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[Character] Roronoa Zoro (Part 30)


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#221 Strobacaxi

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 12:05 PM


about Zoro vs Cracker
 
wouldn't it go in a similar way to Zoro vs Mr 1 ?
where the main problem of Zoro is managing to have his hits pierce the protective layer of the enemy?
Cracker was very strong in the defence as biscuit soldier

We have no idea. We don't know how Zoro's haki stacks up to Cracker's. We don't know how much his swords would facilitate breaking the armors in ways Luffy's punches couldn't. We also have no idea if the breath of all things can help him cut through CoA (Which was the main problem for breaking the biscuit)


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#222 captain kidd

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 03:25 PM

@captain kidd I know that my scenario might be a stretch but to say he wouldn't get past the 6 swords soldier is just bananas.
You keep forgetting that zoro is like erza from FT.


I don't think it is that crazy. Luffy was only able to get past the initial soldier due to G4

The initial armor has crackers extremely formadible haki which his soldiers lacks. We don't know if zoro could get past his haki and once again that bisket knight was dominating luffy in hand to hand.

Go back and reread it wasn't really close until luffy went G4

Don't get me wrong I believe zoro would be much better at fighting the army of cracker soldiers without haki.

But the initial armor, that luffy couldn't even put match in haki. I see no indication zoro's haki would succeed where luffy's failed.
 

We have no idea. We don't know how Zoro's haki stacks up to Cracker's. We don't know how much his swords would facilitate breaking the armors in ways Luffy's punches couldn't. We also have no idea if the breath of all things can help him cut through CoA (Which was the main problem for breaking the biscuit)



You know ever since zoro proved the "breath of all things" doesn't help detect material..... his piss poor pornformance against kuma pre TS. I have figured that tech is a non factor.
 
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#223 TrolonoaZoro

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 09:51 PM

And I am saying zoro didn't beat kaku easily. He was getting beaten up the entire time.

I am not trying to be a dick go back and read it zoro was getting nose gunned whipped slashed up pushed back out smarted, the entire time, the only time zoro looked really good was when he overpowered kaku which did no damage and just scared kaku more then anything, he stopped kaku's charge once and finally his finishing move, aside from those three times the fight was kaku's

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Does that look like a scene from a fight you would consider an easy win.....

You want to talk about easy though, G2 easily overpowered lucci.
 

Without or without nami?

Because it took G4 for luffy to even be on par with crackers so what makes you think zoro has anything to compete with G4?

Well, yeah. It does. Easily doesn't imply that it wasn't a fight. And use moments in which Kaku's strength does the job, with his strongest limb, with the most powerful and strength based zoan. That the cp9 guys got. It's not exactly the optimal solution to prove a point. Considering our understanding of Dorikis and basic biology. 

 

Zoro still wasn't damaged to a point where it became a close fight though, wouldn't you say?

 

 

----

 

Zoro versus Cracker. We need to know how the clones react to a master swordsman. The very nature of the clones (cracers) indicate that they're hard because they absorbed damage. IE viscosity/elasticity. As oppose to the conventional hardness which is hard until you apply force that is beyond its breaking point. So how "rigid" it is. 

 

Somehow more condensed way of applying force sounds way better that Luffy's spread punches. 

 

Because of that, the main man Zoro probably would have an easier and not need water to get the job done. Which is awful for Cracker because Zoro would deck him. 


 

Because luffy's combat style has more range then zoro has ever used. Even when zoro invented his flying slash he used it to hit people right next to him. pica demonstrated zoro's close range nature.

That feel when you're zoro and only have Mountain level range. As oppose to country wide range. Unlike Luffy. (SARCASM)


Edited by TrolonoaZoro, 13 February 2017 - 09:38 PM.

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#224 captain kidd

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:52 AM

Well, yeah. It does. Easily doesn't imply that it wasn't a fight. And use moments in which Kaku's strength does the job, with his strongest limb, with the most powerful and strength based zoan. That the cp9 guys got. It's not exactly the optimal solution to prove a point. Considering our understanding of Dorikis and basic biology.

Zoro still wasn't damaged to a point where it became a close fight though, wouldn't you say?


