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Astra Lost in Space (Kanata no Astra)


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#141 gamria

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 03:10 AM

Charce wants Seira's memories copied into Aries. That's still possible, since Seira's officially "dead" and not in the database. They offered him a deal, showed him how to pilot an Ark (which has cryo-freeze facilities for two) and disabled her suit thrusters to leave her helpless. But something went wrong (or right).

Maybe he was double-crossed, or maybe he waited too long and lost control of the situation. But his new friends all know they're clones now and won't permit him to use Aries that way, so they've got to go.

He's not enjoying this. Look at the knife-twisting look he wears when Arie tells him "I still trust you".

If they're smart, they'll put Charce in cryo-freeze.

[edit]

If they were smart... They'd have been using cryo-freeze all along. Less mouths to feed, less water needed, longer space-hops.

With all due respect, I must discount your reasoning on 3 basis:
 
1. During the first assassination on Planet McPa, Charce intended for Aries to be sucked into the Sphere as well. He wouldn't have done that in the first place if he intended to keep her alive for a memory transfer.
2. It was pure coincidence that the Sphere dropped them outside the Astra/Ark 12, so Charce learning how to pilot an Ark for the plan makes no sense.
3. Based on Kanata's deduction, Charce waited until Planet #5 before resuming his assassination because he didn't know how to pilot a spaceship. He needed to learn it by seeing Zack in action.

 

Wasn't cryo-freeze broken in the original ship? Astra was slightly damaged being just outside Earth

The Astra does have one functioning Cold Sleep Pod, as Zack had told to Quitterie.

 

But using it simply so that there's "less mouths to feed" is a terrible idea. The crew needed all hands on deck in order to make it through everything the universe throws at them.


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#142 monty

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:58 PM

I don't think it was coincidence, Charce had to have known the Astra was there. Whatever plan he had for preventing everyone else from following didn't work.

#143 gamria

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 05:05 AM

I don't think it was coincidence, Charce had to have known the Astra was there. Whatever plan he had for preventing everyone else from following didn't work.

Chapter 42 confirmed that it was coincidence, and that Charce had fully intended to die during the assassination

 

532867cb02.jpg01732492dd.jpg


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#144 monty

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 07:11 PM

I don't entirely believe Charce's confession.  He agreed with their deductions a bit too easily, and never explained his motives.  I don't think he's lying exactly, but he's also left a whole lot unsaid.

 

I think it must be tangled with Aries somehow unless his friend's resemblance is a red herring.


Edited by monty, 03 October 2017 - 07:13 PM.


#145 gamria

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:42 AM

Chapter 43

https://www.dropbox....hPbps06pha?dl=0


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#146 gamria

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 03:55 AM

Chapter 43

 

I don't know how I feel about Charce with this chapter, so I'll just talk about everything else that's intriguing.
 
Tricked by Clever Narrative Techniques (again)
At first I was ticked that half of the Chapter 26 flashback was full of lies. But then, I read some Japanese comments about it that pointed out something rather interesting: unlike every other flashback scene in the manga that used gray borders for the panels, the majority of the Ch 26 flashback used black borders.
 
That is, in that very chapter, Shinohara-sensei had secretly highlighted in plain sight that most of the flashback was a lie, even as Charce was regaling the story. Well played, could it be that Shinohara, in anticipation of this fake flashback, opted to use gray borders instead of black backgrounds as indications of flashbacks?
 
Still, the gray border panels in that flashback mostly involve Seira, those should be the ones that prove more credible, and higher chance of having actually occurred.
 
Speculation on Purpose
When Chapter 26 first came out, I commented that the Seira in Charce's photo at the end was awake, had different hair colour and looked older than in his flashback. I was right that he was hiding something.
 
Given Aries' age, Aries had to have been born at the same time frame as all the other kids in Group B5 (excluding Funicia), and certainly not at the same time as Seira's own birth.
 
