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Should hunting be illegal?


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#21 Phenomiracle

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 09:40 AM

Not all hunting is illegal. Hunting deer, rabbits isn't. But it should be. There are ways to get food already. There's little to no reason people hunt deer other than trophy hunting. 

 

Consumption.

 

Though hunting purposes aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. I've hunted a whitetail, ate it, and made a comfy rug out of its hide. Had buckskin bracelets made for my fiancee and sisters.

 

Let's not be presumptuous with our reasoning for banning game. 


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#22 DarkNemesis

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 10:01 AM

Consumption.
 
Though hunting purposes aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. I've hunted a whitetail, ate it, and made a comfy rug out of its hide. Had buckskin bracelets made for my fiancee and sisters.
 
Let's not be presumptuous with our reasoning for banning game.


Now it sounds like we're getting into a "should killing/hunting animals for fur be legal" argument.

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#23 Chillman

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 10:18 AM

Now it sounds like we're getting into a "should killing/hunting animals for fur be legal" argument.


Do you live in the North Pole? Yes.

Are you working for a corporation that wants to put furs on models? No.

#24 Passingby

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 11:21 AM

There are actually plenty of game fishers out there too. They don't eat their catches. They catch it for sport, then release it back to the water. Now it'll be interesting for an argument whether the same can be applied with land animals.

 

Also it's disingenuous to say that you can hunt one animal and the other you cannot because food is already plentiful. The only difference between farmed cattle and deer is that one is on the wild and the other is in a barn.


Edited by Passingby, 31 July 2015 - 11:22 AM.

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#25 DarkNemesis

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 12:28 PM


Also it's disingenuous to say that you can hunt one animal and the other you cannot because food is already plentiful. The only difference between farmed cattle and deer is that one is on the wild and the other is in a barn.

 

There's a market for cattle though. Not wild deer meat.

 

I don't hunt so I could go either way on this. But if you're not hunting animals for the sake of population control or survival (first thought, eskimos), then how do you legitimize hunting animals to non-hunting or anti-hunting folks? I mean killing a whole animal for just the tail, sounds excessive, IMO.


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#26 Misty

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 12:47 PM


Not wild deer meat.


 

I seem to remember reading a lot of prairie lit where eating deer was normal. I also seem to remember my cousins giving us deer meat regularly in the winter. Same for many other families in the area I came up in.  I personally enjoy deer meat a lot. It's difficult to get, sure. But it's tasty. 


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#27 Petite Fleur

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 01:00 PM

There's a market for cattle though. Not wild deer meat.

 

I don't hunt so I could go either way on this. But if you're not hunting animals for the sake of population control or survival (first thought, eskimos), then how do you legitimize hunting animals to non-hunting or anti-hunting folks? I mean killing a whole animal for just the tail, sounds excessive, IMO.

There actually is a market for deer. Venison can be bought in stores all around, and deer farms do exist.


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#28 DarkNemesis

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 01:10 PM

I seem to remember reading a lot of prairie lit where eating deer was normal. I also seem to remember my cousins giving us deer meat regularly in the winter. Same for many other families in the area I came up in.  I personally enjoy deer meat a lot. It's difficult to get, sure. But it's tasty. 

 

Going back to prairie times is a bit different argument. But I get your point. If you live in a place rampant with deer and the deer are closer than the local supermarket, then I can definitely see someone hunting deer for food. But then I would categorize that under 'survival'. Granted I'm assuming that you live in like North or South Dakota, not near a metropolitian city.

 

There actually is a market for deer. Venison can be bought in stores all around, and deer farms do exist.

 

True. And the thought of deer farms didn't cross my mind. But just to be contrary I did say, 'wild deer meat' :)


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#29 Petite Fleur

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 01:14 PM


True. And the thought of deer farms didn't cross my mind. But just to be contrary I did say, 'wild deer meat'

 

Well, it is traditionally game meat, and even the average meat eater isn't aware of the names of different meats or cuts, etc. So I don't blame you, but it is a growing industry, just not as big as cow meat.

 

Though a question comes to mind. Even if one rules it morally wrong to hunt and kill aminals, or to breed and slaughter them as cattle, would they still have the same moral issues with eating meat from an aminal you accidentally killed, such as a deer that you hit with your car by accident?


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#30 Passingby

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 01:15 PM

There's a market for cattle though. Not wild deer meat.

 

I don't hunt so I could go either way on this. But if you're not hunting animals for the sake of population control or survival (first thought, eskimos), then how do you legitimize hunting animals to non-hunting or anti-hunting folks? I mean killing a whole animal for just the tail, sounds excessive, IMO.

 

That is rather an odd argument. There will be market for cattle whether it's on the wild or farmed. The same is true with deer. And no, I've never heard of hunting deer just for its tail. If you're talking about poaching (eg. elephant's ivory, shark's fin) then you have a point. Other than that, both are butchered for consumption.


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#31 DarkNemesis

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 03:08 PM

That is rather an odd argument. There will be market for cattle whether it's on the wild or farmed. The same is true with deer. And no, I've never heard of hunting deer just for its tail. If you're talking about poaching (eg. elephant's ivory, shark's fin) then you have a point. Other than that, both are butchered for consumption.


