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[Character] Donquixote Doflamingo (Part 12)


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#1 Petite Fleur

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:11 AM

Previous Thread

 

luffy_saves_law_from_doflamingo_by_weiss

 

Last few posts;

That's a meaningless point to say cause the Yonkou here is old WB to begin with anw. ''Sickness'' is enough.

 

 

 

 

In the manga (not sure about the CoO)? WB clearly attacked Akainu from behind...

 

 

 

 

Only when the hits land and apparently, WB only managed that when suckerpunched Akainu.

 

 

 

 

What? We haven't seen other Yonkou Commanders fighting, how do you know that?

 

 

 

 

Since when are DD, Boa, Kuma, Sabo Yonkou Commander-level?

 

 

 

 

Marco has his fruit and due to its special ability, not having scratch is not at all a point here (Jozu is okay).

 

 

 

 

Thanks to blindsided attack...just like his Pop...

 

 

Doesn't change the fact that the greatest reason why WB was beaten was old age. Akainu himself said it.

 

 

 

And Akainu clearly knew WB was behind him, that's why there is a little bubble with an exclamation mark in it before WB even begins to throw the punch. It's called CoO. If he couldn't realize it in time, that's his fault.

 

 

 

Really? He sucker punched Akainu twice? Cool story bro.

WB only managed that when he was so fucking angry that his haki was actually working. AKA, the only time in the entire war where he was actually at his real level (considering his age). Maybe that's what you meant to say.

 

 

 

Why not? It's his fruit, his ability, his power. Should we start taking abilities away from characters? Garp hurt Marco, and left him with bruises on the face. Kizaru didn't.

 

Cool story. How did Aokiji beat Jozu again? Oh right...

 

 

Jozu hit Kuzan when Kuzan wasn't paying attention either. The difference between those distracted hits is a tiny lip wound versus Jozu losing an arm and the fight.


 

 

 

 

You'll be more mad when you hear that I think Boa, DD and Mihawk are all admiral tier. DD at least, because he could fodderize Jozu, is above top commander tier even if he is under admiral tier. 3:

 

 

 

 

I don't. Jozu caught Kuzan unawares to open their fight and did almost nothing - Kuzan returned the favor to end the fight.

 

 

Because of DF, not their actual power. Kuzan's DF is one the deadliest, while Jozu's isn't. Getting distracted while fighting Jozu isn't as bad as getting distracted while fighting Kuzan because of their DFs. Jozu can only beat you up, while Kuzan can one shot pretty much anyone.

 

 

That doesn't mean that their fight did.

 

 

 

 

 

Jozu hit a Kuzan that wasn't focused on him and did the one damage. Kuzan hit a Jozu that wasn't focused and took his arm away.

 

 

 

 

Not true. Kizaru was shown to be superior. The difference in that fight is that Kizaru was taking away Marco's regeneration - he was doing the equivalent of hurting Marco. Meanwhile, marco did the nothing. He performed worse than Jozu.

 

 

 

 

That's not what a clear match is. Sabo was also inferior, could do nothing and land no blows. If you don't ever hit, harm or get near an opponent? You're not a clear match for them. It's like saying Usopp was a clear match for Luffy because he didn't lose immediately.

 

 

 

 

WB was after seeing Ace die. He was admiral fodderizin' mode after that event. The rest are just weaklings.


 

 

 

 

Because magic, obviously.


 

So what you're saying is that they were fodder to the admirals, stood no chance, and it goes deeper than just them being inferior - they're also fundamentally unable to beat such powerful devil fruits?

 

I mean, Doflamingo got frozen and just broke out of it. So it Whitebeard. Seems to me that Jozu is just weak.


Edited by Petite Fleur, 31 March 2015 - 09:13 AM.

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#2 retroluffy13

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:26 AM

So what you're saying is that they were fodder to the admirals, stood no chance, and it goes deeper than just them being inferior - they're also fundamentally unable to beat such powerful devil fruits?

