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Danganronpa 3 The End of Kibougamine Gakuen - Mirai-hen/ Zetsubou-Hen


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#581 Candles

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 06:35 PM

I think we can finally forgo the spoiler tags since all of us that were playing have already finished the game at this point.  

As far as post game content goes the talent development plan is really enjoyable but it has two major flaws that almost ruin it for me. The first is that the card draw is random which seems completely pointless and very frustrating to the point that I got about nine Gundam cards before I finally got Chiaki and I still haven't got Peko yet. Of the first games characters Hagakure was the first card I got which is the same as getting nothing. I don't see why you wouldn't allow players to choose which characters they want to unlock or at least make it like the mono-machine were the more coins you put in the less your chances of getting a repeat. The other flaw for me is the auto save because it forces you to actually play three times per character to see all the possible character events which can be more time consuming than it's worth. Still I love this mode for giving us plenty of funny and heartwarming interactions between all three games' cast that we would've never have gotten to see but they made it more frustrating than it needs to be.  

Also playing through chapter one again there was some nice foreshadowing moments, for instance in the very first free time event available if you're looking to hang out with Rantaro you'll find him in the library close to the hidden bookcase. There's also Maki's inclusion in the group that went to the basement to prepare to fight Monokuma. Half of that group you expect to be there and Angie and Yumiko were invited for their supposed divine and magical powers respectively but in Maki's case Kaito looked at her and said "you seem like you know how to handle yourself in a fight" and invited her along.

That said now that I think about it there doesn't seem to be any sensible reason for why Maki didn't kill someone during chapter one. We find out that her approach to killing is purely pragmatic and she's killed anything from school friends to innocent strangers and as far as pragmatism goes it makes more sense to commit a murder here than in any other chapter in the series.
Killing someone who would've died anyway in order to save yourself and 14 others is as practical as it gets. Now for the average person who has never killed that would still be a big leap to make but committing the act itself would be no problem for her. The other obvious hurdle would be choosing who to sacrifice but she was aware that Ryoma had offered himself and even if he hadn't it would be better to pick a person at random before allowing yourself and everyone else to die. She wasn't resigned to her fate because she went with the group to fight against Monokuma in what was thought to be the final hour but for someone like her there was a much more simple solution at hand. Perhaps I'm missing something but it seems like something she would most likely do in that situation.


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#582 Goddess Nike

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 08:00 PM

It's hard for me to decide which is the best game in the series. V3 had better game-play mechanics (especially in trial) and more ambitious storytelling while DR2 had the strongest overall cast, most difficult murder trials, and best end game twist. If I had to rank my top five murder trials I'd say trials four, five, two from DR2 and trial one from V3 are my top four in that order. The last spot would either go to trial one from DR2 or trial four from V3.

Speaking of trial one of V3, I have to say that while I really liked it I think it could've been a lot better if it happened in chapter two instead. For me it would've improved upon three things; 1) Kaede's desperation to end the game, 2) Shuichi and Kaede's bond, and 3) the emotional reaction from the player

1) With Kaede's proactive attitude and assertive personality it makes sense that she would want to end the game as much as anybody but in all honesty the horrors of the killing game don't start until after the first murder has occurred so resorting to homicide to stop seems a bit excessive. I think if she had gone through the pain of seeing one of her classmates murdered and then being forced to do a trial to find the culprit and then watching another of her classmates get executed then that would be enough to push her over the edge into wanting to end the game by any means including possibly murder of the mastermind.
The time limit motive is most similar to the funhouse in DR2 in it's intent and that didn't occur until chapter four so it could've easily been done in chapter two here. I think surviving the horrors of one trial would make Kaede crossing the line from "I have to end this killing game" into "I have to end this killing game even if I have to become a killer myself" much more acceptable.

