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Should hunting be illegal?


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#81 waleuska

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 02:16 PM

not really, that's a pretty effective way of doing that. I mean, they can't really get more effective than that.

It being effective have nothing to do with anything. You know what else is effective putting chickens in cages and feeding them steroids. That doesn't make it humane.

 

 

It's quite curious as to why this will be questioned and frowned upon when it's specifically a hunting method that is observed and practiced by many predators. Whales do it. Wolves do it. Lions do it. It's an effective hunting technique. When animals do it we marvel at their intelligence, when humans do it, it's deplorable. :shrug:
 
It's a widely practiced method. I think in some parts of the world they call that farming.

 

Because we do not need to do it. This isn't a bunch of hungy people trying to get food. Those are rich assholes that are to lazy to walk around so instead they sit in a jeep and shoot what ever is in front of them. If these guys would give some hunting materials to people who need to eat and something close to this story is the method they got their food i would be fine with it.

 

Most humans don't want to admit/acknowledge that they are animals when it comes down to it.

Ugh being an animals doesn't mean we have to act like them. Hell dolphins go around raping each other and other animals. Does that sound like something we would allowed? 


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#82 Passingby

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 03:00 PM


Because we do not need to do it. This isn't a bunch of hungy people trying to get food. Those are rich assholes that are to lazy to walk around so instead they sit in a jeep and shoot what ever is in front of them. If these guys would give some hunting materials to people who need to eat and something close to this story is the method they got their food i would be fine with it.
 

 

It doesn't really matter to me if these folks would use drones to do their hunting for them, but griping how they do it versus why they do it is central to your argument. And I don't see any indication from you to support why their method is deplorable, other than that they are "lazy rich folks". What exactly are you concerned about? That they use effective hunting methods or that you don't know why they're hunting? 


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#83 waleuska

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 03:12 PM

It doesn't really matter to me if these folks would use drones to do their hunting for them, but griping how they do it versus why they do it is central to your argument. And I don't see any indication from you to support why their method is deplorable, other than that they are "lazy rich folks". What exactly are you concerned about? That they use effective hunting methods or that you don't know why they're hunting? 

 

Their method is deplorable the only reason why i would allow it if someone who really in need that use it. A poor village does something like this to feed their families, i would over look this. It is their only method of getting food. On the other hand if someone use a drone to kill a deer than i think they should rather go to a store and buy their food.


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#84 Passingby

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 03:18 PM

Going along with your line of reasoning, then you should go and hunt your OWN food instead of embracing advanced and effective methods of farming (ie. mass, systemic, slaughter of animals), because, you know, you're not really dying of hunger. You can afford breaking a sweat or two, it's just a minor inconvenience. 


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#85 Hoff

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 03:26 PM

Ugh being an animals doesn't mean we have to act like them. Hell dolphins go around raping each other and other animals. Does that sound like something we would allowed? 

 

It doesn't matter how you act you're still acting like an animal because that's what you are. Anything you do is what an animal does.

 

That aside; come on now you need to pick a side. On one side you say animals are precious things in need of saving and shouldn't be hunted down but on the other end you'd condemn people like animals? As for "We would allow" Many places around the earth did allow it for a time. The only reason we don't now is because it's no longer an effective or survivable way of living.


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#86 waleuska

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 03:43 PM

Going along with your line of reasoning, then you should go and hunt your OWN food instead of embracing advanced and effective methods of farming (ie. mass, systemic, slaughter of animals), because, you know, you're not really dying of hunger. You can afford breaking a sweat or two, it's just a minor inconvenience. 

I do not see your reasoning. Farming is way better than everyone hunting for themselves. There are 7 billion people on earth can anyone control what 7 billion hunt/fish everyday compare to farming.

 

It doesn't matter how you act you're still acting like an animal because that's what you are. Anything you do is what an animal does.

 

That aside; come on now you need to pick a side. On one side you say animals are precious things in need of saving and shouldn't be hunted down but on the other end you'd condemn people like animals? As for "We would allow" Many places around the earth did allow it for a time. The only reason we don't now is because it's no longer an effective or survivable way of living.

I never said this. Humans are omnivores i do not condemn people for hunting. I condemn them for using a method that should be consider inhumane.

 

now saying we are animals i agree. That being said We are smarter than any other animal on this planet. We should hold ourselves to a higher stander.


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#87 Passingby

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 03:53 PM

You're griping about how a bunch of folks are using effective methods to hunt but they cannot be bothered to buy INSTEAD meat from a bunch of people who systematically mass slaughter animals to procure them their precious meat.
 
 
Hunting=unaaceptable
Mass slaughter=humane
 
 
It's the classic anti-hunting paradox. 

