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[Miscellaneous] RITS - Random Theories, Ideas and Speculation (Part 10)


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#1401 superfranky

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 11:16 AM

Well that depends on who else is to join the crew. I sincerely hope we dont have the EOS member already. I am hoping for a (strong) logia to join since Croc arc (alabasta). Let alone me having witnessed how amazing logia can be at MF war. Moreover the are several roles that still could to be filled, since they are currently missing, like gardener (earth logia), Ruler/King/leader of an army (like Dragon with RA or Croc with Barock Works), scientist (i so loved CC for being funny, a logia and a scientist, goddamn u Oda why not let him join?, fuc* the children noone except for Tashigi and Nami cared for them anyway...), a philosopher or poet would be nice as well, i would say Robin would like such a crewmate the most (finally someone to converse with for her :D), a rogue/rebel would be fine as well, like someone who wished to topple his corrupt leaders but failed due to the WG/marines stepping in. We also miss an artist/actor/illustrator/sculptor. Moreover we r still missing someone actually bad and ruthless/coldblooded within the crew.
If others join, i could see Jinbei being the 5th or 6th strongest, but if not Oda certainly intends him to go vs an admiral.


Yeah initially post timeskip I thought Franky would get there but that seems unlikely based on his recent fights, Ussop is a contender in my mind to gain the title but not the strength. Honestly I started thinking Weevil might join. I don't think the crew will get many more than one or two members so it really depends who they are

#1402 capu

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 01:23 PM

Yeah initially post timeskip I thought Franky would get there but that seems unlikely based on his recent fights, Ussop is a contender in my mind to gain the title but not the strength. Honestly I started thinking Weevil might join. I don't think the crew will get many more than one or two members so it really depends who they are

Tbh i think more than 1 crewmate is needed, even if said 1 is already admiral lvl.

 

To me there need to be at least 1 more with close to admiral lvl power and 1 right inbetween commander and admiral lvl. Even if we propose that the current M3 (Luffy, Sanji, Zoro) will be way above admiral lvl the marines known to us already have 4 (3 admirals, 1 Fleetadmiral (+Sengoku,+Gorosei)) and then they (in the final war) surely will not only have to deal with the marines alone but also with the WG and all their forces, which is why i have always wanted powerful allies and powerful NN. I never was a fan of weaklings like Shira, Rebecca, Viola or Carrot joining (although i shipped CC, who is pretty weak when compared to admrials, but hey he has access to mass destroying weapons and is logia who wont be defeated by at least 99% of the marines forces).

Therefore imo the SHs only need powerhouses (who might even not be admiral lvl themselfes, but even if only top commander lvl, then we simply need more than 1 or 2, let it better be 3 or 4). BB wont play fair either u can be  sure that he will try  to outmaneuver or outnumber the SHs, better make it harder for him by adding some to ur team. Moreover we can acertain that Sengoku wont sit idly by, and even if he aint at 100% anymore (possibly) he aint a showoff either but rather someone still close enough to admiral lvl so that u cant simply leave him alone, without ahving someone who opposes him. Jinbei is already at his peak of power (imo), and while he is mid shicki lvl to me, he still aint anywhere close to admiral lvl, therefore i cant see him challanging them for good.

Sabo might be a great addition, first he got a powerful logia, he is a pretty good haki user and he is already accustomed to fighting powerhouses (most SHs lack fighting experience vs. high caliber fighters (i.e. Robin, Usoop, Chopper, Franky)). Furthermore he has a pretty good knowledge of how the world works, especially when talking about the darker side of the world, and even with Robin and Jinbei they still need someone who knows things from a deeper point of view/with more insight. 

Then there is the possibilty that even Magellan will have to join the frey on the marines side in order for them to ensure their win. Furthermore i am 100%sure that the marines/WG will ally  with pirates (those the SHs already defeated and those that r the only thing close to being rivals to them) just before the final war.

 

I still hope for 2-3 out of the following to join:

Aokiji (imagine him fighting alongside Jinbei, that would be so OP :aww: ),

CC,

Croc (0% chance, he is simply too epic to join anyone),

Wind or Earth Logia user,

Sabo (Fire/Flame fruit),

Bonney,

Kuma,

Law (if his crew dies, otherwise SHGF member or foe),

Katakuri,

another SN (Urouge?, Hawkins?, Drake?,Apoo? all  little chance i think, but hey they are cool.)

Marco

 

damn it in the past i could have named way more..... shame on me...



#1403 captain kidd

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 03:30 PM

You mean the guy who razed countries to the ground if they spoke ill of his friends? The guy who knew the true history which is probably the most threatening thing you can do for the WG?


That was just someone hyping up ace. We didnt see him do any of that. All we know for sure is alot of pirates hate him because he fought alot of pirates.
 
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#1404 superfranky

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 06:26 PM

Tbh i think more than 1 crewmate is needed, even if said 1 is already admiral lvl.

 

To me there need to be at least 1 more with close to admiral lvl power and 1 right inbetween commander and admiral lvl. Even if we propose that the current M3 (Luffy, Sanji, Zoro) will be way above admiral lvl the marines known to us already have 4 (3 admirals, 1 Fleetadmiral (+Sengoku,+Gorosei)) and then they (in the final war) surely will not only have to deal with the marines alone but also with the WG and all their forces, which is why i have always wanted powerful allies and powerful NN. I never was a fan of weaklings like Shira, Rebecca, Viola or Carrot joining (although i shipped CC, who is pretty weak when compared to admrials, but hey he has access to mass destroying weapons and is logia who wont be defeated by at least 99% of the marines forces).

Therefore imo the SHs only need powerhouses (who might even not be admiral lvl themselfes, but even if only top commander lvl, then we simply need more than 1 or 2, let it better be 3 or 4). BB wont play fair either u can be  sure that he will try  to outmaneuver or outnumber the SHs, better make it harder for him by adding some to ur team. Moreover we can acertain that Sengoku wont sit idly by, and even if he aint at 100% anymore (possibly) he aint a showoff either but rather someone still close enough to admiral lvl so that u cant simply leave him alone, without ahving someone who opposes him. Jinbei is already at his peak of power (imo), and while he is mid shicki lvl to me, he still aint anywhere close to admiral lvl, therefore i cant see him challanging them for good.

Sabo might be a great addition, first he got a powerful logia, he is a pretty good haki user and he is already accustomed to fighting powerhouses (most SHs lack fighting experience vs. high caliber fighters (i.e. Robin, Usoop, Chopper, Franky)). Furthermore he has a pretty good knowledge of how the world works, especially when talking about the darker side of the world, and even with Robin and Jinbei they still need someone who knows things from a deeper point of view/with more insight. 

Then there is the possibilty that even Magellan will have to join the frey on the marines side in order for them to ensure their win. Furthermore i am 100%sure that the marines/WG will ally  with pirates (those the SHs already defeated and those that r the only thing close to being rivals to them) just before the final war.

