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Danganronpa 3 The End of Kibougamine Gakuen - Mirai-hen/ Zetsubou-Hen


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#61 Blue22

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 03:12 PM



#62 Insane Soul

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 02:27 AM

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#63 gamria

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 06:45 AM

 

 

@gamria

 

WE NEED YOU RIGHT NOW.

 

Spoiler Keeping it for Gamria
 

@Insane Soul

 

The reason I haven't said anything was because (1) I waited for my bandwidth to reset for the next month, or else risk burning out more additional data costs, and (2) I've had a busy week, so I've only just caught up to Future and Despair.

 

I'll start talking once I've replied to other things.

 

@Insane Soul

 

I just got around to watching that guy's videos. DAMN he is annoying. All his attempts at humor have made me cringe. And yet....I can't stop watching. I'm already past the first trial. Just something about seeing people's reactions to this game...their despair fills me with hope

@Blue22 I've actually been following NicoB. While I do agree that his humour can be hit-or-miss, and his voice acting wouldn't work at times, I like that he's genuinely invested in the games he plays.

There are a lot of other Let's Players out there who just play the most popular games for more views, but Nico cares more about games where he'll have fun. He wants to make sure his viewers have fun too, and better yet, he's a thinking, sharp-eyed gamer. (Trust me, you'll be surprised by how rare they are)

He looks out and observes everything, partakes deductions of puzzles and mysteries, and he doesn't just mash attack in action RPGs and experiments with other available mechanics.

 

I don't recall them saying that killing the attacker stops the game actually. All I recall is Monokuma saying that if no one dies during one of the rounds then they're good to go, which seems too easy. Class President's angle was that if he killed the traitor who started the game then the game might end since no one would be running it. My problem with that though isn't that he suspects Makoto, but that he figures even if it isn't Makoto that popular vote is perfectly reasonable and the way they should go and kill everyone.

 

I'd say that his bracelet's secret is "Make terrible decisions" but that can't be it since Boxer treats it like just another day.

That's correct, the winning condition is "no killing for one round". So theoretically, if somehow someone besides the traitor wakes up and kills someone else anyway, the game goes on.


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#64 gamria

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 07:15 AM

Despair #1:

 

OK, Chisa is amazing. She's exactly the person that's needed to keep a group of rowdy SHSL students in line. I mean, she put the Yakuza in his place with such ease.

We have heard that the students are given a lot of free reign so long as they remain a source of study, but to see it in practice for the first time, now that's just crazy. No wonder Hope's Peak needed investment badly.

 

Yeah, this episode has been a huge love letter to the SDR2 fans. So many callbacks.

While their banter and interaction will be reminiscent of those from the second game, seeing them in the past without a killing game going on puts a slight spin on them.

 

I had been so caught up with the idea of an actual real Nanami Chiaki that I realised something I should've also thought about: what's her actual background then?

Why the obsession with games? What's her actual family life like? What's her actual family like?

 

And is it just me, or does real Nanami lack the "pauses" in her speech?

 

Also, I was already curious why she never made mention of her "mother", but now I'm even more curious about Alter Ego Nanami. Compared to Alter Ego Fujisaki, why is she so "blank" about her "parent"?


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#65 gamria

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 07:58 AM

Future #1:

 

I know I've said this a lot, but the bracelets borrowed a lot from Spike Chunsoft's sister series, Zero Escape, in particular the version from the 3rd game, Zero Time Dilemma

http://zeroescape.wi...ro_Time_Dilemma

 

The Forbidden Action aspect though, now that's interesting.

 

---

 

I had a feeling that something will happen to one of the DR1 cast at some point, but I just didn't think it'll happen this soon.

What an uneasy aftertaste that's left me with. I'm going to miss you Asahina.

 

Shoutouts to The Great Gozu. I'm sorry, I really like you, but I can't help but say I'm going to miss you

 

---

 

I was feeling that surely, at least one of the Branch Heads of the Future Foundation has to be tech-savvy, and I placed my bet on Gekkougahara. I'm so glad I did, she's just living up to my expectations, and more.

So she IS one of the main developers of the New World Program, and actively participated in the project too. She had to have known about Naegi's journey to Jabberwock Island then.

 

I didn't realise she's in a wheelchair. I know that it's handy for holding all those equipment, but could it be that she really can't walk? Disabled?

Interesting that she's using an Usami avatar to do the talking for her too. 

 

@Insane Soul Want me to explain my crack reasons for suggesting Gekkougahara = Nanami later?

 

---

 

Right, onto the game. 2 things most on my mind right now:

  1. Monokuma said that the events are recorded and broadcasted to the rest of the world, but does that really mean cameras are absolutely everywhere? More importantly, are the camera feeds still active during each killing round? Actually following the movements of the killer, bit by bit?
  2. Is it compulsory for the traitor to perform a kill each round? If it's not an obligatory part of the rules, and provided it's not a Forbidden Action, is s/he allowed to not kill?