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#88 waleuska

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 04:34 PM

 

You're griping about how a bunch of folks are using effective methods to hunt but they cannot be bothered to buy INSTEAD meat from a bunch of people who systematically mass slaughter animals to procure them their precious meat.
 
 
Hunting=unaaceptable
Mass slaughter=humane
 
 
It's the classic anti-hunting paradox. 

 

How in the hell is that hunting. Also once again those people are not doing to for food they are doing it for fun.

 

What is the difference between hunting and farming. You are going to have to kill the animal but like i said one is control and the other isn't.

 

Saying to we kill a lot of animals farming is not going to change if we decide to just hunt hell it would be worst.


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#89 disastrousmaster

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 08:11 PM

How in the hell is that hunting. Also once again those people are not doing to for food they are doing it for fun.

 

What is the difference between hunting and farming. You are going to have to kill the animal but like i said one is control and the other isn't.

 

Saying to we kill a lot of animals farming is not going to change if we decide to just hunt hell it would be worst.

its as simple as this, the government needed those animals dead, they allowed a method for this. I don't know if you know this wale, but most hunting is done by waiting for the animal to come into an area so you can kill it. The only difference was that this method involved many people being paid to round the animals up for the hunters. them being lazy has nothing to do with it. Also, who are you to say that those animals were not skinned/gutted/processed. Its highly likely that those animals were used as food. Also you can't really call it inhumane. They didn't exactly raise them to be penned up and then mass slaughter them. Your argument holds no weight, and unless you are able to provide a specific reasoning behind why this should have been done differently, or propose a plan that would have been better implemented for this, then you have no argument at all. I don't like it, so it is inhumane, is not an argument.


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#90 waleuska

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 10:32 AM

its as simple as this, the government needed those animals dead, they allowed a method for this. I don't know if you know this wale, but most hunting is done by waiting for the animal to come into an area so you can kill it. The only difference was that this method involved many people being paid to round the animals up for the hunters. them being lazy has nothing to do with it. Also, who are you to say that those animals were not skinned/gutted/processed. Its highly likely that those animals were used as food. Also you can't really call it inhumane. They didn't exactly raise them to be penned up and then mass slaughter them. Your argument holds no weight, and unless you are able to provide a specific reasoning behind why this should have been done differently, or propose a plan that would have been better implemented for this, then you have no argument at all. I don't like it, so it is inhumane, is not an argument.

Ok, then why did they not want their faces shown. It seems like to me you are trying to make this out as they are doing a service to the community which they are not.

 

I find this funny you guys are attacking farmers that kill a lot of animals, but i bet they are willing to show their faces in public. On the other hand you guys are defending people that are ashamed and refuse to have their faces shown.

 

Not all killing is equal. Killing animals in a farm to feed billions of people vs line up animals to be killed by some rich people as a game.

 

I know which side i rather be on.


 

Also this is the end of this stupid debate. I do not want to hear any more of the stupid excuses you give these people for their actions.


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#91 Hoff

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 12:06 PM

Ok, then why did they not want their faces shown. It seems like to me you are trying to make this out as they are doing a service to the community which they are not.

 

I find this funny you guys are attacking farmers that kill a lot of animals, but i bet they are willing to show their faces in public. On the other hand you guys are defending people that are ashamed and refuse to have their faces shown.

 

Not because they're doing something wrong but because of trial by media as has become the norm lately. Regardless of if they're actually doing something wrong the media will make it out to be bad and these people would be publicly crucified. In addition to potential death threats.

 

Beyond that you have literally no idea if they're doing a service to that community or not.

 

 

Not all killing is equal. Killing animals in a farm to feed billions of people vs line up animals to be killed by some rich people as a game.

 

I know which side i rather be on.

 
Each serve different purposes. Like it or not the world is here to be used by all that inhabit it in whatever way they please, presuming they are capable of withstanding any consequences.
 
 

Also this is the end of this stupid debate. I do not want to hear any more of the stupid excuses you give these people for their actions.

 

You can't just declare a discussion over because you refuse to believe you can be wrong or even want evidence but up to the contrary of your belief. You can not read it anymore and not respond but this discussion exists without you.


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#92 Misty

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 12:17 PM


Also this is the end of this stupid debate. I do not want to hear any more of the stupid excuses you give these people for their actions.

 

Well I think that is more than enough of you saying stuff of this nature.  You never have a right to call what other people say stupid on this forum even when they are arguing with you.  Furthermore, you never have the right to say a debate is over, you may only step out if you no longer desire to continue. (Although, you should keep in mind that means whatever side you are putting forth will no longer be heard unless others hold it.) 

 

All of your ughs and sighs and cursing are unwarranted and unacceptable on a debate forum.  Bring yourself up to a polite and appropriate standard otherwise go back to arguing with people on tumblr. 