2) Shuichi and Kaede are two of my favorites in the entire franchise and I love them both as individuals and as by far my favorite ship but they did not spend that long together relative to the bond the narrative suggests they shared. In DR1 and DR2 because they all knew each other for years before they got amnesia you can forgive the bonds of certain characters seeming being disproportionate to the amount of time spent together because it's heavily implied that their feelings towards each other remained if only subconsciously. In this case I think having at least one more chapter would have made the Shuichi and Kaede bond more convincing and thus their separation a lot more poignant.

3) I think because it occurred so early in the game Kaede's death didn't live up to it's full potential in terms of emotional resonance. You would think that a chapter where the protagonist commits a murder in an attempt to save everyone but kills the wrong person and gets executed would be the most heartbreaking thing that the franchise had done to this point and while it was certainly still heartbreaking for me, chapter four of the first game or chapter two of the second game were better in terms of emotional resonance. I think part of the reason it didn't resonate as strongly for me is that it was so early that I was still getting to know the characters and building up emotional attachment. If we had one more chapter and several more hours to play as Kaede I think that emotional cut would have been a lot deeper for me.

From what I can see the only benefit of doing Kaede's death in chapter one is that it adds shock value because even for people that predicted that Kaede might become a culprit and die ( most of us thought it might happen later in the game so we were still caught completely off guard. I can definitely see potential narrative problems with waiting to long to do the protagonist switch but I think chapter two would allow for more emotional attachment both from the characters in universe as well as the players while still giving Shuichi more than enough time to develop as his own protagonist afterwards. All that said I do think chapter one was really well written and is one of my favorites of the whole series.
 

 


I am inclined to believe those recordings of Pre Shuichi, Pre Kaito and Pre Kaede were fake to make them despair.


How would that be possible though, Tsumugi couldn't cosplay as them since they're real people and it wouldn't serve any purpose as the truth is already bad enough without faking something pointless like that.

As far as post game content goes the talent development plan is really enjoyable but it has two major flaws that almost ruin it for me. The first is that the card draw is random which seems completely pointless and very frustrating to the point that I got about nine Gundam cards before I finally got Chiaki and I still haven't got Peko yet. Of the first games characters Hagakure was the first card I got which is the same as getting nothing. I don't see why you wouldn't allow players to choose which characters they want to unlock or at least make it like the mono-machine were the more coins you put in the less your chances of getting a repeat. The other flaw for me is the auto save because it forces you to actually play three times per character to see all the possible character events which can be more time consuming than it's worth. Still I love this mode for giving us plenty of funny and heartwarming interactions between all three games' cast that we would've never have gotten to see but they made it more frustrating than it needs to be.



I agree both of those are annoying and I'll add the fact that you don't have the option unlock the events scenes in the gallery. It takes a long time to get to some scenes such as the the school festival ones and especially the ones from the winter of your senior year so it would be nice to be able to view those without having to play it all the way through again. I said this before but I would totally watch an AU slice of life anime based on this mode, basically what the despair arc was for the first two episodes but with the cast of all three games for the entire season.

Edited by Goddess Nike, 29 October 2017 - 08:01 PM.

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#583 gamria

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 11:11 PM

@Candles @Goddess Nike

 

I don't know if Kid Frost has finished the game yet, so for now, use spoiler tags


 

Spoiler


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#584 Goddess Nike

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 07:16 AM

I don't know if Kid Frost has finished the game yet


She's been done for about a week now...her reaction was just what I hoped for :lolxg:

I understand the point about the advanced technology and of course in Danganronpa anything is possible but I just find it weird that they would make such a big deal about Tsumugi not being able to disguise herself as them since chapter one when Team Danganronpa possesses what would appear to be functional cloning...it makes the former plot point kind of moot.

As far as the epilogue I thought that part was more a callback to the first game's ending where before Makoto and the others opened the vault they questioned whether or not everything Junko said was a lie and that the outside world would be just fine when they went out (which we know wasn't the case and Junko was in fact right about everything). The statements in the V3 epilogue were similar and while it was possible that Tsumugi did in fact lie I don't see any evidence of it besides the fact that it's possible.