It's just, Asahina's death has 2 direct effects on Naegi:

  • Closed room murder, putting more suspicion on Naegi. But not just this, 
  • Without Asahina, Naegi has lost his reliable loophole for his Forbidden Action, making it harder to get away.

The killing this time is so targeted towards Naegi, really wanting to put him at a disadvantage.

I suspect I know what this killing game is really about: goad the Future Foundation into killing Naegi, which will then implode soon afterwards.

 
If what I believe about the aforementioned 2 things above are correct, then we have some serious implications:
  1. If the broadcast does follow each killing, then there's a very good chance the viewers will already know who the traitor is. But the Future Foundation doesn't, and will look particular dumb in their eyes as they cast their suspicion on each other.
    Not to mention, the broadcast is bound to be bias to paint them as bad as possible, and without noting their Forbidden Actions too.
  2. If the traitor doesn't have to kill each round, then think about it - just because there's no killing and the game ends, doesn't mean the traitor has died.
    So say... someone was killed in between the rounds. If the traitor decides to stop killing, then it'll look like the victim was the traitor and has been stopped, right?

In other words, if the Future Foundation kills Naegi and traitor then stops killing, that's one way to pin all the blame on him, celebrating the defeat of "despair".

But the majority of the viewers (i) know who the real traitor was, and (ii) still worship Naegi Makoto as the SHSL Hope, the hero who defeated Junko Enoshima. And they will be disgusted with the Future Foundation for killing their hero.

Which leads to mass revolt against the Foundation. A decline in hope, a resurgence of despair.

 

And for that, the traitor will keep killing those who support Naegi and worsen his standing.


Edited by gamria, 20 July 2016 - 07:59 AM.

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#66 Insane Soul

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 11:51 AM

There has been an interesting speculation regarding the 'traitor', it goes like this:

Nobody is the traitor, rather Kirigiri and Naegi are acting against their own will by AI Junkos influence, since they were the ones that infiltrated the Neo World Program, losing their memories of being the attacker every rotation.

Edited by Insane Soul, 20 July 2016 - 12:20 PM.


#67 Blue22

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 12:21 PM

Spoiler


Edited by Blue22, 20 July 2016 - 12:38 PM.


#68 Insane Soul

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 12:24 PM

I believe it is Makoto, this supports the fact Chisa's corpse was seen crying, the Super High School Hope (although against his will) murdered her.

#69 Insane Soul

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 01:40 PM

Okay, but can we talk for a sec, just how great this guy is!?

 

Spoiler

 

I need a gif of this glorious part.


Edited by Insane Soul, 20 July 2016 - 01:41 PM.


#70 gamria

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 05:04 PM

There has been an interesting speculation regarding the 'traitor', it goes like this:

Nobody is the traitor, rather Kirigiri and Naegi are acting against their own will by AI Junkos influence, since they were the ones that infiltrated the Neo World Program, losing their memories of being the attacker every rotation.

A part of me did ponder on the prospects of some form of mind control on somebody, I couldn't think of the appropriate mechanism.

Losing memories every rotation... that sounds even more like Zero Time Dilemma.

 

While that's an interesting prospect, 2 matters:

  1. Where would Naegi have gotten the knife from?
  2. With the mid-scale attack from the outside, there has to be at least coordination from the outside, and I don't see how brainwashed teammates can conceal themselves even from such contact

And also, if the SHSL Hope is indeed brainwashed, and therefore his persecution becomes justified, then that doesn't induce as much despair as what I had suggested.

As in, Despair vs Hope isn't as depressing as Hope vs Hope. Especially not for the viewing audience.

 

---

 

By the way, some thoughts over night.

While I want to rally behind Gekkougahara, 2 things about her in Episode 1 disturbs me: wheelchair, and being tech-savvy

 

Darn you Spike Chunsoft, making me waver between my suspicion of her being either Nanami or Monaka. I mean, there has to be some gimmick behind her undisclosed Seiyuu.


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#71 Insane Soul

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 05:31 PM

A part of me did ponder on the prospects of some form of mind control on somebody, I couldn't think of the appropriate mechanism.

Losing memories every rotation... that sounds even more like Zero Time Dilemma.

 

While that's an interesting prospect, 2 matters:

  1. Where would Naegi have gotten the knife from?
  2. With the mid-scale attack from the outside, there has to be at least coordination from the outside, and I don't see how brainwashed teammates can conceal themselves even from such contact

And also, if the SHSL Hope is indeed brainwashed, and therefore his persecution becomes justified, then that doesn't induce as much despair as what I had suggested.

