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[Character] Gecko Moria


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#281 Petite Fleur

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 02:07 PM


ah yes minor characters......
 
and if you really want to split hairs, luffy didn't need any of those guys...... he could of just broken Oz's spine with a few punches.

 

When he went one on one he failed to go it alone, so that's not true.


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#282 captain kidd

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 02:19 PM

When he went one on one he failed to go it alone, so that's not true.

 

ya because the shadows ran out. Luffy never tried just himself vs Oz after the shadows left the whole crew got up.

 

also that was because Oz remembered he was a zombie. if Oz forgot he is a zombie like he did in his final moments, then I am sure luffy could of broken a leg or something.

"hahaha oz broke your leg, and since you are not a zombie or anything you cant walk now!!!!! hahahahaha"

"darn it, if only i was a zombie i would still be able to walk and fight, but since i am not a zombie i cant do that..... oh well, i am going to sit down now"

"yes you sit down, make sure you don't break anything else or you might die from blood lose"


 
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#283 Petite Fleur

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 02:21 PM


ya because the shadows ran out. Luffy never tried just himself vs Oz after the shadows left the whole crew got up.

 

Luffy wouldn't have succeeded by himself, especially not within the timeframe that they had.


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#284 Enbima

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 04:37 PM

LOL he fought against Kaido more than 23 years ago. Are you kidding moria? hahaha


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#285 Fulmine

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 09:51 PM

So 1 year after Roger died, I think. 21 years of being lazy. Hopefully 2 years of training would bring back some of that awesomeness.


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#286 D.Hyuga

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 08:45 AM

Of course it will, in fact Moria-Croc-Dofla alliance would dominate NW, if something like that would ever to happ


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#287 capu

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:05 AM

Am pretty interested whether we will see him this arc and which sides he will choose. Really cant see Moria allying with the SHs, as to say joining the fleet or something like that, but possibly he will become and ally of an SN (or mayhaps even joining that crew?, unlikely i know), which betrays Kaidou (Apoo i see as real Kaidou ally, Kidd (whom i believe to work well with Moria), Hawkins (same as Kidd, since both r of a "darker" character), Drake).

 

Croc i truly dont see to be in Wano, he might be used against BB though, since they already got to know each other in ID and BB was kind of his successor at being a shicki. Dont remember Croc having any connection to Kaidou. Or was such a thing ever talked about?

On the other hand croc might become a thing in a possible RA arc, since his connection to Iva  :aww:


Edited by capu, 13 July 2018 - 07:05 AM.


#288 Enbima

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:12 AM

Moria vs BM will be interessting. I think Morias DF is much superior than BMs


To be effective In combat, a warrior must not feel for his enemy. Close your heart to their desperation. Close your heart for their suffering. The road ahead is long and unforgiving. No place for a boy. You must be a warrior.

- Goku to Gohan.

 stop dreaming


#289 Chillman

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:21 AM

Moria vs BM will be interessting. I think Morias DF is much superior than BMs


Why?

#290 Fulmine

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:40 PM

Why?

Let see, off the top of my head

 

-Moria doesn't need his opponent to be scared of him to take their shadows.

-He can pump up his own strength, BM has not done so.

-Doppelman is effectively a Logia partner and quite powerful one (can increase in size and become huge ass attack like Tokage shown in MF War)

-Moria can swap with Doppelman which is incredibly useful in battles (a limited version of Law's swapping)

-He can swap with Doppelman partially, too, which makes himself also a quasi-Logia (of course, provided that he can react and swap)

 

 

-BM can inject souls into objects which allows her to control the environments and she essentially has 3 more Paramecia that can make flame, lightning and rain (and more depends on the user's creativeness, unless there's a limit we have not been told).

-Zeus and Prometheus let BM fly so mobility is high.

-She doesn't have to worry about her soul providers going into sunlight or touching salt

 

 

From those, I personally would pick Moria in the context of purely fighting face-to-face (so we don't have to worry about factor like what if someone sneak in and bring Moria's victims to the sunlight). Having command of 3 elements is powerful but a Logia like Doppelman (which I think can deal with flame, rain and lightning just fine) that allows you to be semi-Logia and swap is preferrable IMO. The only thing I desire from BM is her ability to fight on-air. Though we never know if Moria can do the same. His Doppelman can be solid and turn into bat after all.

 

If Moria has gotten back his old form or even better, it would be quite a match.


