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[Character] Donquixote "Heavenly Demon" Doflamingo (Part 13)


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#41 Leper

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 11:28 AM

Very likely, as it can cut through steel or freaking meteors with ease.
 
However, Doffy would never do that since he can't swim.

Yet it couldn't even cut through these buildings. Unless these buildings are for whatever reason more durable than an island or made of seastone like the factory(both of which seem unlikely), birdcage is inconsistent, making it an unreliable feat. Inconsistnency aside, all of this assumes that DD can make a birdcage large enough to contain the whole island in the first place, which there is no proof of. Likewise, as far as we know the island would take at least an hour to cut, which I wouldn't necessarily call "island busting". As it stands, maybe the possibility exists, but the feats don't convince me of it.


Edited by Leper, 16 November 2015 - 01:20 PM.


#42 tenchu

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 04:11 PM

Yet it couldn't even cut through these buildings. Unless these buildings are for whatever reason more durable than an island or made of seastone like the factory(both of which seem unlikely), birdcage is inconsistent, making it an unreliable feat. Inconsistnency aside, all of this assumes that DD can make a birdcage large enough to contain the whole island in the first place, which there is no proof of. Likewise, as far as we know the island would take at least an hour to cut, which I wouldn't necessarily call "island busting". As it stands, maybe the possibility exists, but the feats don't convince me of it.

dressrosa is a big island and birdcage seems to be covering most of it except the edge of the rocks.

 

One-Piece-Chapter-745-Doflamingo-Birdcag


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#43 Fulmine

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 12:20 AM

Enel's only shown the capability to destroy a Sky Island, which is easier to destroy than an island on the Blue Seas (I assume we're using "typical" islands like Dressrosa as the benchmark)

Nah, he vaporizes rock just fine.

 


Yet it couldn't even cut through these buildings.

It hadn't started cutting yet. Later near the end we see the BC contracted successfully.


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#44 Strobacaxi

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 04:00 AM

Nah, he vaporizes rock just fine.

 

 

 

It hadn't started cutting yet. Later near the end we see the BC contracted successfully.

Funny how Enel was never shown destroying a rock island, but you assume he can.


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#45 Fulmine

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 10:43 AM

Funny how Enel was never shown destroying a rock island, but you assume he can.

Funny how you can't understand why. His lightning can vaporize rock, he has island range, he can do it right away without notable time constrain. 1+1+1=3. Except WB (who's proven anw) and Fuji, all other top-tiers lack 1 or 2 of those 3 things in their feats (and of course I don't mean they have to vaporize rock, just being destructive in general)

 

But given Fujitora's ability, size is a question. Enel is not like that.


Edited by Fulmine, 17 November 2015 - 10:43 AM.

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#46 tenchu

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 11:01 AM

Funny how you can't understand why. His lightning can vaporize rock, he has island range, he can do it right away without notable time constrain. 1+1+1=3. Except WB (who's proven anw) and Fuji, all other top-tiers lack 1 or 2 of those 3 things in their feats (and of course I don't mean they have to vaporize rock, just being destructive in general)

 

But given Fujitora's ability, size is a question. Enel is not like that.

this is not about theorizing things, this about what has been shown, Doflamingo was the main force who destroyed dressrosa, if the others had not been there, the destruction would had been complete and absolute. 


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#47 Scorpion2k4u

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 11:28 AM

Funny how you can't understand why. His lightning can vaporize rock, he has island range, he can do it right away without notable time constrain. 1+1+1=3. Except WB (who's proven anw) and Fuji, all other top-tiers lack 1 or 2 of those 3 things in their feats (and of course I don't mean they have to vaporize rock, just being destructive in general)
 
But given Fujitora's ability, size is a question. Enel is not like that.


If I remember right he began to destroy sky island as he had that ship. And he mostly destroyed those clouds sky island was mostly build on.

Difficult to compare that with a regular island. I mean we know of one I land that has lighting raining down on it constantly and it doesn't seem to bother the island or the people living there much from the little we saw.