 

I still hope for 2-3 out of the following to join:

Aokiji (imagine him fighting alongside Jinbei, that would be so OP :aww: ),

CC,

Croc (0% chance, he is simply too epic to join anyone),

Wind or Earth Logia user,

Sabo (Fire/Flame fruit),

Bonney,

Kuma,

Law (if his crew dies, otherwise SHGF member or foe),

Katakuri,

another SN (Urouge?, Hawkins?, Drake?,Apoo? all  little chance i think, but hey they are cool.)

Marco

 

damn it in the past i could have named way more..... shame on me...

I hear you on that currently the Strawhats just aren't powerful enough though I think adding Jimbei. I can't see Kuzan, Sabo, or Kuma ever joining. I was always a big fan of CC joining cause I think him, Franky, and Ussop making weapons would be an assest to the crew, but it doesn't look like that will happen either. I can't see Law becoming a crew member to Luffy or being a SHGF member. Bonney is a possibility though she has never interacted with Luffy so can't really speculate. I can't see Marco joining. I think Urouge is a very good candidate to join either Luffy or Kidd. I really like the idea of Katakuri but can't see it happening due to his allegiance to his siblings. Other than weevil I could see Hancock joining in as a way of protecting her island. I think this leads to either her personally joining Luffy's ship or her sending Margaret to join his ship. I think this leads to the other straw hats learning Haki since Luffy, Sanji, and Zoro have shown no interest in teaching it to them lol. 



#1405 D.Hyuga

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 06:10 AM


Bonney is a possibility though she has never interacted with Luffy so can't really speculate

 

Bonney is Luffy's mother, so no.



#1406 capu

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 01:27 PM

That was just someone hyping up ace. We didnt see him do any of that. All we know for sure is alot of pirates hate him because he fought alot of pirates.

I aint sure but iirc it was Garp who stated that Roger did indeed raze countries to the ground and defeated entire armies, simply for having spoken ill about his friends.

 


I can't see Kuzan, Sabo, or Kuma ever joining.
I dont find Kuzan likely either, i simply enjoy his style and character, its more like wishful thinking to get him as NN. Sabo (if Oda trolled us about his death that is) i could see joining not only because he is a brother to Luffy and somewhat of an elder to him, but also because, unlike Luffy and everyone else among the SHs (except Jinbei, but his character is presented as being too passiv to actively lead an army he aint personally connected with (fishman i see him leading, but i dont see him leading giants/dwarfs fr example)), he has actually lead people already, he knows about command structures and what an army actually needs in order to be maintained. He is someone who knows about the WG and about their secrets as well (weaponry, CPs etc.) and someone like that is needed imo. Jinbei only wanted to bring peace to his people he did not really care about the reality of the ongoings/fractions/deeds within the marines/WG.

Kuma i see dieing in all honesty, but i still would like to get to know about his past and his deal with the WG. I see his death to be the reason Bonney will form an alliance with the SHs (or joining the SHGF), mayhaps even becoming NN though (would personally like NN less than SHGF member).       

 


I was always a big fan of CC joining cause I think him, Franky, and Ussop making weapons would be an assest to the crew, but it doesn't look like that will happen either.
big fan of him as well. Although i think he would be the reason chopper might be able to achieve his dream. Chopper lacks deeper chemical knowledge imo. I also see CC helping Chopper to awaken his fruit and moreover even being able to help Chopper transforming Sulongs positiv skillset on himself (although i actually expect Chopper to do this on his own, i  still dont understand why that buffoon shows little to no interest in Sulong...)

For Franky and Usoop he would be a major asset as well i completely agree. Anywho he is just too funny not to reappear.

 


I can't see Law becoming a crew member to Luffy or being a SHGF member.
Well i could see him both ways, as either a friend or a foe tbh, depending on how Wano goes.

 


Bonney is a possibility though she has never interacted with Luffy so can't really speculate.
True that.

 


I can't see Marco joining.
Why not? WB specifically developed a certain bond to Luffy and made clear that he expects Marco to protect Luffy (i do no longer understand that sentence as being only limited to the battlefield at MF (although i did not understand it as more than that at the time of MF war)). Iirc Marco himself understood it as his main objective to protect Luffy when Akainu was after him. I think he said something like: "letting this boy die would bring shame to the WB pirates." i think someone else (mayhaps fodder ally??) also said something along the lines of: "we need to protect Ace's memory" when talking about Luffy (i could be massively wrong on both things though, MFwar is far too long ago as to remember it thoroughly without rereading....).

 


I think Urouge is a very good candidate to join either Luffy or Kidd.
Well i have huge problems with Urouge being a monk (monks are pretty decents folks after all) (even if a mad one, but thats just marines who claim so, mayhaps for their own good), and him joining someone as ruthless/cruel as Kidd. On the other hand, if the theories of him having a fruit that empowers him whenever he receives blunt damage turn out to be true, he would be an epic opponent for either Luffy or Sanji too. So far i like his presentation and would have zero problems with him being SHGF member.

 


I really like the idea of Katakuri but can't see it happening due to his allegiance to his siblings.
Well it all depends on what BB does now. If he truly goes after BMs poneglyph and Kata would be the only one to survive, with BM being beaten by someone at Wano (Shanks or marines??) i could see him going under the wing of Luffy. Luffy earned his respect after all, and we dont know if anyone else, except his mother ever achieved such a feat. BTW its still possible that BM will ally with the SHs in the future. Sanjis weedding could still be done, if the SHs give her Kaidous poneglyphs and ensure that Lola finally marries a giant or in some other way get the giants to forgive her.

 

 


Other than weevil I could see Hancock joining in as a way of protecting her island.
+same+

 


I think this leads to either her personally joining Luffy's ship or her sending Margaret to join his ship.
I doubt Boa would let anyone else than herself join the crew. I am fine with her being SHGF member, but if she herself joins i aint in opposition either, no worries  :^_^:  

#1407 Nintendocat

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 09:37 PM

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#1408 capu

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 02:30 AM

Well i truly am wondering whether BM or Kaidou became recognised as yonkou for having beaten an alliance out of those 3. If we take Luffy as a comparable individual, who gains his power by having to face powerful opponents, it might be possible for some yonkous to have risen to power just like that, as to say by having beaten powerhouses and thus becoming even more adept in their skills/more powerful.

Since we know only about Captain John (even though its still extremely little what we know) i wonder how Moria got all those shadows. I could see him having stolen their bodies just after Kaidou or BM defeated/killed them.

BTW the sign on the shield from Silver Axe do we know it? I somehow seems familiar with me but i cant currently place it... i'd say its somehow marine connected, although that would make little sense, when thinking about them having been part of the Rocks. But ye it somehow just seems familiar, as if Oda used it already, but i honestly have no clue where to place it. It in parts looks a bit similar to the seagull thing the marines use and if u turn it upside down, it also has a bit of a similarity to drakes headband sign.  