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#291 capu

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 04:44 AM


-Moria doesn't need his opponent to be scared of him to take their shadows.

Does not really matter since noone is scared of  Moria anyway....they r scared of BM though and it was made pretty clear, that Jinbei is a unprecendented, thus special case (who got plot armor, like Luffy had in this story round about a zillion times).

 

 

 


-He can pump up his own strength, BM has not done so.

Both true, dont get me wrong. But i, because of the similarities and the differences of both fruits, i somehow figured that she can use her homies to do what Moria did with his zombies, but as u said has not happened yet, thus speculation on my (our?) part.

 

 

 


-Doppelman is effectively a Logia partner and quite powerful one (can increase in size and become huge ass attack like Tokage shown in MF War)

Sry but i dont remember Doppelman to make powerful attacks. I only remember him blocking Luffys (normal) ones. And Tokage (if that was the lizard thing used vs Oz?) is an completely different DF ability and has very little/nothing to do with Doppelman i would say (could be wrong obviously though). If its the lizard thing i would compare the difference between Tokage and Doppelman with Luffys DF. His kicks while stretching also have little to do with his ability the withstand blunt attacks, except that they are the product of him being a DF user.

 

 

 


-Moria can swap with Doppelman which is incredibly useful in battles (a limited version of Law's swapping)

Agreed on both turns.

BTW,out of interest/the sake of discussion does Laws swapping (since he does need a room for that as well?) in case of great range also mean his lifeforce gets diminished?

 

 

 


-He can swap with Doppelman partially, too, which makes himself also a quasi-Logia (of course, provided that he can react and swap)

Dont remember that either, sry, but was he hit the moment he was partially himself and partially his Doppelman? Would  like to know whether he would get hurt himself if his Doppelman part is hit when they are "fused".

 

 

 


From those, I personally would pick Moria in the context of purely fighting

I certainly would not. Out of a different perspective though. Moria himself (overall) is pretty weak. DDs superiority (ok granted with help of Pacifista, but lets be honest here, they get one shot by Sanji post TS!, thus they really cant be considered to be of any use vs a real powerhouse) undermines that. Also the extreme difference between TB SH crew overall power and post TS each and everyones power as an individual. What this has to do with the fruit? The following. In order to really use it and profit from its greatest ability (shadow taking) Moria needs to first cut ones Shadow. Even with Doppelman, since his ordinary movement speed (not the Doppelman teleport time) is pretty mediocre, he wont be able to catch an CoO user of guard and thus wont even be able to significantly weaken them or wait for them to die by sunlight and neither will he be able to strentghen himself with their power (although we saw how Shadow Asgard in itself makes him vulnerable). Therefore his fruit does not really help against others (not considering the possiblity that he has gotten strong shadows through seemingly unaware/carefree enemies like the SHs) when he cant use its best skill. BM on the other hand was stated never before to not have been feared, or rather say her skill not to work. That means, and her position and real power, that even her biggest enemies might not be as unaffected by is as Jinbei was, they might be able to block a big part of it, but remember, if u get wounded in a fight that very moment u might unconsciously / automatically have a little fear inside urself, which BM might instantly exploit. Thus the possiblity of defending against Moria fruit are far bigger and can be done by far lesser skilled people than can be done against BM. For her u need insane focus/concentraion or, as jinbei got it, plot armor.


Edited by capu, 14 July 2018 - 04:47 AM.


#292 D.Hyuga

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 07:10 AM


Moria himself (overall) is pretty weak

 

Moria was big slacker since his defeat against Kaido, and was also very weak willed. (same goes for Croc).

Their top performance should yonko contender lv.



#293 capu

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 07:53 AM


Moria was big slacker since his defeat against Kaido, and was also very weak willed. (same goes for Croc).

Their top performance should yonko contender lv
It truly is possible but when it comes to Moria i put my arguments on what we've seen since it is the basis which we all know best about (and only way which is not speculation. it could be, i doubt it though, that Moria was in his kaidou time several times stronger but that is what we cannot say for certain, the variable of said difference is a huge unknown after all).

#294 Fulmine

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 03:31 AM


Does not really matter since noone is scared of Moria anyway....

...

