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Nuclear Deal with Iran


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#1 Oben

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 05:08 AM

So yes. This just happened, and there's a lot to discuss.

 

Yesterday (April 2nd), Iran agreed with the P5+1 (Russia, US, GB, France, China + Germany) on thoroughly restricting its nuclear program to limited civil means (and stopping to aim for nuclear weapons) in exchange for lifting nuclear-related sanctions. It's not set in stone yet, but it has already been described as an historical break-through.

 

- Is it a good thing?

- Will it hold?

- Will Iran actually follow the premises after sanctions are lifted? If not, could it get dangerous?

- How will it affect geopolitics? What reactions will it cause in the region and around the globe?

 

Please don't turn this thread into something purely discussing America.



#2 Nmaan

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 05:49 AM

Assuming there isn't interference from a certain party, it will most likely hold and be a good thing. Stability in the ME is pretty much key to stability in the world, having a good solid power supply for one of the major players which in turn will mean growth for said player is a good way to build a start point for that stability.


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#3 tattaslayr

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 08:10 AM

Why should other countries be allowed to have Nuclear energy and Iran not? I don't agree with Iran's ideals at all. They're a scary bunch sometimes but this prevention bullcrap is ridicilous. To me it's like a bunch of countries are bullying another one because they don't want it to be on the same level as them. 


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#4 DarkNemesis

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 08:37 AM

It seems the PEOPLE of Iran wanted this nuke deal more than anyone else did, at least going by the videos I saw on CNN. Iran as a regional power is going to happen no matter what. Since Iran will be negotiating the treaty for themselves, then in theory they will have terms that are acceptable. So there should be no reason why they would break it in any way. Iran is as modern a country as any other Western country. And treating it as otherwise is not in the best interest of anyone.

Now I need to read exactly what is in this agreement before making more comments.


Edited by DarkNemesis, 03 April 2015 - 09:17 AM.

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#5 Peleihno

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 09:37 AM

I'm interested in how the Saudis will react, and by interested, I mean worried -- what with Yemen and all that fun stuff. 


 

Why should other countries be allowed to have Nuclear energy and Iran not? I don't agree with Iran's ideals at all. They're a scary bunch sometimes but this prevention bullcrap is ridicilous. To me it's like a bunch of countries are bullying another one because they don't want it to be on the same level as them. 

Iran getting nukes doesn't put it on anywhere near the same level as the world powers, this is more about the balance of power in the region. 

 

Nothing wrong with bullying theocratic crap-holes. 


Edited by Peleihno, 03 April 2015 - 09:38 AM.

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#6 DarkNemesis

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 09:51 AM


Nothing wrong with bullying theocratic crap-holes.


I don't pretend to know the intracacies of Iranian politics. However, even if they are a theocracy, Iran is probably one of the most modern countries in that region. And that's going by Western standards and the little I've seen. So are you really worried about Iran being a theocracy and having nuclear power (of any sort)? Or is there something about the theocracy of Iran that you find truly distasteful?

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#7 Peleihno

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 10:03 AM

I don't pretend to know the intracacies of Iranian politics. However, even if they are a theocracy, Iran is probably one of the most modern countries in that region. And that's going by Western standards and the little I've seen. So are you really worried about Iran being a theocracy and having nuclear power (of any sort)? Or is there something about the theocracy of Iran that you find truly distasteful?

@bold: This is very true, I'll give you that, but the standard is set very low. 

 

As for your question, both, I have an intense hate for theocrats -- it doesn't matter what religion they are. Bullying them is no problem to me. Now we're gonna have some theocratic regime gain nuclear capability, which will no doubt give rise to another, Saudi Arabia, who will look to offset Iranian nuclear power in the coming years. However, I'm happy we worked something out, it could have gone far worse and I was pretty annoyed with war hawks that wanted to invade Iran because of their nuclear program. Because what we need is another Iraq, right? Crush the regime, pretend like we want to rebuild the country, and turn a mess of a nation into an even bigger one while lining the pockets of private entities is not my idea of sound foreign policy. 


Edited by Peleihno, 03 April 2015 - 10:05 AM.

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#8 tattaslayr

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 10:38 AM

Nothing wrong with bullying theocratic crap-holes. 

 

Lol what? So because they see the world differently we should bully them? I'm sure you don't really mean that do you? Because if that's how you want to deal with things I'd suggest you take a look at your own government and parliament. Plenty of republicans over there that could be bullied. Same goes for where I'm from btw. 