I guess that both sky island and raijin island are not the best benchmark. My guess however would be that Enel wouldn't have it much easier or harder then most logia users we have seen so far.

Fire element logia like Ace's/Sabo's or Akainu fruit can burn an island down. Aokiji 's ice and that snowfruit can basically freeze them. Enel's lighting can also destroy stuff. Croc's sand fruit can dry an island out. Kizaru light can destroy alot. Well Smoker can't do much there... but still.
Then there are propably some other paramecia fruits that can destroy alot like Doffys. Maybe even the right Zoan can.

It depends on how the user uses the potential a fruit has and or what potential power a fruit has to begin with.
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#48 Leper

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 12:20 PM

dressrosa is a big island and birdcage seems to be covering most of it except the edge of the rocks.

 

http://www.mangapartay.com/wp-content/up...

I don't think it would be a stretch to assume he can extend his birdcage further. My point was that there is no proof of it. All that means is that there is no evidence for it, not that there is evidence against it.


Edited by Leper, 17 November 2015 - 12:24 PM.


#49 Fulmine

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 12:21 PM

this is not about theorizing things, this about what has been shown, Doflamingo was the main force who destroyed dressrosa, if the others had not been there, the destruction would had been complete and absolute. 

A post that has nothing to do with mine. But if you want, yeah, I never disagree with that.

 

 

 

 


If I remember right he began to destroy sky island as he had that ship. And he mostly destroyed those clouds sky island was mostly build on.

Yup. And...?

 

 

 

I guess that both sky island and raijin island are not the best benchmark. Difficult to compare that with a regular island. I mean we know of one I land that has lighting raining down on it constantly and it doesn't seem to bother the island or the people living there much from the little we saw.

key words

 

 


My guess however would be that Enel wouldn't have it much easier or harder then most logia users we have seen so far.

Fire element logia like Ace's/Sabo's or Akainu fruit can burn an island down. Aokiji 's ice and that snowfruit can basically freeze them. Enel's lighting can also destroy stuff. Croc's sand fruit can dry an island out. Kizaru light can destroy alot. Well Smoker can't do much there... but still.
Then there are propably some other paramecia fruits that can destroy alot like Doffys. Maybe even the right Zoan can.

It depends on how the user uses the potential a fruit has and or what potential power a fruit has to begin with.

Maybe. 

 

Maybe.

 

Uh huh.


Edited by Fulmine, 17 November 2015 - 12:25 PM.

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#50 Scorpion2k4u

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 01:52 PM

A post that has nothing to do with mine. But if you want, yeah, I never disagree with that.

 

 

 

 

Yup. And..?

key words

 

Maybe. 

 

Maybe.

 

Uh huh.

those clouds can't realy be compared to ground. Granted they are several meters thick but that's about it. They have nothing but air under them and we can't say for shure how good that cloud material withstands lightning. The ship was the reason he got a powerboost if I remeber it right. So without it he propably can't reach shown level of destruction. 

 

fact is that we can't compare a cloud island with a regular island. Enels lightning might as well have just medicore effect. Might as well be able to realy do a number too.

 

Said examples show that enel might have the right instrument to destroy an island but right now it's extremely questionable that we ever see him again or that if we see him again that he would ever showsth like that. The discussion is pointless until he shows up again.


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#51 Fulmine

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 12:43 AM

those clouds can't realy be compared to ground. Granted they are several meters thick but that's about it. They have nothing but air under them and we can't say for shure how good that cloud material withstands lightning. The ship was the reason he got a powerboost if I remeber it right. So without it he propably can't reach shown level of destruction. 

 

fact is that we can't compare a cloud island with a regular island. Enels lightning might as well have just medicore effect. Might as well be able to realy do a number too.

 

Said examples show that enel might have the right instrument to destroy an island but right now it's extremely questionable that we ever see him again or that if we see him again that he would ever showsth like that. The discussion is pointless until he shows up again.