Though Seira is older than Charce, for what purpose was a clone of her created?
"A new younger body" wouldn't make sense, given her age.
"New body to circumvent vegetation" wouldn't make sense either, as based on the flashback this chapter, she was still awake years after Charce and Aries were born.
 
Aside from possibly "provision of spare organs" like with Funicia's case, I can't think of anything else.
 
---
 
Other questions include:
1. Did Seira herself wanted a clone, or did someone else make that decision for her? 2. How aware was Seira herself of Aries' existence?
3. Why was Aries sent away to be brought up by Ema Spring in the Rosapop Sector (home was listed in Volume 1), and was Seira responsible for the matter?
 
At the very least, Vixia must've been responsible for Aries' transfer to the Mousanish Sector.
 
Reasons for Retrieval
This chapter explains a lot of things, among which was Charce's reason for summoning the Sphere on Vilavurs.
 
So at first, Charce was indeed willing to kill Aries on McPa as well, dismissing the resemblance to his sister figure as coincidence.
But after verifying that she's a clone of Seira on Vilavurs, he changed plans and decided to bring her back to Planet Astra with him.
 
His reasons could range from any of those listed in the above section, plus possible distaste at bringing any more harm to his sister figure's clone.
 
---
 
One other neat thing that was pointed out on 2ch: so there was a reason why Aries and Charce laughed in the same way in Ship Log 9. They're genetically related.

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#147 monty

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:33 AM

Interesting!  I hadn't expected Aries would have a royal connection, though it fits my guesses and explains some bits I couldn't.  Aries' suit malfunctions must have been a coincidence or red herring, then.
 

Though Seira is older than Charce, for what purpose was a clone of her created?
"A new younger body" wouldn't make sense, given her age.
"New body to circumvent vegetation" wouldn't make sense either, as based on the flashback this chapter, she was still awake years after Charce and Aries were born.
 
Aside from possibly "provision of spare organs" like with Funicia's case, I can't think of anything else.

What if Charce's story wasn't entirely fabrication? Perhaps through some stupid accident, the princess was knocked into a permanent coma.

Can you copy memories from someone in a coma? Maybe. A clone could effectively resurrect his sister.

Edited by monty, 13 October 2017 - 01:34 AM.


#148 gamria

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 03:51 PM

What if Charce's story wasn't entirely fabrication? Perhaps through some stupid accident, the princess was knocked into a permanent coma.

Can you copy memories from someone in a coma? Maybe. A clone could effectively resurrect his sister.

Like I said, when Aries was born, Seira was still awake. Thus, the logic that "Aries was created to resurrect Seira" is invalid.

While it's possible that Seira is currently in a coma, and Charce might be bringing Aries back to wake her up, why Aries was created in the first place is a whole other unknown reason.


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#149 monty

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 05:04 PM

You're right of course, excuse me. Aries' upbringing is one of the biggest mysteries remaining. It ought to be complicated and strange but as far as she knows she's ordinary.

#150 YyAoMmIi

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 04:16 PM

http://mangaseeonlin...chapter-44.html

 

This answer questions, but bring up more questions regarding Aries

 

Food for thought: Both Fake flash back and real flash back had "Seira" knocked out via fall. 

 

@gamria Translation question: chapter said Seira is dead. Would that be mistranslation, in that she is in coma atm? But that stranger cause of assassins, kinda hard to survive such a fall.

But if she is dead, why would the memory transfer even work?

 

 

Question on Aries:

How much did the king know of Aries?

Considering how much he cared of Seira, I get the impression that he doesn't mind to break the law just to resurrect Seira (human nature wise, you go greater lengths for someone you care rather then yourself). 

 

So he should have told Charce about Aries. However, the fact he didn't implies he doesn't know.

 

Then again, my assumption about him not minding law could be wrong, and he knew of Seira allowing Emma to escape. 



#151 gamria

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 06:09 AM

Been busy, will write my thoughts on chapter later, but to answer your question:
 
Seira is definitely dead
Memory transfer wouldn't work, and I'm assuming that you're asking this due to the "have my Seira back" bit in the English translation.
 