I mean, Doflamingo got frozen and just broke out of it. So it Whitebeard. Seems to me that Jozu is just weak.

not necessarily. theres one key thing people fail to realize when it comes to jozu. he is a diamond man, meaning that its possible that when he's frozen he gets frozen to the very core. essentially, his diamond becomes frozen in place without an internal temperature to combat the freeze. dd though, when he was frozen, wasn't frozen to the core. he till had a bit of heat that he used to thaw himself out enough to move and crack his would be prison. with jozu however, the possibility exists he cant do the same thing cuz hes a cold rock and not a fleshy bottle of water with heat generation properties.

 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

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#3 Fulmine

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:36 AM


Doesn't change the fact that the greatest reason why WB was beaten was old age. Akainu himself said it.

My point is such a fact is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Never said it was not a fact or something.

 

 


And Akainu clearly knew WB was behind him, that's why there is a little bubble with an exclamation mark in it before WB even begins to throw the punch. It's called CoO. If he couldn't realize it in time, that's his fault.

So? Realizing something is behind does not change the fact that the attack is from behind ...it's like you're being shot by a ball from behind. Right before it hits you you see it but can't react. But you can't really say the goalkeeper is bad when the guy shot it behind him...now if the other guy shot it in front of him aka penalty then you may have a point

 

 


Really? He sucker punched Akainu twice? Cool story bro.

I said twice when? What I meant is thanks to the suckerpunch, WB got the upper hand and the other hits followed. Had it not been for that suckerpunch, things would not have happened as they did.

 

 


WB only managed that when he was so fucking angry that his haki was actually working. AKA, the only time in the entire war where he was actually at his real level (considering his age). Maybe that's what you meant to say.

real level or even higher than normal?

 

Against a not angry Akainu...let say Akainu was also angry and WB actually punched him from the front where Akainu could see it (fair fight for short)...

 

 


Why not? It's his fruit, his ability, his power. Should we start taking abilities away from characters?

 

Garp hurt Marco, and left him with bruises on the face. Kizaru didn't.

I don't mean that. But due to his fruit's ability, scratch is not a great way to prove something. Say, EastBlueUssop can eat the same fruit, throw his shooting devices away and fight MFLuffy barehanded and keep regenerated and when the fruit reaches its limit, he's one-shot. In the whole course of the fight, he can't even touch Luffy once and gets hit all the time. Say such fight takes 2 hours to finish. Do we say ''Usopp is such a great fighter. Luffy can't put a scratch on him until 2 hours are up hence they are very close''? No...because EastBlueUsopp sucks as a fighter and MFLuffy completely stomped him and the only reason he has no scratch is because of his fruit...

Of course, we can't take the fruit away from EastBlueUsopp. If he had it then he had it. And we can't say EastBlueUsopp weak because with that fruit, he can stomp a lot of fighters in One Piece world. But you have to realize how such fruit renders the ''scratch'' argument invalid. On the other hand, Marco kicks Kizaru away, he did touch him, and that kick...did nothing...

 

Garp punched Marco when Marco didn't pay attention. In the same situation, Kizaru made Marco bleed badly.

 

 


Cool story. How did Aokiji beat Jozu again? Oh right...

This is exactly what I'm waiting for. You are being double standard-ish. Can't have it both ways.

 

If both Jozu and Aokiji did damage on the other by blindsided attacks, then see who did more damage? Aokiji. He took Jozu's arm from him and frozen the guy. While all Jozu did (with his Pop, WB the WSM, helping him occupying Aokiji) is bursting Aokiji's lips...

 

But you choose to ignore that and remember only Jozu's blindsided attack...when you are criticizing blindsided attack from Aokiji...

 

 


he gets frozen to the very core. essentially, his diamond becomes frozen in place without an internal temperature to combat the freeze

Where did you see him fully transform?...


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#4 Petite Fleur

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:45 AM


not necessarily. theres one key thing people fail to realize when it comes to jozu. he is a diamond man, meaning that its possible that when he's frozen he gets frozen to the very core.

 

Only his diamond bits, and that wouldn't stop him from using haki because he'd still have a diamond body and a true body. His brain could be diamond, and he'd still be capable of thought because of that fact.