----

Zoro versus Cracker. We need to know how the clones react to a master swordsman. The very nature of the clones (cracers) indicate that they're hard because they absorbed damage. IE viscosity/elasticity. As oppose to the conventional hardness which is hard until you apply force that is beyond its breaking point. So how "rigid" it is.

Somehow more condensed way of applying force sounds way better that Luffy's spread punches.

Because of that, the main man Zoro probably would have an easier and not need water to get the job done. Which is awful for Cracker because Zoro would deck him.
 

That feel when you're zoro and only have Mountain level range. As oppose to country wide range. Unlike Luffy. (SARCASM)

I see your point and I guess it is up for debate but when I read that fight many years ago and saw kaku getting in all that offense and saw zoro land 2 meaningful hits. The fight felt in my yet to be bias opinion that zoro was wining by the skin of his teeth.

As for crackers. Unless zoro is vastly better then luffy in hand to hand then luffy and his haki is much stronger then luffy's there is no reason Zoro would be capable of getting crackers out of his initial armor. I believe zoro would crush the clones much better then luffy did. And in much shorter time but zoro is not that much better (if at all) then luffy in haki and close range combat so how would zoro get crackers out of his armor.

Really? You really want to talk range? What happened when pica was walking away from zoro? What did zoro need to do? Oh right ask fodderto throw him. What happens when luffy launched DD clear accross the country? Oh right luffy flew over to him.
Zoro clearly stated he didn't have power at range with his flying slash. Where's luffy was able to shoot dd out of the sky with his strongest attack.

And think back, zoro's flying slashes have never had that much range.
 
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#225 Fulmine

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:05 PM

Zolo has amazing Haki? When is this? His level is pretty much unknown given there is no frame of reference. He cut Pica but we have no idea how good Pica's CoA is. He cut Pica's humongous giant rock body...well, it's rock, even EastBlue fighters can do as much LOL the impressive thing about that technique is its range and not CoA.


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#226 captain kidd

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:24 PM

Ya see that is my biggest arguement, luffy was only able to take crackers out of his armor due to his insanely powerful G4.

Zoro doesn't have anything that could take crackers out of his armor and that armor blitzed luffy.

Luffy's haki was nothing compared to cracker's armor and luffy's close range combat was nothing compared to cracker's armor.

If I were to be the biggest zoro lover in the world the most I could ever argue is zoro is a little better then luffy in close range and haki and even then that wouldn't be enough seeing how bad crackers trampled on luffy before luffy went G4
 
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#227 Chillman

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:36 PM

We haven't seen Zoro go all out though.

#228 captain kidd

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:45 PM

We haven't seen Zoro go all out though.


Yes, my arguement rests on the assumption that zoro shouldn't be better (or much better) then luffy.

That being said we have seen a lot of zoro's limitations. We have seen he is unable to put hodi down we have seen he can't send a flying slash too far, we have seen he is unable to cut birdcage.
 
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#229 TrolonoaZoro

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:02 PM

I see your point and I guess it is up for debate but when I read that fight many years ago and saw kaku getting in all that offense and saw zoro land 2 meaningful hits. The fight felt in my yet to be bias opinion that zoro was wining by the skin of his teeth.

As for crackers. Unless zoro is vastly better then luffy in hand to hand then luffy and his haki is much stronger then luffy's there is no reason Zoro would be capable of getting crackers out of his initial armor. I believe zoro would crush the clones much better then luffy did. And in much shorter time but zoro is not that much better (if at all) then luffy in haki and close range combat so how would zoro get crackers out of his armor.

Really? You really want to talk range? What happened when pica was walking away from zoro? What did zoro need to do? Oh right ask fodderto throw him. What happens when luffy launched DD clear accross the country? Oh right luffy flew over to him.
Zoro clearly stated he didn't have power at range with his flying slash. Where's luffy was able to shoot dd out of the sky with his strongest attack.

And think back, zoro's flying slashes have never had that much range.

But we know what the skin of his teeth is relative to other fight he has had. That's nowhere near close to Mr.1, he wasn't as hurt as he in east blue post mihawk or the insane amount of damage he can take by kumas bubble. Skin of his teeth??? How, based on his damage soak? It's a literal physical impossibility considering his precedent being set so high when it comes to being capable of continuing to perform. That Kaku was the one that needed to readjust his combat style to try and penetrate Zoro's fighting also takes away from that take. I just don't see it based on our objective knowledge of the zoro. 