Same thing I always say: if you reply to something in the middle of a discussion/conversation, please read what is written before that. All of that has been addressed before. Your post basically is Strawman.


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#52 Sloan

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 03:51 PM

Maybe. But still a guess so...I actually think if there's a move DD can use to cut island in combat, it would be Overheat. There's no time constrain and the range is huge. But yeah, until we see him actually does that...


Being able to contract Bird Cage isn't a guess?

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#53 Fulmine

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 09:59 PM

Being able to contract Bird Cage isn't a guess?

No, the ''as soon as he used BC''.


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#54 Sloan

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 11:35 AM

No, the ''as soon as he used BC''.


Way too technical.

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#55 Fulmine

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 01:59 PM

Way too technical.

> he wears a red shirt

> that's blue

> way too technical.

 

Your reply is along that line. Technicality is the whole point here.

 

As I said, if you give people time, a town-level can wreck a whole island just fine. He just needs to destroy town by town. But that doesn't make him a true island-level.


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#56 Sloan

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 02:28 PM

> he wears a red shirt
> that's blue
> way too technical.

Your reply is along that line. Technicality is the whole point here.

As I said, if you give people time, a town-level can wreck a whole island just fine. He just needs to destroy town by town. But that doesn't make him a true island-level.

That example makes no sense.

Your assertion is along the lines of

>Human introduced walking
>It's a guess if he Human can sprint/run

Okay, but their is no visible discrepency between DD's ability to contract Bird Cage and time. It's just a matter of him doing it or not.

Edited by Sloan, 19 November 2015 - 02:29 PM.

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#57 tenchu

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 02:32 PM

> he wears a red shirt

> that's blue

> way too technical.

 

Your reply is along that line. Technicality is the whole point here.

 

As I said, if you give people time, a town-level can wreck a whole island just fine. He just needs to destroy town by town. But that doesn't make him a true island-level.

Birdcage without a doubt makes DD a true island level, this should even be a discussion. Guy could even control the timing of the birdcage, we don't even know if he had it at its fastest. In my mind there have been ony two island level feats maybe three, DD's birdcage is one of them


Edited by tenchu, 19 November 2015 - 02:36 PM.

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#58 Fleet

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 02:38 PM

He has undoubtably island level range. He hasn't, however, shown the ability to physically destroy an island. In other words, there is no doubt that Doflamingo could wipe out everything from the surface of the island of Dressrosa, but he is not able to totally remove the island from the map.
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#59 Kazekage

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 02:54 PM

Punk Hazard wasn't totally removed from the map either. 


 

Birdcage can cut through rock and steel just fine. We saw that when it was revealed that the cage was contracting.  It's just that the debris that got cut kept getting piled up and clogged to the point where the cage was dragging some of it along. Yet we saw that Zoro, Franky and Barto's sides didn't have debris  around them so there wasn't really much getting dragged anyway. 



#60 Fulmine

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 03:05 PM

Punk Hazard wasn't totally removed from the map either. 

Your point?

 


That example makes no sense.

Your assertion is along the lines of

>Human introduced walking
>It's a guess if he Human can sprint/run

No, I wasn't talking about your logic. Although it's good that you know your own lacking.

 

My point is, as said in the very same post, technicality is everything here in the discussion about island-level. It's fundamental. I have already made my island-level definition clear from the start: time is crucial.

You either outright said you didn't define it like that and we can stop OR showed me how DD could actually do it without time constrain. Instead you went along with it then the moment your logic is challenged you said ''way too technical''...

You don't just say the wrong color or the wrong meaning of a word then blame others for technicality when that's not what the color/word actually is.


 

Birdcage without a doubt makes DD a true island level, this should even be a discussion. Guy could even control the timing of the birdcage, we don't even know if he had it at its fastest. In my mind there have been ony two island level feats maybe three, DD's birdcage is one of them

My definition has time factor. If he needs 1 hour then he's not island-level. Simple as that! And you can talk but can't prove he can do it fast if he wants.


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