I question the wisdom of such a translation. The way 代わりに (kawarini) is used here is more along the lines of "make up for", "substitute for", "stand in for". 
That is, King Noah was saying that if the clone were still here, they could at least take Seira's place somewhat. No implication of resurrection whatsoever.
 
---
 
Before the Genome Management Act came to be, if King Noah knew about Aries and Emma's whereabouts, they would be brought back to Vixia without question.
 
After though ... the question to ask would be, in the one year after Seira's passing, how much, if any, efforts were invested into searching for Aries?
This, "how was Aries discovered to be a clone" and "who ordered for Aries' assassination" should be treated as separate, but possibly related, questions.
 
I too find it odd that if King Noah did know about Aries, that he would still have Charce be the one to carry out the plan. Hope we can reconcile this irregularity soon.

Edited by gamria, 25 October 2017 - 06:09 AM.

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#152 YyAoMmIi

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 12:18 PM

Food for thought 2:

 

Emma & Aries are the only Parent & Child of the group that had an Actual Loving relationship vs rest of the group.

They are also the only  one that are actual Parents & Child (Birth Mom still count as a parent, rather Aries has 2 moms in a way)



#153 gamria

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 04:48 AM

Food for thought 2:

 

Emma & Aries are the only Parent & Child of the group that had an Actual Loving relationship vs rest of the group.

They are also the only  one that are actual Parents & Child (Birth Mom still count as a parent, rather Aries has 2 moms in a way)

Indeed

 

Chapter 44
 
As I speculated, Seira didn't consent to the creation of a clone, and Aries was indeed purposed to be a spare like Funicia was.
The prospect of additional clones being prepared in the future for her actual rejuvenation though is chilling.
 
So Seira was responsible for sending Aries out of Vixia. I never imagined that Emma Spring was so involved in the matter though.
Makes me worried about her current status. With the news of Group B5's disappearance simmering down back on Planet Astra, Emma doesn't have the public eye to defend her.
 
It was nice that Seira was the one to name Aries.
Can't believe that she's actually dead. Poor thing.
 
But is the Vixian throne really something so major that it gives rise to usurpers?
 
---
 
I see, so Charce is alright with the suicide mission, besides fulfilling his "purpose", is because it's effectively a form of atonement for him, for failing to protect Seira.
 
Likewise, after verifying Aries' identity, he wanted to bring her back to Astra is (1) because she was someone that Seira wished to protect, and (2) because killing her would be like watching Seira die again, with him failing to protect her again.
Even if Vixia won't accept this turn of events, he still wants to try.
 
 
I just realised that convincing Charce to turn against the Originals is going to be tough, since he would effectively lose his "purpose" in life. Having spent his entire life in captivity in Vixia doesn't help.
After all, he was the only one in Ch 35 to have not express any hopes for his future.
 
So I wonder, in keeping with the theme of this manga, by what means will he find his own path, independent of his parent?
 
---
 
Something nice that 2ch pointed out, from Ch 14:
 
07304a5d39.jpg
 
The kicker is, the original term that Charce used was 親子 (oyako), for "parent and child"

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#154 gamria

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 06:24 AM

Chapter 45

https://www.dropbox....hPbps06pha?dl=0


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#155 YyAoMmIi

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 11:15 AM

Not sure what to feel about Kanata loosing his hand.

 

Well it now certain Kanata original won't try to use Kanata for body transfer since he damaged.

And since Kanata goal is different, losing a limb isn't not much of a big deal.

 

A better option to stop the wormhole is Aries, since he would have had to stop it if she came close. 



#156 Kao Arika

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 07:16 AM

Haven't commented in a while, but I'm very amazed at the development that Astra has been going for a while. Like, wow.

 

Especially the latest couple of chapters and the entire traitor's revelation. At some point, it was kinda a given that Aries was also a clone... but still, the reveal was painful. At least she does have two parents (in a sense, considering she is Seira's clone) who care a lot about her, one giving her away because this was (the memories' transference/a substitute organs' sack -for lack of a better word) , frankly, the worst way to live.