 


essentially, his diamond becomes frozen in place without an internal temperature to combat the freeze. dd though, when he was frozen, wasn't frozen to the core. he till had a bit of heat that he used to thaw himself out enough to move and crack his would be prison.

 

DD just used CoA that was capable of breaking shit, and Jozu couldn't because he's that inferior.


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#5 retroluffy13

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:52 AM

My point is such a fact is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Never said it was not a fact or something.
 
 
 
 
So? Realizing something is behind does not change the fact that the attack is from behind ...it's like you're being shot by a ball from behind. Right before it hits you you see it but can't react. But you can't really say the goalkeeper is bad when the guy shot it behind him...now if the other guy shot it in front of him aka penalty then you may have a point
 
 
 
 
I said twice when? What I meant is thanks to the suckerpunch, WB got the upper hand and the other hits followed. Had it not been for that suckerpunch, things would not have happened as they did.
 
 
 
 
real level or even higher than normal?
 
Against a not angry Akainu...let say Akainu was also angry and WB actually punched him from the front where Akainu could see it (fair fight for short)...
 
 
 
 
I don't mean that. But due to his fruit's ability, scratch is not a great way to prove something. Say, EastBlueUssop can eat the same fruit, throw his shooting devices away and fight MFLuffy barehanded and keep regenerated and when the fruit reaches its limit, he's one-shot. In the whole course of the fight, he can't even touch Luffy once and gets hit all the time. Say such fight takes 2 hours to finish. Do we say ''Usopp is such a great fighter. Luffy can't put a scratch on him until 2 hours are up hence they are very close''? No...because EastBlueUsopp sucks as a fighter and MFLuffy completely stomped him and the only reason he has no scratch is because of his fruit...
Of course, we can't take the fruit away from EastBlueUsopp. If he had it then he had it. And we can't say EastBlueUsopp weak because with that fruit, he can stomp a lot of fighters in One Piece world. But you have to realize how such fruit renders the ''scratch'' argument invalid. On the other hand, Marco kicks Kizaru away, he did touch him, and that kick...did nothing...
 
Garp punched Marco when Marco didn't pay attention. In the same situation, Kizaru made Marco bleed badly.
 
 
 
 
This is exactly what I'm waiting for. You are being double standard-ish. Can't have it both ways.
 
If both Jozu and Aokiji did damage on the other by blindsided attacks, then see who did more damage? Aokiji. He took Jozu's arm from him and frozen the guy. While all Jozu did (with his Pop, WB the WSM, helping him occupying Aokiji) is bursting Aokiji's lips...
 
But you choose to ignore that and remember only Jozu's blindsided attack...when you are criticizing blindsided attack from Aokiji...
 
 
 
 
Where did you see him fully transform?...

well, whenever he transformed, he became seethrough. I think that implies his entire body is diamond.

then again I have no I
dea how his power is supposed to work. is he always diamond or only when hes see through?

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when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.


#6 Fulmine

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:53 AM


well, whenever he transformed, he became seethrough. I think that implies his entire body is diamond.

only his arm...


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#7 retroluffy13

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:54 AM

only his arm...

he did a half body transformatzion to block mihawk.

Edited by retroluffy13, 31 March 2015 - 09:54 AM.

 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

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when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.


#8 Fulmine

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:58 AM

he did a half body transformatzion to block mihawk.

I thought we were talking about Jozu vs Aokiji and being frozen? And even if I'
m being generous with you, half transformation is not full transformation so why the hell were you talking nonsense about not having heat generation or whatever?...


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#9 Strobacaxi

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 11:46 AM


So? Realizing something is behind does not change the fact that the attack is from behind ...it's like you're being shot by a ball from behind. Right before it hits you you see it but can't react. But you can't really say the goalkeeper is bad when the guy shot it behind him...now if the other guy shot it in front of him aka penalty then you may have a point

If the goalkeeper had an ability that allowed him to predict where, how and when the ball was going to go, then yes, I would say the goalkeeper is bad. Very bad actually.

 


I said twice when? What I meant is thanks to the suckerpunch, WB got the upper hand and the other hits followed. Had it not been for that suckerpunch, things would not have happened as they did.

