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[Character] Donquixote "Heavenly Demon" Doflamingo (Part 13)


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#281 Sesshoumaru

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 09:27 AM

His main goal is not becoming pirate king but setting the world on fire. He wants to destroy the celestial dragons and everything they rule. That's why he supported Kaidou, since Kaidou intends to form the strongest pirate crew and start a massive war.


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#282 Oben

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 10:45 AM

No, he also aimed for Pirate King. Monet says it when she hits the button on Punk Hazard.


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#283 captain kidd

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 11:28 AM

No, he also aimed for Pirate King. Monet says it when she hits the button on Punk Hazard.


Then how come he told bellamy he never really cared about being a pirate anything is fine as long as he could set the world on fire?

Did DD himself ever say he wanted to be king?

Because in all fairness, monet spent alot of time under cove DD's plans could of changed
 
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#284 Oben

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 11:57 AM

Then how come he told bellamy he never really cared about being a pirate anything is fine as long as he could set the world on fire?

Did DD himself ever say he wanted to be king?

Because in all fairness, monet spent alot of time under cove DD's plans could of changed

 

I'd assume because that's what Bellamy wanted to hear? Aside from the Seats, he might as well have just told different things to the lower underlings to give them what they wanted.



#285 captain kidd

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 01:34 PM

And to confuse matters even more his last speech before going away was asking who will control the seas. If he was interested in that he would of stuck with the marines....

I need to go back and look to see what dd himself said about his dreams
 
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#286 Sesshoumaru

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:02 PM

DD himself claimed that he doesn't give a damn about being a pirate, he just wants to set the world on fire and being a pirate is the best possible way to do it.

 

However, taking into account DD's narcisstic character, it is very much likely that he would not be satisfied with destroying the government, but that he would want to rule the world himself.

So he might have some secret plan to overthrow Kaidou in the end and becoming king himself. So yeah, he somehow wants to become pirate king, but it is more a means of achieving his goals. He would also be happy with becoming the king of the underworld, or the next boss of the government or whatever. He doesn't care, as long as it will lead to the government's destruction and him being in charge again.


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#287 captain kidd

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:26 PM

Well if that was his goal he was no where near it.
Hell crocodile was closer to world domination then DD was.
 
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#288 Abaroxa

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:31 PM

Well if that was his goal he was no where near it.
Hell crocodile was closer to world domination then DD was.

 

Bad example. Crocodile was the same as DD 10 years ago before conquering dressrosa.

They only difference is that DD was providing weapons(smile) to kaido and crocodile wanted pluton for himself but nevertheless DD had a kingdom and Crocodile didnt.



#289 Fulmine

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:47 PM

He doesn't care about being pirate but being PK is a good mean to his goal. It's like one may not give a fuck about being Head of X Department but if being the Head gives him/her chance to have more money thanks to bribery then why not. It's the money that comes with the position that matters, not the position itself.


Edited by Fulmine, 13 July 2017 - 05:49 PM.

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#290 Tale

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 05:59 AM

@Fulmine
Continuing this here since old chapter thread was moved.

Yes, you can argue Luffy's G4 vs DD isn't as strong 100%Luffy's G4 but does that even matter? Luffy started G4 after being beaten to a pulp by Katakuri and Cracker (especially Katakuri), too...and that was clearly worse than Bellamy's beating or 3 trolling kicks (okay, 2, Athlete Thread is a serious, named attack but Luffy did block it) from a badly injured Doflamingo.

 
I'm not sure it matters, as I'm not sure Oda is actually consistent when taking injuries into account. I'll post on that later, currently don't feel like going into the topic. All I was saying in that post (which I deleted because I thought it was crap) is that if people accept the argument that Doflamingo's feats against Law and Luffy would have been better if he was healthier, they would have to accept the argument that Law and Luffy's feats against Doflamingo would have better if they were healthier. It was a simple and obvious point, and while it complicates Doffy's feats, I don't think there's much to gained from admitting it either way.
 

Why should his strength be higher? Maybe he's overall more powerful because he gains experience and knowledge (about awakening, for example) but stat-wise that doesn't have to be the case. He didn't have new technique the way he used G2 after being send in between buildings by Lucci. It's not like we have seen him lift more, either. Or that his G4 is now maintained in 2 hours, for example. And 2 of those wouldn't matter if Luffy beats Katakuri with G4 (so no new technique) and in less than 20 minutes. And even if the fight takes more than 20 minutes, all that means is Katakuri can dodge better than DD.