#1409 Abaroxa

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 09:33 AM

Well i truly am wondering whether BM or Kaidou became recognised as yonkou for having beaten an alliance out of those 3. If we take Luffy as a comparable individual, who gains his power by having to face powerful opponents, it might be possible for some yonkous to have risen to power just like that, as to say by having beaten powerhouses and thus becoming even more adept in their skills/more powerful.
Since we know only about Captain John (even though its still extremely little what we know) i wonder how Moria got all those shadows. I could see him having stolen their bodies just after Kaidou or BM defeated/killed them.
BTW the sign on the shield from Silver Axe do we know it? I somehow seems familiar with me but i cant currently place it... i'd say its somehow marine connected, although that would make little sense, when thinking about them having been part of the Rocks. But ye it somehow just seems familiar, as if Oda used it already, but i honestly have no clue where to place it. It in parts looks a bit similar to the seagull thing the marines use and if u turn it upside down, it also has a bit of a similarity to drakes headband sign.


Theres always some big shot until he gets taken down.
Every year there are new super rookies going into to the new world.
Law himself said that you either challenge or you join a winning faction.
All the supernovas did that with the exception of luffy, kidd and urouge. the rest joined a faction or got taken down.
The thing is that after they get taken down, they become just a relic of the past not worth mentioning.
Look at sengoku talking about shiki the gold lion. He barely mentioned him when in the roger era, he was the number 3 pirate. not BM nor kaido.
I'd say BM and kaido got challenged over and over before people decided it was a suicide mission.
As for silver axe, ouchoku and cap.john I'd say they went to wano to take revenge on kaido because of what he did.
If they are dead its because they got killed on battle. the marines would've disposed of the body (I guess...).
Btw of they were so strong why did moria give them such weak shadows. He gave ryuuma a partially strong shadow yet for members of a renown crew he gave them fodder shadows.

#1410 captain kidd

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 11:28 AM

Ok so I saw a list online of the top 10 best logia. The list goes
Snow<smoke<sand<fire<ice<lightning<light<gas<magma<darkness.

So obviously who ever made that list was high.

1st off. Snow made the list over swamp? I have done this before but snow is a horrible fruit. It allows the user to give someone frost bite.... but... OP never expanded on why frost bite is a bad thing. Like if zoro cuts someone's arm off and monet frost bites someone's arm off what is the difference? Why is that a benefit? Does it hit through haki? Who knows.
All I know is that it isnt nearly as cool a power as carbiou's intimate storage. I mean imagine carbiou straight up stealing a fleet of ships. Then in a fight he could drop a fleet of ships on someone's head.
Ok I guess that isnt ceazy impressive but it is better then snow. Snow may be able to make strong barriers but.... well it is weak to fire. That is a shit weakness. Swamp has no weakness.

Ok so let's do it.

10- smoke, the only ability this fruit offers that is unique to the other logia is the user can fly.... oh wait the gas fruit can fly also... and kinda the fire fruit... well at least it has no weakness like snow does.

9- swamp unlimited storage and the ability to drown people on dry land.

8- fire it... it just sucks. I would rank it lower but fire is a naturally dangerous element unlike swamp and smoke.

7- sand- sand storms are better then fire because... well they are solid. Also Crocodile has a ohk move with the ability to drain water from anything. I am sure even kiadou would go down to crocodile's sables if he could land a hit. It is an ability that doesnt really have a defense.

6- darkness- yes this is where darkness belongs. It is the best middle level logia. It is a little bit better then trash. It offers no logia intangiblity. Yes that means the darkness fruit is the ONLY logia you can eat and actually still die in the east blue.... ok maybe the sand fruit user could get stabbed by a wet blade, and the lighting fruit user could get shot by a rubber bullet but those are rare if not inconceivably low probability events. The darkness fruit user could die to literally anyone at any time. A logia is supposed to be easy mode.... think about it a logia would of solid cp9 zero diff.... (lol they had no haki) except the darkness fruit user.
Given enough time, it is legitimately possible for carbiou to kill all of cp9(because they have no haki) not the darkness fruit user. Also its "power" is completely non destructive. Pulling in people is only as dangerous as the person doing the pulling. I really didnt see why bb was supposed to be scary, zoro should of soloed pre quake bb. Black hole is kinda scary but it doesnt look like it did top much damage to the fodder from ID, if it was really powerful we would of see it used against WB. What did we see? Guns lol.

5- gas- so this fruit I want to put lower also but there are so many other fruit that arent as good. The gas fruit at first glance sounds awesome. Then you realize everything special about the fruit was CC. Cc experimented to get his poison gas, he carried around the clackers for gastent, he carried around the hilt for the oxygen sword. Without a smart user the gas fruit user can take away oxygen and shoot a gas burner laser thing. And fly. Those are good abilities, but not amazing. Not like the ones to come.

4/3- ice/magma(tie)- ok there are only 2 things the akainu/aokiji 10 day fight can teach us. 1 is aokiji is significantly better then akainu in every base stat and akainu has the better df and that is how the fight was equal. OR 2 Akainu and aokiji are roughly equal in everything including their fruits. I dont see it. Akainu has better feats and stats and the magma fruit has far better feats then the ice fruit.... but.... they were portrayed as equals.
However, even if you dont think they are equal then ice is 4 and magma is 3 and they have the stats and power to back up those rankings on their own.

2- lightning- hate enel as much as you want. His fruit is the 2nd best logia and one of the top ten best fruit in OP. I know... just like CC alot of what made his fruit special was enel himself. BUT even without the arch maximum, even without the island level coo and ability to hear everyone talking across two islands, the lightning fruit is still amazing. It still has attacks so powerful they were able to one shot zoro twice and 2 shot luffy's equal at the time wiper. Enel's lighting is hot enough so that enel can minapulate metals in a way that it looks like he has some type of gold assimilation fruit, he is able to heat his own weapons and electrify his weapons so that any swordsman he blocks will get electrocuted. (Ok I get that is alot of enel using a staff, but a generic users fists will work the same way) of course a lightning user can restart their own heart and control thunder storms. Nami was scared at BM's ability to make it rain a little....scary "controling the weather" enel's control over a Thunder storm was actually scary.... (since you know it took out zoro, as opposed to BM's that did... nothing..) not to mention only the lightning fruit and light fruit both grant the users speed and even flight through the clouds. Finally while enel does have a weakness. It isn't a factor at all. A random guy on the blue sea is more likely to have sea stone (all logia's weakness) instead of enough rubber to defend against enel. Not to mention enel has a way around that weakness. As we saw enel is able to melt metal with his hands. So.... any stupid moron tries to fight enel with "rubber pants" enel will just melt those pants off then. I am confident saying that because luffy was getting burnt and if luffy can get burnt by enel's powers then that means the only reason his leg wasnt melted off is plot armor.

