloody fight. 

 


Not necessarily, especially if there was anything clouding his memory of her.

What was clounding her memory? When did Kenpachi ever looked like he had some sort of amnesia at all? Youre just pushing a head cannon with literally no evidence to back any of this up. Its not in the manga.

 


It was never said why she joined the 4th division, or how she went from murderous rampages to being 'Dr. Quinn'.

Its incredible how you just throw Love Hina into the discussion, yet when im saying anything i got to quote the manga. Your entire premise is not contained within naked human perception in the manga, so why does the burden of proof fall onto me?

 


Which would mean he never really knew her, so he couldn't model himself after her.

Youre not really following the discussion, are you? He moddled himself of what he thought was her. It doesnt matter who she really was, but who she seemed like at the time. Thats what the word impression means.

 


he didn't realize it was her, until she showed him the scar he'd given her in their first match.

Youre literally making this up. There was no sign of any doubt or suprise in Kenpachis expressions or words. In fact, Kenpachi remarks on the fact that, if it werent for their strenght, both him and Unohana would have been mere criminals, which means that he knew about Unohanas strenght very well, and that was before he saw her scar. 

 

Heres the chapter in question:

http://www.mangaread...t/bleach/523/13

 

Ill be glad if you could point out anything at all that would serve as evidence of your premise.


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#28 Tom Ace

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Posted 03 April 2016 - 06:28 PM

Surprised no one has posted here yet.

 

I was thinking that maybe Yachiru's "shikai" monsters are physical representations of Zaraki's Shikai (the fuzzy one as the tassel, holding the cleaver) and the hollow one being the Bankai holding that blade.

 

Going by the name Nozarashi then maybe his bankai has an acid like affect?

 

Just throwing ideas out there. 



#29 kenkage

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 07:38 AM

Kenpachi's bankai probably has an ability similar to Nimaya's sword that can cut anything.

Edited by kenkage, 04 April 2016 - 07:39 AM.

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#30 grimmjow16

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 07:20 AM

This is probably what Central 46 was afraid of the moment Shunsui went to them with the idea of "awakening" Zaraki.


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#31 Giru

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 07:43 AM

This is probably what Central 46 was afraid of the moment Shunsui went to them with the idea of "awakening" Zaraki.

 

 

Clearly.

 

I hope we'll see Shunsui next week. Maybe he has something planned in case this happens... I'm sure Yamaji and some other people were well aware that unlocking Zaraki's power could be really dangerous and lead to something like this.

 

We'll have to see if Zaraki will be able to control himself or if the Shinigamis will have to fight him. Would be fun if they'll need to seal him in Hell, but that stretching a bit too far.



#32 grimmjow16

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 07:49 AM

Clearly.

 

I hope we'll see Shunsui next week. Maybe he has something planned in case this happens... I'm sure Yamaji and some other people were well aware that unlocking Zaraki's power could be really dangerous and lead to something like this.

 

We'll have to see if Zaraki will be able to control himself or if the Shinigamis will have to fight him. Would be fun if they'll need to seal him in Hell, but that stretching a bit too far.

From the looks of it, and just going off the feel of the Chapter, Zaraki probably won't be able to tell friend from foe.

 

In previous chapters he was actually bantering back and forth with Nazi Quincy Thor, but throughout this entire Chapter he's done nothing but grunt and growl which makes it seem like he's nothing more than a wild animal. In true berseker fashion, he's given into animal instincts and has been completely taken over by the heat of the battle. If he doesn't try to murder the Shinigami next week I will be severely disappointment.

 

As for a contingency plan. Ikkaku and Yumichika talking some sense into Zaraki seems to be the best bet at this point. He's also shared moments with Byakuya so maybe he'll be able to do it, or maybe Shunsui senses a disturbance in the force and shows up with one of the Quincy Bankai sealing medallions because Zaraki's power is too dangerous to be left unchecked.


Edited by grimmjow16, 07 April 2016 - 07:50 AM.