And precisely why having a fruit that doesn't require its user to be scary works perfectly? How does that not matter? :rly: Moria's fruit's shadow stealing is superior to soul's fruit's life stealing because it does not have a hard-to-induce condition like scared opponent for it to work. If there's no shadow you can easily bring a lightsource like candle or lamp but you can't easily scare people, especially between fighters of similar prowess. You want an ability that is available most of the time or an ability that only few people can manage (Generally speaking. Obviously you can be one of those few people like BM and good for you)?

 

Your reply is not relevant in the slightest bit. Not sure how you arrived at that.

 

Btw, you mean no one of high-top level or with strong will because a lot of people would be scared of Moria LOL

 

 


they r scared of BM though and it was made pretty clear, that Jinbei is a unprecendented, thus special case (who got plot armor, like Luffy had in this story round about a zillion times).

It's not plot-armor. Jinbe has always been that way. He made a scene in Marine Ford and he faced Akainu without fear. It's not like Oda made up his courage/bravery out of thin air just so that he would not be one-shot by BM...

 

 


And Tokage (if that was the lizard thing used vs Oz?) is an completely different DF ability and has very little/nothing to do with Doppelman i would say (could be wrong obviously though). If its the lizard thing i would compare the difference between Tokage and Doppelman with Luffys DF. His kicks while stretching also have little to do with his ability the withstand blunt attacks, except that they are the product of him being a DF user.

They are all from Moria's shadow which is Doppelman. He merely change the shape (bat, lizard, himself etc.) according to his purpose in the fight.

 

 


Dont remember that either, sry, but was he hit the moment he was partially himself and partially his Doppelman? Would like to know whether he would get hurt himself if his Doppelman part is hit when they are "fused".

When Robin choked and snapped his neck.

 

 

 


Moria himself (overall) is pretty weak. DDs superiority (ok granted with help of Pacifista, but lets be honest here, they get one shot by Sanji post TS!, thus they really cant be considered to be of any use vs a real powerhouse) undermines that.

Being one-shot means their durability is weak, not their offense. Those laser would still do terrible damage to post-TS fighters. And frankly that's all DD needed them for. He himself can occupy Moria so Moria wouldn't touch the Pacifista.

 

 


Also the extreme difference between TB SH crew overall power and post TS each and everyones power as an individual

And yet Moria fought one of WB Commanders, Curiel, without problem. He also had few bruises when the war ended. Like you said, DD brought several Pacifista with him. You don't bring a bunch of laser guns with you if you have extreme difference in power compared to your opponent. Why couldn't DD one-shot Moria before he was saved by the invisible dude (presumably) then? He just couldn't!

 

 


In order to really use it and profit from its greatest ability (shadow taking) Moria needs to first cut ones Shadow. Even with Doppelman, since his ordinary movement speed (not the Doppelman teleport time) is pretty mediocre, he wont be able to catch an CoO user of guard and thus wont even be able to significantly weaken them or wait for them to die by sunlight and neither will he be able to strentghen himself with their power (although we saw how Shadow Asgard in itself makes him vulnerable). Therefore his fruit does not really help against others (not considering the possiblity that he has gotten strong shadows through seemingly unaware/carefree enemies like the SHs) when he cant use its best skill. BM on the other hand was stated never before to not have been feared, or rather say her skill not to work. That means, and her position and real power, that even her biggest enemies might not be as unaffected by is as Jinbei was, they might be able to block a big part of it, but remember, if u get wounded in a fight that very moment u might unconsciously / automatically have a little fear inside urself, which BM might instantly exploit. Thus the possiblity of defending against Moria fruit are far bigger and can be done by far lesser skilled people than can be done against BM. For her u need insane focus/concentraion or, as jinbei got it, plot armor.

All of your talk is still about the user, not the fruit itself. The soul fruit's life stealing works because BM is scary, doesn't it? In fact, you said ''against BM'' LOL. We're talking about the fruits. Sure, the user has to be at certain level to make use of the fruit but Moria's is much more available.

 

Also not all people are CoO users. And Moria's speed is adequate. Again, he fought Curiel and the SHs and they could not hurt him until NightmareLuffy. Speed is the one thing that has not been shown to change post-TS. Pre-TSLuffy fought in the MFWar against people of New World level just fine.

 

Finally, by your logic BM would one-shot Kaidou, Shanks, WB, BB, Admirals etc. Her ability only works on those who are already scared of her. Hyperbole is a thing. It's what her children (who should be scared of her) said, not Oda's omnipotent narrative. So no, Jinbe is alright. He was not scared of Akainu and he met WB before. He's also not her children that got fear instilled at young age. No plot-armor.