1- light- this is the best logia. If not the best df period. If OP was naruto or bleach or my hero, this is the fruit the main character would have.(get it? Because those manga give their mc all the power) All logia give amazing defense to their users. Most df give amazing offense. Only light and lightning give speed. And not only does it give speed power and defense. It gives hands down the best in all three categories. Light speed is light speed no comments needed. The defense is better then all other df because unlike any other logia, light has no weakness what so ever. Fire may be weak to water, ice may be weak to fire, darkness is weak to everything. Swamp may be weak to heat also, smoke might be weak to wind. All these logia have potential weaknesses, light should have no weakness, not even a debatable one. And then as far as power goes lasers are in a category of their own. CC the man who is able to destroy islands with bombs saw a laser and wanted it. A laser was able to effortlessly destroy a door sanji deemed impossible to destroy. Light is hot enough to melt metal as we saw in TB. And, even though we only saw it once, light is able to make massive attacks, able to knock down entire.... SA trees (forget what they are called, mangrove?) Attacks of that size are bigger then most we have seen from other logia.
And finally. In one of the most baffling feats in all of OP.... kizaru is also apperently able to take a page out of the green lantern's play book and make solid light objects... which for some reason was a sword to fight rey. So if kizaru really is able to make solid light objects that fixes the only real draw back of the top two logia. Lightning and light lack the ability of a generic production df because their abilities.... have to be moving. Enel can make a giant bird but it has to be moving at you like a bolt of lighting. So if kizaru is able to make walls of light to block attacks like akainu/aokiji can, that fixes the only minor draw back light has. Of course the light user can still dodge like akainu/dogtooth so making solid items to block attacks is not a huge draw back, but I need to be honest.



So that's my list. The most confusing part of that stupid list above was gas and darkness placed so high. Give buggy the darkness fruit and give a twin and anyone with the fruits above darkness in my list would win easily. And that is bad.... this is a logia v logia fight... no one should win it should be a draw because neither side has haki...

Also gas should not be that high based on a single tricky move it has. I do think gas could be an admiral level fruit, but I dont think it stands above the other 3 and lightning.
 
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#1411 capu

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 11:31 AM


Theres always some big shot until he gets taken down.
Every year there are new super rookies going into to the new world.
Well  thing is we know that even the worst gen Rookies where nothing more than playthings compared to the true bigshots.

Law himself said that you either challenge or you join a winning faction.
All the supernovas did that with the exception of luffy, kidd and urouge. the rest joined a faction or got taken down.

Did i miss Bonney joiniing anyone? I mean i like her becoming RA and afterwards SHGF member but did we have any hint she ever was part of a certain fraction (her kingdom not counted)?  


The thing is that after they get taken down, they become just a relic of the past not worth mentioning.
Well if u consider Sengokus words that even Kaidou and BM where somewhat of newbies back when Rocks was a thing i doubt it can be generalised like that.


Look at sengoku talking about shiki the gold lion. He barely mentioned him when in the roger era, he was the number 3 pirate. not BM nor kaido.
Well Sengoku mayhaps did not, but Garp or Roger or WB mentioned them sometime ago i think, that should also count.


I'd say BM and kaido got challenged over and over before people decided it was a suicide mission.
agreed, but not really unexpected. U need to proof ur up to the task to be a yonkou so...


As for silver axe, ouchoku and cap.john I'd say they went to wano to take revenge on kaido because of what he did.
would not necessarily link them to Wano, since Kaidou or BM might have taken them out like 30 years ago already, but thats only speculation, ur idea could be true


Btw of they were so strong why did moria give them such weak shadows.
because he could not get strong shadows, he is relatively weak compared to other powerhouses after all.


He gave ryuuma a partially strong shadow yet for members of a renown crew he gave them fodder shadows.
I would not call preTS Brooks shadow strong in the greater scheme of things considering current power lvls 

#1412 Abaroxa

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:53 AM


AWell thing is we know that even the worst gen Rookies where nothing more than playthings compared to the true bigshots.

BDid i miss Bonney joining anyone? I mean i like her becoming RA and afterwards SHGF member but did we have any hint she ever was part of a certain fraction (her kingdom not counted)?


CWell if u consider Sengokus words that even Kaidou and BM where somewhat of newbies back when Rocks was a thing i doubt it can be generalised like that.


DWell Sengoku mayhaps did not, but Garp or Roger or WB mentioned them sometime ago i think, that should also count.



Ewould not necessarily link them to Wano, since Kaidou or BM might have taken them out like 30 years ago already, but thats only speculation, ur idea could be true


Fbecause he could not get strong shadows, he is relatively weak compared to other powerhouses after all.


GI would not call preTS Brooks shadow strong in the greater scheme of things considering current power lvls

AWe don't know the streak of previous rookies. Kidd was having a good run until he got betrayed. We don't know how many of past rookies got past 1st commander lvl. We know that luffy defeated a 1st commander character and got a 1.5billion bounty. I'm sure there has been multiple in the past that have challenged the yonko alone or in alliances.
Also in the past 10 years there was a new yonko, shanks. What did he do? Probably defeated someone strong we will never know about.

B Bonnie got defeated 3 weeks in the new world. Then she got captured by the marines. She escaped but so far, it seems like no one is aware of her escape.

CBM and kaido are variables here. Both were far from their prime.
We don't know kaidos current age but we know he was an apprentice meaning he probably was very young and wasn't in his prime, at least not physically. He has a zoan and with his fighting style he depends very strongly on his physical attributes.
As for BM, her fruit gets better the longer the user has the fruit. Its a fruit where the more it harvests the more powerful the user gets. The reason BM doesn't have many non-blood relatives in her crew is because she just takes their life span and adds it to her own. I bet she can create another zeus if she feels like it.

D Well if they hadn't mentioned them, we wouldn't even know about them. I don't know, it feels like Oda is leaving breadcrumbs and we aren't following.
Btw shiki was only mentioned around chapters ~550. That was a publicity for the movie strong world.

E Either way. They must have fallen by the hands of kaido or BM. That whole conversation between those two about one owning this and that was very unusual.

F True.
Hope BB takes his fruit and gives it to someone of can use that power to its potential. Perhaps Pizarro..

G Wait. Are you telling me that zombie ryuuma source of power was all just physical attributes.
No haki, no fruit and probably nerfed in sword skills because of brooks shadow...
Then Ryuma was a beast


@captain kidd
gas<swamp<snow<smoke<sand<fire<ice=magma<darkness<lightning<light

pros:
Gas> fly
Smoke> expand your body, fly
swamp> unlimited storage
Sand> dry your body(one hit move) and can impact ecosystems
fire> physical hazard element
ice> can impact ecosystems
magma> can impact ecosystems
dark> halt df powers and unlimited storage
lightning> heat, can cause numbness, burns and provide speed boost
light> speed boost and easily spam ranged dangerous explosive light beams

cons:
Gas> user has to know basic chemistry in a world where some have not seen rubber once
Smoke> expanding the body might work against user
swamp> might be hit from the inside when storing someone strong(??)
Sand> pros only applicable if awakened(??)
fire> if the flame in your tail goes out user dies, awh thats pokemon. Theres no cons
ice> pros only applicable if awakened(??)
magma> pros only applicable if awakened(??)
dark> tangible, might be hit from the inside when storing someone strong(??)
lightning> Theres no cons
light> Theres no cons

#1413 captain kidd

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 09:05 PM

@captain kidd
gas<swamp<snow<smoke<sand<fire<ice=magma<darkness<lightning<light

pros:
Gas> fly
Smoke> expand your body, fly
swamp> unlimited storage
Sand> dry your body(one hit move) and can impact ecosystems
fire> physical hazard element
ice> can impact ecosystems
magma> can impact ecosystems
dark> halt df powers and unlimited storage
lightning> heat, can cause numbness, burns and provide speed boost
light> speed boost and easily spam ranged dangerous explosive light beams

cons:
Gas> user has to know basic chemistry in a world where some have not seen rubber once
Smoke> expanding the body might work against user
swamp> might be hit from the inside when storing someone strong(??)
Sand> pros only applicable if awakened(??)
fire> if the flame in your tail goes out user dies, awh thats pokemon. Theres no cons
ice> pros only applicable if awakened(??)
magma> pros only applicable if awakened(??)
dark> tangible, might be hit from the inside when storing someone strong(??)
lightning> Theres no cons
light> Theres no cons



You would rank gas all the way at the end? At the very very least gas can do all things smoke can do. Gas user can fly and make his body bigger. I know I said everything good about the gas fruit was CC but that doesnt change the fact that the fruit has potential. The smoke fruit has zero potential to go beyond how smoker uses it.