 

Now, back to your arguments:

 


Ok, then why did they not want their faces shown. It seems like to me you are trying to make this out as they are doing a service to the community which they are not.

 

Because as in all communities on this little marble in space, people exist who do not agree with their actions. Sadly for them, the anti-hunting community tends to be a bit overboard in their expression.  I have absolutely no qualms with hunting and even some interest in it, if I did it I would consider that in a very small and petty way I was helping feed others and keep nature in check.  However, I would not want my face shown to others because I'm in no mood to have people picketing my house and screaming murderer at me. 

 

You can shame people about near anything to the point they won't show their face. Feminists did it to Joss Wheadon in the most hilarious form of cannibalism I've seen this century. 

 


I find this funny you guys are attacking farmers that kill a lot of animals, but i bet they are willing to show their faces in public. On the other hand you guys are defending people that are ashamed and refuse to have their faces shown.

 

It isn't that we're attacking them for killing a lot of animals, we're bring up farmers to show that your standard isn't being well-thought out at all and comes from a place of ignorance.  I don't think anyone supporting hunting is against farming because we realize both play a vital role in feeding our population while checking nature's. 

 

Beyond this, we're pointing out that farming as a standard has fallen quite low with all the animals being bred having generally speaking awful lives in which they're bred to suffer in dank, tiny rooms sometimes with holes permanently set in their bodies, unable to move only to be killed.   You can say a lot about hunting, but you cannot say that up to that point the animal didn't have a pretty natural and happy existence. 

 


Not all killing is equal. Killing animals in a farm to feed billions of people vs line up animals to be killed by some rich people as a game.

 

Is your standard of what you think farming is from picture books? That's pro-farmer indoctrination, mate! 

 

As we pointed out, farming ain't some fluffy good thing life for the animals involved.  It sucks for them.

 

As we pointed out, hunting ain't the evil you're making it out to be. The animal does get used after the fact and it isn't a game just for rich people.  My causins and many of my uncles hunt. We are not a classically wealthy clan by any means. Actually, the hunting of deer and other creatures is a very necessary supplement to the food that...wait for it...FARMING gives to that part of my family.   And this is partially because my family is of the few who refuse to breed and farm animals in conditions that are destructive to the animal living a happy life.  Their chickens run about playing and aren't fed shit that makes them so fat they cannot mate.  Their pigs aren't nailed into the ground so they cannot move. They're slopped leftovers and allowed to roll around in their own poopy like happy creatures do.  Their cows aren't chained in place with holes in their stomachs to remove the stuff it cannot digest. They're running about on the land eating grass.


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#93 Passingby

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 12:32 PM

What does them covering their faces so that photographers would not capture their pictures without consent has anything to do with their "guilt"?

I guess a criminal could proudly show his mug and he's not guilty anymore?

C'mon now.

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#94 soccerislife

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 02:35 PM

Well I think that is more than enough of you saying stuff of this nature. You never have a right to call what other people say stupid on this forum even when they are arguing with you. Furthermore, you never have the right to say a debate is over, you may only step out if you no longer desire to continue. (Although, you should keep in mind that means whatever side you are putting forth will no longer be heard unless others hold it.)

All of your ughs and sighs and cursing are unwarranted and unacceptable on a debate forum. Bring yourself up to a polite and appropriate standard otherwise go back to arguing with people on tumblr.

Now, back to your arguments:


Because as in all communities on this little marble in space, people exist who do not agree with their actions. Sadly for them, the anti-hunting community tends to be a bit overboard in their expression. I have absolutely no qualms with hunting and even some interest in it, if I did it I would consider that in a very small and petty way I was helping feed others and keep nature in check. However, I would not want my face shown to others because I'm in no mood to have people picketing my house and screaming murderer at me.

You can shame people about near anything to the point they won't show their face. Feminists did it to Joss Wheadon in the most hilarious form of cannibalism I've seen this century.


It isn't that we're attacking them for killing a lot of animals, we're bring up farmers to show that your standard isn't being well-thought out at all and comes from a place of ignorance. I don't think anyone supporting hunting is against farming because we realize both play a vital role in feeding our population while checking nature's.

Beyond this, we're pointing out that farming as a standard has fallen quite low with all the animals being bred having generally speaking awful lives in which they're bred to suffer in dank, tiny rooms sometimes with holes permanently set in their bodies, unable to move only to be killed. You can say a lot about hunting, but you cannot say that up to that point the animal didn't have a pretty natural and happy existence.


Is your standard of what you think farming is from picture books? That's pro-farmer indoctrination, mate!

As we pointed out, farming ain't some fluffy good thing life for the animals involved. It sucks for them.