 

I don't know if it's coa haki is linear. But Zoro has been the only one in which his hardening glows. But we can say objectively speaking that at least is pretty special. Considering this is Zoro, *a guy with the hype to be a top dog in the overall of one piece* and that he's coa specialist. We have a pretty good argument that not because of how Luffy perform, but Zoro's hardening relative to anybody is something to look out for. Ad that he uses sharp attacks, that are objectively be known to be better to penetrate haki defenses. (Hordy and his teeth) and we have a more than good argument to say that Zoro is better equipped for the job. And that doesn't have to be relative to Luffy. (That's like saying that Luffy should be just a little worse than Zoro in swordsmanship because he's luffy, or Zoro should be a top in the world puncher because he's always portrait up there with luffy)

 

Pica is mountain size. And range at the point where your objective is trying to completely cleave through a mountain and not merely hit him doesn't take away from the fact that you still have mountain range. (As in your attack can travel that distance but not keep the same amount of force as it would if you hit the target when it's next to you.)

 

Luffy having to teleport =/= he has better ATTACK range. Obviously. It means he's a more versatile fighter and can more easily perform his non country size range attacks in more places than Zoro. And shooting people out is not the range of your attack. It is merely an effect of it. Maybe im confused but i thought we where talking about their offenses and the aoe. And not attacks and anything distance related to them. I mean, at that point you could make the argument that Zoro could cut a space ship (enels) and it would fall to the earth or even better float in the universe to infinite distance so his range is galactic. 


Edited by TrolonoaZoro, 14 February 2017 - 02:03 PM.

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#230 captain kidd

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:40 PM

But we know what the skin of his teeth is relative to other fight he has had. That's nowhere near close to Mr.1, he wasn't as hurt as he in east blue post mihawk or the insane amount of damage he can take by kumas bubble. Skin of his teeth??? How, based on his damage soak? It's a literal physical impossibility considering his precedent being set so high when it comes to being capable of continuing to perform. That Kaku was the one that needed to readjust his combat style to try and penetrate Zoro's fighting also takes away from that take. I just don't see it based on our objective knowledge of the zoro.

I don't know if it's coa haki is linear. But Zoro has been the only one in which his hardening glows. But we can say objectively speaking that at least is pretty special. Considering this is Zoro, *a guy with the hype to be a top dog in the overall of one piece* and that he's coa specialist. We have a pretty good argument that not because of how Luffy perform, but Zoro's hardening relative to anybody is something to look out for. Ad that he uses sharp attacks, that are objectively be known to be better to penetrate haki defenses. (Hordy and his teeth) and we have a more than good argument to say that Zoro is better equipped for the job. And that doesn't have to be relative to Luffy. (That's like saying that Luffy should be just a little worse than Zoro in swordsmanship because he's luffy, or Zoro should be a top in the world puncher because he's always portrait up there with luffy)

Pica is mountain size. And range at the point where your objective is trying to completely cleave through a mountain and not merely hit him doesn't take away from the fact that you still have mountain range. (As in your attack can travel that distance but not keep the same amount of force as it would if you hit the target when it's next to you.)

Luffy having to teleport =/= he has better ATTACK range. Obviously. It means he's a more versatile fighter and can more easily perform his non country size range attacks in more places than Zoro. And shooting people out is not the range of your attack. It is merely an effect of it. Maybe im confused but i thought we where talking about their offenses and the aoe. And not attacks and anything distance related to them. I mean, at that point you could make the argument that Zoro could cut a space ship (enels) and it would fall to the earth or even better float in the universe to infinite distance so his range is galactic.

God giahenricjkenwksnc djensns bull shit... I had my response typed up and.... fuck this phone.... one second....let's see what I remember....

Oh the ammout of damage someone takes may or may not be subjective. What isn't subjective is luffy straight up said if lucci got away from him lucci would kill luffy's entire crew. Luffy straight up said "zoro can't beat lucci" luffy knew nothing of what zoro was up to, he knew nothing of how much damage zoro had taken, all of the aside luffy knew that zoro stood no chance against lucci.