 

Charce' whole twisted morality due to loyalty and having an "objective to live" was... devastating. Shinohara, you made it again. Haven't been feeling this way since, well, the Sket Dance' "Switch On" arc in 2012-ish (more accordingly 2013, considering the scanlation).

 

@YyAoMmIi - Was going to comment something (funny? blame my dark sense of humor at the moment) along those lines too. WELL, Kanata's original has another reason to not wanting his clone back (excluding the whole situation that is going on in Astra), now that he also lost a hand.

 

This was a very intense moment... although who knows how it will play it off (I'm fuzzy with memories about the B-5 crew's skills, but I think that... perhaps, Zack may be able to do something with that?)


Edited by Kao Arika, 11 November 2017 - 11:06 AM.


#157 gamria

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 04:39 AM

Chapter 45
 
Charce's expression in the middle, heartbreaking.
Can't believe he had another controller, seriously.
 
I am glad that the crew managed to get through to him. I wanted everyone to go home together.
Yun Hua and Quitterie's lines were especially poignant.
 
And of course Kanata. The way he scolded Charce heavily reminds me of the sort of straight talk that Gintoki (Gintama) would give.
His Ultimate Dive Bomber (for real this time), his jumping over a floating wormhole was epic. I think he might just have finally surpassed Bossun in likability now.
 
Losing a right hand is devastating for an athlete (not that he wants to be one), it'll cripple his decathlon skills. I dearly hope he'll get some kind of replacement when he returns to Astra.
 
---
 
Alright, now that we've settled the matter of the Assailant/Traitor, the biggest matter left is the mystery of Planet Astra.
At our current pace, and given this chapter's extended pages, we might stretch into a Volume 6 dedicated to their final destination, Astra.
 
(At a pace of 2 characters per Volume cover, all 10 of the crew would've been featured by Volume 5, so most had believed that would've been the end)
 
I still believe that before they can get the Originals under arrest, the crew will first have to make sure *they* won't get incarcerated for knowing too much intergalatic secrets, what with Polina, the Astra spaceship and other things concerning Earth.

 

A better option to stop the wormhole is Aries, since he would have had to stop it if she came close. 

Well Kanata had to leave Aries with the others to ensure they won't be sucked in.

Besides, it's not like Kanata can just drag Aries with him.

 

 

Especially the latest couple of chapters and the entire traitor's revelation. At some point, it was kinda a given that Aries was also a clone... but still, the reveal was painful. At least she does have two parents (in a sense, considering she is Seira's clone) who care a lot about her, one giving her away because this was (the memories' transference/a substitute organs' sack -for lack of a better word) , frankly, the worst way to live.

 

This was a very intense moment... although who knows how it will play it off (I'm fuzzy with memories about the B-5 crew's skills, but I think that... perhaps, Zack may be able to do something with that?)

I believe the term you;'re looking for is "spare", as with the case with Funicia

 

Skills you may be looking at are Zack (engineering), Quitterie (medic) and Luca (craftsman), though I really don't think they can create a prosthetic with the supplies they have.

Hmmm... maybe they can give Kanata a hook? He does want to be the captain of his own spaceship after all


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#158 gamria

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 06:22 AM

Chapter 46

https://www.dropbox....hPbps06pha?dl=0


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#159 gamria

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 06:04 AM

Chapter 46

 

Surprised that we didn't face any external threats from Planet Galem. Then again, Kanata was the only one who could counteract those threats, so with him incapacitated, the rest wouldn't have been able to handle it.
He did more than enough settling the internal threats once and for all anyway.
 
Man, Kanata is great. Between him and Bossun, how could Shinohara-sensei ever come up with a more likable protagonist?
 
Looking forward to the truth in 2 weeks' time

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#160 Negative Syndicate

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 10:15 AM

It is announced that this series will end on December 30th (3 chapters left).


Edited by Negative Syndicate, 01 December 2017 - 10:15 AM.





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