 

Anyways as far as I know Iran hasn't harmed any country and hasn't been an aggressor in decades, unlike some other countries we know of who also happen to have nukes and shit lel. Yes they threaten Israel but perhaps that's a good thing. Atleast one country in the world that dares to stand up against Netanyahu and his idiot supporters.

 

edit: I read your previous post and somehow get where you're coming from. But keep one thing in mind. It's been a long long time since we had actual operational countries fight eachother over religion. The only places where that still happens is the real shit holes where people are starving and governments are corrups as hell. Most wars fought in modern time are political and in the future it'll be about resources I guess. I honestly doubt Iran will ever attack Israel or vice versa. Both know the dangers, which is mutual annihilation. And Saudie Arabia is pretty much the USA's doggy. So no worries about them causing trouble untill they run out of oil and water. 


Edited by tattaslayr, 03 April 2015 - 10:55 AM.


#9 Peleihno

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 11:07 AM

Lol what? So because they see the world differently we should bully them?

That's usually how it goes.

I wonder if you'd feel the same if I was speaking of a fascist government, not that one is any worse than the other, both are terrible.
 

I'm sure you don't really mean that do you? Because if that's how you want to deal with things I'd suggest you take a look at your own government and parliament. Plenty of republicans over there that could be bullied. Same goes for where I'm from btw.


We had don't have a parliament. And in case you haven't noticed, American politics is a mess right now, so bullying within the ranks isn't unheard of.

Anyway, I do mean it. Ideally, repressive regimes should be bullied.
 

Anyways as far as I know Iran hasn't harmed any country and hasn't been an aggressor in decades, unlike some other countries we know of who also happen to have nukes and shit lel. Yes they threaten Israel but perhaps that's a good thing. Atleast one country in the world that dares to stand up against Netanyahu and his idiot supporters.

:psyduck: 

Iran is easily one of the biggest sovereign funders and enablers of terrorism around the world, though with foreign sanctions and the Syrian Civil War, it's not what it used to be.

You think Yemen just fell on its' own?

I'm not the biggest fan of Israel, but I take them over the mostly laughable, repressive regimes that surround them every time.


Edited by Peleihno, 03 April 2015 - 11:09 AM.

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#10 tattaslayr

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 12:59 PM

We had don't have a parliament. And in case you haven't noticed, American politics is a mess right now, so bullying within the ranks isn't unheard of.

Anyway, I do mean it. Ideally, repressive regimes should be bullied.

I mean the senate and house of something something. They have the same job as a parliament right? Anyways there are plenty of hatefull, homophobic, and religious idiots in there too. So should we put sanctions on the entire country because of them? Should the people in the USA suffer because of your leaders? No, I don't think so.  

 

 

I wonder if you'd feel the same if I was speaking of a fascist government, not that one is any worse than the other, both are terrible. 

Yes, I would. Take a look at North Korea. It's probably the poorest country in the world and the people over there are suffering. All the sanctions just make their life worse. What use do all these sanctions have anyways? You're aiming for the elite butyou're hitting the poor people. The elite don't give a crap anyways because one way or another they still get what they want.

 

 

 

Iran is easily one of the biggest sovereign funders and enablers of terrorism around the world, though with foreign sanctions and the Syrian Civil War, it's not what it used to be.

You think Yemen just fell on its' own?

Yeah well the same can be said about the war in Libya and Syria where the rebels were funded by the West. Both countries are worse off than they were before. One of the groups that were funded by the West ended up becoming ISIS. there is also Russia who are funding the rebels in Ukraine. China used to fund the Koreans in their war against the West. Then there are the CIA, Mossad, the NSA etc all those secret agencies who specialize in terrorizing and killing people? I wonder how many Iranian researchers Mossad has killed by now? Every single country out there is funding some sort of violent group who's sole purpose is to murder, rape and ruin people's life. Nothing special.  

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not the biggest fan of Israel, but I take them over the mostly laughable, repressive regimes that surround them every time.

Mehh.. I'd put all of them in the same category. Israel is the worst of them all if you look purely at how many innocent people they kill every now and then. 


Edited by tattaslayr, 03 April 2015 - 01:06 PM.


#11 Lone_ant

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 01:11 PM

I'm all for nuclear disarmament. The less countries that have them, the better. I was afraid the Ukrainian crises was going to put a stopper to any hope of this deal.

 

Still it's a shame that it's being used as an excuse to bully other states. If they're really sincere about this, they should start disarming themselves first (current arsenal is still overkill)


Edited by Lone_ant, 03 April 2015 - 01:13 PM.

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#12 Peleihno

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 05:37 PM

I mean the senate and house of something something. They have the same job as a parliament right? Anyways there are plenty of hatefull, homophobic, and religious idiots in there too. So should we put sanctions on the entire country because of them? Should the people in the USA suffer because of your leaders? No, I don't think so.