The sucker punch didn't give him the upper hand, like Meitou didn't give Akainu the upper hand. The second punch was what fucked Akainu up bad, and that was because the only way Akainu had to hurt WB was to leave himself vulnerable to WB's attacks.

 


real level or even higher than normal?
 
Against a not angry Akainu...let say Akainu was also angry and WB actually punched him from the front where Akainu could see it (fair fight for short)...

IMO, real level. HE was too hurt/ill to become stronger than he was in his clash against Shanks for example just from rage-CoA.

 

WB is a pirate, and fair fights don't exist in OP. If a fair fight doesn't allow WB to take advantage of Akainu's lack of focus, then a fair fight wouldn't allow Akainu to take advantage of WB's heart attack.

Akainu is in his prime. WB was very far from it. Akainu's willpower is probably at it's max, especially considering he was angry. He's always angry when it comes to pirates. The man wanted to kill every last one of them no matter the cost. If that's not angry, then I don't know what is.

 


I don't mean that. But due to his fruit's ability, scratch is not a great way to prove something. Say, EastBlueUssop can eat the same fruit, throw his shooting devices away and fight MFLuffy barehanded and keep regenerated and when the fruit reaches its limit, he's one-shot. In the whole course of the fight, he can't even touch Luffy once and gets hit all the time. Say such fight takes 2 hours to finish. Do we say ''Usopp is such a great fighter. Luffy can't put a scratch on him until 2 hours are up hence they are very close''? No...because EastBlueUsopp sucks as a fighter and MFLuffy completely stomped him and the only reason he has no scratch is because of his fruit...
Of course, we can't take the fruit away from EastBlueUsopp. If he had it then he had it. And we can't say EastBlueUsopp weak because with that fruit, he can stomp a lot of fighters in One Piece world. But you have to realize how such fruit renders the ''scratch'' argument invalid. On the other hand, Marco kicks Kizaru away, he did touch him, and that kick...did nothing...
 
Garp punched Marco when Marco didn't pay attention. In the same situation, Kizaru made Marco bleed badly.

 

But that's not a good comparison. Usopp wouldn't be able to touch Luffy, Marco was perfectly able to touch Kizaru. Usopp wouldn't be able to do anything at all, Marco clearly could. The fight wasn't Kizaru beating the shit out of Marco, while Marco did nothing to Kizaru, that's not how it went. Although Marco didn't leave any marks on Kizaru, he was fighting him well, and both of them got hits in. And both of them were able to shrug them off.

 


This is exactly what I'm waiting for. You are being double standard-ish. Can't have it both ways.
 
If both Jozu and Aokiji did damage on the other by blindsided attacks, then see who did more damage? Aokiji. He took Jozu's arm from him and frozen the guy. While all Jozu did (with his Pop, WB the WSM, helping him occupying Aokiji) is bursting Aokiji's lips...
 
But you choose to ignore that and remember only Jozu's blindsided attack...when you are criticizing blindsided attack from Aokiji...

I'm not ignoring anything. I simply don't think we should compare two blindsided attacks and declare one fighter is stronger than the other based on how much damage they got in.

Luffy and Law both got one free hit on DD. Luffy's did virtually nothing, while Law's fucked DD up real bad and almost killed him. Should we compare these attacks and say Law is extremely stronger than Luffy, or that Luffy isn't on Law's level?


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#10 Fleet

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 11:50 AM

Luffy and Law both got one free hit on DD. Luffy's did virtually nothing, while Law's fucked DD up real bad and almost killed him. Should we compare these attacks and say Law is extremely stronger than Luffy, or that Luffy isn't on Law's level?


Law hit Doflamingo in a position that Luffy had already weakened with Red Hawk. And Red Hawk blasted Doffy off his feet and caused internal bleeding. Hardly "virtually nothing."

#11 retroluffy13

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 12:08 PM

I thought we were talking about Jozu vs Aokiji and being frozen? And even if I'
m being generous with you, half transformation is not full transformation so why the hell were you talking nonsense about not having heat generation or whatever?...

you only miss the light when its burning low
only miss the sun when it starts to snow.
only know you love her when you let her go.....

you only know you've been high when your feeling low.
only hate the road when your missing home
only know you love her when you let her go....

you do realize there was plenty of fight during the times we weren't watching right?
besides. why are you assuming that jozu isn't always diamond? weve never sen him get hitand react like he was flesh so...