Granted I don't remember much details about the end of the game since that was a few weeks ago and I played chapters five and six in one night and finished about 2:00am so I wasn't fully awake by the end of it. I'll replay trial six when I get a chance because it's probable I missed a lot by sleep playing to the end which will change my opinion of it.  



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#585 Insane Soul

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:26 PM

She's been done for about a week now...her reaction was just what I hoped for :lolxg:

 

She broke, didn't she.

 

I will answer your's and Gamria's when I proceed on Salmon mode a little more...this is hard

 

c476dc1a01.jpg

 

 

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ME TO ANSWER

 

 

Spoiler The correct answer was

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#586 Spamamdorf

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 01:31 PM


That said now that I think about it there doesn't seem to be any sensible reason for why Maki didn't kill someone during chapter one.

Because she said she didn't want to kill people? She passed herself off as a child caretaker, because she wanted to be normal and not an assassin. Which is why Kaito going on constantly about her not being a killer touched her so much
 

 

 


How would that be possible though, Tsumugi couldn't cosplay as them since they're real people and it wouldn't serve any purpose as the truth is already bad enough without faking something pointless like that.

I've heard a theory that this is why the prologue exists. So that those fake personas of the ultimates were given and that so long as Tsumugi was cosplaying as them in school uniforms she could pretend to be them and make the videos. Add to this that the background in Tsumugi's ultimate lab is the same as in the casting videos and the videos are in those uniforms and not their ultimate attire and it starts to come together.

 

This is of course ignoring the extremely likely possibility that the cospox was faked itself, seeing as it's a hilariously suspicious and convenient way for Tsumugi to get out of suspicion. In fact I was surprised no one questioned it at all when the only evidence Tsumugi didn't commit the murder was "Yeah I went into the bathroom briefly with exactly one person and showed her a rash, so I didn't cosplay as anyone"

 

 

 

 


but I just find it weird that they would make such a big deal about Tsumugi not being able to disguise herself as them since chapter one when Team Danganronpa possesses what would appear to be functional cloning...it makes the former plot point kind of moot.

That was largely to push suspicions away from Tsumugi I would imagine, seeing as she's the mastermind you'd want to make her as unassuming as possible.


Edited by Spamamdorf, 01 November 2017 - 01:35 PM.

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“I promised, remember? I said I would save you even if it meant fighting the entire world.” “Yes…you did.”

Othinus narrowed her eye as the boy held her in his arms. She looked happy. She looked truly happy.

“But you don’t have to worry. I was already saved from the moment you said that to me.”


#587 Insane Soul

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:19 PM

I also heard that Pink can be considered a color of a lie...but I don't know from where is it from.


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#588 gamria

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 06:31 AM

Because she said she didn't want to kill people? She passed herself off as a child caretaker, because she wanted to be normal and not an assassin. Which is why Kaito going on constantly about her not being a killer touched her so much

That's exactly it. Furthermore, Kaito said it in Trial 5, Maki didn't like herself at the start. While her sense of self defense is strong, her sense of self preservation would be really weak.

 

 

I've heard a theory that this is why the prologue exists. So that those fake personas of the ultimates were given and that so long as Tsumugi was cosplaying as them in school uniforms she could pretend to be them and make the videos. Add to this that the background in Tsumugi's ultimate lab is the same as in the casting videos and the videos are in those uniforms and not their ultimate attire and it starts to come together.

 

This is of course ignoring the extremely likely possibility that the cospox was faked itself, seeing as it's a hilariously suspicious and convenient way for Tsumugi to get out of suspicion. In fact I was surprised no one questioned it at all when the only evidence Tsumugi didn't commit the murder was "Yeah I went into the bathroom briefly with exactly one person and showed her a rash, so I didn't cosplay as anyone"

A theory that speculates the "timing" at which the fake audition videos were made, huh?