And you would put the darkness fruit all the way up there? It doenst really have unlimited storage. Everything the darkness fruit stores it crushes.
But more importantly the darkness fruit "turning df off" is only so good. If bb was anyone other then BB he would of straight up died to Ace. If BB didnt have commander/emperor/god level durability ace hitting him with flame fist and 2 spears through the chest and fire doll would of killed a normal person.
Not to mention the entire fruit depends on hand to hand combat skills. Pulling someone directly into your fist/sword is only good if the person you are pulling isn't a better fighter then you. Give luffy the darkness fruit. He can pull kiadou into him and he would get knocked out just as easily as he did a few chapters back.
Not to mention sea stone is also a "turn df off" ability and it drains the strength of the user unlike the darkness fruit. Bb turned off wb's fruit and that didnt do anything to him.

Frankly the darkness fruit's ability to turn other df off is only a factor in fights against mid level opponents.
East blue luffy would of had no use for that ability. Most low level opponents dont have df (except buggy and alvida) don kreig kuro arlong 1st alvida morgan. They all would of just laughed at luffy.
Then high level opponents it wouldnt matter at all either, as we have seen most commanders have good enough hand to hand fighting skills without their fruit.

Also you ranked the ice fruit user below Darkness. Dude.
BB "dark vortex"
Aokiji "ice ball" only unlike WB the darkness fruit user would not quake out of ice ball.... ironically bb has the quake fruit so.... well you get the point...
Also pulling the ice fruit user close to your self is suicide. If the ice fruit user forgets he can use ice ball, he can still 1 hit ko the darkness fruit user. It would he a race to see who could touch who first. BB was able to send ace flying with a punch. But a normal darkness fruit user might not be able to do that.

And the same can be said about the magma fruit. It would be suicide to pull someone who can put a mountain sized fist through your face closer to you.
 
captain "Nostradamus" kidd
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#1414 Abaroxa

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 07:44 AM

The black hole technique drags things in like an actually black hole and the way things get crushed led me to just assumed the darkness fruit also had gravity properties.
We never saw BB reach his limit when dragging things in. He always stops because what he wanted has been dragged in.

The gas fruit itself will always depend on the user knowledge. For you to expand you need to know what to add to yourself. CC probably can add self harmful gas.

#1415 capu

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 02:44 AM


Kidd was having a good run until he got betrayed.

We dont really know that. So far he did pretty much nothing. All he did was attack people, way out of his league and then getting his as* kicked. He did not beat a commander, unlike Urouge and Luffy. PreTS all he did was harm civilians, thus fodder, consequently over all he has not a single power feat. Compare that to Luffy who by that time has defeated 3 shicki (4 if u count Buggy), invaded ID, destroyd EL and u see that Kidd NEVER did anything noteworthy. If Oda really cared for him he would have at least let kidd defeat a shicki, some VAs we know about, or another SN by now, but no he still has done nothing on that scale. Fighting yonkou but getting defeated with ez aint much of a feat. Luffy fought 3 admirals as well and got his as* kicked too but at least he has other good deeds done.

 

BTW i dont claim that there is not a single noteworthy pirate/ former rookie in the past. I mean one could very well say that WBs era, with shicki and GR so far is the true worst gen there ever was.

 


We don't know how many of past rookies got past 1st commander lvl. We know that luffy defeated a 1st commander character and got a 1.5billion bounty.

Well we know some. DD was around commander lvl, Mihawk definately is above, Croc might have risen to that lvl by now, Boa is commander lvl most likely as well.

Well the 1.5. billion bounty is inly this high because of the newspaper guy who first off excaggerated a lot and 2ndly hyped Luffy a huge load in the eyes of commonfolks, simply by making his new deed known worldwide, we cant be certain that something on this scale happened often before.

 


I'm sure there has been multiple in the past that have challenged the yonko alone or in alliances.

We at least know some (Croc, Moria) but the fact remains that, just like with Kidd, first off their deeds most likely were not shown in detail like they happened with Luffy at WCI, and 2ndly the both of them started to hide at a certain island without really causing anymore further riot/huge incidents unlike the SHs. They continue to travel the seas and they continue to make huge things happen. I mean just after EL where they took down one of the main 3 bases of the WG they then continued and invaded ID another thing which can only be described as major. Noone we know of has done anything even closely compared to that. Luffy punched a CD, no other rookie before (as far as we know, only one uncertain here seems to be Xebec, he might have done something similar even before the incidents at Gods Valley) ever dared to do such a thing. Even Kidd was simply staying there instead of acting that coward. He wants to be cruel in order to make the world see how rotten the system is, but does not dare to act against its main representatives.

 


Also in the past 10 years there was a new yonko, shanks. What did he do? Probably defeated someone strong we will never know about.

Or he had the actual power of a yonkou for years, but simply not the backup/influence to be viewed as such.

 


Bonnie got defeated 3 weeks in the new world. Then she got captured by the marines. She escaped but so far, it seems like no one is aware of her escape.

Still she did not join anyone as far as we know, which was the initial theme. she got defeated by an entire BB crew and akainu simply took a shackled and defeated Bonney with him. I dont see that as any hint for for being weak. Any SN would have been beaten by BB at that point in time, even most of them allying would not have made it possible for them to evade defeat imo.

She may have been freed/the WG let her go (remember making deals with them is a thing-->shicki (i.e. Kuma), Orochi, Kaidou, BM) after i.e. using her DF on some CDs.

I dont think it is unknown that Bonney escaped, what makes u think it is?

 


BM and kaido are variables here. Both were far from their prime.

WHich is why i said ur initial statement that rookies get defeated by yonkou and then r meaningless afterwards aint true, since following Sengokus words BM and Kaidou who where "newcomers" at God Vallay still became yonkou. 

 


We don't know kaidos current age but we know he was an apprentice meaning he probably was very young and wasn't in his prime, at least not physically. He has a zoan and with his fighting style he depends very strongly on his physical attributes.

Exactly we know that at least Kaidou was somewhat of a noname/rookie back then, therefore him becoming yonkou later on is a clear hint that ur statement (from the post before this one) cant be generalised, as i stated already. Moria, Croc all got defeated and were broken/cried about it for the time being, Kaidou is the real thing he got up and became stronger.      

 


As for BM, her fruit gets better the longer the user has the fruit. Its a fruit where the more it harvests the more powerful the user gets. The reason BM doesn't have many non-blood relatives in her crew is because she just takes their life span and adds it to her own. I bet she can create another zeus if she feels like it.