Edited by retroluffy13, 31 March 2015 - 12:09 PM.

 this is a music video I made for a friend of mine.  give it a listen.  the visuals are pretty dope

Spoiler


also some ear kandy
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when you love something..  and I mean. really love it.  you fight for it for as long as you can until you cant stand any longer.  then when its all said and done, walk away with a smile hoping you did right.


#12 Fulmine

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 12:12 PM


you only miss the light when its burning low
only miss the sun when it starts to snow.
only know you love her when you let her go.....

you only know you've been high when your feeling low.
only hate the road when your missing home
only know you love her when you let her go....

I recall your face is a little like the singer...

 

 

 

 


you do realize there was plenty of fight during the times we weren't watching right?

And why do I have to care about that when all we're talking about is Jozu vs Aokiji's crucial moment where one froze the other?...

 

 

 

 


besides. why are you assuming that jozu isn't always diamond? weve never sen him get hitand react like he was flesh so...

Because he isn't. We see it...


Edited by Fulmine, 31 March 2015 - 12:12 PM.

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#13 Fulmine

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 12:49 PM


If the goalkeeper had an ability that allowed him to predict where, how and when the ball was going to go, then yes, I would say the goalkeeper is bad. Very bad actually.

But Akainu never showed CoO? VA or above has Haki but it is not said they would have all types.

 

And second, okay, even if he has it, so he's bad/not proficient in CoO, like many in the manga. Still does not hurt my point that WB hit him from behind when he didn't know until too late...

 

 


The sucker punch didn't give him the upper hand, like Meitou didn't give Akainu the upper hand. The second punch was what fucked Akainu up bad, and that was because the only way Akainu had to hurt WB was to leave himself vulnerable to WB's attacks.

Yeah, because the guy was not in a bad position, like sitting/lying on the ground thanks to the first punch? And point is if not for the first punch, none of that would happen and neither can injure the other.

 

LOL, what imagination. If that was the case, he wouldn't have turned his head...

 


HE was too hurt/ill to become stronger than he was in his clash against Shanks for example just from rage-CoA.

I don't see the logic behind this...and that means Shanks can fuck up Akainu the same way?

 

 


WB is a pirate, and fair fights don't exist in OP. If a fair fight doesn't allow WB to take advantage of Akainu's lack of focus, then a fair fight wouldn't allow Akainu to take advantage of WB's heart attack.

I never said anything about Akainu hurting WB thanks to the hear attack...only make sure people don't mistake WB blindsiding Akainu as WB fodderizing Akainu. never deny Akainu did that thanks to heart attack either...

 

 


Akainu is in his prime. WB was very far from it.

 

 

Akainu's willpower is probably at it's max, especially considering he was angry. He's always angry when it comes to pirates. The man wanted to kill every last one of them no matter the cost. If that's not angry, then I don't know what is.

Again, irrelevant fact. We're talking about Old WB here.

 

Yeah, inventing things to suit your argument? Akainu hates pirates but that does not mean he's angry all the time. He laughed talking about lighting up WB's funeral and he was just triumphantly took Ace's life...hardly angry there...serious, sure. And that's doing his job/goal/justice. Polices don't have to be angry when catching drug dealers. But they can be serious and want finish their job properly at all cost.

 

 


Marco was perfectly able to touch Kizaru.

Marco clearly could.

And as I said, that does not harm Kizaru in anw...and since you have said ''fair fights don't exist in OP'', I think you should just accept Kizaru>Marco.

 

 


The fight wasn't Kizaru beating the shit out of Marco, while Marco did nothing to Kizaru, that's not how it went.

How do you know? Because no scratch? Again, his fruit.

I'm not saying I know either, but at the end of the day, Marco proves nothing over Kizaru while Kizaru caught him and you just said ''fair fights don't exist in OP''

 

 


I'm not ignoring anything. I simply don't think we should compare two blindsided attacks and declare one fighter is stronger than the other based on how much damage they got in.