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#295 D.Hyuga

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 06:26 AM


The soul fruit's life stealing works because BM is scary, doesn't it? In fact, you said ''against BM'' LOL.

 

We still don't know mechanics behind BM fruit, she used against Jinbe ability that is gamble game, and if you are scared you lose(your life), but there is a lot more to her power. We know that she has soul minions that go arround collecting fragments of hers citizens souls. So question is, are this conditions  'df's must have rules' like willingly giving up souls or is it just something she made due to lack of imagination. I bet that she can bruise up soul essence out of whom ever she hit, which would explain what happened to Luffy.



#296 capu

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 03:02 AM


And precisely why having a fruit that doesn't require its user to be scary works perfectly? How does that not matter?

Because it has nothing to do in a discussion which fruit is more powerful and which is not! If a basic condition for any fruit is a certain thing (BMs fruit needs strength in order to strike fear into others!), and that condition is met in BMs case, mind u, than that ability that is an instant "lifedrain" as far as we know, which only ever had 1 exception we know of (jinbei) than that puts that fruit miles above ANYTHING the shadow fruit can do!

 

U cant expect someone who has a DF having i.e. different poisons which are separated by their color and only like that can be distinguished (with a very high range between the toxicity signified by the color) to be used as effective by a colorblind person and a person who aint colorblind can u?

 

U think someone who aint having any interest in the medical stuff,and thus knows nothing about it, to use the OPfruit from Law as effective as Law does can u? 

No one cannot and thats why ur argument  makes little sense. U simply disregard a key characteristic of a fruits background /conditions to undermine their true power. The condition does not overcome the benefits gained from such a fruit and an instant lifedrain like BM has, even though it needs fear, it is something that certainly is among the biggest powers we have heard of until now. 

 

Moreover u totally disregard the fact that Moria cannot use his skill on powerhouses either! Nearly noone with CoO gets captured as easily as the SHs do for plot reasons. Moria does not have the strenght to fight powerhouses himself, we saw him being dealt by several characters without effort (Jinbei+DD)!

 

 

 


Moria's fruit's shadow stealing is superior to soul's fruit's life stealing because it does not have a hard-to-induce condition like scared opponent for it to work.

Ohh but it has! He needs to cut their shadow and in current standard of power he is already dead before he even reached his scissors let alone cut the shadow! U think Katakuri will be overcome by Moria? Laughable he 1hit KOs Moria without Moria even having finished the thought process of what to do and how to do it! 

Yes Katakuri cannot do the same when it comes to BMs fruit, he simply cant defend from it, since he fears her wrath!

 

 

 


You want an ability that is available most of the time or an ability that only few people can manage (Generally speaking. Obviously you can be one of those few people like BM and good for you)?

See this is what u dont really take into account. U speak in a discussion of powerrealation between fruits and then ALL its powers need to be taken into account and in that aspect BMs>>Morias. Since Lifedrain>>getting a shadow, which can be "easily" defeated, since weakness salt/sea/getting better personally. Morias limitation in his fruit are far bigger than BMs and u dont consider that at all!

 

 

 


tw, you mean no one of high-top level or with strong will because a lot of people would be scared of Moria LOL

Of couse we speak of power, why would i talk about Syrop (Usoop home island) lvl of strength? 

 

 

 


It's not plot-armor. Jinbe has always been that way. He made a scene in Marine Ford and he faced Akainu without fear. It's not like Oda made up his courage/bravery out of thin air just so that he would not be one-shot by BM...

Still so far ONLY jinbei was able to do it, thus, because everybody can use salt, BMs fruit still >>> Morias....

 

 

 


They are all from Moria's shadow which is Doppelman. He merely change the shape (bat, lizard, himself etc.) according to his purpose in the fight.

K did not remember that one. 

Still does not matter since Moria can ONLY make a doppelman with the same DF skills he himself has, whereas BMs "clones" can use fire, lightning, thus she can implant skills previously not acquired consequently again BMsfruit>>Morias!

Moreover (k granted thats because of BMs soul>Morias) her homies like prometheus are far more devastating than morias doppelman and she he at least 2 who can do so.