Pica pica pica what did I write about pica...... oh right 1000 worlds I mentioned 1000 worlds about 1000 times.... let me think.

Ok so zoro's best attack he has ever shown in manga is 1000 worlds. Zoro didn't use a flying slash to destroy the "mountain sized" pica he used his strongest move we have seen. When we did see zoro use a flying slash it was pitiful, it didn't even go all the way through pica it split him a little bit. It wasn't even half as devistating as 1000 worlds, which isn't a flying slash.

I don't know what glowing haki means is that an anime thing? I stoped watching the anime around that stupid bounty hunter filler arc with the heat fruit.


Zoro can't slash enel's space ship he said slashing pica from a few hundred meters away would lose way too much power zoro will never reach the moon...... (it shows how far zoro is from mihawk who could easily cut ice from just as far away)

Ok. If you are unable to attack someone who is 200 meters away and your opponent is who has more range? If that was luffy who was attacking pica he would of flew over there without asking for fodder to help him. Luffy has more range then zoro. Make fun of it as much as you want zoro couldn't get to pica where luffy easily could of.

Edited by captain kidd, 14 February 2017 - 02:42 PM.

 
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#231 Chillman

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:41 PM

Yes, my arguement rests on the assumption that zoro shouldn't be better (or much better) then luffy.
That being said we have seen a lot of zoro's limitations. We have seen he is unable to put hodi down we have seen he can't send a flying slash too far, we have seen he is unable to cut birdcage.


Luffy wasn't able to put Hodi down at first, and there was a huge gap between them. I don't think Zoro even try to cut birdcage did he? Or Fuji despite helping, and we don't know if even Luffy could. Birdcage is weird.
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#232 captain kidd

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:46 PM

Luffy wasn't able to put Hodi down at first, and there was a huge gap between them. I don't think Zoro even try to cut birdcage did he? Or Fuji despite helping, and we don't know if even Luffy could. Birdcage is weird.


Zoro's attacks are more deadly then luffy's and luffy fought a much much stronger hodi then zoro did. (Wow an enemy that powered up?!)

Bird cage is weird but luffy showed he is (the only one) capable of breaking DD's threads.

And regardless of luffy of zoro being strong we know some of zoro's limits without him having to go all out.

Oh qn unrelwted note we also know zoro probably couldn't of safed usopp from being crushed by pica. But that doesn't have anything to do with this talk.
 
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#233 TrolonoaZoro

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:57 PM

God giahenricjkenwksnc djensns bull shit... I had my response typed up and.... fuck this phone.... one second....let's see what I remember....

Oh the ammout of damage someone takes may or may not be subjective. What isn't subjective is luffy straight up said if lucci got away from him lucci would kill luffy's entire crew. Luffy straight up said "zoro can't beat lucci" luffy knew nothing of what zoro was up to, he knew nothing of how much damage zoro had taken, all of the aside luffy knew that zoro stood no chance against lucci.

Pica pica pica what did I write about pica...... oh right 1000 worlds I mentioned 1000 worlds about 1000 times.... let me think.

Ok so zoro's best attack he has ever shown in manga is 1000 worlds. Zoro didn't use a flying slash to destroy the "mountain sized" pica he used his strongest move we have seen. When we did see zoro use a flying slash it was pitiful, it didn't even go all the way through pica it split him a little bit. It wasn't even half as devistating as 1000 worlds, which isn't a flying slash.

I don't know what glowing haki means is that an anime thing? I stoped watching the anime around that stupid bounty hunter filler arc with the heat fruit.


Zoro can't slash enel's space ship he said slashing pica from a few hundred meters away would lose way too much power zoro will never reach the moon...... (it shows how far zoro is from mihawk who could easily cut ice from just as far away)

Ok. If you are unable to attack someone who is 200 meters away and your opponent is who has more range? If that was luffy who was attacking pica he would of flew over there without asking for fodder to help him. Luffy has more range then zoro. Make fun of it as much as you want zoro couldn't get to pica where luffy easily could of.