While I still believe that it wasn't Tsumugi herself who was acting in the videos, I will add that your theory will be dependent on her doing those videos once access to her Ultimate Lab becomes available. From Chapter 4 onwards, in other words.

 

I also heard that Pink can be considered a color of a lie...but I don't know from where is it from.

It's Magenta, and the colour itself doesn't have that connotation. It's only in this game that Magenta is associated with lying, and incidentally, Kaede's colour theme is Magenta.


 

Chapter 1

 

Spoiler

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#589 Spamamdorf

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 03:18 PM


I will add that your theory will be dependent on her doing those videos once access to her Ultimate Lab becomes available
Being that she's the mastermind I don't see why. She could have still made the videos before the whole thing, and that's why the prologue exists separate from everything else. To create ficitonal characters that look like the ultimates but have different clothing to them, for use by Tsumugi.

iyzTKCh.jpg


“I promised, remember? I said I would save you even if it meant fighting the entire world.” “Yes…you did.”

Othinus narrowed her eye as the boy held her in his arms. She looked happy. She looked truly happy.

“But you don’t have to worry. I was already saved from the moment you said that to me.”


#590 Spamamdorf

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 06:33 PM


The Class Trial really does feel "psycho-cool" this time around, ambiguous meaning not withstanding, what with the neon and cybernetic vibe.

That actually contributes to the other theory me and rototom had about the world itself being VR. 

 

Spoiler Long


Edited by Spamamdorf, 05 November 2017 - 06:43 PM.

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“I promised, remember? I said I would save you even if it meant fighting the entire world.” “Yes…you did.”

Othinus narrowed her eye as the boy held her in his arms. She looked happy. She looked truly happy.

“But you don’t have to worry. I was already saved from the moment you said that to me.”


#591 Goddess Nike

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 08:42 PM

She broke, didn't she.


That's putting it lightly :lol:
 

I will answer your's and Gamria's when I proceed on Salmon mode a little more...this is hard
c476dc1a01.jpg
WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ME TO ANSWER


Yeah I think Angie gave me the most difficulty in picking the best option on dates since she's so unorthodox. Most of the others were a lot easier to guess though I save scummed with a lot of characters anyway since I wanted to see what their different reactions would be, especially when it comes to the harmonious heart events.

Have you done the talent development plan yet? I'm enjoying it the more I play because it gives us a lot of interactions that we should've gotten in the Despair arc but mainly because there's overlap between different character's events which forms it's own continuity when you've played through enough of them...it's actually a little interesting to see how they all connect.      
 

Because she said she didn't want to kill people?


This is an overly simplistic response that doesn't even answer the question and deliberately ignores all context provided in the paragraph after the part you quoted. Obviously Maki doesn't want to kill anyone, none of them want to kill anyone, that was the reason the the time limit motive came into fruition in the first place. Once the time limit is in place there is no scenario where no one dies, either one person does or all 16 of them do and the former is objectively the better outcome.
Now this applies equally to all of the students so it definitely isn't Maki's responsibility to commit a murder but everything about her character suggests that she would given the circumstances regardless if she wanted to. Maki also didn't want to join the Holy Salvation Society (and wasn't even their first choice), she didn't want to kill her friend from school, and she didn't want to kill the countless numbers of innocent people yet she still did all of those things because she felt the circumstances forced her hand.

Nobody thinks that Maki enjoys the act of killing itself, obviously she isn't a gleeful murderer like Genocider nor someone like Mukuro who joined Fenir of her own volition but yet she still kills just as often. She's not established as someone who kills based on her emotions or on whether she wants to but as a strictly pragmatic killer who will murder anyone, even good people or people she likes, if she feels compelled to. Now in her assassin life the amount of money the Holy Salvation Society donates to the orphange is proportionate to how much she kills and so she kills a lot to provide as much financial support as possible.