 

 

 


Being one-shot means their durability is weak, not their offense. Those laser would still do terrible damage to post-TS fighters. And frankly that's all DD needed them for. He himself can occupy Moria so Moria wouldn't touch the Pacifista.

even post TS fighters like Luffy right after the TS, meaning at SA, had good enough CoO to evade the attacks, Moria had not....so ur point? Moria is weak?ok....if u say so...after all its his fault for not having CoO...

I truly see no sense in discussion what help 5 (?) Pacifista  against a true powerhouse can be honestly. They get oneshot by SA Sanji....

 

 

 


And yet Moria fought one of WB Commanders, Curiel, without problem.

who had EL Luffy lvl of power? We know nothing about him, simply being a commander (not nearly a top commander that is) makes him good for paradise, NW powerhouse lvl is different. That starts somewhere inbetween MF war Luffy and post TS Luffy, and thats only the starting point.

 

 

 


He also had few bruises when the war ended.

because after Jinbei he took the raincheck on the idea i pick a fight with powerhouses! He afterwards only fought mediocre enemies, NW mediocre but far from the powerful ones. and iirc after 1 punch from jinbei he spilled blood and his eyes had the usual i faint for a time (short~) look.

 

 

 


You don't bring a bunch of laser guns with you if you have extreme difference in power compared to your opponent.

If u r a JOKER like DD is, who  thinks u way beneath his lvl (DD stated clearly that Moria is unfit for shicki title, ergo that statement with way below ones' lvl) u most likely do. 

I mean Klitschko would not see much sense in fighting me either and would most likely ask his weakest pupil to do so, if not even someone below that ones lvl that is.

 

 

 


Why couldn't DD one-shot Moria before he was saved by the invisible dude (presumably) then? He just couldn't!

Why would he even try to oneshot him when he can have a fun  time seeing him struggle? U dont get DDs character obviously.

 

Mayhaps he was not focussed enough (because he did not take moria seriously at all-->again signifiying a huge difference in powerlvl) or and far more likely because he did not expect something like that to happen. Noone knew (iirc) that Moria had an underling like that!

Why would DD get such an idea. Not everyone is like all aware at all times and thinks wait Moria might have someone to make him invisible...noone does that why would they? U cant take every possiblity into account in a fight, otherwise u make decisions too late after all.

 

 

 


Sure, the user has to be at certain level to make use of the fruit but Moria's is much more available.

i dont disagree on that point (if the salt weakness is disregarded that is) but that does in no way make the fruit itself with all its abilities anywhere near as powerful as BMs fruit and her (or someone else whos powerful) abilities with it. This is adiscussion about power comparison between fruits and that one is easily won by BMs!

 

 

 


Also not all people are CoO users.

True, most of the powerful ones have at least a little though.

 

 

 


Again, he fought Curiel and the SHs and they could not hurt him until NightmareLuffy.

Most of that was due to Oars though not because of Moria himself. The SHs where not defeated by Moria after all but by Oars+Moria and thus it was more like Oars+Luffy+Moria vs. Zoro, Sanji, Nami, Franky, Brook, Chopper, Ussop. 

 

 

 


Finally, by your logic BM would one-shot Kaidou, Shanks, WB, BB, Admirals etc. Her ability only works on those who are already scared of her.

Fear is within everyone, except jinbei apparently, but the real powerhouses dont fear like the usual fodder does, thus the lifedrain skill wont take 100years instantly but most likely only few years or even months at a certain moment. But that would only work for the people listet or folks of similar strength since there fear of BM is far less than others' is. Moria would die instantly though for certain. He went into hiding because he shit his pants due to kaidou after all...

 

Moreover in a real fight betwenn anyone the more damage u take and the more likely it becomes u loose the fight the more fear u feel and the higher BMs lifedrain becomes. Meaning that against an admiral which might not be affected by BMs lifedrain at start after having taken  damage that might change significantly , since he felt the strength of a yonkou and understood that he might die in the process of figthing her because of already received wounds thus unlike Moria BMs DF skill actually aint at a standstill..

 

_________________

Still wondering whether he might reappear. I would actually like him and Croc to join the SHs (k Moria only as fleet). Croc sadly is simply too cool to join anyone....

 

A clash between Croc and Moria would be epic though. I really want to see those 2 again in order to see how much they changed during TS and what aims they currently follow.


Edited by capu, 26 July 2018 - 03:08 AM.


#297 Fulmine

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 08:32 AM

Happy Birthday Moria! Want to see your post-TS self stomp on Katakuri.


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