I actually think Lucci could'v beat him. Or at best, because this is Zoro, and I honestly don't know the limits of pre time skip asura. And how much damage he can take. Or whether he would just unlock a new form power to beat lucci. Could be a tie, or he can take the win. 

Luffy's gum gum body was a great help for him in that fight. To the point where Lucci's karate move that ignores his gum gum was a vital part of that fight. Zoro lacks that so every punch from Lucci would do more damage. Of course the issue with that is that Asura doesn't take away Zoro's life force. So it's really complicated to calculate that many details objectively. Both I'm willing to bet on Lucci. 

This conversation starter because you used Lucci and Kaku's physical strength (douriki) to prove Luffy's superiority over Zoro. Remember. I have an issue with that line of logic due to the manga literally telling us otherwise. 

Adding to the idea the fact that Lucci;s shitty match up for Luffy (Lucci being a karate specialist) makes it a non linear echelon as the elements that are relevant to the Luffy v Lucci match up are not the same as the Luffy v Zoro match up. 

 

Luffy's words are not exactly the best evidence considering the argument you just made. I prefer mine. 

 

It's definitely a flying slash. It just wasn't a power of destruction one. Either way, it's a range attack. Unless you think he swords just elongated that much? It's still aoe. And range. Not to mention, the 1080 pound cannon cleaving Pica's upper body. Which is the widest part, is nothing short of impressive. What is even this argument?  

 

Re-read that 1000 world cut. You can see the hardening flowing/emanating. It's manga based. But you can see it in the anime too.

 

I thought we were talking about range of the attacks. And not merely versatility. Although getting help from fodder to traverse is hardly a bad one on Zoro. How many enemies in the world of One Piece will refuge to fight you and run away from you with their town wide steps to kill your friends? In terms of a fight that's hardly the usual scenario. So it's not relevant to a match up where Zoro is duking it out with someone thats not pica. Specially in a hypothetical. If say Sanji v Zoro happes and you make the argument that he goes out of the battlefield, i would count that as automatic win for Zoro.


Edited by TrolonoaZoro, 14 February 2017 - 05:00 PM.

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#234 ddboy102

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 02:12 AM


I don't know what glowing haki means is that an anime thing? I stoped watching the anime around that stupid bounty hunter filler arc with the heat fruit.

 

You aren't missing much.


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#235 captain kidd

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 09:41 AM

I actually think Lucci could'v beat him. Or at best, because this is Zoro, and I honestly don't know the limits of pre time skip asura. And how much damage he can take. Or whether he would just unlock a new form power to beat lucci. Could be a tie, or he can take the win.
Luffy's gum gum body was a great help for him in that fight. To the point where Lucci's karate move that ignores his gum gum was a vital part of that fight. Zoro lacks that so every punch from Lucci would do more damage. Of course the issue with that is that Asura doesn't take away Zoro's life force. So it's really complicated to calculate that many details objectively. Both I'm willing to bet on Lucci.
This conversation starter because you used Lucci and Kaku's physical strength (douriki) to prove Luffy's superiority over Zoro. Remember. I have an issue with that line of logic due to the manga literally telling us otherwise.
Adding to the idea the fact that Lucci;s shitty match up for Luffy (Lucci being a karate specialist) makes it a non linear echelon as the elements that are relevant to the Luffy v Lucci match up are not the same as the Luffy v Zoro match up.

Luffy's words are not exactly the best evidence considering the argument you just made. I prefer mine.

It's definitely a flying slash. It just wasn't a power of destruction one. Either way, it's a range attack. Unless you think he swords just elongated that much? It's still aoe. And range. Not to mention, the 1080 pound cannon cleaving Pica's upper body. Which is the widest part, is nothing short of impressive. What is even this argument?

Re-read that 1000 world cut. You can see the hardening flowing/emanating. It's manga based. But you can see it in the anime too.

I thought we were talking about range of the attacks. And not merely versatility. Although getting help from fodder to traverse is hardly a bad one on Zoro. How many enemies in the world of One Piece will refuge to fight you and run away from you with their town wide steps to kill your friends? In terms of a fight that's hardly the usual scenario. So it's not relevant to a match up where Zoro is duking it out with someone thats not pica. Specially in a hypothetical. If say Sanji v Zoro happes and you make the argument that he goes out of the battlefield, i would count that as automatic win for Zoro.