Her reason for killing is certainly understandable but it isn't as if there are no possible alternatives however in the situation in chapter one there are literally no alternatives to someone dying so for a pragmatic killer like her the circumstances are even more compelling than of those in the past. This is the first circumstance where her killing someone would actually save the lives of more than a dozen people as opposed to turning a five story building into a four story building (which undoubtely killed dozens of people) for money. You're seriously putting forth "she didn't want to" as an answer when there's enough dead people that she also didn't want to kill to fill a graveyard and this would've been her most sympathetic murder.

Also are you forgetting that she clearly wanted to kill Kokichi multiple times (not even counting the time she actually attempted to in chapter five along with everyone else) and even lamented that the rules of the killing game made it harder for her to commit a murder when she wanted to. After Tsumugi was revealed as the mastermind her first instinct was to kill her right away, literally saying "let's just kill her and get it over with"and she had to be talked down from it multiple times. Also her response to the student council conflict was to suggest killing one of them. Keep in mind all this is after her character development so suggesting that she was strongly opposed to killing even back in chapter one doesn't ring true at all. I think you're confusing her dissatisfaction with her assassin life with a complete unwillingness to kill.

Now Maki's not a malicious enough person to kill someone purely out of a selfish desire to escape, which is why no one would question why her actions in chapters 2-4, but the combination of the first blood perk and time limit motive makes the situation in chapter one the most justifiable reason to commit a murder in the entire Danganronpa franchise so it is curious more people didn't give it more serious consideration. I think chapter one in V3 along with the funhouse from DR2 are the two motives where even the average person would strongly consider it simply because of how unreasonable the alternative is.
 

She passed herself off as a child caretaker, because she wanted to be normal and not an assassin.


Not at all, even in her final free time event she has no delusions of being a normal girl and outright tells Shuichi that he can't take her out of the assassin life but rather if he wants to help her to reduce the number of incidents where assassination is required so she has to kill less often. Keep in mind that you can't even access her free time until partway through chapter three after she starts to form a bond with Kaito and Shuichi so suggesting that she had dreams of leading normal life as far back as chapter one makes no sense.

She passed herself off as a caretaker because introducing yourself as an Ultimate Assassin in unfamiliar circumstances like those in the prologue immediately marks you as someone untrustworthy and she knew people would view her as someone suspicious, if not outright attack her and that only becomes much more prominent once the killing game actually began. Not to mention the basic fact the even in normal circumstances introducing yourself as an assassin is counterintuitive since it makes it hard to actually do your job as an assassin if people know you are one so I doubt she would ever introduced herself as that even outside the academy.
 

I've heard a theory that this is why the prologue exists. So that those fake personas of the ultimates were given and that so long as Tsumugi was cosplaying as them in school uniforms she could pretend to be them and make the videos. Add to this that the background in Tsumugi's ultimate lab is the same as in the casting videos and the videos are in those uniforms and not their ultimate attire and it starts to come together.


That theory makes no sense at all to me and if it even had a chance it would be the other way around. The V3 characters are real people in their universe both before and after their exposure to the flashback light, the only difference with the latter is that they were given fake talents and backstories to make them more interesting. That doesn't change the fact they are from the real world and that Tsumugi couldn't cosplay as them either as Ultimates or regular students. I'm not sure why anyone would think she did since the auditon videos lack the exotic eye designs that Tsumugi gets when she cosplays as someone.

Unless you're playing a different version than me the audition videos didn't show any background at all, the most you can see is a hardwood floor which is different than the concrete floor of Tsumugi's research lab, that looks closer to Kirumi's research lab if anything, though I personally don't believe the auditions took place at the academy in the first place. The outfits make sense because the auditions likely took place a few weeks or more likely a few months before prologue so them being in their school uniforms instead of their Ultimate attire is just basic chronological order.