 
Because that's how Luffy has constantly gained strength throughout this manga? He fights progressively stronger opponents (most of the time) and powers-up. His feats get better and better, even though we don't necessarily see any new techniques showing off Luffy's strength. The fact that we haven't seen a difference between WCI Luffy and Dressrosa Luffy doesn't mean much, because, as you say, we're not seeing feats that we can use to compare (except maybe Luffy still being able to walk and run after G4. which he said he could do in Dressrosa, but didn't exactly look capable of doing, as he didn't even try to defend himself against Burgess). But that doesn't mean what has been true for most of the manga isn't true between these two arcs. :shrug:
 

Finally, how DD actually fought. He can be an effective ranged fighter and Katakuri might not have anything to overpower that. They can have an Awakening festival throwing elements left and right but would Katakuri have the speed and mobility to outmaneuvre DD like G4? The guy admitted he couldn't hit non-G4Luffy and felt pretty beat because of that and so forced to use Awakening, even after using his advanced CoO to predict where Luffy would dodge to. DD didn't suffer that. In fact he was kicking non-G4Luffy a few times.

 
Katakuri didn't admit he couldn't hit non-G4 Luffy. He said non-G4 Luffy was dodging him more than he expected. He hit him many times. You can also see some of the dodging feats, and the others one I didn't include after Katakuri began using his spear.
https://www.mangainn...ter-879/page_17
https://www.mangainn...ter-880/page_13 <- not sure if this implies more hits or if it direct continuation of above
https://www.mangainn...ter-880/page_15
https://www.mangainn...ter-880/page_18
https://www.mangainn...ter-881/page_16
https://www.mangainn...ter-881/page_18
 
Here are Doffy's feats, before and after Gamma Knife. (I probably missed some) Note that his good feats against Luffy and Law in the first few pages involve clones, Bellamy and Trebol interfering.
https://www.mangainn...ter-760/page_12
https://www.mangainn...ter-760/page_13
https://www.mangainn...pter-761/page_6
https://www.mangainn...pter-761/page_7
https://www.mangainn...pter-761/page_7
Here is Doffy at more or less full strength sparring with Law and taking injuries. Granted, he was probably distracted by Law revealing he was a D.
https://www.mangainn...ter-768/page_14
https://www.mangainn...ter-768/page_15
Here G2 Luffy dodges awakening from a fresh Doffy:

After Gamma Knife Luffy began overpowering him:
https://www.mangainn...pter-782/page_5
https://www.mangainn...pter-782/page_6
https://www.mangainn...pter-782/page_7
And he doesn't seem to have been able to break Luffy's block, which he did before after he was punched with Red Hawk:
https://www.mangainn...pter-782/page_8
Here's Doffy tanking a Hawk Bazooka:
https://www.mangainn...ter-783/page_12
Luffy dodging then getting hit:
https://www.mangainn...ter-783/page_13
https://www.mangainn...ter-783/page_14
Then clashing:
https://www.mangainn...ter-783/page_16
Then Doffy hitting Luffy again:
https://www.mangainn...ter-783/page_19
Then, from their first encounter, Luffy saving Kyros:
https://www.mangainn...pter-745/page_5
https://www.mangainn...pter-745/page_6
Then dodging Doffy and his clone:
https://www.mangainn...pter-745/page_7
Then being hit:
https://www.mangainn...pter-745/page_9
 
Doffy's superiority to Luffy (in G2/3), while obvious, was never total. Luffy dodged both awakened and un-awakened attacks before and after Gamma Knife and I think it is safe to say that the majority of his successful hits landed because Luffy was distracted by clones, Bellamy or Trebol. I'm not saying these were required for Doffy to land hits, just that his most positive feats before Gamma Knife actually involved distractions.
 
I'm not sure if you specifically want to debate how Doffy would do vs Cracker and Katakuri (but I could get into that to if you want). I was really just talking about their  power in general.


Edited by Tale, 10 November 2017 - 05:59 AM.

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#291 masterbio

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 06:07 AM

Hey guys, so I was thinking (I don't know if this as already been addressed buuuut) shouldn't DD be dead?

When Law hit him with his super magic knive, he slashed DD's internal organs, and DD only survived by using his power to keep the organs stitched.

But after he was defeated and sent to jail, they arrested him in seastone cuffs, so shouldn't his stitches disappear?



#292 Fulmine

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 06:26 AM

Hey guys, so I was thinking (I don't know if this as already been addressed buuuut) shouldn't DD be dead?

When Law hit him with his super magic knive, he slashed DD's internal organs, and DD only survived by using his power to keep the organs stitched.

But after he was defeated and sent to jail, they arrested him in seastone cuffs, so shouldn't his stitches disappear?

He didn't die when Gamma Knife struck him. He stitched his organs so he could continue fighting. Ergo he actually didn't need it just to survive. Obviously later he got pummeled by G4 but that means his endurance is just that great. The stitches were already performed anw and it could have been enough for DD to start to heal.

 

And who knows, maybe DD's DF is special. It's the first fruit that shows the element the user creates can grow inside the body IIRC.