Ah the match up arguement I knew you would mention that I should of said my piece about that before posting I think in my initial response that was refreshed i did.... darn...

The match up arguement becomes a non factor once lucci uses his leopard form which has nails that can pierce luffy's rubber body, any kicks lucci throws have a slashing element to them. In anything zoro has a match up advantage, where's luffy can only punch steel and hope it breaks zoro has a move which garentees his cut will go through steel. Also zoro can block lucci's attacks where luffy has to dodge all the slashing ones. Maybe zoro can't block them but his steel swords would stand a better chance then luffy's rubber body.
And that isn't to mention the only way luffy was able to keep up with lucci was G2 do you really think zoro is as fast as G2? Maybe he is as strong as G3 but there is nothing to ever indicate zoro is as fast as G2

Come on you know darn well there is a difference between a flying slash and a swordsman cutting something much larger then their blade can cut in the real world. Morgan and Mr. 1 are the biggest examples. Even zoro demonstraited this ability long before he learned how to use a flying slash. Swordsmen can cut objects that are much bigger then their blade....this has happened since chapter 3

That 1080 might of been powerful. But it wasn't powerful enough to cut all the way through pica, we saw the limit of that attack which a lot of fans overlook.

I was talking end results. Zoro may have the ability to hit enemies up to 100 feet away but if kuma can teleport up to an enemy 1 island away and hit them kuma wins that round.
 
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#236 Fulmine

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:26 AM

And Enel-sama steps on Zolo's corpse. That's all people need to know about Marimo's level, seriously


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#237 TrolonoaZoro

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 12:23 PM

Ah the match up arguement I knew you would mention that I should of said my piece about that before posting I think in my initial response that was refreshed i did.... darn...

The match up arguement becomes a non factor once lucci uses his leopard form which has nails that can pierce luffy's rubber body, any kicks lucci throws have a slashing element to them. In anything zoro has a match up advantage, where's luffy can only punch steel and hope it breaks zoro has a move which garentees his cut will go through steel. Also zoro can block lucci's attacks where luffy has to dodge all the slashing ones. Maybe zoro can't block them but his steel swords would stand a better chance then luffy's rubber body.
And that isn't to mention the only way luffy was able to keep up with lucci was G2 do you really think zoro is as fast as G2? Maybe he is as strong as G3 but there is nothing to ever indicate zoro is as fast as G2

Come on you know darn well there is a difference between a flying slash and a swordsman cutting something much larger then their blade can cut in the real world. Morgan and Mr. 1 are the biggest examples. Even zoro demonstraited this ability long before he learned how to use a flying slash. Swordsmen can cut objects that are much bigger then their blade....this has happened since chapter 3

That 1080 might of been powerful. But it wasn't powerful enough to cut all the way through pica, we saw the limit of that attack which a lot of fans overlook.

I was talking end results. Zoro may have the ability to hit enemies up to 100 feet away but if kuma can teleport up to an enemy 1 island away and hit them kuma wins that round.

Just because Lucci has way to trespass Luffy's abilities, doesn't mean that he stops using his fighting style altogether. Same way having haki doesn't give you a free pass to hitting logias. 

 

I guess my point is that they both speak of his range. Regardless if they're different.

 

The limit was piercing through the Torso of a mountain size giant. That's pretty good. TBH. I mean, how many people can take that amount of cut plus force? Imagine that hitting the real body of anyone. Unless they have crazy tankiness. They gon get hit good. 

 

End result? So like the range of a cut? 


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#238 TrolonoaZoro

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 07:12 PM

97f687b32a47575659f8bda17ca4e3fa.jpgBring up the hardship, it's preferred in the path of carnage!


Edited by TrolonoaZoro, 27 April 2017 - 07:13 PM.

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#239 Luxxy

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 06:40 AM

I believe zoro I should in trainiñg. Mihawk didn't train him everything. Why would he? He taught him what to do to get stronger. The rest is up to Zoros will.

#240 TrolonoaZoro

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 11:20 AM

If Zoro trains anymore the series ends in 2/3 slashes at most.


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