Luffy and Law both got one free hit on DD. Luffy's did virtually nothing, while Law's fucked DD up real bad and almost killed him. Should we compare these attacks and say Law is extremely stronger than Luffy, or that Luffy isn't on Law's level?

True, but ''fair fights don't exist in OP''...

 

That can be a debate itself. I wouldn't say that conclusion is far-fetched as far as real feats go though. Law really, again and again, has a huge arsenal with all sorts of powers to deal with variety of opponents...


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#14 capu

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 02:36 PM

1.)

You'll be more mad when you hear that I think Boa, DD and Mihawk are all admiral tier. DD at least, because he could fodderize Jozu, is above top commander tier even if he is under admiral tier. 3:

 

2.)

I don't. Jozu caught Kuzan unawares to open their fight and did almost nothing - Kuzan returned the favor to end the fight.

Mad? Not in the least. Moreover for me your upgrading of some characters (Boa) is not anywhere near your downgrading. As long as it is halfly (with a lot of imagination though) understandable where you come from i am good. Shall anyone believe what makes him/her happy.

I disagree with comparison DD <--> Jozu though. Last time i checked DD was only capable of holding Jozu and nothing more all his attacks (all he did, no matter what he else he could do) are for naught since he cant penetrate Jozus defense, sry Petite but you loose this one. Diamond needs a swordsman of high caliber to be penetrated on not a mere thread of someone that will get defeated by mere 400 mill guys.

 

2.) well played madame, still think your wrong but i appreciate good counters, nice one

 

@Fulmine

are u really claiming WB is such a bad child because he attacked a admiral (who needed trickery until he dared to fight WB) from behind. Such a ..... claim since for gods sake a is a mother..... pirate!

So what in all battles to the death it does not matter where u attack from but that u defeat ur enemy! Thus i am fine that akainu is a coward not daring to fight an old sick man without using trickery and i am fine that WB attacks from behind, seemingly you are not.....


Edited by capu, 31 March 2015 - 02:46 PM.


#15 Petite Fleur

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 02:46 PM


Last time i checked DD was only capable of holding Jozu and nothing more all his attacks (all he did, no matter what he else he could do) are for naught since he cant penetrate Jozus defense,

 

Counts as fodderizing. If Jozu can never win ever, and can only be made into a puppet, then he's fodder to Jozu.


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#16 Fulmine

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 02:48 PM


@Fulmine

are u really claiming WB is such a bad child because he attacked a admiral (who needed trickery until he dared to fight WB) from behind. Such a ..... claim since for gods sake a is a mother..... pirate!

So what in all battles to the death it does not matter where u attack from but that u defeat ur enemy! Thus i am fine that akainu is a coward not daring to fight an old sick man without using trickery and i am fine that WB attacks from behind, seemingly you are not.....

And you're wrong. I'm completely fine. The point here is would result alone determine who's really stronger? It's a debate about who's stronger, not who's more effective. I'm simply calling out those double-standard posters who refuse to accept Marco and Jozu are weaker than the Admirals but at the same time defend WB with ''fair fights don't exist''...they can't have it both ways. And clearly if you read my posts carefully you can see that...


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#17 Sloan

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 02:57 PM

It doesn't matter if DD can only hold Joxu down, Parasite uses only one hand. He could have easily put a string bullet in Jozu's face with the other hand(Let's say his back for realistic purposes).

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#18 tenchu

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 03:00 PM

isn't this doflamingo's thread then why the pic is about luffy stopping him?. This pic seems more adequate for luffy' thread


Edited by tenchu, 31 March 2015 - 03:01 PM.

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#19 Petite Fleur

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 03:03 PM

isn't this doflamingo's thread then why the pic is about luffy stopping him?. This pic seems more adequate for luffy' thread

Because I really liked that panel from the chapter.


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#20 tenchu

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 03:10 PM

Because I really liked that panel from the chapter.

it's not about what you like which is making luffy look good of course, It's about this being Doflamingo's thread and representing what he's about. 


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