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#33 Tom Ace

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 10:00 AM

From the looks of it, and just going off the feel of the Chapter, Zaraki probably won't be able to tell friend from foe.

 

In previous chapters he was actually bantering back and forth with Nazi Quincy Thor, but throughout this entire Chapter he's done nothing but grunt and growl which makes it seem like he's nothing more than a wild animal. In true berseker fashion, he's given into animal instincts and has been completely taken over by the heat of the battle. If he doesn't try to murder the Shinigami next week I will be severely disappointment.

 

As for a contingency plan. Ikkaku and Yumichika talking some sense into Zaraki seems to be the best bet at this point. He's also shared moments with Byakuya so maybe he'll be able to do it, or maybe Shunsui senses a disturbance in the force and shows up with one of the Quincy Bankai sealing medallions because Zaraki's power is too dangerous to be left unchecked.

 

The user of the medallion need a power level close, equal or greater to hold onto the bankai, right? 



#34 grimmjow16

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 12:52 PM

The user of the medallion need a power level close, equal or greater to hold onto the bankai, right?

I highly doubt we've even scratched the surface of Shunsui's true power. He just has a bad match up in Lille.

Shunsui seems to be a tactical fighter. He relies more on setting traps and exploiting weakness rather than going full throttle from the start. Like Urahara he seems to be a step ahead of his opponent. I'm almost positive he wouldn't unleash this beast upon Soul Society without a way to get it back in its cage once the usefulness ran out.

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#35 Tom Ace

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 01:08 PM

I highly doubt we've even scratched the surface of Shunsui's true power. He just has a bad match up in Lille.

Shunsui seems to be a tactical fighter. He relies more on setting traps and exploiting weakness rather than going full throttle from the start. Like Urahara he seems to be a step ahead of his opponent. I'm almost positive he wouldn't unleash this beast upon Soul Society without a way to get it back in its cage once the usefulness ran out.

 

Possible i suppose, though we aren't sure Zaraki's in Bankai yet, or the full version of it, with the lack of  calling it's name and all.



#36 grimmjow16

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 01:28 PM

Possible i suppose, though we aren't sure Zaraki's in Bankai yet, or the full version of it, with the lack of  calling it's name and all.

Can't really call it's name if you no longer possess the mental faculties to speak like a normal person :aww:

He's pure animal now.

Feral Kenpachi :aww:


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#37 rocconorth

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 02:03 PM

Even though Kubo's been known to do chapters with very little dialogue and vague explanations, I think this chapter was very intentionally that for a reason.  I don't know what it is as of yet, but this was even more baffling than Unohana's bankai.  I don't know why, but I think that in the coming chapters we're going to get some clarification on both of them.  I see a fb to the end of his fight with Unohana and him "hearing" the voice of his sword.  I don't think it's a coincidence that both him and Unohana have had the most wtf bankai's, and I think Kubo is going to give them their respective explanations at the same time.


Edited by rocconorth, 07 April 2016 - 02:03 PM.

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#38 Tom Ace

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 02:10 PM

Even though Kubo's been known to do chapters with very little dialogue and vague explanations, I think this chapter was very intentionally that for a reason.  I don't know what it is as of yet, but this was even more baffling than Unohana's bankai.  I don't know why, but I think that in the coming chapters we're going to get some clarification on both of them.  I see a fb to the end of his fight with Unohana and him "hearing" the voice of his sword.  I don't think it's a coincidence that both him and Unohana have had the most wtf bankai's, and I think Kubo is going to give them their respective explanations at the same time.

 

It would be nice but i'm not betting on it.

 

I think it's coming down to how much Kubo is wanting to rush Bleach to the ending.



#39 Godpachi

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 08:24 PM

My demon God~ uwu


RIP Satan

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#40 Red Opus

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 08:31 PM

I don't think there was ever a chapter named Yaiba....why is there a Yaiba 2?

I like Onipachi for this bankaii name.....
Feralpachi?
Godkillerpachi?
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