Of course I won't dimiss the possbility that they could be faked but if they are I think it would be more along the lines of what Gamria was talking about with the use of some advanced technology rather than simple cosplay. Personally I think they're true because the auditions frankly aren't that important in the grand scheme of things, out of all the reveals in chapter six they're by far the least relevant ( I didn't even remember them until I unlocked them in my event gallery post game). Whether the students auditioned or were chosen by some random lottery doesn't really change much so why would they go so far out of their way to lie about something so innocuous. Plus if they were trying to make them look bad via fake videos they could've done much much worse than that. I feel even Kaede's more pessimistic (nihilistic) outlook in her video where she says she has zero faith in humanity seems to match what we see of her in the prologue when she says the situation reminded her of how rotten the world was.

There's also the fact that chapter six was never supposed to happen from Team Danganronpa's point of view. It's only because Keebo turned into mega man after his antenna fell off and started blowing up the academy that they able to access certain areas such as the library and both Kokichi's and Rantaro's labs which lead to the clues that form the bulk of chapter six's trial. Unlike Junko in the last chapter of her games, Tsumugi never wanted any of that to be discovered, instead the killing was just supposed to continue until the blackend won or there were only two students left. If those reveals were never supposed to be known then why have a fake video in regards to them.
 

This is of course ignoring the extremely likely possibility that the cospox was faked itself, seeing as it's a hilariously suspicious and convenient way for Tsumugi to get out of suspicion.

There's really nothing to suggests that the cospox is fake, let alone enough to call it extremely likely. On top of that there's at least some reason to think that it is real because her inability to cosplay as real people juxtaposed with the fact that she was cosplaying as Junko and other characters from DR1 and DR2 is the what leads to the reveal that the Hope's Peak saga as we know it is a mere work of fiction in the V3 universe.

Also how was cospox supposed to get her out of suspicion of anything, there was never a point in the game where there was credible evidence that Tsumugi could've been a murderer or the mastermind by using a disguise; even when the possibility was brought up in the first trial in didn't make sense in conjunction with the other evidence. The actual reason she was able to get away with chapter one was because nobody thought to consider that their could be more than one secret passageway, it had nothing to do with disguises.

The fact of the matter is that she was the mastermind and she did kill Rantaro and never once did she need to disguise herself to accomplish anything proving that her ability or inability to disguise herself as real people is completely inconsequential to anything that she did in the game. The cospox is nothing more than really early and clever foreshadowing and since it serves as the catalyst that reveals the biggest plot point in the game I think it makes more sense that it's true.
 

Chapter 1


I agree with pretty much all of this except that while I really like the idea in theory (for the same reasons you stated) I wasn't really a fan of actually playing the mass panic debate itself (it ended up being my least favorite trial mechanic) and also while I love her proactiveness I'm not sure Kaede's plan was not well thought out at all.


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#592 Insane Soul

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 09:23 PM

While we are on the topic of Chapter 6.

 

Can we discuss how the hell Kokichi figured out Rantaro's clue on just chapter 2? Granted, Kokichi was investigating him, but there was no way to find out about that that early on the game, given how the third floor was blocked by then (and it was on the 5th floor). Nothing on Rantaro's room suggested that, not even his unique monopad (which was taken by Tsumugi anyway).

 

Yes it was a okay 'twist', but if there is no backup to that, it just comes as an asspull.

 

A theory is that the one that wrote the words wasn't Kokichi in fact, but Team Danganronpa...but that doesn't make sense if Rantaro's room was supposed to be permanently locked.


 

 


Yeah I think Angie gave me the most difficulty in picking the best option on dates since she's so unorthodox. Most of the others were a lot easier to guess though I save scummed with a lot of characters anyway since I wanted to see what their different reactions would be, especially when it comes to the harmonious heart events.

Have you done the talent development plan yet? I'm enjoying it the more I play because it gives us a lot of interactions that we should've gotten in the Despair arc but mainly because there's overlap between different character's events which forms it's own continuity when you've played through enough of them...it's actually a little interesting to see how they all connect.      
 