I was referring to this:

Here, we have a number of different hunters. There are Kangaroo Hunters, who hunt down Kangaroos for their tasty, tasty tail meat,

...

Is hunting Kangaroos morally wrong? No, because there exists no other way to farm their tasty, tasty tail meat. Besides the indigenous australians hunted Roos, and it is much better on the environment (and your health) to eat tasty, tasty Roo tail meat in comparison to Beef or Lamb; both in Land Management, as well as in carbon footprint. (plus there are millions of them)


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#32 Phenomiracle

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 03:35 PM

You'd be drawing lines in sand by trying to effectively carve standards into categorizing hunting intent. Personal, commercial consumption and trophy-gathering aren't necessarily mutually exclusive for all hunters.

 

Ultimately, what I did (and currently do) could be defined as "hunting for sport," since deer meat is sold in my region (though not by many vendors), and I take off into the Pine Barrens with my compound bow chiefly for the thrill of tracking down an animal as graceful and beautiful as a deer. Consuming its meat and making use of its fur/hide are secondary to me, though they are religiously incumbent upon me. 

 

Since I'm in a position to kill only one deer per trip, I often "hunt" several deer throughout my trip for practice, ultimately letting them go, and use my arrow on that last whitetail I find before calling it a day.


Edited by Phenomiracle, 31 July 2015 - 03:42 PM.

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#33 Passingby

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 04:19 PM


You'd be drawing lines in sand by trying to effectively carve standards into categorizing hunting intent. Personal, commercial consumption and trophy-gathering aren't necessarily mutually exclusive for all hunters.

 

There are plenty of hunters who hunt with all three goals in mind. I know hunters who would hunt for sport and at the same time not waste the meat, of course, during hunting season when it's legal, so also fulfilling their niche in the ecosystem. Hunting need not be a controversial hobby when animal husbandry and fishing is another modality of the same activity of meat harvesting. On that note, hunting for sport/trophy need not be any more controversial either. I mean your pet cat would effectively kill birds with no other intent but just to, sometimes to just show affection to you. The same with dolphins, wolves, and many more. Hunting isn't always for survival, nonetheless these animals still fulfill their role in keeping the balance of their respective habitats, because of it.


Edited by Passingby, 31 July 2015 - 04:21 PM.

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#34 Petite Fleur

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 06:02 PM

There are plenty of hunters who hunt with all three goals in mind. I know hunters who would hunt for sport and at the same time not waste the meat, of course, during hunting season when it's legal, so also fulfilling their niche in the ecosystem. Hunting need not be a controversial hobby when animal husbandry and fishing is another modality of the same activity of meat harvesting. On that note, hunting for sport/trophy need not be any more controversial either. I mean your pet cat would effectively kill birds with no other intent but just to, sometimes to just show affection to you. The same with dolphins, wolves, and many more. Hunting isn't always for survival, nonetheless these animals still fulfill their role in keeping the balance of their respective habitats, because of it.

But has any aminal ever been known to cause the extinction of another?


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#35 Passingby

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 06:45 PM

But has any aminal ever been known to cause the extinction of another?

 

Competition? Animals introduced to a different habitat can displace the native ones. At the same time, preys in that system wouldn't have the defense mechanisms to protect them from an alien threat. 


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#36 Petite Fleur

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 06:46 PM

Competition? Animals introduced to a different habitat can displace the native ones. At the same time, preys in that system wouldn't have the defense mechanisms to protect them from an alien threat. 

But has that ever lead to extinction?


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#37 ZCOverload

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 07:32 PM

Yes. Actually here in Nevada, a new breed of clams overpopulated and killed off the other breeds. In Lake Mead, iirc.


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#38 Nyanko

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 08:14 PM

But has any aminal ever been known to cause the extinction of another?

 

Yes. There are at least six known marsupials or birds that have been killed off on the mainland of Australia by wild cats. 


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#39 Darthwin

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 08:44 PM

I would say hunting a species to extinction is the problem. 

If people have enough self control and common sense to let a population keep a maintainable rate while taking into account certain variables that can effect a species population I would see no reason for hunting to be banned.

 

Hunting a rare species that is endangered should remain a crime, but anything common should be fair game within reason.



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#40 Miss.J

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 11:39 PM

I said this.

And also, while there is that group of people who do, you still have to consider those who naturally hunt to eat and not for pride. There are people who hunt to eat. Not everyone wants to buy meat from grocery stores or butcher shops or were raised to where that's their go-to all the time.

Oh what, so one day you're sick of chicken and an innocent deer has to die? 


 

Consumption.

 

Though hunting purposes aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. I've hunted a whitetail, ate it, and made a comfy rug out of its hide. Had buckskin bracelets made for my fiancee and sisters.

 

Let's not be presumptuous with our reasoning for banning game. 

Oh boo hoo your cotton rug is too ugly. Better kill an innocent animal for no reason. Hunting is wrong no matter what. 


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