They are both legislative bodies, yes, but they are entirely different systems of democracy.

It's hard to find any idiots in the US Congress. I'm not sure there is any at the moment. In American politics, in this recent era at least, conservative politicians will play the fool to get votes. As for hateful and homophobic, sure.

You're gonna put sanctions on the USA? You're hilarious and for the pettiness of the US Congress? Bad comparisons aren't gonna get us anywhere.
 

Yes, I would. Take a look at North Korea. It's probably the poorest country in the world and the people over there are suffering. All the sanctions just make their life worse. What use do all these sanctions have anyways? You're aiming for the elite butyou're hitting the poor people. The elite don't give a crap anyways because one way or another they still get what they want.

It's not the poorest. Yes, they are suffering at the hands of their oppressive government.

Well, it's hard to make their lifes any worse, so that's debatable. As for the use of them, to crush the regime and its' power base. It's gone quite well. The elite definitely aren't getting what they want, but I see your point. However, the citizenry always suffers when actions are taken against an oppressive government that has dreams of war and conquest. There's no perfect solution to geopolitical problems where no one gets hurt, you're being unrealistic.

Besides, we try and send aid, their government enjoys screwing that over though to keep the cult alive.
 

Yeah well the same can be said about the war in Libya and Syria where the rebels were funded by the West. Both countries are worse off than they were before. One of the groups that were funded by the West ended up becoming ISIS. there is also Russia who are funding the rebels in Ukraine. China used to fund the Koreans in their war against the West. Then there are the CIA, Mossad, the NSA etc all those secret agencies who specialize in terrorizing and killing people? I wonder how many Iranian researchers Mossad has killed by now? Every single country out there is funding some sort of violent group who's sole purpose is to murder, rape and ruin people's life. Nothing special.


I am, to this day, an opponent to our decision to give arms to the government opposition in Syria. I saw it as a huge mistake, which is what it turned to be. Syria's Civil War is Syria's problem. Also, no, it can't, rebels that fight openly with reasonable tactics and avowed terrorist groups built upon principles of hate and slaughter are not the same thing.

Also, ISIS' origins are more complicated that, yet, no doubt it helped enable the rise of those savages. Like I said, a huge mistake.

Can't say much for Libya, but tyrants are almost always destined to fall, it's just a matter of time.

CIA does not specialize in terrorizing people and never did, also, I don't know why you brought the NSA into this -- they're just the computer guys. The CIA has done terrible stuff, but that's not what they do....though they might help bring people to power that do if we're talking Cold War-era CIA, but that was war, dark times for intelligence agencies.

Mossad had all right to kill off scientists working on weapons for a regime, at one point, dedicated to wiping their nation off the face of the Earth. That is hardly a crime, it's ugly, but a matter of national security.

@bold: Also, definitely not. 

I like how you've just been making excuses trying to paint Iran as some victim, it's absurd.

Mehh.. I'd put all of them in the same category. Israel is the worst of them all if you look purely at how many innocent people they kill every now and then.

Wow.

EDIT: I just want to reiterate to you that I'm not against this nuclear deal. It will probably end up being the best made of a messy situation, I prefer bringing them to the table over less diplomatic means. Just clarifying that.

Edited by Peleihno, 03 April 2015 - 05:48 PM.

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#13 Nmaan

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 05:48 PM


and turn a mess of a nation into an even bigger one while lining the pockets of private entities is not my idea of sound foreign policy. 

 

Iraq wasn't actually a mess, it had high literacy rates, low child mortality, very low obesity, consistent power and clean water and a modest but relatively thriving economy. It's true it was run by a dictator pushed on them by the US, but it was a fairly well run country till false accusations of terrorist acts and WMDs surfaced. 

 

However it's not surprising that you'd think in general your views speak of the misinformation perpetuated by most forms of media.

 

Now given that you hate theocracies and are open to bullying them, why not start a petition to bully the Vatican.

 


I'm not the biggest fan of Israel, but I take them over the mostly laughable, repressive regimes that surround them every time.

 

Right the nation that consistently commits war crimes including but not limited to the use of banned weaponry, illegal settlement, torture and attack of UN hospitals and schools. Solid nation that one. 


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#14 Peleihno

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 06:06 PM

Iraq wasn't actually a mess, it had high literacy rates, low child mortality, very low obesity, consistent power and clean water and a modest but relatively thriving economy. It's true it was run by a dictator pushed on them by the US, but it was a fairly well run country till false accusations of terrorist acts and WMDs surfaced. 
 