Speaking of which, have you triggered the obvious wrong/perverted ones? Tenko just slays me of laughter.

And yeah, ANgie is so unorthodox...one time I suggested to Run on the gym (I expected her to be the sporty girl!!!) just to disappoint Atua terribly...other times she literally offers to "Remove Shuichis tireness with her quirks!" on the gym  :psyduck:

 

Not yet I am afraid, been busy, But I plan to do it eventually.


Edited by Insane Soul, 05 November 2017 - 09:26 PM.

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#593 Spamamdorf

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 09:32 PM

You seem to be forgetting the possibility that there is a bluff to be called. And that Maki went with Kaito and the rest to have a last ditch "Let's go fight Monokuma instead of killing each other" meeting in chapter 1. There are other options and so she was considering them.

 

Saying she wants to be/be treated like a normal girl does not mean she has to think of herself as one, just that when possible she's going to try to act like one. Until her guise was broken at least.

 


The V3 characters are real people in their universe both before and after their exposure to the flashback light, the only difference with the latter is that they were given fake talents and backstories to make them more interesting

You're making the assumption that the prologue is real. When it's terribly far removed from everything else that happens in the game and the characters all act slightly off from their usual selves. It's rather likely they are actors and the scene is made to give Tsumugi that outlet if she needs it as well as to fake the audition videos.

 


the most you can see is a hardwood floor which is different than the concrete floor of Tsumugi's research lab,

As you may recall Tsumugi's lab had a big conveyor belt in the back that swapped out scenes for photo shoots, one of those looked like that is what I'm pointing out.

 


The outfits make sense because the auditions likely took place a few weeks or more likely a few months before prologue so them being in their school uniforms instead of their Ultimate attire is just basic chronological order.

Yes that's the impression it is supposed to give everyone.

 


why would they go so far out of their way to lie about something so innocuous

So that they can further increase the students despair about the situation, this was one of the nails in the coffin driven into them to make them all think of themselves as fake.

 


There's also the fact that chapter six was never supposed to happen from Team Danganronpa's point of view.

Wrong. You can see that up until the point Shuichi and the rest choose not to make a decision everything is going according to script. Tsumugi is pushing all of them into despair so they'll choose hope "just like every other time" Rantaro is specifically from exactly the same situation as caused this. He was the sacrifice last game and needed to/got to redo this one as a result. It's clear that they wanted them to confront the mastermind.

 


There's really nothing to suggests that the cospox is fake, let alone enough to call it extremely likely.

The issue is how extremely convenient it is and easy it would be to fake. She walked into a room with exactly one other person and got a rash when she put on some clothes. How is this evidence she can't disguise herself as others? Maybe she's just allergic to people's dandruff or to eggs and she threw some powder on herself. This is easy to do, but as I said since it's never brought up I doubt it's the case, it's simply that at the time I was surprised no one ever mentioned it.

 


Also how was cospox supposed to get her out of suspicion of anything, there was never a point in the game where there was credible evidence that Tsumugi could've been a murderer or the mastermind by using a disguise

That's the point however, you eliminated it as a possibility right away so you never once thought of Tsumugi as suspicious.


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“I promised, remember? I said I would save you even if it meant fighting the entire world.” “Yes…you did.”

Othinus narrowed her eye as the boy held her in his arms. She looked happy. She looked truly happy.

“But you don’t have to worry. I was already saved from the moment you said that to me.”


#594 Goddess Nike

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 01:13 AM

You seem to be forgetting the possibility that there is a bluff to be called.


Well obviously I'm sure they all hoped that it would be that at first but the thing is it's not a poker game; tryng to call someone's bluff in a life and death scenario is stupid because if you're wrong then you die. I think all of the students were taking it seriously, Kaede's probably one of the more optimistic ones and we see what she resorted to. Maki comes from a world where killing is normal so I doubt she'd resort to pure wishful thinking to hope that it's all a bluff...Unless you're referring to something else.
 