As in, Despair vs Hope isn't as depressing as Hope vs Hope. Especially not for the viewing audience.

 

Remember before the murder games started, the Mirai Blacksmith threw a pointy object at Asahina (I don't recall if it was the same knife), and in this episode, as someone from TUMBLR pointed out, Kirigiri checked the exact spot where the knife perfored the wall/door, the only missing thing was: The Weapon itself.

 

Public would be unaware of these acts to begin with, SHSL Hope would become the successor of Junko Enoshima (as how they somewhat wanted with Komaru), this itself would be impactful, not to mention it is already yielding results at everyone suspecting each other.

 

While on the subject

 

I am also having my doubts about the Therapist, they are really trying to bait the viewers who know the hellspawn of Monaca, but this doesn't make sense, because Monomi was the one that...

 

Fuck:

 

1- Monomi was the one that threw Junko in Despair by killing her, this could be interpreted not only as Monaca granting her 'goddess' what she wanted, but a symbolic way of saying 'I am succeeding you'

2- Wasn't Monaca's SHSL talent similar to the concept idea of Monomi?


Edited by Insane Soul, 20 July 2016 - 05:36 PM.


#72 gamria

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 06:07 PM

Oh yeah, the public knows nothing about the New World Program, darn it

 

1- Monomi was the one that threw Junko in Despair by killing her, this could be interpreted not only as Monaca granting her 'goddess' what she wanted, but a symbolic way of saying 'I am succeeding you'
2- Wasn't Monaca's SHSL talent similar to the concept idea of Monomi?

 

But Monaca also has no way of knowing about what went on in the Program, it's a closed network. Unless she somehow journeyed to Jabberwock Island herself.

 

Monaca may've been called the Super Elementary School Level Homeroom, but it isn't quite what Usami was.

She's essentially a prodigy with really good moodmaking skills, setting the atmosphere and even brainwashing those around her.

What's more, she was the head of the Robotics Division of Towa Industries, so she has a lot of technological knowledge.

 

Now, unless the DR-verse has gotten absurd to the point it has human aging technology, I still don't think Monaca herself is Gekkougahara. But with the way she works, what if the Gekkougahara we're seeing is an android of some sorts, controlled remotely by Monaca?

 

---

 

It's just, outside of a combined efforts from the SHSL Despairs, this operation reeks of Monaca's involvement

  • Bracelets, like those from the Demon Hunting game, with a similar design too
  • A significant technology siege, with the fighter jets, signal jamming, even Monokuma live-hacking Usami. I believe Monaca can amass that level of hard power
  • With the viewers likely knowing who the culprit is but the participants not knowing, the broadcast this time will incite outrage atop of despair, just like with Ultra Despair Girls' endgame
  • At this point, the Branch Heads are divided between those who believe in Naegi and those who don't. The way this rift is formed is similar to Monaca's way of creating a divide between Towa City's adults and children
  • She also had brainwashing technology with the Monokuma helmets on the kids

...hey, what if the mind control mechanism isn't a mental AI infection, but Monaca popping in and out, and putting a refined helmet of hers on Naegi to do the killing for her?

And there has to be a broadcast control located somewhere


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#73 Insane Soul

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 06:18 PM

You are forgetting one of the Remnants of Despair spent a lot of time tutoring her to be the new Junko, It wouldn't be far stretched if she made it in Jabberwock island, or worse, directly involved with the neo world program.



#74 Insane Soul

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 10:37 PM

This fucking episode

 

100/10

 

@gamria

 

Spoiler

Edited by Insane Soul, 21 July 2016 - 10:51 PM.

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#75 gamria

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 07:36 AM

@Insane Soul

My. Sentiments. Exactly.

Will Gekkougahara be our hope, or our despair?

 

---

 

I know I only mentioned this in our private chat, but I was right in calling that Despair will work to give us clues to Future, especially with regards to the Branch Heads of Future Foundation.

We're already seeing plenty of Housekeeper, Student Council President and the Scout, but we've now got a mention of the Pharmacist (she's in the 76th Class, so one year older than the SDR2 cast) and even an appearance from the former Principal.

 

Intriguing ... and that Chisa (Housekeeper) is partly a spy for Munakata (President).

I can see why Tengan (former Principal) is impressed with Naegi, according to Gozu. Naegi is exactly his ideal, hope through "being human".

In contrast, perhaps Munakata is uneasy with Naegi, because he's seen the results of the artificial SHSL Hope, so he's similarly weary with the natural SHSL Hope.

 

And how did I not think of this before? I've already read beforehand that Kizakura was a Scout for Hope's Peak. How did I not realise that he was the one who personally recruited all of the 78th Class as well (except for the Lucky Students?) All of the DR1 cast, including Junko Enoshima and Mukuro Ikusaba.