While u r right that BMs fruit has an even greater advantage the longer / the more often it is used, one still has to have in mind that in generel that applies to all fruits (awakening, different forms (Gs Luffy, Choppers forms, Zoans hybrid, monster form etc)) (well with logia its somewhat different).


Well if they hadn't mentioned them, we wouldn't even know about them. I don't know, it feels like Oda is leaving breadcrumbs and we aren't following.
Btw shiki was only mentioned around chapters ~550. That was a publicity for the movie strong world.

So? Chapter 0 is still canon unlike the movie.

And in chapter 0 it is stated that Shiki was a rival to Roger/WB.


Either way. They must have fallen by the hands of kaido or BM. That whole conversation between those two about one owning this and that was very unusual.

I agree with this. I still wonder what favor BM did for Kaidou though. And why he needed said favor in the first place.

 


Hope BB takes his fruit and gives it to someone of can use that power to its potential. Perhaps Pizarro..

I would be fine with ur option , just as i would be fine with the following: 2.option: Moria joins BB. 3.option Moria escapes by using doppelgaenger then comes to Wano and joins the fray vs Kaidou (becoming SHGF member or even better joining another SN (Kidd, Law (unlikely), Apoo (most likely he gets killed by Kidd), Hawkins)).


Wait. Are you telling me that zombie ryuuma source of power was all just physical attributes.
No haki, no fruit and probably nerfed in sword skills because of brooks shadow...
Then Ryuma was a beast

Yes at least most of it. U have to keep in mind the difference there is in physical strength between preTS SHs and postTS SHs already, then compare it to the huge difference the yonkous power (physical ~) represents vs the current postTS SHs (Kaidou 1shot Wano Luffy, Luffy punched him in G4 , Kaidou felt nothing,  although haki might had been involved, the direction still is clear) power and if u consider the fame Ryuuma had with the fact that he could defeat ANYONE with a single slash (thus he for certain was at least admiral lvl) and u see what difference there is with Ryuumas physical power compared to the physical power of the SHs. Ryumma having been dead for this long, with most of his muscles being gone, still was beastly enough to deal with preTS Zoro, even though  hundreds of years already passed. 


Edited by capu, 13 October 2019 - 02:48 AM.


#1416 Abaroxa

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 10:19 AM


We dont really know that. So far he did pretty much nothing. All he did was attack people, way out of his league and then getting his as* kicked. He did not beat a commander, unlike Urouge and Luffy. PreTS all he did was harm civilians, thus fodder, consequently over all he has not a single power feat. Compare that to Luffy who by that time has defeated 3 shicki (4 if u count Buggy), invaded ID, destroyd EL and u see that Kidd NEVER did anything noteworthy. If Oda really cared for him he would have at least let kidd defeat a shicki, some VAs we know about, or another SN by now, but no he still has done nothing on that scale. Fighting yonkou but getting defeated with ez aint much of a feat. Luffy fought 3 admirals as well and got his as* kicked too but at least he has other good deeds done.

kidd was the only supernova that had a a whole island as a base. He wasn't hiding in a village, or a big town/ city/ kingdom / island ruled by someone else. he had his own island. He had proper members doing scouting on other pirates. He was keeping track of the underworld(just in case). He was pirating old school style.
Yeah, he didn't defeat any commander lvl character but his doing it old school without having to submit himself to be a yonko b#tch like the rest of the supernovas.
He did what Luffy would have failed to accomplish in the NW. survive for 2 long years.

 

Well we know some. DD was around commander lvl, Mihawk definately is above, Croc might have risen to that lvl by now, Boa is commander lvl most likely as well.
Well the 1.5. billion bounty is inly this high because of the newspaper guy who first off excaggerated a lot and 2ndly hyped Luffy a huge load in the eyes of commonfolks, simply by making his new deed known worldwide, we cant be certain that something on this scale happened often before.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
 

We at least know some (Croc, Moria) but the fact remains that, just like with Kidd, first off their deeds most likely were not shown in detail like they happened with Luffy at WCI, and 2ndly the both of them started to hide at a certain island without really causing anymore further riot/huge incidents unlike the SHs. They continue to travel the seas and they continue to make huge things happen. I mean just after EL where they took down one of the main 3 bases of the WG they then continued and invaded ID another thing which can only be described as major. Noone we know of has done anything even closely compared to that. Luffy punched a CD, no other rookie before (as far as we know, only one uncertain here seems to be Xebec, he might have done something similar even before the incidents at Gods Valley) ever dared to do such a thing. Even Kidd was simply staying there instead of acting that coward. He wants to be cruel in order to make the world see how rotten the system is, but does not dare to act against its main representatives.

You kind of have a point but there are some things we need to analyse here.
1st. where many are defeated and lose their will, they simply fall into the forgotten part of history or join the yonko.
Both moria and croc decided to take revenge. Moria decided to do what I believe is the best decision for his fruit. That is play the long game. Lets be honest his fruit relies on harvesting and he went on to do that. Obviously he got to overconfident and let himself get defeated by a weaker person. One thing to note here is that just because you are not as present as luffy is, doesn't mean you arent growing. Look at BM. She was active during the rocks era and after that era we only hear GR, WB and shiki. Not her and thats because she played the long game of harvesting and allowing her fruit to be used to its maximum potential.
2nd. Croc powers don't rely on years of harvesting and training like moria. What croc did was the opposite. He knew the gap in power between him and the yonko was enormous and so he went after a quick solution which was to get an ancient weapon.
I know it sound like they were losers but they had their agendas. All by themselves, not under the umbrella of a yonko.
Hats why I will continue to defend Kidd. He, a character that at first looked as irrational as luffy, was infact the smartest of all the rookies. He realized that you can't defeat an yonko empire with a small crew. First you build your own empire, then you challenge them.
 

Or he had the actual power of a yonkou for years, but simply not the backup/influence to be viewed as such.

He probably forced people into his crew like all the other yonkos/. As soon as his crew got n members the WG realised he was a real threat
 
 

I dont think it is unknown that Bonney escaped, what makes u think it is?

Akainu actually said he got chills the last time she escaped.
If she has escaped again, would't he be mentioning her a bit more than he has already..
I know any supernova would have been defeated, but as a captain you need to know your weaknesses and know how to access your dangers. In SA, all the supernovas where smart enough to not hit a CD except luffy and look what happened to him. The other SN would have probably done a u turn as sson as they saw BB.
the grandline isn't the sea of the strongest. Its the sea of survival. If roger was really the strongest he would have beaten BM and take the poneglyff by force, but he didn't.
 

WHich is why i said ur initial statement that rookies get defeated by yonkou and then r meaningless afterwards aint true, since following Sengokus words BM and Kaidou who where "newcomers" at God Vallay still became yonkou.

You got me in this one.
I suppose it has something to do with your will.
 

Exactly we know that at least Kaidou was somewhat of a noname/rookie back then, therefore him becoming yonkou later on is a clear hint that ur statement (from the post before this one) cant be generalised, as i stated already. Moria, Croc all got defeated and were broken/cried about it for the time being, Kaidou is the real thing he got up and became stronger.