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#293 Kazekage

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 11:53 AM

The reveal of Im-sama adds a new layer to Doffy's motivation.

 

During Dressrosa Doffy claimed that if he had Law's power on 'that day' he would have held the reigns on the entire world and that he knows a 'secret' about Mariejois that would have shaken the entire world. 

 

Hypothesis: Doffy found out about Im-sama when he was young. Most likely when he took his father's head to Mariejois to gain re entrance. If he had Law's ability, he could have switched bodies with Im-sama and become the ruler of the world.  The core of Doffy's motivation is that he was denied what he felt was rightfully his so he wants to tear down those he feels are responsible and attain everything that he feels he is entitled to.  Becoming Pirate King is also probably a part of that, deep down he is a Celestial Dragon, of course he deserves to be 'The King'.  The King of the World and the King of the Pirates. 

 

 



#294 Sesshoumaru

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:43 PM

Rematch EoS anyone?

Sanji_vs_Doflamingo.jpg


Edited by Sesshoumaru, 17 August 2018 - 02:43 PM.


#295 captain kidd

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 06:33 AM

Hey guys, so I was thinking (I don't know if this as already been addressed buuuut) shouldn't DD be dead?

When Law hit him with his super magic knive, he slashed DD's internal organs, and DD only survived by using his power to keep the organs stitched.

But after he was defeated and sent to jail, they arrested him in seastone cuffs, so shouldn't his stitches disappear?

 

if only..... sea stone cuffs dont make df abilities vanish.........well...........only some plot related abilities.....

 

look at moria, he was knocked out, and the people wanted to knock him out again, but he made it clear no matter what they do to him the shadows will never return to their owners unless he gives the command. same with pica, he was knocked out but dr never went back to its old self. after crackers was defeated you can still see chunks of crackers in the background.

 

rule of thumb is df abilities stay no matter what happens to the user, unless Oda needs something different for the plot. Enel was knocked out and his thunder clouds and arc didn't stop running, but DD was knocked out and bird cage vanished. Also, a better example is Law, when he had sea stone hand cuffs on him everyone didnt magically get their hearts back, and law wasn't instantly reinfected by the white disease.

 

 

 

also if none of that does it for you, the purpose of stitches is to hold the organs......lol.....to hold the skin in place for it to heal on its own, maybe super human DD already healed enough by the time the sea stone cuffs were put on him (about 20 mins, sounds long enough for a super human to me.)


 
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#296 Fulmine

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 02:07 AM

Decide who will be North Blue king?

 

 


look at moria, he was knocked out, and the people wanted to knock him out again, but he made it clear no matter what they do to him the shadows will never return to their owners unless he gives the command. same with pica, he was knocked out but dr never went back to its old self. after crackers was defeated you can still see chunks of crackers in the background.



rule of thumb is df abilities stay no matter what happens to the user, unless Oda needs something different for the plot. Enel was knocked out and his thunder clouds and arc didn't stop running, but DD was knocked out and bird cage vanished. Also, a better example is Law, when he had sea stone hand cuffs on him everyone didnt magically get their hearts back, and law wasn't instantly reinfected by the white disease.

Or Bird Cage is counted as the same as Elephant Gun. Ergo techniques that can only be performed and maintained if the user is conscious (or at least some sort of amazing sleep walk). Moria, Cracker, Pica's powers that you mention change/affect things and so they stay that way after the affecting is done. It's better to compare them to a wall Elephant Gun punches or an iceberg magma fist melts. If Akaainu is cuffed in sea stone he can't use his power but that doesn't mean Jozu's iceberg would regenerate...

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#297 captain kidd

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 11:52 AM


Decide who will be North Blue king?


Or Bird Cage is counted as the same as Elephant Gun. Ergo techniques that can only be performed and maintained if the user is conscious (or at least some sort of amazing sleep walk). Moria, Cracker, Pica's powers that you mention change/affect things and so they stay that way after the affecting is done. It's better to compare them to a wall Elephant Gun punches or an iceberg magma fist melts. If Akaainu is cuffed in sea stone he can't use his power but that doesn't mean Jozu's iceberg would regenerate...


I dont think that is a fair comparison since elephant gun or g2 or g3 isnt luffy's power. it is a weird by product of having a rubber body. Luffy isnt a plasticman clone whos power is to move his body any way he wants, his sole power is having a rubber body. If luffy was plastic man, i have no doubt elephant gun would stay active even if luffy was knocked out.

Also these abilties are supposed to be putting a strain on luffys body, probably because his rubber body wants to be returned to normal, it only makes sense when luffy isnt able to conciously stop his body from returning to normal shape his body reverts back. (Also this is a weird conversation since we have never see luffy knocked out while in g3, lol maybe it does stay up)

It just doesnt make any sense for a production fruit to dissapear.
 
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