And that Maki went with Kaito and the rest to have a last ditch "Let's go fight Monokuma instead of killing each other" meeting in chapter 1. There are other options and so she was considering them.


This was pointed out in the post you originally responded to, so I didn't feel the need to elaborate again. The thing is this is technically an alternative to literally doing nothing but it can't truly be called another option, fighting a Monokuma army plus the Exisals is pure suicide and would still result in all of the students dying if Rantaro wasn't killed. The fact she went to the basement seems to suggest that she didn't have any intention of waiting to die but no matter how you look at it there was only one real option where that was possible and it happens to be something she specializes in. Everything after that leads right back into what I said in my last post so you haven't really added anything in that regard.
 

You're making the assumption that the prologue is real.


I am but I think it's a fairly safe assumption to be honest or at least I haven't seen any compelling reason to suggest otherwise. Your assertion by comparison seems a lot more untenable.
 

It's rather likely they are actors


What???...Is this even suggested anywhere in the game?
 

 

 

As you may recall Tsumugi's lab had a big conveyor belt in the back that swapped out scenes for photo shoots, one of those looked like that is what I'm pointing out.


I really don't think it looks like that at all and it's definitely not obvious enough to call a sure thing. Even if it were given that she's the mastermind and an employee of TD there's a more simple and logical reason why the auditions would take place there since she would likely be the one to host the auditions in the first place.
 

Yes that's the impression it is supposed to give everyone.


It is possible it's supposed to give off that impression because that's the way it happened.
 

So that they can further increase the students despair about the situation,


I guess we just see it's impact fundamentally differently, I think that if you took that part out of the trial everything would still proceed exactly the same way minus a little extra dialogue.
 

Wrong. You can see that up until the point Shuichi and the rest choose not to make a decision everything is going according to script. Tsumugi is pushing all of them into despair so they'll choose hope "just like every other time" Rantaro is specifically from exactly the same situation as caused this. He was the sacrifice last game and needed to/got to redo this one as a result. It's clear that they wanted them to confront the mastermind.


You're confusing two different things, the killing game went off the rails ever since Kokichi hijacked it by claiming to be the mastermind. The blind trial in chapter five, Kaito's failed execution, Keebo's antenna coming off, the academy almost being destroyed and exposing multiple hidden areas, none of that was planned by Team Danganronpa. Tsumugi outright admitted during the trial that there were multiple times when things weren't going quite right and sighted Keebo's rampage in particular as a major problem for them.
What you're referring to is the true nature of the final "punishment", Rantaro tried to warn his future self about this rule but that was the one thing they wouldn't let him reveal. I don't see anything to suggest that Danganronpa 52 ended going the same route as V3, in fact I would find it almost inexplicable because of how chaotic it was and how many people were still left.
This is just my speculation but more than likely with only three people alive they were left with a situation where there are too many people to graduate to the outside world (maximum of two) and yet too few people to continue the game (if A, B, C are all that's left and if B kills C then A would know by default plus their votes cancel out) so you would then have a special trial to see which two get to graduate and who gets "punished" and most likely Rantaro was the odd man out and was forced to sacrifice himself so the other two could leave. None of that suggests that DR52 went through the same craziness that V3 went, it would just be the natural result once there's not enough to reasonably continue the game yet still too many to graduate.
 

This is easy to do, but as I said since it's never brought up I doubt it's the case, it's simply that at the time I was surprised no one ever mentioned it.


I don't think it would be impossible to fake at all especially in this universe but I do think it would be completely pointless to fake. If anyone would've called bullshit on that I think it would be Kokichi but I think it was never mentioned again because it was never relevant until chapter six so there was no context where it made sense to bring it up in universe.
 

That's the point however, you eliminated it as a possibility right away so you never once thought of Tsumugi as suspicious.


If you're referring to me specifically then that's false, I don't even know why you'd think that in the first place. I was strictly talking about the plot and characters actions in universe.


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