They did not cry.. They went into revenge mode. Their goal stopped being the onepiece and became kill the yonko.
    
 

While u r right that BMs fruit has an even greater advantage the longer / the more often it is used, one still has to have in mind that in generel that applies to all fruits (awakening, different forms (Gs Luffy, Choppers forms, Zoans hybrid, monster form etc)) (well with logia its somewhat different).

But at least the other fruits already have something to offer. BM without harvesting is simply using her lifespan recklessly.
 

So? Chapter 0 is still canon unlike the movie.
And in chapter 0 it is stated that Shiki was a rival to Roger/WB.

true :mellow: 
 

I would be fine with ur option , just as i would be fine with the following: 2.option: Moria joins BB. 3.option Moria escapes by using doppelgaenger then comes to Wano and joins the fray vs Kaidou (becoming SHGF member or even better joining another SN (Kidd, Law (unlikely), Apoo (most likely he gets killed by Kidd), Hawkins)).

I simply don't like moria design. He has the worst design in the whole op-verse.



#1417 capu

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 02:50 PM


kidd was the only supernova that had a a whole island as a base. He wasn't hiding in a village, or a big town/ city/ kingdom / island ruled by someone else.
Which means nothing if the island is either abandoned or inhabited by fodder.


He had proper members doing scouting on other pirates.

What r u refering to? That he was able to read the newspapers?


He was keeping track of the underworld(just in case).

Well pretty much everyone who aint a SH did so. Law definately did, (Hawkins?) Urouge knew about the Shs even back in SA.


He was pirating old school style.
That i agree with, although it says nothing about his powerlvl.


Yeah, he didn't defeat any commander lvl character but his doing it old school without having to submit himself to be a yonko b#tch like the rest of the supernovas.
So far only 2 out of 11 really submitted. Hawkins and Apoo. Drake did it in order to actually keep track of Kaidou/overcome Kaidou, since he is a marine after all. Bege did it to beat BM. So u dont really have a good point here.


He did what Luffy would have failed to accomplish in the NW. survive for 2 long years
How so? Luffy did survive MF with opposing 3 admials at once, if there is anyone who actually has a positiv score when it comes to beating powerful opponents its the SHs. All other SNs (sans Urouge) we know of only suffered defeat when faced with a powerful opponent.

 


The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
While that is true, it does not really matter, since we know numerous news in the newspapers and none of them, which aint connected to the SHs, EVER implied something on this scale to have happened before (except MF war, which turned out to be Luffy connected!). There are things called causality/hints/plausibility after all.

 


You kind of have a point but there are some things we need to analyse here.
1st. where many are defeated and lose their will, they simply fall into the forgotten part of history or join the yonko.
This aint really an arguenment for ur side but rather a sign of weakness for me.


Both moria and croc decided to take revenge. Moria decided to do what I believe is the best decision for his fruit.
While it is true that Moria might have been wise to power himself up, it still was to little avail, he was beaten by preTS SHs, and we definately know what little chance postTS Shs (Luffy 1 hit koed by Kaidou) had vs a yonkou, thus Moria did suck immensly at doing what he intended to do, especially when one considers how much time he had in order to prepare. Compare Morias prep time to the 2years TS and u understand how epicly he sucked at bettering himself.


Lets be honest his fruit relies on harvesting and he went on to do that.
Still while being a smart move i still stick with him sucking at it.


Obviously he got to overconfident and let himself get defeated by a weaker person. One thing to note here is that just because you are not as present as luffy is, doesn't mean you arent growing. Look at BM. She was active during the rocks era and after that era we only hear GR, WB and shiki. Not her and thats because she played the long game of harvesting and allowing her fruit to be used to its maximum potential.
Kaidou could have been as arrogant as they come yet Luffy still would have 0 chance. Thus Moria just did a real bad job, especially after to got to know about the NW beforehand. I dont neglect the growing part when it comes to a generel statement,  neither do i neglect that Kidd has not become more powerful than he was preTS, but still the margin is simply too small by far!

U  really underrate BM. She was 8 when she already 1hitted giants and she did not have a DF back then. She aint a yonkou simply because she got a powerful DF but because her overall power is simply insane!

While her powers grow with her DF it still does not mean that she is powerless without it, she tanked Jinbei and G4 Luffy like it was nothing after all.

We here about those 3 because they stood atop everyone else, not because the others  where meaningless!

U severely underrate the yonkou my friend!

 


2nd. Croc powers don't rely on years of harvesting and training like moria.
In generel all DFs do, some more some less, but still all r depandant on the skill of the user, this has been directly stated by the manga itself, several times in fact.

 


What croc did was the opposite. He knew the gap in power between him and the yonko was enormous and so he went after a quick solution which was to get an ancient weapon.
Again a smart way to try to overcome others (just in a different sort of application when compared to Moria), yet again badly performed.


I know it sound like they were losers but they had their agendas. All by themselves, not under the umbrella of a yonko.
Agendas mean nothing if u are universes away from achiving them. Robin never had any intention to  actually give Croc what he wanted. Moria never could have beaten Kaidou with the fodder he collected. Kidd cant achieve his dream if he does not dare to oppose the WG/marines directly either, therefore it does not matter what an agenda is, as long as u do not even get the tiniest of bits (on a scale that can be measured) towards it! 


Hats why I will continue to defend Kidd.
I wont stop u.


He, a character that at first looked as irrational as luffy, was infact the smartest of all the rookies. He realized that you can't defeat an yonko empire with a small crew. First you build your own empire, then you challenge them.
He definately aint the dumbest thats for sure, although it was Killer and not Kidd who realised that allies/empowering are/is needed! And i definately dont believe him to be the smartest, there is 0 chance he is! Hawkins and Law, mayhaps Drake are better at being smart for certain than Kidd is (killer is a variable i cant currently judge/ place accordingly).

 


He probably forced people into his crew like all the other yonkos/. As soon as his crew got n members the WG realised he was a real threat
Possible, but i doubt it since Shanks is the actual definition of a peacemain (how was it called/spelled again?), which Luffy kind of wishes to become as well.

 


Akainu actually said he got chills the last time she escaped.
If she has escaped again, would't he be mentioning her a bit more than he has already..
Well whenever he was shown, there simply were such big news that i dont find it strange that he did not talk about Bonny right away, but yes she needs to be explained furhter/more thoroughly from now on.

 


I know any supernova would have been defeated, but as a captain you need to know your weaknesses and know how to access your dangers. In SA, all the supernovas where smart enough to not hit a CD except luffy and look what happened to him. The other SN would have probably done a u turn as sson as they saw BB.
Luffy does not know his weaknesses...neither does he care about ANY danger.

because they r FAR smarter than Luffy, who in generel is a goddamn retard, none of the other SNs, whom we have been presented is so far!

 


the grandline isn't the sea of the strongest. Its the sea of survival. If roger was really the strongest he would have beaten BM and take the poneglyff by force, but he didn't.
we dont know when roger met BM with the poneglpyh thing, could still be way before God valley incident. But u have a point.