However it's not surprising that you'd think in general your views speak of the misinformation perpetuated by most forms of media.
 
Now given that you hate theocracies and are open to bullying them, why not start a petition to bully the Vatican.


Oh, you misunderstand. I think any nation run by a dictator as brutal as Saddam is a mess. Tyranny is tyranny regardless of positive socioeconomic statistics.

Well, Saddam came into power with some help from the USA AND the UK, neither were grand architects of his rise though -- so "pushed on" is a bit of strong phrasing. However, I am not surprised to see a European play the innocent critic.

@bold: This line just oozes pretentiousness, but I failed to clarify, so I guess you couldn't resist. 
 
It goes without saying that the autocrats of the Islamic World kept things together and gave a potent sense of stability, you have no argument there, I agree. 

The Vatican hasn't been any sort of repressive regime in a long time. However, I do have no love for the Catholic Church and, moreover, screwing over the Vatican was a long held dream of much of the USA until a few decades ago. You do bring up an interesting though irrelevant point. 

Right the nation that consistently commits war crimes including but not limited to the use of banned weaponry, illegal settlement, torture and attack of UN hospitals and schools. Solid nation that one.

Well, I did say I wasn't a big fan of Israel, but they're hardly worse than the regimes surrounding them, of which can boast any number of those very wrongs you mentioned.

Edited by Peleihno, 03 April 2015 - 06:09 PM.

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#15 db84x

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 10:15 PM

@Peleihno

So you want USA bankrolled another Israel war like in Iraq ?


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#16 TridentPuff

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 10:29 PM

I like this deal simply because it gets Netanyahu's panties in a bunch. 

 

Iran is not going to attack the United States or Europe even if they get a nuclear weapon, that's all that really matters. 

 

It seems like in America public opinion is finally turning against Israel, and the current administration is definitely NOT their biggest fan, so hopefully if Israel and Iran do duke it out we won't be fighting for them. 


Edited by TridentPuff, 04 April 2015 - 10:33 PM.

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#17 Peleihno

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 11:23 PM

@Peleihno
So you want USA bankrolled another Israel war like in Iraq ?

If you think that, you haven't been reading my posts. I've emphasized that I have no interest in another Iraq.

I'm not sure how Iraq qualifies as an "Israel war," but no, I have no desire for America to smack around another punk nation, waste vast amounts of tax payer dollars, lose thousands of American military lives, destroy countless foreign civilian lives, and displace many more. So, no, I don't want the USA to crush Iran.

If you're not gonna read a person's posts, then don't respond to them. Makes both our lives easier. 

Iran is not going to attack the United States or Europe even if they get a nuclear weapon, that's all that really matters.

Everyone knows this. It's more about regional stability and security.
 

It seems like in America public opinion is finally turning against Israel, and the current administration is definitely NOT their biggest fan, so hopefully if Israel and Iran do duke it out we won't be fighting for them.

Well, there is a greater desire for accountability from a nation we give millions upon millions in military aid amongst other things. They are still a military ally and that's not changing. Do we need to keep them a shorter leash? Yes, a thousand times yes.

Also, Israel would kick Iran's butt. The Iranians would never attack Israel openly these days, that's what their terrorist thugs are for.

Edited by Peleihno, 04 April 2015 - 11:27 PM.

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#18 db84x

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 05:28 AM

Since Israel is powerful why not Israel bomb Iran, Saudi will gladly open their pocket for it since they rich.  ME is well known for their war hobby for millennial, why USA must bankrolled their hobby ?   



#19 kenkage

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 07:51 AM

Since Israel is powerful why not Israel bomb Iran, Saudi will gladly open their pocket for it since they rich.  ME is well known for their war hobby for millennial, why USA must bankrolled their hobby ?

Israel is too small to wage an all out war with Iran so they need the US to spearhead any kind of a major war with Iran (for military and political reasons), the only type of military engagement that Israel would have with iran would be in the form of fast airstikes which would last for the shortest period possible, as for Saudi arabia...they are an arab country, they can't just say something like "we will support Israel financialy" because if they do that then the reputation of the "servant of the two holy mosques" might get really hurt inside his own country and he himself might face an ISIL rebelion , though I have no doubt that the elite of the KSA's wahabis do have secret close relations with israel.

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#20 db84x

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 09:58 AM

Somehow I wonder how much USA politician bribe by Israel until extend they willing made their country broke.  Just let ME war each other like they always done since ancient time, as long as it not threatened USA just let it be.


Edited by db84x, 05 April 2015 - 10:03 AM.





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