I bet he must be feeling super guilty for bringing those two into the school, and infecting some many students.

 

---

 

(More to write, including my crack theory of Gekkougahara = Nanami)


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#76 gamria

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 08:45 AM

Now then, before I get on with my chief crack theory, I want to first explain inconsistencies I'm feeling with the New World Program.

 

Questioning the New World Program

With SDR2, the feeling I got with the Program is that:

  1. It was designed with no targets in mind, intended and changeable to suit anyone and everyone in despair
  2. Its base, Jabberwock Island, was manned
  3. The Remnants were placed into the Program with permission from the Foundation, albeit begrudgingly, after Naegi's defense.
  4. Monokuma's broadcast was sent to the wider Foundation

Yet, with the Future Side, these don't appear to be the case:

2. Given that no one knew Naegi took the Remnants to the Island, it would seem that the Island wasn't manned

3. Based on the stance of several of the Branch Heads, not only were they not in a second-chance mood, but they also didn't consent to the Program

4. It would seem when Monokuma said "broadcast to the Future Foundation", he only meant Naegi and co.

 

And most of all:

1. If no one special staff was on the Island to operate the Program, with Naegi and co. somewhat haphazardly putting the Remnants into the Program, why did the events of the Program seem suspiciously specific towards the Remnants and their past selves?

 

I refuse to think Naegi and co. knew all the right buttons to press, all the right configurations to set, and that the Program just automatically knew what to do, just for them.

 

---

 

The Role of the Therapist

From SDR2, we knew that the Program was created from the research of the SHSL Programmer, the Neurologist and the Therapist.

The Programmer's (Fujisaki's) obviously made the Program function, and the Neurologist's (Matsuda's) obviously helped to simulate the experience back and forth between the real and virtual worlds.

Since we didn't know anything about the Therapist, we could only surmise that their research allowed for a mental experience that returns someone from despair to hope.

 

Looking back, taking Monokuma's analogy of the Program to that of a "game", if the Programming and Neurology are what made the game run and operate, then the Therapy is the logic of the game.

As in, the story, characters, setting, themes, etc. The Therapist would've been in charge of the game design that provided a scenario for restoring hope.

 

And someone whose good at gaming is bound to know what makes a good game...

 

(more to come)


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#77 gamria

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 10:10 AM

Nanami Chiaki, SHSL Gamer -> Therapist?

Back in our conversation, I suggested that perhaps Gekkougahara created the role of Nanami, as a self-insert to aid the therapy of the Remnants. I now think it's even possible that she herself is Nanami.

 

As I said before, the Program is suspiciously specific towards the Remnants. The Hope's Peak setting, the facilities for their talents (especially the 3rd Island), even Hinata forgetting that he was a Reserve Course student.

One would have to know all the Remnants' past selves in depth in order to make such a Program. If the Therapist is Nanami, then she would of course have that knowledge. And given that we now learnt she served as a unifying force and was their class representative, even more reason to believe Nanami herself at least contributed to the Program (but never credited...)

 

---

 

But I have other reasons. First, for someone with the title of "Therapist", she's curiously tech-savvy.

Second, how awesome would this idea be: Nanami decided to transcend the limits of her SHSL talent, in order to acquire the strength necessary to save her friends?

 

That would break the concept that one's talent will tie down that individual. Also, as with Naegi's case, it's possible to "evolve" beyond ones' talent.

 

---

 

P. S. Somehow, I missed the fact that as the Class Representative for the 77th Class, she's a representative towards the Student Council as well.

And that's where the Tragedy of Hope's Peak Academy happened...


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#78 Blue22

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 10:47 AM

So....I just started the new episode and they've already made me jaw drop!

Spoiler


 

Okay. Actually finished the episode this time:

 

Spoiler

Edited by Blue22, 22 July 2016 - 10:51 AM.


#79 Insane Soul

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 11:50 AM

At this point, I had already lost my shit

 

tumblr_oaosjbSg2J1ra744uo6_400.gif


 

At this point, I had already lost my shit

 

http://67.media.tumblr.com/d6b81bf80f251...

 

 

@gamria

 

Matsuda's research also contributed with the whole memory loss thing with the Neo World Program, I would say the Therapist's influence is them perceiving the events as real.

 

>specially the 3rd island

 

Mind elaborating on that?


Edited by Insane Soul, 22 July 2016 - 11:40 AM.


#80 Blue22

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 12:26 PM

At this point, I had already lost my shit

 

http://67.media.tumblr.com/d6b81bf80f251...

 

That whole scene was magical XD (though they might have taken a bit far when Teruteru was about to rape Hyoko. I hate her guts but even she doesn't deserve that O___O)

 

I am a bit disappointed that they didn't take advantage of...whatever that was, to do something with Fuyuhiko and Peko. I was waiting for it too :P






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