As we pointed out, hunting ain't the evil you're making it out to be. The animal does get used after the fact and it isn't a game just for rich people. My causins and many of my uncles hunt. We are not a classically wealthy clan by any means. Actually, the hunting of deer and other creatures is a very necessary supplement to the food that...wait for it...FARMING gives to that part of my family. And this is partially because my family is of the few who refuse to breed and farm animals in conditions that are destructive to the animal living a happy life. Their chickens run about playing and aren't fed shit that makes them so fat they cannot mate. Their pigs aren't nailed into the ground so they cannot move. They're slopped leftovers and allowed to roll around in their own poopy like happy creatures do. Their cows aren't chained in place with holes in their stomachs to remove the stuff it cannot digest. They're running about on the land eating grass.


I actually saw a video of one of the farm life's of pigs. It was Walmarts personal farms and God was if awful. They were standing in their own piss and s***. And quite a few other things such as removing the tail and even their hoofs while they're alive like straight out of some torture scene.

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#95 Misty

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 03:21 PM

Yes, it's terrible. And I should be clear, my family does not and has never and will never do that to any animals.  They've been farming land since before coming to this country long ago and they have absolutely no intention of harming animals just to make more money.  This arrangement is happy and good for the animals and for them. They are in no way the majority or average on this topic. The majority and average are doing terrible totally inhumane things to animals. 

 

 

People with a commitment like that aren't about to be making animals suffer by hunting.  They just happen to know that if these animals aren't hunted and their numbers aren't culled, the deer and such will suffer even worse lives from their own overpopulation.  But they've never disobeyed seasons.   They enjoy the hunt, for sure, but there is nothing wrong with enjoying a hunt.  


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#96 disastrousmaster

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 08:31 AM

I actually saw a video of one of the farm life's of pigs. It was Walmarts personal farms and God was if awful. They were standing in their own piss and s***. And quite a few other things such as removing the tail and even their hoofs while they're alive like straight out of some torture scene.

That's wal-mart...you know, the people that only pay their employees the base minimum wage, with a once a year raise of about 3-4% (for a person making $10 an hour, they go up to 10.30, for a person making 10.30, 10.60 (over 3 years for a raise of $1, and $10 isnt even the start point for them yet!))....I wouldn't really use wal-mart as a base to go off of there. I mean, they don't even really care about their employees, let alone the animals that they slaughter.


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#97 Hoff

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 09:08 AM

That's wal-mart...you know, the people that only pay their employees the base minimum wage, with a once a year raise of about 3-4% (for a person making $10 an hour, they go up to 10.30, for a person making 10.30, 10.60 (over 3 years for a raise of $1, and $10 isnt even the start point for them yet!))....I wouldn't really use wal-mart as a base to go off of there. I mean, they don't even really care about their employees, let alone the animals that they slaughter.

 

 

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#98 Milareppa

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 03:53 PM

That seems more like a population control thing there. population was getting out of hand so they used ancient hunting techniques (yes, this is indeed a very old hunting technique) to funnel a certain amount of animals into a kill zone. This is most likely why it was something that was allowed by the local government.


The reason it was given permission to go ahead was because it provided work to a poverty-stricken area of high unemployment. The region is an area where people struggle to grow crops or raise livestock, so subsistence and jobs are difficult to come by.

The problem this creates (from a local point-of-view) is two-fold. Hunting is a job that keeps people in work and putting food on the table. The area is very pro-hunting, and has a well-established hunting industry. It's about the only industry that works in regions like this.

 

However, in this situation, the impoverished locals cannot sustainably hunt their local wildlife to put food on the table (and this would be difficult to do anyway), but can work in a hunting industry where outsiders pay to hunt the local widlife instead. What the driven hunt does that the established hunting methods do not do, is employ a much larger workforce, much faster. That's why the driven hunts were approved. It quickly got a large amount of impoverished people into work.

 

Despite the employment, and the pro-hunting nature of the region, the locals were opposed to this method of hunting. In part it's because they could see the controversy coming, and feared for the future of their established, less controversial, hunting industry. In part it's because, while there is employment for a large group of people, the jobs are physically demanding, pay poorly and are temporary.

One very important thing I learned in conservation years ago - sustainable, sensible environmental decisions absolutely have to take into account the socio-economic welfare of local human populations. Otherwise, it quite simply doesn't work.



#99 soccerislife

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 07:52 PM

Only certain type of hunting should be illegal. If all hunting were to be illegal, might as well ban all meat.

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#100 GintaMan

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 05:31 PM

I'd daresay hunting for sport should be illegal. If you want to stop people from hunting for food, restrict them from hunting endangered animals. But if you ban hunting in its entirety, then that's totally abnormal and going against some of the basic laws of nature. 


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