Still u dont need to fight anyone in order to achieve certain goals, sometimes the easier/better way is simply to deceive someone, or give them something that is valuable enough for them (seduce/entangle), so that they aint careful enough anymore.

 


I suppose it has something to do with your will.
Yes u need to have a certain amount of "backbone" to stand up even after the biggest of defeats, which is what the SHs excel at.

 


They did not cry.. They went into revenge mode. Their goal stopped being the onepiece and became kill the yonko.
and they still where worlds apart from achieving it, even after all the time they had (Croc remains one of my favs though).

 


I simply don't like moria design. He has the worst design in the whole op-verse.
i aint really a design kind of guy in op  :shrug: but i still like moria, i simply consider him weak. Croc is far stronger than Moria imo.

#1418 Abaroxa

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:45 AM


What r u referring to? That he was able to read the newspapers?

 
Oh.. he had a sniper on Apoo. I thought it was a spy. Big error on my behalf

Well pretty much everyone who aint a SH did so. Law definately did, (Hawkins?) Urouge knew about the Shs even back in SA.

I'm not talking about knowing the general mainstream information that its handled by morgans. I'm talking about real underground sh#t. Like knowing what weapons of mass destruction are your enemies buying and what types of poison will be used against you.

That i agree with, although it says nothing about his powerlvl.

It says more about him than the others. The others are willing to do anything to get ahead while kidd will probably tell you that as soon as the alliance reaches its goal they will fight. He won't betray you, at least you don't have to worry about a knife in your back.
 

So far only 2 out of 11 really submitted. Hawkins and Apoo. Drake did it in order to actually keep track of Kaidou/overcome Kaidou, since he is a marine after all. Bege did it to beat BM. So u dont really have a good point here.

How so? Luffy did survive MF with opposing 3 admials at once, if there is anyone who actually has a positiv score when it comes to beating powerful opponents its the SHs. All other SNs (sans Urouge) we know of only suffered defeat when faced with a powerful opponent.

My point is that in this game of thrones we had 9 captains fighting for the throne... 8, Drake doesn't count because he's a marine.
All the others seem to be the real contenders of this generation.
The theme of the op-verse is strong wills. Because of that I see those with strong drives the ones that are ahead.
I know its smart and everything but in my eyes Apoo, Hawkings and Bege are out of the race for the throne. All because of the way as they fought to get there. In fact, in my eyes Luffy shouldn't even bother facing them. Sanji and Zoro should do the job.
As for the remaining 3: Kidd, Law and Bonnie. We'll see what they can do.

I will never fully compare the events that occurred in SA and MF as true Luffy feats.
The WB pirates looked liked garbage collectors because all they did was carry luffy the trash. Not to disrespect Luffy, but he had no place on that war.
Luffy beating Croc was thanks to unexpected haki spasms. Croc did't see it coming.
Luffy beating Moria. 1. Moria is weak and doesn't use his fruit to ots full potential 2.Moria underestimated Luffy and allowed a weaker person to beat him.
Again, this is not me trashing Luffy rep but he beating the shikibukais was the same as when he lost to CC. They were too full of themselves.
Wow,.. I guess I am disrespecting Luffy because I don't know how the SHs escaped EL with 5 or 6 VA there. Luffy shouldn't be able to defeat any of them pre-ts
 
 

 

While that is true, it does not really matter, since we know numerous news in the newspapers and none of them, which aint connected to the SHs, EVER implied something on this scale to have happened before (except MF war, which turned out to be Luffy connected!). There are things called causality/hints/plausibility after all.

Things that have happened to the SH might have happened to others. Twisted and altered news.
But ultimately you are kind of right because as I was re-reading SA Shakki actually says that luffy is the craziest of them.
Even the other SN stop on their tracks to see if Luffy really is what the news portray him to be. Guess what? Luffys worse. They all had to flee the archipelago :D
 
 

While it is true that Moria might have been wise to power himself up, it still was to little avail, he was beaten by preTS SHs, and we definately know what little chance postTS Shs (Luffy 1 hit koed by Kaidou) had vs a yonkou, thus Moria did suck immensely at doing what he intended to do, especially when one considers how much time he had in order to prepare. Compare Morias prep time to the 2years TS and u understand how epicly he sucked at bettering himself.

True.
Yet I value more people working alone or allied with others pirates than scheming and pretending to be a member of yonko in order to get to the top. That's what rats do.
 

 

Kaidou could have been as arrogant as they come yet Luffy still would have 0 chance. Thus Moria just did a real bad job, especially after to got to know about the NW beforehand. I dont neglect the growing part when it comes to a general statement,  neither do i neglect that Kidd has not become more powerful than he was preTS, but still the margin is simply too small by far!
U  really underrate BM. She was 8 when she already 1hitted giants and she did not have a DF back then. She aint a yonkou simply because she got a powerful DF but because her overall power is simply insane!
While her powers grow with her DF it still does not mean that she is powerless without it, she tanked Jinbei and G4 Luffy like it was nothing after all.
We here about those 3 because they stood atop everyone else, not because the others  where meaningless!
U severely underrate the yonkou my friend!

I don't.
But I know she had to produce her own crew since she apparently trusts no one/.
During her years inactive she was certainly always pregnant. That probably made her a bit weaker.
I even mentioned how Roger didn't ever face her. He preferred to steal the poneglyff when she was not paying attention than fighter 1on1.
Yonko can be as strong as you want but facing 3 admirals without the support of atleast 1 1st commander lvl crewmate will be your death.

 
 

Agendas mean nothing if u are universes away from achiving them. Robin never had any intention to  actually give Croc what he wanted. Moria never could have beaten Kaidou with the fodder he collected. Kidd cant achieve his dream if he does not dare to oppose the WG/marines directly either, therefore it does not matter what an agenda is, as long as u do not even get the tiniest of bits (on a scale that can be measured) towards it!

I'll give oyu this one.
But the truth is that croc isn't done yet. Moria, maybe but not croc.
The same goes with DD. Oda keeps showing him in ID for some reason.
 
 
 

He definately aint the dumbest thats for sure, although it was Killer and not Kidd who realised that allies/empowering are/is needed! And I definitely dont believe him to be the smartest, there is 0 chance he is! Hawkins and Law, mayhaps Drake are better at being smart for certain than Kidd is (killer is a variable i cant currently judge/ place accordingly).

Luffy does not know his weaknesses...neither does he care about ANY danger.
because they r FAR smarter than Luffy, who in generel is a goddamn retard, none of the other SNs, whom we have been presented is so far!

This two paragraphs actually go together. Crew members are better to protect your weaknesses.
Every member luffy picked was in order to assure his path to PK is a success. He actually stopped looking for strong members after zoro. In fact, one can argue that every bad decision Luffy made was because his crew wan't there to point him in the right direction.
Kidd and Killer are a nice duo.  One is wild and the other is calm. I like it.
I also like how when the heart pirates fought a pacifista law was swapping them around like chess pieces. It made me realize they had a teamwork as good as the SH/.
 
 
 

Yes u need to have a certain amount of "backbone" to stand up even after the biggest of defeats, which is what the SHs excel at.

This.
You should support kidd a bit more after writting that.
Hawkings didn't even try to fight kaido.




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